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View Full Version : What will happen to CCW Issuance Now?


AfricanHunter
11-01-2007, 9:26 AM
I'm sure many of you have heard about the charges brought against Sheriff Carona. How do you think this will affect CCW issuance in OC? Will he have to step down? If so, how is the new Sheriff going to be determined? Would like to hear thoughts on how this will affect the situation in OC.

Shotgun Man
11-01-2007, 9:34 AM
I'm sure many of you have heard about the charges brought against Sheriff Carona. How do you think this will affect CCW issuance in OC? Will he have to step down? If so, how is the new Sheriff going to be determined? Would like to hear thoughts on how this will affect the situation in OC.

I don't see how it will affect CCW issuance.

Will he step down? Right now, it doesn't seem so, but things may change.

I read that a new sheriff would be appointed by a the board of supervisors until a special election can be called.

I also read that the prosecutor asked the judge to bar Carona from possessing firearms, but the judge refused.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 9:46 AM
One of the reasons why we don't have shall-issue CCW in this state is because a lot, but not all, of the counties in CA operate as if they are practically shall-issue. So apparently the people in those counties don't feel a pressing need to push for shall-issue, which means the rest of us are left twisting in the wind because the political pressure for reform is muted.

But all it takes is a change of sheriff, maybe a scandal or two, and any given "good" county can switch over to disarming it's residents.

I think the people of orange county may be about to learn that lesson the hard way.

The single most pressing firearm reform legislation that we need in this state is to go to shall-issue. Wait a little bit, and I'll bet gun owners in OC will be agreeing with me.

M. D. Van Norman
11-01-2007, 10:37 AM
I doubt many of us in Orange County disagreed with you before. How we can get shall-issue concealed carry through the Legislature and signed into law when we canít even stop a foolish micro-stamping bill is beyond me. We donít even have a politician willing to submit such a bill.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 11:26 AM
I doubt many of us in Orange County disagreed with you before. How we can get shall-issue concealed carry through the Legislature and signed into law when we canít even stop a foolish micro-stamping bill is beyond me. We donít even have a politician willing to submit such a bill.

Kick the extremists out of the Republican party and push moderates (who also happen to be pro-2A) through the primaries. Do it enough times, and we should at least be able to get a shall-issue CCW bill submitted.

Given that 40 US states have shall-issue CCW, or better, wanting shall-issue CCW in this state is a moderate position to take.

CCWFacts
11-01-2007, 12:02 PM
Some rep from OC should introduce a CCW bill. It's time. It was done. AB 1369 (http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/asm/ab_1351-1400/ab_1369_cfa_19980112_133829_asm_comm.html) was a shall-issue bill about ten years ago. It was introduced. It passed through the committees. It came to the floor for a vote. We need to reintroduce a bill like that and do that again.

It will take years, and many tries, to pass, but we need to have something to focus on and work towards.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 12:52 PM
Some rep from OC should introduce a CCW bill. It's time. It was done. AB 1369 (http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/asm/ab_1351-1400/ab_1369_cfa_19980112_133829_asm_comm.html) was a shall-issue bill about ten years ago. It was introduced. It passed through the committees. It came to the floor for a vote. We need to reintroduce a bill like that and do that again.

It will take years, and many tries, to pass, but we need to have something to focus on and work towards.

Yes. Also, if we go on the offensive by pushing a CCW bill through the legislature, that means the antis have to defend against it. This means they'll have fewer resources available to push for crappy laws like microstamping.

The whole political capital equation might work in our favor too. A governor can say, "Well, we stopped that shall-issue CCW bill, so there I've done everything for you that I can this session. Sorry, can't pass that ban ammo ban you're so hot for."

I see no downside to getting a shall-issue CCW bill introduced into committee.

How about a rep from one of the rural counties? Why aren't they doing it?

Piper
11-01-2007, 1:03 PM
I expect to see shall issue when open carry is the norm. Government agents are not going to give up that advantage without being forced. As far as I'm concerned, no county in Kalyfornya resembles "shall issue", it's just slightly less restrictive than the others.

Parker/Heller should be decided before I finish school. Depending on how SOTUS rules, I will decide then whether to stay or leave Kalyfornya for a less restrictive state.

CCWFacts
11-01-2007, 1:24 PM
I see no downside to getting a shall-issue CCW bill introduced into committee.

Neither do I. We need to open the debate here and create a rallying point.

How about a rep from one of the rural counties? Why aren't they doing it?

I don't know. Some should. There are rural counties here with very high issuance rates and solid NRA pro-gun cultures. Maybe one factor is that those counties know they will always have pro-issuance sheriffs. Who knows. Maybe the Republican leadership or the NRA has something to do with it.

But I think it's time for such a bill to be introduced.

They did it ten years ago, they can do it again.

