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View Full Version : What can we do to get a shall-issue bill introduced?


CCWFacts
11-01-2007, 2:49 PM
I'm starting a new thread for this.

The history: Ten years ago, the shall-issue bill AB 1369 (http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/asm/ab_1351-1400/ab_1369_cfa_19980112_133829_asm_comm.html) was introduced and actually got through the committees to the floor. Since then, the CCW issue has disappeared from the radar in the leg. How can we change this?

Broad regions of CA are pro-gun and pro-CCW. CCW has been tried successfully in aprox. 42 other states. It's time for it to happen in California.

Introducing a bill will open up the debate (again; it was open ten years ago). It will provide gun owners something to rally for. It will put us on the offensive.

More importantly it will provide an on-record way to discuss the abuses that are widespread in the current system. Having such a bill in play will create a forum for those issues. And the more evident the abuses are the more obvious the need for reform will be.

What can we do to put this higher up on the radar of the NRA, pro-gun legislators, and (honestly) the CA Republican party?

Arnie justed signed the "Katrina bill", indicating his approval of the idea of self-defense and his willingness to signed self-defense bills. A shall-issue bill is a natural follow-up to the Katrina bill. They go together and have the same purpose. We are in a situation right now where some LEOs (sheriffs) are currently disarming (denying CCWs) to their citizens. This is exactly the same conceptual situation the Katrina bill addresses.

How can we, as California NRA members, put pressure on our own organization to take leadership on this and get the NRA lobbyists to start pressuring their friends in the legislature?

JeffCinSac
11-01-2007, 3:07 PM
Um, actually, a shall-issue bill passed the floor of the Assembly before being stalled in committee in the Senate. The difference between then and now? Republican majority in the Assembly.

-J

Edited to add: Can anyone name a state with both a shall-issue CCW law and a state-level AWB? I bet not.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 3:07 PM
Is there anyone here from a CCW-friendly county who is willing to sit down with his state representative to talk about this? If multiple people from that same county could do the face-to-face, that would be even better.

I'd do it, except that in my county being pro-gun is considered the same as being psychologically diseased. :mad:

nhanson
11-01-2007, 3:14 PM
I'm a kern county issued CCW and our representatives are pro-gun/self defense as well. I'd be willing to try if others in Kern county (and others welcomed) would like to really join in. Any meeting that might be given would be in Kern most likely.

Enjoy

tgriffin
11-01-2007, 3:16 PM
Is there anyone here from a CCW-friendly county who is willing to sit down with his state representative to talk about this? If multiple people from that same county could do the face-to-face, that would be even better.

I'd do it, except that in my county being pro-gun is considered the same as being psychologically diseased. :mad:

I'm in the same boat unfortunatly. I'm family friends with George Miller [D-Martinez], but he and I have been down a similar road to no avail before.

CCWFacts
11-01-2007, 3:18 PM
NHanson, If I could pick one rep in this state to introduce a CCW bill, it would be Kern County's Nicole Parra (http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a30/). She's a pro-gun Democrat in a high-issuance semi-urban county. She would be ideal. If you're in Kern, why don't you get a meeting with her? Get some of your other CCWers. And PM me if you're setting this up.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 3:21 PM
I'm a kern county issued CCW and our representatives are pro-gun/self defense as well. I'd be willing to try if others in Kern county (and others welcomed) would like to really join in. Any meeting that might be given would be in Kern most likely.

Enjoy

I'm willing to join in, although as a non-resident of the county I believe my presence would do little more than fill a chair. Maybe you can drop a note in the Kern county subforum at californiaccw to see if anyone there is interested in helping out:

http://californiaccw.org/forums/show/17.page

Glock22Fan
11-01-2007, 3:38 PM
Maybe you can drop a note in the Kern county subforum at californiaccw to see if anyone there is interested in helping out:

Yes, there's been one post there since August 21st. People in Kern don't generally see a problem because Donny Youngblood is one of the Good Guys.

