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View Full Version : Wood dowel in .22 Ar buffer tube???


mikeinla
11-09-2007, 10:31 AM
A few people have posted in there .22lr AR build they would put a wood dowel in the buffer tube so there is no way to make it funtion as a centerfire .223 in case the lower was switched accidentely to a .223 upper. Do you have to put a dowel in the tube?? Can you just leave the buffer tube empty, it would save the extra weight???

ocabj
11-09-2007, 10:41 AM
I'd be a little concerned if you actually did put a centerfire upper on that dowel'ed lower and fired it.

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 10:49 AM
Sounds like a valid idea, since the ceiner .22 conversion doesnt use the recoil buffer, but a different view is the conversion bolt/magazine WILL ONLY WORK WITH THE .22 LR. it is physically imposible to fire a 5.56/.223 in that configuracion. One of the reasons the military adopted them a was just that, murphy proof. But to be really safe, althought were do you stop? you can put the spring and buffer in, and the remove the conversion kit and put the standard AR bolt carrier and a detachable magazine and for sure you would get it confiscated and be arrested. But thats a HUGE "what if". Well we all know about my aunt what if she was a man then she would be my uncle

wildcard
11-09-2007, 10:50 AM
I'd be a little concerned if you actually did put a centerfire upper on that dowel'ed lower and fired it.

You'd have to be super negligent considering it would be pretty darn difficult to chamber the round in the first place. I suppose if the dowel wasn't long enough, you could pull open the bolt just far enough to hand feed a round through the ejection port..

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 10:52 AM
I'd be a little concerned if you actually did put a centerfire upper on that dowel'ed lower and fired it.


I would want to be close by on that one, wonder what the chamber pressure would get up to. If I was in another state with cheap lowers I would try it ( under controlled safe protocols)

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 10:58 AM
"Sounds like a valid idea, since the ceiner .22 conversion doesnt use the recoil buffer, but a different view is the conversion bolt/magazine WILL ONLY WORK WITH THE .22 LR. it is physically imposible to fire a 5.56/.223 in that configi uracion."

What some people are missing is you CAN fire a .223 with a .223 UPPER. I was saying you can put a .223 in a .22lr upper. I have seen people switch different uppers with different lowers swapping back and forth. The people that have already built .22lr ARs are simply saying if when you were swapping different uppers and lowers and if you ACCIDENTEL put the lower set up for .22 and that HAS a normal drop release button onto a .223 upper it would NOT funtion because of the dowel rod.

My question is "do I need the dowel rod or can I leave it empty?"

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 11:07 AM
I was saying you can put a .223 in a .22lr upper.

I understand you point, bu Im little confused the dedicated.22lr upper can not chamber a .223 round as the chamber is .22LR. If you are saying that a .223 lower used as a .22LR, (just the engraving makes it only a .223 or not?) Not very familiar with the dedicated 22 lower does it have a .223 buffer and spring? I would make that a feature just in case someone used a 223 upper with a 22 dedicated lower

elroy
11-09-2007, 11:13 AM
are you asking if the dowel would keep you uot of trouble legally ?,, i doubt it

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 11:18 AM
There are too many other factors that make it murphy proof. If your dedicated 22 lower doesnt have the recoil buffer and spring and you install a 233 upper bolt the whole kit and cabbodle. What happends when you pull the charging handle and release it easy test, do it with any AR remove the spring and buffer and try it. You will have the answer to your question. Im thinking at this point the user would know there is something wrong and perform troubleshooting. I dont know thats me

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 11:21 AM
"Not very familiar with the dedicated 22 lower does it have a .223 buffer and spring? "



A .22 lower is no different than a .223 lower



"are you asking if the dowel would keep you uot of trouble legally "


No, that was not my question. My question is " Do i NEED to put a dowel in the buffer tube or can I just leave it empty to save weight?"

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 11:26 AM
"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are too many other factors that make it murphy proof. If your dedicated 22 lower doesnt have the recoil buffer and spring and you install a 233 upper bolt the whole kit and cabbodle. What happends when you pull the charging handle and release it easy test, do it with any AR remove the spring and buffer and try it. You will have the answer to your question. Im thinking at this point the user would know there is something wrong and perform troubleshooting. I dont know thats me"




I understand that it WILL NOT work without the buffer and buffer spring. I just want to know if I can leave the tube empty????????? In other post everyone said they were going to put a dowel in the tube. To me that just seems like you are adding extra weight for no reason. Then again I really do not know, that is why I am asking the question.

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 11:29 AM
You are very familiar with the AR system, there must be a reason the manufacturer put the recoil spring and buffer in the dedicated .22 lr lower. If it was not needed, cost wise it isnt very smart. I would consult with the manufacturer

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 11:33 AM
"You are very familiar with the AR system, there must be a reason the manufacturer put the recoild spring and buffer in the dedicated .22 lr lower. I f it was not needed, cost wise it isnt very smart."


??????????????The manufacturer does not put a recoil spring and buffer in a lower. A lower for a .22lr upper is the same lower build for a .223. You can buy a .22 upper and slap it on a OLL .223 built lower

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 11:40 AM
There are now rifles built as .22 LR , you are not buying one of these, you are just converting the existing .223 to fire a 22lr, soo upper change to a conversion kit the difference is were still not a dedicated 22 lr rifle. Again murphy proof with a dowel you by accident put the 223 upper pull the charging handle what happens nothing cause there is no room for the bolt to retreat in, no dowel no spring and buffer carrier doesnt move forward. I guess six or one half dozen That man Stoner he was a genius

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 11:45 AM
Ugh.

"Again murphy proof with a dowel you by accident put the 223 upper pull the charging handle what happens nothnig cause there is no room for the bolt to retreat in, no dowel no spring and buffer carrier doesnt move forward. I guess six or one half dozen"


I am not worried about Murphy proofing anything,accidentely putting a .223 upper on it, legality, etc.
I just want to know WHY are people putting a dowel rod in the buffer tube when it can just as easily be left empty to save weight??? That is it, nothing more.

4 Brigada
11-09-2007, 11:47 AM
Is it a carbine or a full size rifle? might make a difference in the balance, for target shooting I try to add weight to my rifles. If you had to carry a AR for work (.223) it would be important. But a 22 range rifle personally I would worry about the extra half pound

NSR500
11-09-2007, 1:53 PM
Is it a carbine or a full size rifle? might make a difference in the balance, for target shooting I try to add weight to my rifles. If you had to carry a AR for work (.223) it would be important. But a 22 range rifle personally I would worry about the extra half pound


Actually, if you use a dowel made of balsa wood it might actually be lighter than the buffer and spring assembly.

mikeinla
11-09-2007, 2:26 PM
Why do you HAVE to have a dowel in the tube??

elroy
11-09-2007, 2:36 PM
"Actually, if you use a dowel made of balsa wood it might actually be lighter than the buffer and spring assembly."nsr500

i like that thinking , but ,, i just bought the bushmaster carbon 15 22lr upper kit and it uses a recoil spring that goes back into the tube with a plastic guide/spacer , and a lighter hammer and spring , if the conversions are like this , it needs a spring to work the bolt ,you cant sub a dowel , and you won't be accidentally putting on the wrong upper

NSR500
11-09-2007, 2:41 PM
For my Comfort level with regard to California Legality I choose to configure my .22 Ar as follows:

1. .22 Rimfire Marked Lower - California AW Law does not apply to Rimfire and I don't want there to be any doubt as to the Caliber of my Firearm.

2. Bolt Type Front Takedown Pin - I do not want the Upper to be able to be removed without a Tool in case of an ambitious LEO, DA, Iggy, BOF, etc...

3. Dowel in Recoil Tube - If Upper is removed and replaced with a .223 Upper by said ambitious LEO, DA, Iggy, BOF, etc... The lower will not allow the charging handle to be pulled back unless the recoil system is put in.

I may be overly cautious compared to others, but this is how I feel most comfortable.

NSR500
11-09-2007, 2:47 PM
"Actually, if you use a dowel made of balsa wood it might actually be lighter than the buffer and spring assembly."nsr500

i like that thinking , but ,, i just bought the bushmaster carbon 15 22lr upper kit and it uses a recoil spring that goes back into the tube with a plastic guide/spacer , and a lighter hammer and spring , if the conversions are like this , it needs a spring to work the bolt ,you cant sub a dowel , and you won't be accidentally putting on the wrong upper


I have not ever seen a Bushmaster system up close, but the Ceiner conversion types like the upper from Spikes look like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/innocent_bystander/MVC-106X.jpg

That is why you can run it without a buffer tube like this:

http://www.danielyaris.com/ar15web/hkar222.jpg

PLINK
11-09-2007, 3:01 PM
OK, I do not have a wooden dowel and do not plan on putting one in my .22LR build.

I recommend having a centerfire build and a .22LR build if are not comfortable switching the uppers back and forth while staying compliant in the process.

This is what I have set up.

Mil-spec lower with no buffer, no buffer spring, no buffer detent and no buffer detent spring. It is gonna be very hard to fire a traditional centerfire upper without those parts.

Upper is a Spike's .22LR only upper. It has no gas sytem (no gas tube) and can not chamber a .223 round. This .22LR barrel also has a 16:1 twist rate allowing it to be quite accurate.

I feel comfortable with this set up.

When the .22LR marked lowers come out I may pick one up depending on what it looks like (no gay animals or logos please) but only to use my current lower for something else.

I have never thought about buying or using a conversion kit.

My .02 cents.

4 Brigada
11-10-2007, 6:27 AM
I think Plink you nailed it, Why not just use everything standard leave everythintg from the mil spec in the lower, use the centerfire upper with the conversion kit. But here is the cool that you pointed out REMOVE THE GAS TUBE. if you use the centerfire parts its not a semiauto rifle.