PDA

View Full Version : Question about receiving a completed lower w/BB already installed


viras
11-13-2007, 10:08 AM
Hello,

I've gotten a reputable company to agree to send me a completed lower receiver w/pistolgrip & collapsible stock attached, with a bullet button already installed. They are fully aware that I'm in CA.

This is legal, right? I don't wanna get them (or myself) in any trouble...

Please advise.

Thanks!

Nefarious
11-13-2007, 10:19 AM
Short answer.
Its fine.. BB is installed

If your not comfortable with the setup, have them just take off the grip and stock... but your fine

Shane916
11-13-2007, 10:22 AM
Hopefully the lower is off-list as well :)

tenpercentfirearms
11-13-2007, 12:47 PM
I am assuming you have an FFL or it is getting sent to an FFL. If so then yes it is legal as long as it is off-list.

bwiese
11-13-2007, 1:05 PM
Hell, the lower is not a semiauto centerfire rifle. It's just a lower - it is not a rifle, and does not exert control over determination of 'semiauto' or 'centerfire' attributes.

We now know that whether or not PGs or telestocks are on the lower is irrelevant and a BB or fixed mag does not need to be installed.

viras
11-14-2007, 9:28 AM
Hell, the lower is not a semiauto centerfire rifle. It's just a lower - it is not a rifle, and does not exert control over determination of 'semiauto' or 'centerfire' attributes.

We now know that whether or not PGs or telestocks are on the lower is irrelevant and a BB or fixed mag does not need to be installed.

Hi Bill,

I'm glad you commented because it was your article which made me kindof nervous. :D

I was looking at the "OLL FAQ's" when you go to www.calguns.com... Specifically #9:

9. How can I make a legal “off-list” / “non-Harrott” AR rifle?

Begin with a legally-acquired, off-list bare receiver, acquired through a California firearms dealer (FFL) – that is, a receiver that is not specified by both manufacturer and model in the California Code of Regulation, 979.11 and PC 12276(e).

If your dealer is ordering it for you, he should ensure it’s shipped to him without an attached pistol grip and/or without a folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock. (Remember: a bare AR or AK lower with a pistol grip and/or a folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock is an assault weapon. A receiver with open mag well but no pistol grip but having a barrel attached with a flash hider mounted is also an assault weapon.)

You should also acquire a low-capacity fixed magazine or kit. For example, the vendor at http://www.AR15Plus.COM , sells a complete fixed-mag setup for $29.95. Sporting Conversions offers a well-regarded kit as well. Any 10-round magazine will work and a legal do-it-yourself solution could also be developed. Just don’t use a spring on the magazine catch, cut a bit off the magazine catch threaded stud (as necessary), and secure the magazine catch with a castle nut instead of the traditional pushbutton. It’s important that this not work loose during operation, and that you can’t access it with your fingers or fingernails – so perhaps a bit of ThreadLok or Glyptol is helpful.

So that this is not considered a detachable magazine by DOJ Firearms Division regulations, it must require tool(s) to be used for removal/replacement, and the magazine cannot be removable/replaceable in normal course of rifle operation.

Only after a fixed low-capacity magazine is attached and screwed down should the pistol grip and/or folding or telestock be attached. Conversely, if the fixed magazine on the rifle needs to be removed for repair or cleaning, the pistol grip and/or telestock, folding stock or thumbhole stock must be removed first.



NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!

ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED.

Add your choice of barreled upper receiver (16” minimum barrel length), add a buttstock, and you’re ready to go. Note that the overall length of your rifle must be a minimum of 30 inches or it becomes an assault weapon too.

Note also that since this gun does not have a detachable magazine, you can also have a flash hider and telescoping stock added.

Since you're here, can you please comment on the bold sentences above? Is the article just a little old/outdated?

viras
11-14-2007, 9:40 AM
I am assuming you have an FFL or it is getting sent to an FFL. If so then yes it is legal as long as it is off-list.

Yes. My FFL is Unique Pawn Brokers in San Diego, CA. They're awesome! No hassles whatsoever.

viras
11-14-2007, 9:41 AM
Hopefully the lower is off-list as well :)

Yessir it is.

bwiese
11-14-2007, 2:07 PM
Viras,

What I wrote (and you quoted above) was good for stressful times in early 2006.

We now know that it's hyper-overconservative, and we now have clear understanding that either a stripped receiver, or a receiver with any grip/stock attached but no upper attached, is *not* a working rifle, and *cannot* be considered semiauto nor centerfire by itself.

PIRATE14
11-14-2007, 2:17 PM
Hello,

I've gotten a reputable company to agree to send me a completed lower receiver w/pistolgrip & collapsible stock attached, with a bullet button already installed. They are fully aware that I'm in CA.

This is legal, right? I don't wanna get them (or myself) in any trouble...

Please advise.

Thanks!

Is it legal yes....but will the FFL accept in said condition......

Most the vendors here should know which FFL will accept lowers/rifles and in what configuration.......sometimes the FFLs do change their minds.....it's their bz to run......:chris:

viras
11-14-2007, 3:19 PM
Viras,

What I wrote (and you quoted above) was good for stressful times in early 2006.

We now know that it's hyper-overconservative, and we now have clear understanding that either a stripped receiver, or a receiver with any grip/stock attached but no upper attached, is *not* a working rifle, and *cannot* be considered semiauto nor centerfire by itself.

Thank you Bill! That was just the answer I was looking for.

hoffmang
11-14-2007, 8:58 PM
Also note that if you have a "nervous" CA receiving FFL, just have the out of state vendor send you the PG and the stock directly and send the rest of the fully assembled lower to the CA FFL.

Built OLLs are not semiautomatic centerfire rifles, but they are firearms as is well outlined above.

-Gene

tenpercentfirearms
11-14-2007, 9:41 PM
I think I will take you guy's word on that and continue to have my rifles sent in in parts. No need to be a test case on this one for me. I have bigger plans.