Bizcuits
11-01-2007, 3:47 PM
Sounds like a great idea, while stuck in Sac, Kern would be to far of a visit. If it could be done closer I'm sure I could get a few chairs filled. Although with Kern County having a pro-gun stance with a female demo, sounds like a better plan of attack.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 3:53 PM
Yes, there's been one post there since August 21st. People in Kern don't generally see a problem because Donny Youngblood is one of the Good Guys.

That people in places like Kern don't generally see there's a problem is part of the reason why there's a problem. :)

bwiese
11-01-2007, 4:06 PM
Until composition of Assembly & Senate Public Safety committees (approximate names) are changed, we won't have much chance.

Can'thavenuthingood
11-01-2007, 4:14 PM
What can we do to get a shall-issue bill introduced?

Get the state redistricted, until then very little is going to change.

Push for redistricting.

Vick

Glock22Fan
11-01-2007, 4:50 PM
That people in places like Kern don't generally see there's a problem is part of the reason why there's a problem. :)

That's what B.J. said in this morning's post.

nhanson
11-01-2007, 11:31 PM
I'll be glad to give Ms. Parra a call and see if she will take a meeting.
I was also thinking of my district Assembly Dist 32 and Senate Dist 18 with Ms Fuller and Mr Ashburn.

I may be able to do this Fri, if not early next week.

bweise may have the right opinion however, it does not hurt to ask. Additionally, here in Kern the Sheriff stood up a few years back and usurped the local PDs to avoid legalities by PD not issuing and restricting usage of CCW licencing. He felt this was what the law required, would unburden the courts and have a more uniform standard on the "may" issue. So, maybe our representatives might see the same options since folks are moving ahead with legal challenges in some counties.

Anybody have any other lever points that might represent an overall advantage to CA like less cost or anything else....please post.

Enjoy

bbguns44
11-02-2007, 9:45 AM
Plenty of money. If you can write fat checks to enough senators + rep,
you can get the bill introduced. Otherwise, dream on. That's how politics
work.

M. D. Van Norman
11-02-2007, 12:51 PM
See the posts at the top of this page by Bill and Vick. You will notice that they cancel each other out. Once again, it’s “elect more Republicans,” which we can’t do.

“Elect more Republicans.” That, my friends, is a prescription for defeat. You know what that means? The ballot box and the soap box are done. Is our only hope in California the jury box or the moving box?

Wait! Let’s try to fight back for once. Get someone to sponsor a damned shall-issue bill and let us flood the phone lines and mailboxes in Sacramento with support. When the bill fails—and we know it will—submit it again in the next session and in the session after that and in the session after that until we either win or are crushed into the dirt.

Win this fight or lose the war.

bwiese
11-02-2007, 1:01 PM
See the posts at the top of this page by Bill and Vick. You will notice that they cancel each other out. Once again, it’s “elect more Republicans,” which we can’t do.

“Elect more Republicans.” That, my friends, is a prescription for defeat.


Hold Republicans' feet to the fire. Get them to produce more electable Republicans and kick away the Orange County 'pro-life' stance which is the major cause for their nonelectability in the suburban metro homeowner demographic - a high-voting segment the R's should *own*. We could get an extra seat or two on Public Safety committess and 4 to a half-dozen more votes in each house. That would not only "stop loss" as far as gun issues, it'd let us move forward.

Get someone to sponsor a damned shall-issue bill and let us flood the phone lines and mailboxes in Sacramento with support. When the bill fails—and we know it will—submit it again in the next session and in the session after that and in the session after that until we either win or are crushed into the dirt.

Issues, like real estate listings, get "tired" with repeated and extended exposure. It should be started when we have a better chance.

Right now our best chance is thru the courts.

RAD-CDPII
11-02-2007, 1:08 PM
Until you get rid of Don Perata, you don't stand a chance!!!
http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39355

ibanezfoo
11-02-2007, 2:59 PM
I want a bill that takes away all of the previous bills that limit what and when I carry. I may have missed it, but I didn't see anywhere in the Second Amendment about "with our permission and after you take a safety class".

-Bryan

M. D. Van Norman
11-02-2007, 3:07 PM
Right now our best chance is thru the courts.

I think I know what the answer would be if I were to ask how we might do this. “Elect more Republicans.”

