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DHiggmo
11-15-2007, 10:02 AM
The new sniper rifle is nice but I hope they retain the M24's. Here is the video

http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/20071026_rc_m110sniperrifle

Here is the new shot gun attachment.

http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/20071027_rc_m26modularshot

viras
11-15-2007, 10:04 AM
The links don't work.

"That page has gone AWOL!

404 Error: File not found
It appears that the page you requested cannot be located at this time.

Please check to make sure that everything in the URL was spelled correctly. Otherwise, use the site search above to find the information you need."

DHiggmo
11-15-2007, 10:04 AM
Try better links

http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/20071026_rc_m110sniperrifle


http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/20071027_rc_m26modularshot

Prc329
11-15-2007, 10:10 AM
I saw an episode of American Rifleman where they detailed this rifle.

savasyn
11-15-2007, 10:50 AM
Wow, that thing is QUIET when suppressed! Doesn't that dramatically slow the bullet down and thus reduce useful range, though?

ETA: That M4/M26 combo looks badazz too. Looks like we are getting close to the Pulse rifles from Aliens :)
Is it me, or was it a little odd when the guy giving the presentation about the M26 reached down and put his hand in front of the barrels. Hopefully they cleared the weapons first!

CSDGuy
11-15-2007, 10:56 AM
If you're shooting a suppressed rifle, you're probably going to be so close-in that it's not going to matter one whit about losing effective range. On the other hand, if you're NOT slowing the bullet down, allowing it to remain supersonic, you'll still have the bullet crack, but the report from the muzzle will be less. Does it have the same zero suppressed and unsuppressed?

rksimple
11-15-2007, 11:06 AM
If you're shooting a suppressed rifle, you're probably going to be so close-in that it's not going to matter one whit about losing effective range. On the other hand, if you're NOT slowing the bullet down, allowing it to remain supersonic, you'll still have the bullet crack, but the report from the muzzle will be less. Does it have the same zero suppressed and unsuppressed?

Some rifles have the same POI suppressed and unsuppressed, some don't. The shift isn't very much though...around 2-4 moa. The bullets velocity is not being altered appreciably and still makes a sonic crack. The noise, however, is pretty directionless. That is why its so effective.

Prc329
11-15-2007, 11:06 AM
In the vid it did not look like the guy altered his zero. Then again he was only shooting steel and not for groups so if it changed his zero a couple of inches in his range he was shooting it may not matter.

Max-the-Silent
11-15-2007, 11:16 AM
Wow, that thing is QUIET when suppressed! Doesn't that dramatically slow the bullet down and thus reduce useful range, though?

ETA: That M4/M26 combo looks badazz too. Looks like we are getting close to the Pulse rifles from Aliens :)
Is it me, or was it a little odd when the guy giving the presentation about the M26 reached down and put his hand in front of the barrels. Hopefully they cleared the weapons first!

Unless a specific can uses a "wipe" type design (which no modern rifle caliber can does) velocity will actually increase.

EricCartmann
11-15-2007, 11:22 AM
Since when did a semi auto scoped and silenced AR-10 type rifle become new?

DHiggmo
11-15-2007, 11:26 AM
With new configuration and designation M110;)

ARRRR-15
11-15-2007, 11:33 AM
That video didn't work very well for me.

Here's one I found on youtube, but with less quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhfCBRSIAk

EricCartmann
11-15-2007, 11:34 AM
There are a lot of benifits to a supressed weapon, and for a sniper, a semi auto suppressed weapon is a must. But in general you lose:
- your weapons becomes less lethal
- your weapon becomes less accurate
- lotta carbon blowback in your face (your face will be like a charcoal when you are done shooting)
- makes your weapon slightly heavier

Now there are suppressors where you do not really lose accuracy or lethality, but these are usually very very heavy.



From HKPro http://www.hkpro.com/MP2000.htm

How is this currently addressed?
For the purposes of our discussion, we're going to call a silencer a mechanism to attenuate muzzle blast only. A suppressor is a mechanism to attenuate muzzle blast and slow the bullet to subsonic speeds.

Some firearms (such as the MP2000) have mechanisms to silence the weapon action, typically turning them into manual repeaters (you have to manually draw the bolt back after each shot).

There are a variety of approaches to decreasing muzzle velocity, and they all have different side effects. A disadvantage to all suppressed weapons is that you get sucky penetration and wounding potential.

Subsonic ammunition
Less powder means less velocity. Advantages: you can operate with only a silencer. Disadvantages: if your weapon can also handle regular ammo, you need to carry (and source) both types.

