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View Full Version : Would you buy a gun from Ben Cannon?


artherd
11-16-2007, 7:56 PM
Do my market research for me :)

I've been kicking around the idea of obtaining my own FFL for a long time now, wondering what kind of support I would see? My vision is for an FFL with upscale decor, nice waiting area, TOP quality arms, EDUCATED staff that know CA law cold, and outstanding customer service? Prices would be comprable to market, you will not pay a premium.

Eventually weekly classes on use of force, training, etc. as well as sponsored shooting events are a possibility.

Might start selling Cigars too, save the ATF guys a few stops. :cool2:

It would help me tremendously to know the following:

Would you partake?

Would you drive a little further out of your way? (if so how far?)

Where are you located?

moulton
11-16-2007, 8:09 PM
I would buy there for sure..... imagine that, a knowlegable gun dealer in the northbay :cool: you ought to look into the old Northbay firearms shop (montana hawk)

BTW im in Sonoma Count

thmpr
11-16-2007, 8:10 PM
Anytime Ben!!! Go for it........................

Kestryll
11-16-2007, 8:13 PM
Ben I have to take issue with the language in your poll.






I'm afraid 'Hell Yes!' is just not strong enough! :D

sierratangofoxtrotunion
11-16-2007, 8:13 PM
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

artherd
11-16-2007, 8:19 PM
Ben I have to take issue with the language in your poll.
I'm afraid 'Hell Yes!' is just not strong enough! :D

I love you guys! :D

jdberger
11-16-2007, 8:22 PM
But will you have a satellite store in Milpitas?

:)

Sam Hainn
11-16-2007, 8:23 PM
I'm voting yes, but it would be unlikely. I'm in So-cal. Making the trip would depend on rarity/price/can I make 1 trip where I buy it at a show in So-cal and pick it up in your Nor-cal store, or vice-versa? :)

dfletcher
11-16-2007, 8:30 PM
Do my market research for me :)

I've been kicking around the idea of obtaining my own FFL for a long time now, wondering what kind of support I would see? My vision is for an FFL with upscale decor, nice waiting area, TOP quality arms, EDUCATED staff that know CA law cold, and outstanding customer service? Prices would be comprable to market, you will not pay a premium.

Eventually weekly classes on use of force, training, etc. as well as sponsored shooting events are a possibility.

Might start selling Cigars too, save the ATF guys a few stops. :cool2:

It would help me tremendously to know the following:

Would you partake?

Would you drive a little further out of your way? (if so how far?)

Where are you located?

Don't put the Partagas too close to the powder. :eek:

Of course a place like that would be great and I'd be more than happy to pay a few bucks more for quality service and digs. But I'll ask the question a few others must be considering - how do you plan on paying above market wages for those superior salesmen and rent and upkeep without charging a premium?

Put another way - for a nice place, great selection and great service, why not charge a premium?

Wyatt
11-16-2007, 8:35 PM
Cigars?
Firearms?
I'd drive a bit to get what I need, a little further to find what I can't find elsewhere.

C.G.
11-16-2007, 8:38 PM
I put down "who's Ben Cannon?":rofl2:
Seriously, yes I would if it were close enough (no more than 60 miles from me, due to driving time and cost of gas).

fairfaxjim
11-16-2007, 8:40 PM
Oh yeah! I'm in Marin, and drive to Fremont, San Jose, and where ever, so closer to home (and nicer) is way mo bettah!

thmpr
11-16-2007, 8:41 PM
I put down "who's Ben Cannon?":rofl2:
Seriously, yes I would if it were close enough (no more than 60 miles from me, due to driving time and cost of gas).

Car pool....:)

I can drive...

C.G.
11-16-2007, 8:44 PM
Car pool....:)

I can drive...

I appreciate it.:) There is still the time factor, however, which is actually more important to me, the cost of fuel is secondary.

tenpercentfirearms
11-16-2007, 9:10 PM
I voted no because I already have a good FFL dealer close to home. :43:

Seriously, don't do it. Not because of the competetion, but I know what it takes to be a gun dealer. It is not worth your time unless you are willing to go all out and quit your other job. Trust me, you can't just do it part time. People expect you to take care of them and you will want to be a good gun guy, so you will spend all of your time and energy on it and it will take over all of your spare time. If you already feel busy, just don't do it.

I am in too far, but there are many days I think about selling it all and enjoying my afternoons at home playing video games, Geocaching, or just relaxing. Hell, cleaing up the house might even be an option.