Sorry, but no. I’m not playing that game anymore. The Republicans have to earn my vote, if they want it. Of course, even when I do vote for Republicans, they still lose.

The system is rigged, but that doesn’t mean we can’t fight within it. The RKBA is only a partisan issue, such as it is, because we keep letting it be defined that way. In reality, it’s an issue of control versus freedom, and both major political parties are about control.

Stop arguing politics and start arguing issues. We need a victory, or we’re done. That means we need a cause to rally around, and I think shall-issue concealed carry is the cause with greatest impact and the widest appeal. If someone has a better suggestion, please share it.

And don’t tell me that the issue will get “tired” if we keep pushing it. There are pages and pages of gun-control law that say you’re flat-out wrong about this.

God Bless The Mauser
11-02-2007, 4:18 PM
We can't keep talking about what we are going to do, we need to get out there and do it. I see too much talk of what should be done but it's only talk. We all need to get involved and get others involved. The Katrina bill getting passed is good but we can't stop there. The anti gunners did not stop and that’s how CA got the way it is. I'm willing to get involved and tell friends and get them involved. No more being on the defensive, lets get serious about this.

joe4702
11-02-2007, 6:38 PM
The 2/3 requirement to pass a budget does give the Republicans some power in the CA Legislature. I wish they'd use that as a bargaining chip to get some pro-2A legislation passed.

"We'll trade you shall-issue CCW for that big new welfare program you want" :D

M. Sage
11-02-2007, 7:58 PM
"We'll trade you shall-issue CCW for that big new welfare program you want" :D

Great, so I'd be able own guns I couldn't afford? :eek:

Rob P.
11-03-2007, 9:32 AM
The problem isn't "elect more republicans" or any of the other slogans being tossed about here. The problem is that we're not looking at, or thinking about, the right process to get what we want.

We need to stop thinking that we can change the political landscape in one shot and get everything we want. We need to START thinking about incremental change designed to eventually get some muscle to get the unconstitutional stuff tossed. The only way to do that is to start on something innocuous and work from there.

How about instead of 'shall issue' we get the state legislature to change from '58 individual counties with an abused discretionary issue system' to 'A DOJ dept discretionary issue under a uniform standard system'? (BTW, we can put the Orange County Corona indictment to good use under this idea. He has been said to have abused his office to issue permits - so, let's stop the abuse thing and put issuance under ONE statewide dept so that permits can't be issued to political friends. Liberal areas like SF and LA and SD should actually like that idea.)

This puts all issuance under one dept head who can be put under the microscope of public scrutiny. Eventually we get statistics we can use statewide to show that CCW isn't such a horrific slaughter prone idea. Then we start to change the standard under which CCW is issued. Then we eliminate the discretion part. Then we pass 'shall issue'.

It's a long term battle but it has a much better chance at change than the 'win or lose' idea. And, a pro-gun county representative would be a good choice to spearhead this effort without looking like a gun nut. They look with favor towards guns and yet this would seem like a "lock 'em all up" sort of idea.

Paladin
11-03-2007, 5:37 PM
We need to stop thinking that we can change the political landscape in one shot and get everything we want. We need to START thinking about incremental change designed to eventually get some muscle to get the unconstitutional stuff tossed. The only way to do that is to start on something innocuous and work from there.

How about instead of 'shall issue' we get the state legislature to change from '58 individual counties with an abused discretionary issue system' to 'A DOJ dept discretionary issue under a uniform standard system'? (BTW, we can put the Orange County Corona indictment to good use under this idea. He has been said to have abused his office to issue permits - so, let's stop the abuse thing and put issuance under ONE statewide dept so that permits can't be issued to political friends. Liberal areas like SF and LA and SD should actually like that idea.)

This puts all issuance under one dept head who can be put under the microscope of public scrutiny. Eventually we get statistics we can use statewide to show that CCW isn't such a horrific slaughter prone idea. Then we start to change the standard under which CCW is issued. Then we eliminate the discretion part. Then we pass 'shall issue'.See the thread I started over at: http://www.californiaccw.org/posts/list/4433.page