Ring sound suppressor
The ring sound suppressor has a series of baffles and rings that physically manhandles the bullet, slowing it down by friction. The problem is, after a certain number of bullets, the rings wear out and the bullet is no longer slowed. Present-day examples include the MAC-10 and MAC-11 sound suppressors. Advantages: the thing weighs a lot, and actually improves SMG handling characteristics and recoil. You can use regular ammunition. You can remove it. Disadvantages: it weighs a lot, and it wears out. You can, however, replace the inserts.

Gas Sound Suppressor
An alternative (and better) method is to bleed off the propellant gases before they've accelerated the bullet to supersonic speeds. This is typically done by drilling holes in the barrel and having a long suppressor that covers the holes. Present-day examples are the H&K MP5SD series of SMGs. Advantages: Weighs a lot, and therefore improves SMG handling and recoil. Doesn't wear out. Disadvantages: It weighs a lot, and you can't remove it. Well, you can, but you'll still get slow bullets but also a burnt hand and lots of noise.

Gas Sound Suppressor revisited
The final solution is used in the (modern-day) HK MP2000. You get two gas settings, (high and low) and a removable suppressor. With regular ammunition in regular firing or subsonic ammo with the suppressor, you use the high pressure setting. The result: a regular SMG, or suppressed firing, respectively. However, you can also use regular ammo, the suppressor, and the low pressure setting. In this case, ports are opened to bleed propellant gases and you get suppressed firing. Awright! Advantages: maximum ammo & situational flexibility, suppressor improves handling. Disadvantages: It still weighs a lot.

Jeffy
11-15-2007, 11:34 AM
Since when did a semi auto scoped and silenced AR-10 type rifle become new?


Not since the MK11 Mod 0. :D

hybridatsun350
11-15-2007, 11:36 AM
Looks like a pretty awesome weapon. Not really anything new, but cool none the less! The shotgun attachment had an odd way of cycling the action, but I guess it works pretty darn well! :)

DIG
11-15-2007, 11:44 AM
more info;
http://www.knightarmco.com/sr_25.html

AKman
11-15-2007, 11:47 AM
I like the "Stoner Rifle" stamped on the lower receiver.

Prc329
11-15-2007, 11:49 AM
Damn it, Damn it, Damn it. Gotta order a POF 308 lower and have Randall build me a 16" upper to make myself a carbine like the one in the link.

Damn you Knights Armament and your cool looking weapons.

Lon Moer
11-15-2007, 11:56 AM
Since when did a semi auto scoped and silenced AR-10 type rifle become new?
Since it became the new S.A.S.S.. ;)

Toolbox X
11-15-2007, 12:11 PM
You guys really need to increase your knowledge about supressors.

Some supressors, like the one of the HK MP5SD, are designed to take a standard 9mm round and slow it down to subsonic speed so it won't have the sonic boom crack when fired.

Most supressors, especially for rifle calibers, do not have much or any impact on bullet volocity, or accuracy. They don't blow anything back in your face. They just remove most of the explosion sound the round makes when fired, and leave you with the crack the bullet makes when it breaks the sound barrier.

They are very cool and very fun.

If you want the quiet you see in the movies you need to use subsonic ammo. That is the most fun in my humble opinion.

When I was in the Air Force my really good friend was a Class 3 dealer, so I had a chance to play with some full autos and supressors. Good times.

Learn more here:
http://www.silencertests.com/
http://www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/

rksimple
11-15-2007, 12:36 PM
You guys really need to increase your knowledge about supressors.

Some supressors, like the one of the HK MP5SD, are designed to take a standard 9mm round and slow it down to subsonic speed so it won't have the sonic boom crack when fired.

Most supressors, especially for rifle calibers, do not have much or any impact on bullet volocity, or accuracy. They don't blow anything back in your face. They just remove most of the explosion sound the round makes when fired, and leave you with the crack the bullet makes when it breaks the sound barrier.

They are very cool and very fun.

If you want the quiet you see in the movies you need to use subsonic ammo. That is the most fun in my humble opinion.

When I was in the Air Force my really good friend was a Class 3 dealer, so I had a chance to play with some full autos and supressors. Good times.

Learn more here:
http://www.silencertests.com/
http://www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/

Not all of us, just some.:D

Prc329
11-15-2007, 12:40 PM
Screw you guys :)

rksimple
11-15-2007, 1:05 PM
I wasn't referring to you Nayt.:D You can see at whom is post was directed.

ar15barrels
11-15-2007, 1:08 PM
Damn it, Damn it, Damn it. Gotta order a POF 308 lower and have Randall build me a 16" upper to make myself a carbine like the one in the link.

When you bring over that sunshade and rings, I might have my POF 308 about finished.
A box arrived from DPMS just today.
It ought to have most of what I need to finish my 308 build.

EricCartmann
11-15-2007, 1:30 PM
Well no insult here. I will be the first to admit I don't know the ballistics behind suppressors. :p No personal agenda here.