1911_Mitch
11-16-2007, 9:22 PM
I'm game, and I'm local.
I'll even offer my 20+ years of firearms expertise to help it along.
If you get serious, let me know if you want some help.

double_action
11-16-2007, 9:25 PM
With a name like Cannon . . . of course.

ar15barrels
11-16-2007, 9:28 PM
Put another way - for a nice place, great selection and great service, why not charge a premium?

Because most people are cheap bastards.
They will come in your shop, fondle your goods, waste your time asking questions and then buy from the lowest price internet seller through a transfer dealer.

And I'm actually telling it like it is, NOT trying to be a pessimist.

CavTrooper
11-16-2007, 9:50 PM
Because most people are cheap bastards.
They will come in your shop, fondle your goods, waste your time asking questions and then buy from the lowest price internet seller through a transfer dealer.

And I'm actually telling it like it is, NOT trying to be a pessimist.

As well they should! Thats capatilism at its finest! If a dealer isnt quality enough to convice a guy that buying from him is WORTH the few extra bucks hed save buying on the net, then maybe the dealer needs to rethink his buisness model.
Customers look for three main things, quality product, good prices and excellent service. If a dealer has two out of three, he will win over the online retailers everytime.

bwiese
11-16-2007, 9:57 PM
Haha, Ben...

"Cannon's Cannons"... with window sticker,
"Warning: these premises protected by
Smith & Wesson, Barrett, Michel & Davis"

If yo go forward, I also think you need to purchase blackrazor's first ZM4 lowers, whatever JW Harrott got back, throw in your JP CTR and set up a little 'shrine'.

artherd
11-16-2007, 10:06 PM
Put another way - for a nice place, great selection and great service, why not charge a premium?

Cause I want some customers! ;) All else being equal, I will always buy from the best kept and best support. Classic example is the Cheveron up the street. It's bathrooms and pavement are very clean, modern and well lit. It's prices are comparable to everything else in town. I buy there almost all the time.

Wes; I hear you loud and clear, a major reason I haven't done it long ago.

Bill: you know there will be some special pieces/shrines, I think blackrazor wants to hang onto his first ZM4s, but nothing prohibits him allowing me to exhibit them on a compliant loan; at least until we open our so-cal store :D

CRTguns
11-16-2007, 10:08 PM
[QUOTE=artherd;838651]Do my market research for me :)

I've been kicking around the idea of obtaining my own FFL for a long time now, wondering what kind of support I would see? My vision is for an FFL with upscale decor, nice waiting area, TOP quality arms, EDUCATED staff that know CA law cold, and outstanding customer service? Prices would be comprable to market, you will not pay a premium.
QUOTE]
Sounds great- you;d be the fikrst to actualy pull that off.

I've been there- Plans are fun to make- and you mean well, but you will inevitably piss some aholes off- even when yer right, and they're wrong- you are still wrong. There are folks out there that honestly believe that you, as the shop owner, owe them $$$$$ in the form of guns and ammo.

So, best wishes. Really.

My thoughts too... don't plan to retire from that job- the practice of selling guns in CA (as ffl, shop, etc...), will, within a decade be illegal. Mark my words.

artherd
11-16-2007, 10:22 PM
I've been there- Plans are fun to make- and you mean well, but you will inevitably piss some aholes off- even when yer right, and they're wrong- you are still wrong. There are folks out there that honestly believe that you, as the shop owner, owe them $$$$$ in the form of guns and ammo.

I absolutely got a taste of this in the group buys. Fortunately, these kind of people are in the 1% minority, and really don't matter in the end. That said, I'll call ya in 10 years :)

ar15barrels
11-16-2007, 11:23 PM
Fortunately, these kind of people are in the 1% minority, and really don't matter in the end.

Yet they make the most noise on internet forums, so they really DO matter to your bottom line.

Addax
11-17-2007, 12:29 AM
Nice to see that someone else is working towards the same goal.

We have contacted ATF this week regarding the application, and I have consulted with some folks already here in CA and out of state to help my FFL application process along.

Lucky for us we are in 2 totally different parts of the state or we would be competing with each other. :chris:

I hope it works out for you up there. :D

If I am ever in your neck of the woods, and you have your shop set up, I will stop by and say hello.

Good Luck,

Addax

Do my market research for me :)

I've been kicking around the idea of obtaining my own FFL for a long time now, wondering what kind of support I would see? My vision is for an FFL with upscale decor, nice waiting area, TOP quality arms, EDUCATED staff that know CA law cold, and outstanding customer service? Prices would be comprable to market, you will not pay a premium.

