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View Full Version : How to educate your local law enforcement about OLL?


Grouch
11-11-2007, 11:28 PM
How can we go about and educate our local PD's and SD's about the truth regarding OLL's?

I was thinking of a few potential ideas.

Maybe print up a hundred or so copies of the AR/AK memo along with OLL FAQ and leave them at you're police station. Hopefully you have an "in" that would allow these papers more direct and guaranteed access and availability to LEO's instead of being thrown out by some front desk person.

Or offering to do free power point lectures on current gun laws. Lectures that would give detailed info on recent court decisions, mag locks, alternate grips, ect.

I think these are safer, maybe not as effective as giving free range demonstrations

Crazed_SS
11-11-2007, 11:42 PM
How can we go about and educate our local PD's and SD's about the truth regarding OLL's?

I was thinking of a few potential ideas.

Maybe print up a hundred or so copies of the AR/AK memo along with OLL FAQ and leave them at you're police station. Hopefully you have an "in" that would allow these papers more direct and guaranteed access and availability to LEO's instead of being thrown out by some front desk person.

Or offering to do free power point lectures on current gun laws. Lectures that would give detailed info on recent court decisions, mag locks, alternate grips, ect.

I think these are safer, maybe not as effective as giving free range demonstrations

My best friend from elementary school is a SD Sherriff Deputy. We were in the Marines together and everything. I explained to him how OLLs and Saigas and such are legal. He listened, but was still skeptical even after seeing the CWS table at the gun show. If I couldnt convince someone I've known for 17 years, I doubt I'd be able to convince a random LEO during a traffic stop.

But then again, I was in Ammo Bros a couple weeks ago and there were some cops there in uniform fingering off-list AKs.. so it just comes down to the cop I guess.

Grouch
11-11-2007, 11:48 PM
My best friend from elementary school is a SD Sherriff Deputy. We were in the Marines together and everything. I explained to him how OLLs and Saigas and such are legal. He listened, but was still skeptical even after seeing the CWS table at the gun show. If I couldnt convince someone I've known for 17 years, I doubt I'd be able to convince a random LEO during a traffic stop.

But then again, I was in Ammo Bros a couple weeks ago and there were some cops there in uniform fingering off-list AKs.. so it just comes down to the cop I guess.


Well the whole point is to convince them before a traffic stop. That's why these are ideas are attempt to be proactive instead of waiting to talk your way out of problems after the fact.

Crazed_SS
11-11-2007, 11:59 PM
I think an official memo from the DOJ would work wonders as well as an update to the AW identification guide. When I was trying to explain to my friend, he pulled out his AW guide and pointed out where it says:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Category 2. AK and AR-15 Series Weapons
The California Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of
1989 in Kasler v. Lockyer. This decision took effect August 16, 2000. Effective August 16, 2000, firearm
models that are variations of the AK or AR-15, with only minor differences from those two models, are assault
weapons under the original Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. A

Though the kasler list is on the last two pages, the "guide" is out of date and confusing. A cop who is relying on it to make a decision on could easily make the mistake of thinking an Off-list rifle was an illegal category-2 AW.

Grouch
11-12-2007, 12:06 AM
I think an official memo from the DOJ would work wonders as well as an update to the AW identification guide. When I was trying to explain to my friend, he pulled out his AW guide and pointed out where it says:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Category 2. AK and AR-15 Series Weapons
The California Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of
1989 in Kasler v. Lockyer. This decision took effect August 16, 2000. Effective August 16, 2000, firearm
models that are variations of the AK or AR-15, with only minor differences from those two models, are assault
weapons under the original Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. A

Though the kasler list is on the last two pages, the "guide" is out of date and confusing. A cop who is relying on it to make a decision on could easily make the mistake of thinking an Off-list rifle was an illegal category-2 AW.


Sure those would be lovely but it will never happen. That is why one needs to be proactive, idling by, hoping that enough LEO's stumble to this site to learn the truth isn't going to help cure any ignorance or save law abiding gun owners any heartache. The DOJ is doing everything it can to pretend Harrott never happened; it will never publish anything that would publicly announce the courts ruling on the law.

fun2none
11-12-2007, 2:50 AM
The basis for OLL legality is Harrott vs County of Kings.

Is Harrott too controversial for the NRA to conduct a PR campaign or public awareness program ?

Did not a DOJ attorney publicly acknowledge Harrott in one of her infamous memos ?

Grouch
11-12-2007, 10:05 AM
The basis for OLL legality is Harrott vs County of Kings.

Is Harrott too controversial for the NRA to conduct a PR campaign or public awareness program ?

Did not a DOJ attorney publicly acknowledge Harrott in one of her infamous memos ?



It seems so, the NRA hasn't touched it.

What the DOJ acknowledge in a single memo doesn't have much effect on what countless law enforcement officers perceive to be assault weapons.

Ten Rounder
11-12-2007, 11:38 AM
It seems so, the NRA hasn't touched it.

What the DOJ acknowledge in a single memo doesn't have much effect on what countless law enforcement officers perceive to be assault weapons.

I live in northern Cal. There are 3 gun shops in the last major city going north to the oregan border. What I have noticed is that the LEO perception of the OLL's is how they conduct their business towards the OLL. The greater the LEO presences in the store the less there will be any OLL traffic.