Only thing I know about a suppressor is that I want one. I talked to this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=socgmULGVOA

and he told me he had a lot of carbon blowback in his face with the that particuliar one. Also I don't like the idea of turning my rifle into a bolt action rifle.

When I am ready to buy one I will make sure to research further. Until then I have a bazillion other things to buy that are more important to me :D

And... thanks for those links.

Prc329
11-15-2007, 1:33 PM
Aar15barrels I gotta find one last sheet of the manual for the glass (you think a $900 scope would come with a real manual and not a print out) so I may just drop them in the mail. I'll let you know this weekend. I would love to see that bad boy though.

Prc329
11-15-2007, 1:36 PM
I wasn't referring to you Nayt.:D You can see at whom is post was directed.

I must rephrase that. Screw you guys that get to play with suppressors :D

Silencer
11-18-2007, 8:09 AM
There are a lot of benifits to a supressed weapon, and for a sniper, a semi auto suppressed weapon is a must. But in general you lose:
- your weapons becomes less lethal
- your weapon becomes less accurate
- lotta carbon blowback in your face (your face will be like a charcoal when you are done shooting)
- makes your weapon slightly heavier

Now there are suppressors where you do not really lose accuracy or lethality, but these are usually very very heavy.



From HKPro http://www.hkpro.com/MP2000.htm

I noticed it says 'banned' under his user name, but I'm going to make this post thinking it's only a joke.

Silencers are awesome items. I'll tell you right now I've had a working relationship with them, and not just 'using' them, either.

Here goes...

There are "negative" and "positive" effects to adding a silencer to a firearm. The negatives are;

1. The increase in blowback will cause more fouling to lodge inside more internals of the firearm. So, you need to clean the firearm more often.

2. The increase in blowback may cause unburnt powder to escape out the ejection port and it could get into the shooters eyes. So, shooting goggles or glasses are a must.

3. The silencer traps heat, causing the silencer, barrel and the rest of the firearm to get a lot hotter. This build up of heat will wear out the parts quicker.

4. The point of impact will ALWAYS change when a silencer is added. When a round goes off, there is ALWAYS barrel movement (mostly up and down, but it includes all directions). Barrel length determines when the bullet leaves during this movement. Increasing the barrel length means the bullet leaves at a different time of barrel movement. Also, the mass of the suppressor will alter the harmonics present in a barrel when a shot is fired. Fortunately, the suppressed zero is usually repeatable. This cannot be avoided. Tandem aiming devices or a device which can calculate two points of impact will be necessary if the weapon is to be used both with and without the suppressor attached.

5. Firearms with a silencer will have a higher cyclic rate. Any automatic weapon with a suppressor attached will have an increased rate of fire due to the fact that a suppressor is designed to contain propellant gases. This has the effect of increasing pressure within the weapon's operating system, so increasing rate of fire. Some types of operation (particularly blowback operations) are more sensitive to this effect than others.

6. Reduced bullet velocity. A bad silencer design will increase the blowback pressure too much, increasing the time when the bolt opens, causing escaping gases to go through the ejection port prematurely which will decrease bullet velocity. But, this can easily be avoided by designing a silencer with a large enough "can" (first "stage" of a silencer usually called the "expansion chamber") volume.



The positives are;


1. Increased accuracy (except for different point of impact). The bullet leaves the silencer without any propellant gasses surrounding it, thus eliminating/reducing yaw, nutation, precession, etc.

2. Increase in bullet velocity. The gas propelling the bullet, though to a lesser extent, is still increasing the speed of the bullet as it travels down the silencer. A silencer, as a standard design, will always increase the speed of a bullet. The term related to increased bullet speed is called "freebore boost."


3. Reduced noise. (Duh) It saves a shooter hearing (even if ear protection is used)

4. Reduced recoil. Silencers make great compensators. That means, less muzzle flip and felt recoil which will allow the shooter to shoot quicker and more accurately with followup shots. It's also more comfortable to shoot.

5. Muzzle flash is eliminated, allowing the shooter to be "hidden" from anybody trying to find his location.



Legal Ownership


It's legal for regular citizens to purchase and use silencers (Class 3 Item). You just need to pay the taxes on it, and notify the BATFE with serial information and get approval to use it. However, some states have outlawed them for regular citizens.

The following material explains what steps you must do in order to legally purchase a silencer from one particular vendor who sell silencers.

1. You must be 21 years of age or older and legally able to qualify for the purchase of a regular handgun (meaning no felonies, violent misdemeanors, dishonorable discharges, etc.)

2. Pay us for the product, payment must be in full.

3. Get two 2"x2" passport photographs taken. Attach one to the reverse side of each of the two copies of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATFE) Form 4. These photos typically cost $5 to $10.

4. Complete a small section on the reverse side of the BATFE Form 4 that declares why you wish to possess the item. Most folks say "Collector of firearms".

5. Take the two copies of the Form 4, with pictures attached and your section completed to your local law enforcement agency (city police or county sheriff). Also take the two FBI Form FD-258 fingerprint cards we will give you. Ask the agency to officially take your fingerprints. This will usually cost $10 to $15. Also ask to have the chief of the agency complete his/her section of the reverse side of the Form 4. This merely attests that you are not wanted locally and that the official knows of no law which will be broken if you are approved by the government.

6. Bring us the two copies of the Form 4 and both completed fingerprint cards. We will complete the front of the forms. We then get a money order made out to the BATFE ($5 for an "Any Other Weapon" or $200 for a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, silencer or machine gun). We will then put the two copies of the completed Form 4's, the two completed fingerprint cards and the money order in an envelope and immediately send it to the BATFE office in Chicago, IL.

7. The BATFE will first remove the money order and examine the paperwork for completeness. Assuming the paperwork is complete (it will be, or we will not mail it in), it will be assigned to an agent, who will have a nationwide FBI background check performed on you. Once you pass this (all legal folks over 21 pass it), the BATFE will mail us back a certified copy of one of the Form 4's we sent them. On this copy will be a stamp that looks like a postage stamp. This is a Federal tax stamp indicating the transfer tax is paid.

8. When we receive this Form 4 back with a stamp on it (about 90 days after we mail it in), we will call you and have you come by the shop on SW 221st in Hillsboro, complete a BATFE Form 4473 and give you the product along with the Form 4. You should immediately make several copies of the Form 4 and carry one with you at all times you have the product. Be sure to put the original in a safe place.

Once you have legal possession of the Class 3/Title 2 item you may not take the item across state lines unless you notify the BATFE in writing before doing so. We have these forms available for a small fee. You are not asking for their approval but, instead, merely letting them know you are taking a Class 3/Title 2 item across state line(s) and when you will depart and return.

You may not loan this Class 3/Title 2 item to anyone! You may not store this item at a friend's home who has access to it. This is a restricted distribution item. To possess it requires (at the very least) an extensive background check. You are obligated by law (and common sense) to prevent unqualified people from gaining access to it. You may let others use the item if they remain in your physical presence. If you decide to sell the item you must bring the item to us (or another Class 3 dealer) and the buyer to legally effect the transfer. The buyer then has to go through all the steps described and pay the required transfer tax, plus a $50 fee to us to handle the paperwork, etc.

BlackReef
11-18-2007, 1:13 PM
ANYWAYS....Anybody know where I can get a fake can clone like on the new AR-10 Army Sniper Rifle?

BlackReef
11-18-2007, 1:59 PM
...

ar15barrels
11-18-2007, 4:00 PM
Just stuff a sock in your crotch and it'll be just as effective.

:rofl2:

Until she takes his pants off and is dissapointed on the real size of his package...

RideIcon
11-18-2007, 8:30 PM
I want an AR10 now

m24armorer
11-18-2007, 9:21 PM
Silencer has no clue.....

ar15barrels
11-18-2007, 9:43 PM
Silencer has no clue.....

I'm pretty sure his big "write up" was copied off some website.
Notice the last sentence?

The buyer then has to go through all the steps described and pay the required transfer tax, plus a $50 fee to us to handle the paperwork, etc.

rksimple
11-19-2007, 6:12 AM
Silencer has no clue.....

I'm always suspicious of those that call a suppressor a "silencer."

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 6:48 AM
Well, silencer really is the proper term. The feds have been calling them that from 1934 till today. The Brits call them moderators.

rksimple
11-19-2007, 6:58 AM
Well, silencer really is the proper term. The feds have been calling them that from 1934 till today. The Brits call them moderators.

I don't think anyone now who's "in the know" calls them silencers. Haven't heard that word from numerous guys that I shoot with that run them.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 7:41 AM
From silencertalk:

I mostly use silencer because that is what the inventor named it. If I sense that the person I am talking to has been reached by the people who think they are smart for using the term suppressor, then I sometimes switch to that to keep from it turning into a distraction.


The comment is from RSilvers at AAC

DHiggmo
11-19-2007, 7:57 AM
Hay m24armorer, I thought this thread would smoke you out of the wood-work :D

Silencer
11-19-2007, 8:20 AM
Silencer has no clue.....

Really? How so?

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 8:26 AM
The comment is from RSilvers at AAC

Was RSilvers officially hired by AAC now?
I thought he just sold Freddy a design.

rksimple
11-19-2007, 8:28 AM
From silencertalk:

I mostly use silencer because that is what the inventor named it. If I sense that the person I am talking to has been reached by the people who think they are smart for using the term suppressor, then I sometimes switch to that to keep from it turning into a distraction.


