View Full Version : Question about receivers and pistols being sold to CA owners

11-14-2007, 7:45 AM
I have a couple of questions regarding the sale of receivers and pistols in California. We are a 07 Manufacturer and I am not familiar with all the laws of California but two of my shooting buddies are members here on Calguns.

First, are there any laws the prevent the sale of this AR15-type receiver in California? It has a the pictogram selectors but also has the full-auto position. The receiver is not cut out for a drop in auto sear nor for a standard M16 sear. It is only cosmetic and does not have the capability to fire automatically (please note that the white and red highlighting is not permament and only applied if requested).


Secondly, is it legal to sell an AK47-type pistol in California if there is NO gas port drilled into the barrel? Additionally, we can tack-weld a barrel nut in place so that no threads are exposed. We make an AK SBR that we can modify into a pistol for California sales if there was interest. Also, do we have to have a magazine permanently attached or can we just not include a magazine? Here is a picture of our AK47 and we can do them in either 5.45mm or 7.62mm. PLEASE NOTE.. this is NOT the weapon we would sell in California. The folding stock would be eliminated and a pistol trunion installed. Also, if a flash hider is not allowed a barrel nut would be tacked on in it's place.


11-14-2007, 8:07 AM
I do not believe the auto markings are illegal but may raise eyebrows and cause the DOJ to confiscate them. If I recall there was a case where a bunch of lowers were taken that had auto markings.

11-14-2007, 8:12 AM
stripped ar lowers are ok. I think spikes sells a similar one with the hk style pictograms. I got the regular one though.

yes, it's legal you must follow- SB 269 (Stats. 2005, ch. 683) (Dutton). you need to put a single shot sled in the ak pistol with a mag lock before shipping. I recommend the poops mag lock. looks a lot cleaner! There are a few locks now but I like the originals like the p50 and poops lock. I can post a pic of both if you need. basically you can weld a 5/10rd mag to not hold a round.

(SB 269) for exempt pistols-basically says- barrels must be at least 6 inches. overall length 10.5.
With the bulgy front sight/gas block combo you can just put a thread protector on it (no welding needed).

OT is the barrel on the bulgy shorter than 12.5? I was thinking of a amd piston and gastube and was thinking the barrel length would be 11.5 vs 12.5 with the bulgy fsb/gb. I want a pistol like the one you have pictured minus the stock and fh.:cool: I'd be interested in one.:D

11-14-2007, 10:00 AM
Do you have a link explaining what a single shot sled is? I have never heard of one of those. BTW, the barrel length is 11.5".

So, if I comply with the above is the gas port hole still within the law or does it have to be left undrilled?


11-14-2007, 11:33 AM
Do you have a link explaining what a single shot sled is? I have never heard of one of those. BTW, the barrel length is 11.5".

So, if I comply with the above is the gas port hole still within the law or does it have to be left undrilled?

Nice, it looks better than the standard version. looks like this cz. I was thinking about a 223 but 762 is always nice.

This is a single shot sled (bobsled for competition).

I haven't see any requirement for the gas port hole for a single shot but maybe there is. If the sled is locked in, it can't fire another round though.

This is what it says.

SB 269 (Stats. 2005, ch. 683) (Dutton)
Exempts from unsafe handgun testing, as specified, single-shot pistols with a barrel length of not less than six inches and an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver and barrel are assembled (PC $ 12133)

11-14-2007, 2:06 PM
Hi Doctor...

I've seen you over on ARFcom NV hometown forum...

Here's the skinny:

(1) The Stoner-patter receiver you depict is a completely legal, off-list receiver.

There has been some handwaving in past regarding the third 'fun' mark (even though merely decorative and not at all indicative of accepting M16 full-auto parts). One of our initial off-list vendors had 12? 20? Superior Arms lowers seized from him by our DOJ idiots. No further grief and Superior Arms sent him 20 more no-fun-marking ones to replace the seized ones, though the FFL hasn't gotten the seized lowers back. This may not be repeated in future, however.

I've recommended against such markings (as well as stupid things like fake silencers) as it's just one more thing to explain in a traffic stop. Nevertheless I believe quite a few folks actually have such lowers now without problems.

(2) Before we address AW-vs-pistol issues, you gotta know some basic pistol law in CA. Most any handgun coming into CA being sold by/thru an FFL - as opposed to an individual moving into CA with one, or transfers betwen California residents - must be on our Roster of Approved Handguns (drop tested, and new entries must have LCIs/mag discos).

The only exemptions to Rostering are in 12133PC, and cover antiques, single-action revolvers w/5+ rounds + 3" min bbl length + 7.5" overall length, and also single-shot pistols w/6+" bbl length + 10.5" overall length. Pistol frames/receivers cannot be imported into CA by FFLs for resale as they aren't - nor can they ever be - tested, functional handguns.

In CA, we're allowed to modify our handguns after purchase into other legal configurations - bbl length, caliber changes, etc. [Obviously stay away from NFA realms like forward pistol grips, etc.; we can't have handguns that shoot shotgun shells either, so no Taurus Judges for us.] There's no law here requiring retention of status after purchase as an exempt single-shot or single-action, nor is there any codification of 'original design intent' of the particular handgun platform. The exempt status only needs to be retained before import, through beginning and end of DROS+10 day wait, and until the microsecond after acquisition/pickup.

For such Kalashnikov pistol to be acquired legitimately here:

the receiver's gotta start out as a pistol receiver, etc. to not run afoul of Fed SBR
laws (i.e, making a rifle a pistol is a no-no). May be good to have it marked 'Pistol'.
Such a gun needs to be clearly rendered into a single-shot pistol. As such, it needs
to have something preventing regular mag use and allow only single-shot status. On ARs
there are single-shot 'sled' mag replacement devices for guys shooting heavy/ultra-long
bullets: these are being used for AR pistol designs. Such a device could be rendered for
the AK platform as a mag replacement entity.
The sled non-magazine should be locked-in with some sort of mag lock device that
requires a tool for its removal.
Such a firearm is now exempt from being a Rostered handgun. It can be shipped to, and
then transferred by, a CA FFL dealer as a 12133PC-exempt single-shot pistol.
Once the owner takes possession of his single-shot pistol, he may modify it himself - of
course, always in conformance with all California laws. He perhaps might choose to either run
it as:

(1) a manually-cycled nonsemiauto pistol w/detachable magazine, or:

(2) run it w/a fixed 10rd magazine using any of various appropriate mag lock kits ('Bullet Button",
etc.) compliant with 11 CCR 5469(a) (requires use of a tool to remove magazine).

02-25-2009, 9:47 PM
Nice stuff Bill