One shop is heavily used by LEO's, and the counterman there proclaims OLL's to be illegal. WTF. Seams that they believe what ever spews out of the DOJ's mouth and so do the LEO's that support them. One shop will do transfers but no displays. The third knows about them but won't due transfers as they also have a modest LEO traffic.

The mentality of "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be a duck", against OLL is just that. What's a OLL? It's not. Whats that you say. Must be an AW. This is the slow thinking up north state. Almost like another planet sometimes.

While I have had a sit down with my elected sheriff about OLL's, I still worry about the his Barney Fifes, DFG, USFS Ranges, and the CHP that are not in his department.

One must prepared to defend themselves with a sufficient packet of paperwork on the law. The buck should start with you the gun owner on the first encounter.

Grouch
11-12-2007, 12:03 PM
One must prepared to defend themselves with a sufficient packet of paperwork on the law. The buck should start with you the gun owner on the first encounter.

The buck should start with gun owners, safely and actively trying to educate LEO's on OLL's.

You're still being passive. Hoping that LEO's will learn about them on their own or that you'll be able to on the spot prove to and convince a LEO, who has decided that he or she wants to inspect your rifle, that it in fact a legal firearm.

That is waiting for a problem to occur rather than going out and attempting to educated LEO's and prevent it from happening in the first place. It doesn't attempt to fix anything.

Ten Rounder
11-12-2007, 12:20 PM
what did the sheriff say when you talked to him.sorry to here about the misinformed people you have to deal with.

My sheriff was more worried about OLL being converted to full auto than a legal configured OLL. He said own and enjoy.

Ten Rounder
11-12-2007, 12:24 PM
The buck should start with gun owners, safely and actively trying to educate LEO's on OLL's.

You're still being passive. Hoping that LEO's will learn about them on their own or that you'll be able to on the spot prove to and convince a LEO, who has decided that he or she wants to inspect your rifle, that it in fact a legal firearm.

That is waiting for a problem to occur rather than going out and attempting to educated LEO's and prevent it from happening in the first place. It doesn't attempt to fix anything.

Passive???? please reread my post. I started at the top of my counties food chain. What have you done?

Grouch
11-12-2007, 2:09 PM
Passive???? please reread my post. I started at the top of my counties food chain. What have you done?

You're advicating passive action are you not? :rolleyes:

One must prepared to defend themselves with a sufficient packet of paperwork on the law. The buck should start with you the gun owner on the first encounter.

You've talked to one person, but youre actions as you explained them ended there. Thats a great first step and everyone should the same, is this person going to tell everyone below him?

But to tell peoplr to sit, wait and be prepared with paper work is not going to help anyone PREVENT problems.

Ten Rounder
11-12-2007, 3:21 PM
You're advicating passive action are you not? :rolleyes:



You've talked to one person, but youre actions as you explained them ended there. Thats a great first step and everyone should the same, is this person going to tell everyone below him?

But to tell peoplr to sit, wait and be prepared with paper work is not going to help anyone PREVENT problems.

In true Liberal fashion you ignored my question. So I will ask it again, "What have you done?"

I did One of 58, and now there are 57 left. How more active can one get?

Are you man enough to Cowboy Up to your own Sheriff and show him all about OLL's. Maybe he will arrest you? Maybe he will send the black helicopters for you.

I no longer have the capacity to accept morons.

EOT for me!

hitman13
11-12-2007, 3:40 PM
is your local sheriff Bosenko??? how did you go about scheduling this "sit down"?


i just have a bone to pick about a different firearm related issue...

thanks

Ten Rounder
11-12-2007, 4:09 PM
is your local sheriff Bosenko??? how did you go about scheduling this "sit down"?


i just have a bone to pick about a different firearm related issue...

thanks

NO.

All one has to do is call their local elected Sheriff and schedule a meeting. You will be ask about what topic and either get a yes answer or be denied. Remember a busy department you might get shined on, don't be a gun nut. The Sheriff is YOUR elected offical and he works for you, not the other way around. The above should titled public awareness related to legal firearms. Your topic could about the same. Keyboard commando tactics don't work. Public speaking skills and listening skill are a must. If asked a question, respond with a brief an concise answer. If your answer is not enough you will be asked for more. Think of going to deposition and be in that mind set.

Grouch
11-12-2007, 6:24 PM
In true Liberal fashion you ignored my question. So I will ask it again, "What have you done?"

I did One of 58, and now there are 57 left. How more active can one get?

Are you man enough to Cowboy Up to your own Sheriff and show him all about OLL's. Maybe he will arrest you? Maybe he will send the black helicopters for you.

I no longer have the capacity to accept morons.

EOT for me!

This thread isn’t about what I have done, nor was it about what any other person has done. It’s about what we can safely and effectively do. That is why I brought up two possible actions, things other than to passively sit and wait to be stopped and questioned on your OLL rifle, which deny it all you want now, is exactly what you are advocating by saying we should be prepared with a pile of paper work.

You showed it to one sheriff. Not a DA sorry pal, as you said you still fear “Barney Fife”. Why not purse the cause further? Why not at least attempt to reach Barney and his buddies? If you want to play that game we can and we’ll see just how little most of us have really done to make OLL’s safer for everyone.

As for your worthless ad hominem attacks. Grow up man; you make all us other educated gun owners who want to do good for our cause look bad. You’re not needed in this thread or on this forum. I hope that is not the way you attempted to educate your sheriff. BTW keep calling that kettle black and avoid answering my question too. :rolleyes: