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View Full Version : Prop H oral arguments Tuesday


1911_sfca
11-10-2007, 2:51 PM
The appeals court in San Francisco will be hearing oral arguments on Proposition H (gun ban) Tuesday morning 9:30am.

kermit315
11-10-2007, 3:33 PM
better get some prep H if they have their way about things.

DedEye
11-10-2007, 5:39 PM
better get some prep H if they have their way about things.

I was thinking the same thing :43:.

CCWFacts
11-10-2007, 6:22 PM
I had no idea that the city was still wasting taxpayer dollars on this. Let's see, they'll gladly spend over $1,000,000 (one million dollars) (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/04/28/BA243267.DTL&type=printable) dealing and treating with an insane homeless person from out of state, who will never make a positive contribution to society, the city, or anything, and their city attorney describes a sweeping handgun ban as "reasonable, narrowly tailored restriction on the possession of handguns" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/13/SFGUN.TMP). I love SF above all other cities in America, and I consider myself a San Franciscan (much like Herb Caen was a San Franciscan even though he wasn't born there), so this stuff pisses me off.

By the way, the idiot behind this is professional socialist Chris Daly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Daly). His power is slowly waning there as San Franciscans get tired of the mess that is their city. When people are paying multiple millions of dollars for houses there, they get less tolerant of people puking / ____ing / etc in front of their doors.

M. Sage
11-10-2007, 6:55 PM
When people are paying multiple millions of dollars for houses there, they get less tolerant of people puking / ____ing / etc in front of their doors.

I just watched a strung-out addict that was acting confused, lost, and all the other stuff that those people get when they're really messed up, right in front of a brand-new, just-finished multi-story home that an architect put up for HUGE amounts of $$$$

I can't believe people not only put up with people like the SF Board of Supes, but they outright ask for the privilege!

CCWFacts
11-10-2007, 7:07 PM
Let me explain how this happened, and why it is happening less in the future:

Chris Daly represents a district that had, in the 90s, mainly "SROs", ie, flophouses, in a then-gritty area of SF. How could a few flop-houses possibly get a guy elected to the board of supes? Well, supes races are by district, and I guess not a lot of people in Daly's district show up to vote. He won... with less than 9,000 votes total in his elections. One of his three victories was with 6,642 votes. He represents about 9,000 people in SF, out of a city of 750,000. He just happens to be from a district where (historically) the people were in fact indigent, mentally ill, homeless, and registered to vote.

So that's how it happened. There are two factions in SF: the liberals (who are actually quite conservative in many ways, lead by Newsom) and the "progressives" (Daly).

As real estate becomes valuable there, these flop-houses are being removed, but Daly is fighting to make sure that all the new development includes "affordable housing" (places for Daly voters). Long term he won't win; he needs a few thousand mentally ill indigents in his district to keep him in power, and with stuff like Rincon going up, that just is not going to work. These guys moving into Rincon, are they thrilled to have to step in poo as they walk from their $1mil condos to go shopping at 5th and Market? No, they are not thrilled about that, and they will vote and organize to run Daly out of town. It's sick that that mental illness and poverty form a profitable industry that people like Daly feed on and represent politically. But it will not last.

You can think of Daly as being a parallel to the Muslim Brotherhood types in Egypt. They get the most converts where there is the most poverty, so they explicitly attack Egypt's tourist industry (a huge part of their economy) to create more poverty and more converts. It's like a cancer. Well, Daly needs mentally ill homeless people to stay in power, so he pushes for policies like cash handouts etc to ensure a constant inflow of such people. They get to SF, and they can vote, keeping the cycle going. But the cycle is now broken and Daly's power is on its way out due to real estate reality.

By the way, CalGuns people: SF could be a very conservative and pro-gun city if we had the right message. I know jokes about San Francisco are a staple of gun forums, but they could be our converts if we did it right.

M. Sage
11-10-2007, 7:53 PM
Thanks, I'm a transplant.

By the way, CalGuns people: SF could be a very conservative and pro-gun city if we had the right message. I know jokes about San Francisco are a staple of gun forums, but they could be our converts if we did it right.

+1: my boss isn't a transplant, and we talk about shooting a lot at work. Heck, I fixed his BAR for him.

bwiese
11-10-2007, 8:07 PM
Prop H was another case of "pro-gun" screwup by folks thinking they were smarter than NRA, when stuff had been all sewn up in the backroom.

Prop H was a feel-good trial balloon that was thrown up to make a statement. It sufficed for that duty whether or not it made it to the ballot. It appears NRA types worked behind the scenes to get a buncha people of all stripes - Reds, Greens, anarchists, etc. plus union types - to realize this was idiocy, and it was dying quietly on the vine.... The sponsors had made their point and didn't need it to go further. And nobody in SF gov't really wanted to fight to support Prop H, except if directly asked about it when they'd have to express an antigun position.

Then, some *gunnies* thought they knew something started making a lotta noise and backed the staff proposing Prop H in the corner - "we dare you, we'll sue" - that forced the confrontation, and forced the staff to put it on the ballot to look like they weren't backing down. They were quietly warned by NRA types but to no avail.

I'd like to blame this on GOC/CRPA, but this was just local yokels not knowing how the game was played. These idiots cost NRA several hundred grand and diverted its legal attentions from other arenas where they might have been very useful.

Someday, we'll stop shooting ourselves in our feet.

CCWFacts
11-10-2007, 8:26 PM
I don't know any of the stuff BW is talking about, but from the outside, I do know that every part of the City's establishment, including the mayor and the SF Chronicle, came out opposed to Prop H. The only supporters were guys like Daly, who is a marginal and increasingly ostracized outsider representing less than 9,000 (and shrinking) voters. Yes it passed. As we should all be aware, support for gun control in places like SF is a mile wide and an inch deep. When the question gets on the ballot, an inch deep is all it takes to pass. But don't confuse that with "strong" support for gun control.

SF has one other problem which is that there is a certain powerful senator / former mayor from SF, who, due to personal psychological trauma and problems, is passionately anti-gun-rights. It's just her. A lot of San Franciscans think guns are cool. Anyone who was at Burning Man in the early 90s would know, a lot of San Franciscans love their firepower! And we're talkin' stuff that's no longer legal in California.

dfletcher
11-10-2007, 8:28 PM
Does anyone have an informed view of whether or not the appeal will fly and if it does, is it "turn them in" now or status quo until the next round?

anotherone
11-10-2007, 9:52 PM
Now that SB 1471 has been signed into law it almost kinda makes this whole thing a moot point. All they're doing now is fighting to make revolvers unlawful because after 2009 I highly doubt the list of autos is going to be very long.

bwiese
11-10-2007, 10:00 PM
Now that SB 1471 has been signed into law it almost kinda makes this whole thing a moot point. All they're doing now is fighting to make revolvers unlawful because after 2009 I highly doubt the list of autos is going to be very long.

Clueless post. The list will stay at least the same if fees are paid to maintain current items and items evolved to have LCIs/mag discos. Microstamping technology encumbered by patents can't be used, so it's likely nonimplementable for quite some time.

1911_sfca
11-10-2007, 10:23 PM
Then, some *gunnies* thought they knew something started making a lotta noise and backed the staff proposing Prop H in the corner - "we dare you, we'll sue" - that forced the confrontation, and forced the staff to put it on the ballot to look like they weren't backing down. They were quietly warned by NRA types but to no avail.

I was part of the group that fought very hard against Prop H, making banners and signs, putting out advertisements, working with the SF POA for their mailers, going to political groups all over the city and putting the argument out against prop H. We spent a LOT of personal time and money to beat it, and came close, but did not succeed. But this was all after it was already on the ballot, championed by Daly et al. This was not a matter of gunnies shooting themselves in the foot, it was a matter of Daly's communist homeless "safety advocates" tugging on the political strings in the city.

And if you think this is a waste of taxpayers' money to fight through the appellate court you are right. However, it pales in comparison to the BILLIONS of dollars SF wastes on nonsense every year.

kermit315
11-10-2007, 10:55 PM
I think that if Heller goes our way, it would be stupid for them to pursue it, however, I could see them trying it in the mean time.