The comment is from RSilvers at AAC

So lemme get this straight...don't know what you're talking about=silencer. Sort of know what you're talking about=suppressor. Really know what you're talking about=silencer. Hard to tell on an internet forum between the first and third categories.

FWIW, YHM lists all theirs as sound suppressors. Yet, right next to that is a category that says "silencer accessories." Why all the confusion? :D

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 8:28 AM
At least Silencer has a cool avatar.
It reminds me of a guy in Santa Monica that delivers food for all the restaurants that don't have their own delivery drivers.
Any SM local would know the black van with all the words painted on the side and the leather (pants, jacket and hat) wearing delivery guy.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 8:42 AM
:rofl2:

Silencer
11-19-2007, 8:44 AM
:rofl2:

Going to ignore me now, huh? Figures...

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 8:48 AM
Not really, I was just looking at all my form 3's and 2's not one of them says suppressor. And I wanted to thank you for posting all that NFA transfer info for silencers. Too bad it don't work for most folks in CA.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 8:52 AM
Dave, how is your new stick!

Silencer
11-19-2007, 9:00 AM
Not really, I was just looking at all my form 3's and 2's not one of them says suppressor. And I wanted to thank you for posting all that NFA transfer info for silencers. Too bad it don't work for most folks in CA.

Never said it would work in CA. It's for states that allow private ownership of silencers. Well, some, but not all.

So, I still don't have a clue?

rksimple
11-19-2007, 9:03 AM
Too bad it don't work for most folks in CA.

How much is an 07ffl/class II SOT per year? Isn't it a bunch?

PistolPete75
11-19-2007, 9:05 AM
ya i saw this one youtube last week.

just another ar variant. no big deal except that is a semi for easier follow up shots. i still perfer the good ol' bolt action.

Boomer1961
11-19-2007, 9:10 AM
The Brits call them moderators.

No,

A moderator is the dude that deletes you post because you tilt the other way or he bans you because you hurt his feelings by showing what an idiot he is at his forum!:D

Worse of all it was the auto industry that took Maxim's design and put them on petrol engines and now a days if you took them off your car you would be ticketed.

Similarly the Europeans don't watch as much hollywood gangster movies as our politicians and police so recognize that suppressors are actually a consumer safety item. If you are a professional hunter you could very well be required to have a suppressor on your firearm as a work place safety rule.

Similar logic could be applied to automobiles as we can ban mufflers that way when a get away car pulls up to the bank the whole community will know evil is afoot. Yes ban all mufflers on get away cars I say.


As for all the ego's here saying silencer (that was what the inventor called it and hence forth was known as the Maxim Silencer), no it is a suppressor because I am smart and read internet, no it is a silencer because I read the internet and read a book while in school, no it is a moderator because I read the internet-read two books-one after I graduated junior high-and I surf international websites, no it is a can-never been on a computer-never read a book-but looks like a can/shaped like a can/tastes like a can-must be a can....

.........all I will say is I read the internet law thread with all those internet lawyers that chimed in so I am now an expert on the law, I will say my name for it for all those in California is that it is a........a.....

......."INSTANT FELON MAKER" ...... but will make you allot smarter in the end after going through all the legal system including lots of time in peaceful solitude where you have lots of time to read your third book!:D


Oh, it is also good the the US decided to stop fighting with WWI tactics and upgrade their instant touch weapon to a medium caliber (whoops, yesterdays medium caliber is not todays large caliber) semi-automatic. The soviets did that 70 years ago and now finally the US army is doing so. At least the US army can not be accused of jumping on the latest fad.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 9:11 AM
silencer:

4. The point of impact will ALWAYS change when a silencer is added. When a round goes off, there is ALWAYS barrel movement (mostly up and down, but it includes all directions). Barrel length determines when the bullet leaves during this movement. Increasing the barrel length means the bullet leaves at a different time of barrel movement. Also, the mass of the suppressor will alter the harmonics present in a barrel when a shot is fired. Fortunately, the suppressed zero is usually repeatable. This cannot be avoided. Tandem aiming devices or a device which can calculate two points of impact will be necessary if the weapon is to be used both with and without the suppressor attached.


OPS and I dont agree with you.


rksimple: not a lot of money, 07 ffl and a 500.00 a year tax stamp (reduced rate).

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 9:23 AM
How much is an 07ffl/class II SOT per year? Isn't it a bunch?

I thought it was around $1200 but I'm certainly not sure of that.
I think it varies depending on what you are making.

Silencer
11-19-2007, 9:25 AM
silencer:

4. The point of impact will ALWAYS change when a silencer is added. When a round goes off, there is ALWAYS barrel movement (mostly up and down, but it includes all directions). Barrel length determines when the bullet leaves during this movement. Increasing the barrel length means the bullet leaves at a different time of barrel movement. Also, the mass of the suppressor will alter the harmonics present in a barrel when a shot is fired. Fortunately, the suppressed zero is usually repeatable. This cannot be avoided. Tandem aiming devices or a device which can calculate two points of impact will be necessary if the weapon is to be used both with and without the suppressor attached.


OPS and I dont agree with you.


And why is that?

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 9:28 AM
Try a 12th model and see for yourself.

Silencer
11-19-2007, 9:46 AM
Try a 12th model and see for yourself.

That's not possible for me, but is it for you?

If so, try this. Shoot three five round groups at a target at 500 yards without the silencer on, and then three five round groups with. You should have two different points of impact, according to my experiences.

rksimple
11-19-2007, 9:52 AM
rksimple: not a lot of money, 07 ffl and a 500.00 a year tax stamp (reduced rate).

Thats for cans/suppressors/moderators/silencers, etc. only? Or for FA stuff as well?

Boomer1961
11-19-2007, 9:55 AM
silencer:

4. The point of impact will ALWAYS change when a silencer is added. When a round goes off, there is ALWAYS barrel movement (mostly up and down, but it includes all directions). Barrel length determines when the bullet leaves during this movement. Increasing the barrel length means the bullet leaves at a different time of barrel movement. Also, the mass of the suppressor will alter the harmonics present in a barrel when a shot is fired. Fortunately, the suppressed zero is usually repeatable. This cannot be avoided. Tandem aiming devices or a device which can calculate two points of impact will be necessary if the weapon is to be used both with and without the suppressor attached.


OPS and I don't agree with you.


rksimple: not a lot of money, 07 ffl and a 500.00 a year tax stamp (reduced rate).

=====================================

So when I go to the northern provinces and call snow snow, the Inuit get in an uproar because there is no such thing as "just snow" as that just shows your ignorance and disrespect and to be lesser of a man in their eyes.

=====================================

The Eskimos' Hundred Words for Snow
by Phil James


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

tlapa powder snow
tlacringit snow that is crusted on the surface
kayi drifting snow
tlapat still snow
klin remembered snow
naklin forgotten snow
tlamo snow that falls in large wet flakes
tlatim snow that falls in small flakes
tlaslo snow that falls slowly
tlapinti snow that falls quickly
kripya snow that has melted and refrozen
tliyel snow that has been marked by wolves
tliyelin snow that has been marked by Eskimos
blotla blowing snow
pactla snow that has been packed down
hiryla snow in beards
wa-ter melted snow
tlayinq snow mixed with mud
quinaya snow mixed with Husky ****
quinyaya snow mixed with the **** of a lead dog
slimtla snow that is crusted on top but soft underneath
kriplyana snow that looks blue in the early morning
puntla a mouthful of snow because you fibbed
allatla baked snow
fritla fried snow
gristla deep fried snow
MacTla snow burgers
jatla snow between your fingers or toes, or in groin-folds
dinliltla little balls of snow that cling to Husky fur
sulitlana green snow
mentlana pink snow
tidtla snow used for cleaning
ertla snow used by Eskimo teenagers for exquisite erotic rituals
kriyantli snow bricks
hahatla small packages of snow given as gag gifts
semtla partially melted snow
ontla snow on objects
intla snow that has drifted indoors
shlim slush
warintla snow used to make Eskimo daiquiris
mextla snow used to make Eskimo Margaritas
penstla the idea of snow
mortla snow mounded on dead bodies
ylaipi tomorrow's snow
nylaipin the snows of yesteryear ("neiges d'antan")
pritla our children's snow
nootlin snow that doesn't stick
rotlana quickly accumulating snow
skriniya snow that never reaches the ground
bluwid snow that's shaken down from objects in the wind
tlanid snow that's shaken down and then mixes with sky-falling snow
ever-tla a spirit made from mashed fermented snow, popular among Eskimo men
talini snow angels
priyakli snow that looks like it's falling upward
chiup snow that makes halos
blontla snow that's shaken off in the mudroom
tlalman snow sold to German tourists
tlalam snow sold to American tourists
tlanip snow sold to Japanese tourists
protla snow packed around caribou meat
attla snow that as it falls seems to create nice pictures in the air
sotla snow sparkling with sunlight
tlun snow sparkling with moonlight
astrila snow sparkling with starlight
clim snow sparkling with flashlight or headlight
tlapi summer snow
krikaya snow mixed with breath
ashtla expected snow that's wagered on (depth, size of flakes)
huantla special snow rolled into "snow reefers" and smoked by wild Eskimo youth
tla-na-na snow mixed with the sound of old rock and roll from a portable radio
depptla a small snowball, preserved in Lucite, that had been handled by Johnny Depp
trinkyi first snow of the year
tronkyin last snow of the year
shiya snow at dawn
katiyana night snow
tlinro snow vapor
nyik snow with flakes of widely varying size
ragnitla two snowfalls at once, creating moire patterns
akitla snow falling on water
privtla snow melting in the spring rain
chahatlin snow that makes a sizzling sound as it falls on water
hootlin snow that makes a hissing sound as the individual flakes brush
geltla snow dollars
briktla good building snow
striktla snow that's no good for building
erolinyat snow drifts containing the imprint of crazy lovers
chachat swirling snow that drives you nuts
krotla snow that blinds you
tlarin snow that can be sculpted into the delicate corsages Eskimo girls pin to their whale parkas at prom time
motla snow in the mouth
sotla snow in the south
maxtla snow that hides the whole village
tlayopi snow drifts you fall into and die
truyi avalanche of snow
tlapripta snow that burns your scalp and eyelids
carpitla snow glazed with ice
tla ordinary snow

========================================

Same goes for silencer not affecting ballistics, the over educated smart man knows it does and comes up with the 100 words for snow proving his point.

To me I am not a snow expert so I will just say snow.

For 98% of the calgun members, using a suppressor.......ooops.......I mean moderator.......makes a hill a beans difference....and it won't affect the accuracy of their shooting or maybe increase the accuracy as they stop flinching when the pull the trigger as the boom is allot quieter.

Boomer1961
11-19-2007, 9:55 AM
So since this has turned into a conversation about chaning the light bulb I will add.

============================HOW MANY FORUM MEMBERS DOES IT TAKE TO CHANGE A LIGHT BULB?

One to change the light bulb and to post that it had been changed.

Fourteen to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently.

Seven to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.

Seven more to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs.

Five to flame the spell checkers.

Three to check spelling/grammar flames.

Six to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb".

Another six to condemn those six as a-holes.

Fifteen to claim experience in the lighting industry and give the correct spelling and to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"

Five know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct

Six to email the company's ISP complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy"

Nineteen to post that the group is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb (or light bulb) forum.

Two who demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and light bulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped

Eleven to defend posting to the group saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this group.

Thirty six to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best bulbs, what brand of bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty.

Seven to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs.

One-Hunderd and Fifty Seven who ask where to buy light bulbs wholesale? or where is the best bargain.

Fourty twoo who post links to the best bargains.

Fourteen who argue that the previous poster is working at the light bulb distributor whose link he published saying they had the best deal.

Four to post links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this group which make light bulbs relevant to this group.

Thirteen to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures and add a simple "Me Too".

Five to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy.

Two to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"

Four to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ

Forty-Four to ask what is a "FAQ"

Four to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"

Five to actually call the lighting industry on the phone just so he/she could (be the correct high almighty).

Thirteen to say "do a google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs".

Three to tell a funny story about their show dog and a light bulb.

Ten posters to claim the light bulb failed because of George Bush's policies

Twenty to denounce those 10 and blame the failure on the previous administration

One to say that if you were any [censored] good at all you wouldn't need the freaking light bulb

Three to say that those of you talking about light bulbs aren't working and should get back to work

One to say there's really 7 that are burned out, the gov's lying to us that there's only 1

AND MY FAVORITE

One group lurker to respond to the original post 9 months from now with something unrelated they found at snopes.com and start the sh1t all over again.

Silencer
11-19-2007, 10:14 AM
You have an interesting way of saying things, Boomer61. So do children.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 10:56 AM
That's not possible for me, but is it for you?

Did you see the note in his signature that's attached to EVERY post he makes?
I would have to say that it's possible for him.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 2:31 PM
Gee, ya think.....

My new toy.....

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/m24armorer/Image024.jpg

Tweak338
11-19-2007, 2:51 PM
I'm jealous.. even if it is a P22, its cool.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 2:53 PM
And it does not have a threaded barrel so no AW crap.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 3:00 PM
And it does not have a threaded barrel so no AW crap.

How does the can mount if there are no threads?

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 3:06 PM
It's a sleeve that slides onto the barrel and twist locks onto a .125 locating pin installed on the side of the barrel.

Tweak338
11-19-2007, 3:07 PM
How does the can mount if there are no threads?

some sort of QD mount that has been perm. attached to the barrel?
ETA:
damn, M24 already explaned before my guess..

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 3:10 PM
Next time around I'm going to do a mini 3 lug. The slide had to be opened up for the sleeve on this one.

ar15barrels
11-19-2007, 3:29 PM
Next time around I'm going to do a mini 3 lug. The slide had to be opened up for the sleeve on this one.

There's not a lot of wall thickness there to play with. :D

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 4:20 PM
Not alot but a fair amount.

m24armorer
11-19-2007, 11:46 PM
Gave the P-22 to the wife, I like the laser point and shoot for her.

DHiggmo
11-20-2007, 12:20 AM
Dave, how is your new stick!

It is complete. I sent you photo's, I haven't had time to deal out any punishment on paper yet. I see you have got a new toy, that one's is kind of small for you;). I see why you gave it to your wife:D.

m24armorer
11-20-2007, 12:44 AM
She likes it......

That is all that matters!

DHiggmo
11-20-2007, 1:01 AM
I was just out looking up into the black tonight (checking out M57). It comes in real clear!!

m24armorer
11-20-2007, 1:07 AM
Still at that cheep hotel.....:)

DHiggmo
11-20-2007, 1:16 AM
No I'm home on Vac, I'll be back next week though.

DHiggmo
11-21-2007, 2:37 PM
Sniper competition with some of the old stuff :p

http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/2006sniper/

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 12:14 PM
I don't think anyone now who's "in the know" calls them silencers. Haven't heard that word from numerous guys that I shoot with that run them.

:rofl2: :smartass: Sorry, it was kinda funny :o

Hey John, can you email this picture to me?

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/m24armorer/Image024.jpg

My computer won't show photobucket images anymore because of some new crappy spyware I have :(

deagleowner@gmail.com

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 2:02 PM
Glad to see you here, I was shooting today so I'll send you some pics with it taken down and how it works.

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 2:06 PM
Thanks, I appreciate it :)

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 2:15 PM
Did you finish your lower yet?

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 2:22 PM
I'm having trouble with the milling machine :( The motor crapped out, so we are working on it, while I look for a new one from harbor freight :)

I'm trying to get it done as fast as I can, so it will be done by the time a get the rest of the parts for Chrsitmas. I think I'm going to get the BCM F/A BCG from C4iGrant on Silencer Talk. He is the only person I've found who will ship F/A carriers here. Luckily their legal :) I'm getting a F/A, because I think it would reduce wear on the hammer because of the different ramp it has. I can't wait :D Even though most Harbor Freight motors are made in China :chinese:

What finish would you recommend for the lower?

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 2:35 PM
Josh, let me know your motor specs, I got a stack of spares here if there is one you can use you can have it.

I have been using KG Gunkote in black teflon over a glassbeaded finish.

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 2:50 PM
Thanks a bunch :D
I owe you a lot for everything you've done :)

This is the one we have now that broke:

Horse Power: 2
Volt: 115/230
HZ: 60
Amp: 16/8
Phase: 1
Class: E
KW: 1.5
POLE: 4
RPM: 1720
Heat: 60 C

You can have the Dark Heart files also if you want. One guy from ST is doing a Form 1 on it :D 2 more are doing the Titan :) You can see the newer version on my thread linked in my sig line, pages 13 and 15 I think.

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 2:57 PM
Is there a a NEMA frame ID, I'm not sure about a class E but most of the stuff we have has been converted to a NEMA 56 C face. Who made the mill?

And I'll figure it out for you.

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 2:59 PM
I'll get back to you, just been called for leftovers.

Say Hi! to the family for me.

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 3:11 PM
There's no NEMA frame ID that I found on the mill or the motor, but my dad says the company's name is Rong Fu the motor was made in 1989 :pinch:

Apparently the :chinese: make a lot of milling machines.

My Cambodian neighbor's illegal chickens won't shut up and I got to look up show times for "Hitman" at the local theatre.

The family says Hi! back :)

Thanks,

Josh

ar15barrels
11-23-2007, 4:22 PM
I think I'm going to get the BCM F/A BCG from C4iGrant on Silencer Talk.
He is the only person I've found who will ship F/A carriers here.

I stock LMT F/A bolt carrier groups and I certainly ship within CA as I am also here myself. ;)

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 4:59 PM
I need two anyway :D

I'm going to use the BCM in an SPR, and the LMT in a carbine.

I'll get the LMT from you then ;)

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 8:11 PM
Are you going to drag your sister to another gunshow? You really need to get your CDL. Hi to your dad! And I'll figure a way for you to get a motor for your WTF mill.

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 8:18 PM
If she wants to get another little green pocket knife, then yes. I can get my CDL in February at the earliest, even though I should have had it last February :o I've never even heard of the Fong Dong Long Ching Chong Mill company until today :chinese: Thanks for your help :)

m24armorer
11-23-2007, 8:27 PM
Could be worse, the cum from some young guy soup......

Another Chinese innovation.

paco ramirez
11-23-2007, 8:38 PM
So is the old Chinese sauce called Cream of Sum Yung Gui.

They must have the same ingredients.