Eventually weekly classes on use of force, training, etc. as well as sponsored shooting events are a possibility.

Might start selling Cigars too, save the ATF guys a few stops. :cool2:

It would help me tremendously to know the following:

Would you partake?

Would you drive a little further out of your way? (if so how far?)

Where are you located?

chickenfried
11-17-2007, 12:35 AM
Don't hate the player hate the game

I'd visit if it was within 40min of SF.

artherd
11-17-2007, 12:38 AM
Addax, good luck to you and your efforts, I'd like to extend the same invitation!

Addax
11-17-2007, 12:53 AM
Addax, good luck to you and your efforts, I'd like to extend the same invitation!

Anytime Ben,

I would like to meet up one day... Maybe a shoot up north and one down south one of these days in the near future..

When we both get things set up, lets talk.

Best Regards,
Chris
Addax Inc.
ADX Tactical

savasyn
11-17-2007, 1:13 AM
Addax, where would you be setting up if everything works out? I'd love another shop around here(South Bay/Westside, LA).

C.G.
11-17-2007, 1:27 AM
Because most people are cheap bastards.
They will come in your shop, fondle your goods, waste your time asking questions and then buy from the lowest price internet seller through a transfer dealer.

And I'm actually telling it like it is, NOT trying to be a pessimist.

How is that different from any other business?:D
Had a bid not long ago, for $2,600. Total bill was about 3,000. Charged the guy $2,630, received a check for $2,600. The estimate specified that it was less tax.

Addax
11-17-2007, 1:31 AM
Addax, where would you be setting up if everything works out? I'd love another shop around here(South Bay/Westside, LA).

PM sent..

C.G.
11-17-2007, 1:37 AM
As well they should! Thats capatilism at its finest! If a dealer isnt quality enough to convice a guy that buying from him is WORTH the few extra bucks hed save buying on the net, then maybe the dealer needs to rethink his buisness model.
Customers look for three main things, quality product, good prices and excellent service. If a dealer has two out of three, he will win over the online retailers everytime.

I agree with Randall, a lot of people are just cheap bastards, they only care about the bottom line. (But they will happily sue you if it doesn't come up to their expensive aspirations).

Addax
11-17-2007, 2:02 AM
Because most people are cheap bastards.
They will come in your shop, fondle your goods, waste your time asking questions and then buy from the lowest price internet seller through a transfer dealer.

And I'm actually telling it like it is, NOT trying to be a pessimist.

You have a good point.

There are always going to be people who do this.

The trick is to set up a shop where you build a unique niche where people will not mind spending that extra few $$ because it will mean that they have a special store that takes care of them, good customer service and a comfortable and clean place to hang out is worth a few extra $$ for many people.

Yet if there are those who want to buy an AR on line and have it transfered in, then I would want to be that transfer dealer, since that customer might need accessories, ammo, or maybe some service work..

It sounds like Ben is going to set up a nice clean shop where customers are people and not a number, and I plan to do the same exact thing with my future shop.

It is allot of hard work, it takes allot of $$ and time to set up a shop, get your ffl and to buy and stock inventory, so my hat goes off to all of the dealers who have done it and to those like Ben who are working towards opening a niche firearms shop.

artherd
11-17-2007, 2:22 AM
OK, who are the 15 who voted "Who is Ben Cannon" and how did you graduate elementary school? ;)

tenpercentfirearms
11-17-2007, 4:40 AM
Great customer service will beat out the Internet crowd. That is how I manage to run a pretty successful gun shop out of Taft. I just had two guys drive over to Taft on their way back from some far off trip back east to Fresno. They bought 5 long guns total and got to handle all of my RRA uppers and play with the goodies. There is a reason guys drive well out of their way to come to my hole in the wall shop.

However, they came in at 4:50, I close at 5:00, and they left at 6:10. You seriously need to ask how much your time is worth because you are going to spend a lot of it doing what you have to do with customers.

As far as gun shops competeting goes, there are plenty of customers to go around. I learned early on to be nice to your competetors and just not worry about it. There is plenty of business to go around.

draconianruler
11-17-2007, 4:47 AM
Go for it! The more educated FFL's the better. Hopefully you won't be too far out of the bay area.

383green
11-17-2007, 8:10 AM
I voted "Hell, yes" on general principle, but I'm in SO Cal and I don't see myself driving up north to visit your shop.