M. D. Van Norman
11-01-2007, 1:32 PM
Also, if we go on the offensive by pushing a CCW bill through the legislature, that means the antis have to defend against it. This means theyíll have fewer resources available to push for crappy laws like microstamping.

Exactly, and these bills have to be reintroduced every session, just like the prohibitionists do with their legislation. Instead, however, we are told that this canít be done until we can get more pro-gun Republicans into office. Well, guess what? Thatís not going to happen so long as the system is rigged to maintain the current balance of power.

In the meantime, California gun owners continue to support Republicans who are only slightly less anti-gun than most Democrats. The prohibitionist bills keep on coming, and despite our best grass-roots efforts, they eventually slip through one by one. We look around for leadership only to see infighting.

We have to change our strategies and tactics immediately if not sooner.

Fjold
11-01-2007, 1:37 PM
Kick the extremists out of the Democratic party and push moderates (who also happen to be pro-2A) through the primaries. Do it enough times, and we should at least be able to get a shall-issue CCW bill submitted.

Given that 40 US states have shall-issue CCW, or better, wanting shall-issue CCW in this state is a moderate position to take.


I fixed it for you.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 1:51 PM
I don't know. Some should. There are rural counties here with very high issuance rates and solid NRA pro-gun cultures. Maybe one factor is that those counties know they will always have pro-issuance sheriffs. Who knows. Maybe the Republican leadership or the NRA has something to do with it.


This part of your post frustrated me more than anything I've read on this site in a long time. It appears that CA gunnies have been told to go into a holding pattern in hopes of better times, but clearly the direction we're on will only result in things getting worse and worse. There will never be any better times, unless we go on the offense with our political desires.

Right now I'm biting my tongue and hoping that whatever Gene has planned (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=7151) will result in an organization that will finally start aggressively pushing for bills that will advance our 2A rights in this state.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 1:54 PM
I fixed it for you.

The only way to fix the CA Democratic party is to disband it altogether.

The far easier fix is to make the CA Republican party be more competitive against the CA Democratic party. How to do that is, of course, open to debate.

CCWFacts
11-01-2007, 2:23 PM
The far easier fix is to make the CA Republican party be more competitive against the CA Democratic party. How to do that is, of course, open to debate.

Bible thumpers are never never ever going to get support in urban, educated, non-Christian (Los Angeles for example) California cities. It's that simple. Repubs, if you want to win in CA, abandon the thumpers.

bulgron
11-01-2007, 3:05 PM
Bible thumpers are never never ever going to get support in urban, educated, non-Christian (Los Angeles for example) California cities. It's that simple. Repubs, if you want to win in CA, abandon the thumpers.

I don't think they have to be abandoned, per se. But their presence has to be, I don't know, muted I suppose is a good way to describe it.

Billy Jack
11-01-2007, 6:28 PM
Some other sites have invoked the Ďcone of silenceí for very good reasons. They fear that the current FBI investigation may spill over with demands by the Board of Supervisors for a full audit of the CCW Program at OCSD. Any new Sheriff whether he comes from the outside or within will have to address this issue as well. Anyone with an OCSD CCW who does not believe there will be changes is in total denial. Just like in the movies most of us saw as children there may soon be; "A new Sheriff in town". He will have to kick *** and take names and his pencil will be broken. There will be a different CCW system in Orange County when this Federal matter is over. Gentlemen, you can count on it. Last time this happened was strangely enough in 1991. Hum, I wonder what happened to bring about that change? Oh well, it will come to me.

I want to point out what happened when a new Sheriff took office in Kern County and in Santa Barbara County. Kern County Sheriff Youngblood simply began following the law and Policy. CCW holders panicked and several other sites kept posting misinformation and feeding the hysteria. When the dust settled, all was well in the kingdom.

In Santa Barbara Sheriff Brown was faced with a unique problem. He inherited the LEXIPOL Policy which was not being followed by his predecessor. The jury is still out with regard to him.

I want to make one thing very clear to those with CCW's from any department in California. If you allow your CLEO to violate the law just because they are issuing and has issued one to you, you are part of the problem. What is happening in Orange County is aberrational and probably could not happen anywhere else in the state. If you see the law not being followed let your CLEO know about it. You might save them an embarrassing visit from Billy Jack with one of those pesky Federal lawsuits.

"Just as fire cleanses the Earth, so does scandal cleanse government" Billy Jack

Good night and good luck.

Billy Jack


http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/blog/


"When policemen break the law, then there isn't any law, just a fight for survival!" Billy Jack

Cola King Martini
11-01-2007, 11:47 PM
Preston, no offense, but if your case was so groundbreaking, everyone on this site would have a CCW by now. It primarily helped you. More power to you, but when your actions get more than cash for you and a CCW for your client it will be meaningful.