As I walk into Starbucks for my daily fix, I often contemplate that if they sold gasoline and ammo, I'd rarely need to shop anywhere else. If you had a So Cal store near my home that sold guns and iced lattes, you could count on at least $25 revenue a week from me. Hmm, maybe more... even though my C&R FFL exempts my from handgun-a-month, I should still cooperate with the spirit of that law by buying a handgun every month. ;)

rkt88edmo
11-17-2007, 8:44 AM
I would for sure come to your shop and buy at least one firearm. How northbay are we talking about?

WokMaster1
11-17-2007, 9:04 AM
Put it next to Cyress & I'll be there in a heartbeat. We can arrange for them to handle the "beverage" part. Getting a full liquor license is a Biatch nowadays. Forget about it if guns & tobacco are involved. Hell even the A in ATF is not on talking tems with T & F. Go figure. Then of course you'll have to deal with the ever fabulous ABC.

stator
11-17-2007, 9:26 AM
Do my market research for me :)

Where are you located?

Telling the truth here- I voted no, but it is a conditional no based upon not as much on the outcome of the Milpitas GB, but when the information comes out.

What I have been told by a DOJ representative is basically you rolled, and Gene is trying to save the day (hence his purchase of a few GB OLLs for standing) but the odds do not look favorable from my perspective.

To be fair, my interpretation is that you gave an inch, but the DOJ took a mile (based upon Randy's decision). So, we will see what the outcome turns out once full disclosure is made. I could be wrong, though, and do hope so.

The bummer about all of this is the OLLs I did receive are mostly the crappy ones (Fulton - and I never seen such loose tolerances in a lower before including ASA), while the good ones were seized. Sure wish it was the other way around.

Scatch Maroo
11-17-2007, 9:43 AM
What I have been told by a DOJ representative is basically you rolled, and Gene is trying to save the day (hence his purchase of a few GB OLLs for standing) but the odds do not look favorable from my perspective.


Whenever I hear, "The DOJ said" I think, "Maybe Georce Lucas better grab a pen & paper 'cause one **** of a good fantasy is about to come out."

For those who don't remember me, I promise: I'm not completely full of it :) :

Let me tell you: *I'm* the one who saw how much money Ben Cannon risked on these receivers (more than the average salary in CA) and the suggestion that what a DOJ clerk (who's met an employee of the CADOJ that HASN'T lied yet?) might carry weight against Ben Cannon and his actions is an insult to a philanthropist and great friend to our community.

You don't have to trust a single word Ben Cannon says, but if that's the case, you sure as Hell can't start making potentially libelous statements based on what an employee of the DOJ says.

California's agricultural industry is single-handedly fertizlied by the CADOJ and all of the crap they produce.

Scatch Maroo

Rob454
11-17-2007, 9:56 AM
I would even pay a little more to have a knowledgeable guy sell me a pistol or rifle than someone who is just looking for a sale and is unscrupulous. As for driving out of my way let me put it to you this way. I once took my wife all the way to Santa barbara just so we could eat at Andersons pea soup cause the one on the way to san diego was closed down.
Rob

artherd
11-17-2007, 10:16 AM
Stator, I cannot comment on much, but I can tell you that you have been lied to by DOJ. What a surprise.

PS: how much have you gone out of your own pocket for a group of people you frankly owe nothing? Remember, all I did was take names, and if I am willing to stand up to DOJ like that being only peripherally involved, imagine what I will do when you're actually buying from me?

Hope to see you in the store, you owe me a drink when it's all said and done.

What I have been told by a DOJ representative is basically you rolled, and Gene is trying to save the day (hence his purchase of a few GB OLLs for standing) but the odds do not look favorable from my perspective.

artherd
11-17-2007, 10:18 AM
I would even pay a little more to have a knowledgeable guy sell me a pistol or rifle than someone who is just looking for a sale and is unscrupulous. As for driving out of my way let me put it to you this way. I once took my wife all the way to Santa barbara just so we could eat at Andersons pea soup cause the one on the way to san diego was closed down.
Rob
Hi Rob, I once drove 200 miles out of my way with a group of friends to visit a town called "Shafter." Just cause it's called "Shafter" :D

JHC
11-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Ben, I'd buy from you, my first OLL came through you before the Milpitas mess happened, we all knew we might lose our money on the gamble of getting our lowers before they "added them to the list" and can't believe there are still people who are stil trying to blame you for DOJs misdeeds. Get your FFL, open up your shop, the $$$ will follow

Solidmch
11-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Cigars?
Firearms?
I'd drive a bit to get what I need, a little further to find what I can't find elsewhere.

put a Bar next door and Ill live in the parking lot:cheers2:

ar15barrels
11-17-2007, 4:51 PM
AWESOME pic! That is what freedom looks like kids!

AWESOME pic! That is what freedom looks like kids!

That's the slowest double-tap I have ever seen.
6:25 between shots. :eek:

RRangel
11-17-2007, 5:10 PM
But of course, Ben.

Alright, who voted no?

:rolleyes:

anotherone
11-17-2007, 6:20 PM
But of course, Ben.

Alright, who voted no?

:rolleyes:

I want to know how there can be 40 people who don't know who Ben Cannon is.

JHC
11-17-2007, 7:23 PM
They are all the newbs that happened along recently, they've probably never even seen the pic of him in his tux with his JP

dfletcher
11-17-2007, 8:10 PM
I've been there only once, but the layout of the new Badger Johns in Sacramento seems to me to have great potential and a model for a nice store. Again, I'm going only on physical layout, don't know anything about the sales crew. They took care of me when I picked up ammo & reloading supplies.

C.G.
11-17-2007, 8:44 PM
They are all the newbs that happened along recently, they've probably never even seen the pic of him in his tux with his JP

For those of you that do not know who Ben Cannon is, read the thread that pretty much started the OLL thing (and see Ben in his tux):
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24777

ldivinag
11-17-2007, 10:51 PM
you forgot to add "lap dances" as part of the services offered...


;) ;) ;)

G17GUY
11-17-2007, 11:07 PM
Will you have a Ron Paul sign in your shop window?

ar15barrels
11-17-2007, 11:20 PM
read the thread that pretty much started the OLL thing (and see Ben in his tux):
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24777

Y'all realize that post was TWO YEARS AGO yesterday? :eek:
So much for updating the list in two weeks...

metalhead357
11-17-2007, 11:46 PM
saddle up!

Let me know when she's a go; I'll make a trip down from further up the North Bay just to buy one....just better not be some leftover Bling from Traders covered in gold finish!!!!!!!!!:p

C.G.
11-18-2007, 1:07 AM
Y'all realize that post was TWO YEARS AGO yesterday? :eek:
So much for updating the list in two weeks...

And do you realize that I had to eat crow when that happened.;)
I thought Ben was full of it till he came up with the that particular DOJ letter. The crow tasted good in that instance.:)

ar15barrels
11-18-2007, 7:37 AM
And do you realize that I had to eat crow when that happened.;)

Just add ketchup.

hi_desert
11-18-2007, 8:40 AM
Voted hell yes, hope this materializes, and if you happen to have a Baer TRS on opening day ...

:Ivan:

metalhead357
11-18-2007, 10:29 AM
I want to know how there can be 40 people who don't know who Ben Cannon is.

I put hell yes! but my guess is that it would encompass a fair amout of those who's lowers are still sitting in deep freeze; as Ben is simply more accessable to pick on than the DOJ...... purely a guess on my part but oft times I guess well.

But I also agree with the other post? How in the heck can you NOT know who Ben is??????????

C.G.
11-18-2007, 4:25 PM
Just add ketchup.

Jalapenos are better, sometimes being humbled twice is good for the soul.

artherd
11-19-2007, 12:42 AM
The crow tasted good in that instance.:)

I gotta say, as a result of the entire OLL thing I got to shake C.G.'s hand; one of many very nice 'side-effects' of the entire process ended up being the great people I was fortunate enough to meet! ;)

artherd
11-19-2007, 12:47 AM
I want to know how there can be 40 people who don't know who Ben Cannon is.

Haha! It's not like my full name isn't in my signature...




Wait, it's exactly like that.

pasvorn
11-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Ben,

If it is close enough, I'll stop by at least twice a week.

You plan to have free coffee, correct? :D

I voted Palo Alto, Menlo Park area...

Bizcuits
11-19-2007, 12:01 PM
Your to far away, so the answer is no. However if you were closer. Yeis

I live in Sacramento

If you were closer and carried what I wanted, or didn't have insane online purchase charges, you'd see a purchase about once every 2-3 months.

burl broderick
11-19-2007, 12:32 PM
High end guns & cigars in the same store ? !

Sorry. No way.










Unless you also sell rare Scotches.

Please locate somewhere close to SF & good luck.
BTW - I am one of the people who is willing to pay a little more for the
convenience of a local physical store with a friendly, intelligent sales staff.

shinigami
11-19-2007, 8:09 PM
I like cigars and guns so that would be a definite YESSS!!!