Dr. Cavala and Bwiese Agree?

[Anthonysmanifesto]

While, Dr. Cavala's personal animosity for the NRA is obvious -the Bills are having a near meeting of the minds!!! cats and dogs playing together...

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/10/hamhanded_pro-g.html

btw, posts on the topic are widely read

[Harbinger]

I really enjoyed reading this comment:

CaliforniaCop October 16, 2007 at 08:13 PM

As a member of PORAC, I can assure you the rank and file I work with opposed 1471. PORAC is in bed with the politicians and has the primary job of securing us very good benefits. The law enforcement that "supported" this bill were our "chiefs" who are appointed by politicians. Most elected Sheriffs opposed this bill along with rank and file officers as it will waist our resources.

1471 will not solve any crimes as criminals do not buy guns legally and register them, but rather use the black market which bypasses the laws which only effect the law abiding. And micro stamping can be easily defeated with simple tools. Also micro stamped "brass" (expended metal casings) could be picked up at shooting ranges and scattered at crime scenes causing law enforcement to waist time following up bad leads.

This is nothing more then a step toward civilian disarmament as the direct assaults on self defense rights and gun ownership have failed.

Micro stamping has been found to be an unreliable technology and will waist many crime fighting dollars that could be used elsewhere. Even a study by the University of CA stated, "At this time it is not recommended that a mandate for implementation of this technology for all handguns in California be made".

1471 has as much to do with ineffective crime control as California's misguided public disarmament laws; PC12031(incorporated city - loaded firearm prohibited) & PC12025(concealed firearm prohibited). These laws also do nothing to discourage criminals and gang members from carrying guns (concealed and loaded) while bent on committing felony rape, robbery, and murder of peaceful disarmed Californians. What is another felony to them? But the criminals here, as in Washington DC, do thank the politicians for delivering their victims to them unarmed.

Mike

[bwiese]

And there were people here doubting me. "Show us proof," they said.

We'll never get Arnie to say so, but it's linda nice to have my take on the situation essentially verified by the opposition (of course, without the GOC vs NRA etc sub-drama).

[AKman]

...By the way, recent posts are being WIDELY read in Sacramento.

:eek: They didn't read about the Toys for Tots raffle, did they? I would hate for anyone to find out that these kids are getting toys from...gun owners. These poor kids could be scarred for life.:(

[Fjold]

PORAC seems to have a "waist" problem.

[AJAX22]

By the way, recent posts are being WIDELY read in Sacramento.

Which topics have generated the most interest? Inquiring minds want to know.

[pnkssbtz]

Which topics have generated the most interest? Inquiring minds want to know.

I was under the impression that the posts on Cavala's site?

[stator]

1471 was never about fighting crime. It was about political capital and favors by those few who hold the patent for micro-stamping. Arnold knows it, our state critters knows it, but those that fought 1471 did so ineffectively on the wrong grounds.

Bottom line is that no politician expects micro-stamping to work Getting political insiders rich on the backs of the sporting taxpayer was the expectation.

[Librarian]

1471 was never about fighting crime. It was about political capital and favors by those few who hold the patent for micro-stamping. Arnold knows it, our state critters knows it, but those that fought 1471 did so ineffectively on the wrong grounds.

Bottom line is that no politician expects micro-stamping to work Getting political insiders rich on the backs of the sporting taxpayer was the expectation.Further speculation: DeSaulnier, my (ack! Ptui!) 11th District Assemblyperson is a first-termer; by some recent newspaper accounts he's being groomed for higher-up party offices and is on the insider list with current Dem leadership. Thus his willingness to carry the bill as a co-sponsor. This was brought out recently in an article (http://www.contracostatimes.com/politics/ci_7241851) about a 'debate' between him and former Assemblyman Canciamilla.

Mark DeS has, according to other stuff I've seen, has long been a Friend of Brady.

[M. Sage]

Haha, Cavala claims that lead is the worst killer of condors? He didn't even bother to read those reports, did he? :rolleyes:

The real irony is that the NRA was initially an organization that protected hunting by promoting conservation. Now it lobbies for munitions makers at the expense of conservation claiming that “science” doesn’t back the argument that lead poisoning is the leading cause of death in wild Condors. (It is!).

Power lines and forest fires killed more condors than lead!!!

Funny... the NRA was trying to protect hunting here. I sure as hell can't afford to hunt in CA now. I guess I'll take my license fees over the state line. Bummer for CA: that's less money to put toward conservation programs. I know I won't be the only one, either.

The science done so far doesn't back the assertion that the lead from ammunition is even causing the condor lead poisoning! This guy is so full of crap.

What the hell is he a doctor of, anyway? I can't believe how easy it must be to get a doctorate that this guy has one.

[bwiese]

What the hell is he a doctor of, anyway? I can't believe how easy it must be to get a doctorate that this guy has one.

Political science, Berkeley, I believe.

That and journalism are pretty easy majors to sleep thru and get your ticket, though Cavala is pretty bright guy (in terms of winning elections in districts that already tilt liberal).

However, anthropologists are beginning to study the origins of his "Moe" haircut.

[bwiese]

but those that fought 1471 did so ineffectively on the wrong grounds.

Stator,

Please describe what you felt went wrong other than this GOC-added drama.

We *know* we had the veto in the bag till "our friends" shot us in the foot. How were we then ineffective?

Fortunately 1471 language about patents will likely make it unimplementable except perhaps in very distant future.

[bulgron]

Fortunately 1471 language about patents will likely make it unimplementable except perhaps in very distant future.

Is it possible that this is the reason why Ahhhnold thought it okay to sign the bill as payback? Sort of a meaningless, if rude, gesture?

[bwiese]

Is it possible that this is the reason why Ahhhnold thought it okay to sign the bill as payback? Sort of a meaningless, if rude, gesture?

I don't think so. I don't think he did any analysis himself - this was a personal reaction.

His staff legislative team had already recommended vetoing it - for any of a variety of reasons (some practical, some political).

[tyrist]

I do not think the companies that have the patents are going to just give them away so unless the government purchases the patent and gives it away, the bill is worthless.

[Crazed_SS]

Political science, Berkeley, I believe.

That and journalism are pretty easy majors to sleep thru and get your ticket, though Cavala is pretty bright guy (in terms of winning elections in districts that already tilt liberal).

However, anthropologists are beginning to study the origins of his "Moe" haircut.

Hey! I'm a political science student! :( But you're right, it is an easy major.
I think it's a good subject to study so that you can understand why things work like they do. Once you can understand how the system works, you can work within that system to get what you want.

[Addax]

I don't think so. I don't think he did any analysis himself - this was a personal reaction.

His staff legislative team had already recommended vetoing it - for any of a variety of reasons (some practical, some political).

Maybe Arnold wanted to show the public (and especially the Anti Gun Establishment) that he was doing something to continue to heavily regulate firearms and to keep enforcing gun control in California..?

A little bit of PR??

We all know that this Micro-Stamping stuff is for the birds, but most of the general public who are not into firearms don't, and could see this as a progressive measure to help prevent crime etc..

[stator]

Stator,
Please describe what you felt went wrong other than this GOC-added drama.


Easy, what we in politics call sunshine. Take MTBE for example, all the rhetoric about environmental damage and pollution did not get much movement out of our state politicians to ban it. In the end, it was sunshine on the patent holder who was making billions on it, and the political favors to get MTBE approved by CARB as an acceptable oxygenate - i.e. board room appointments to our state politician's relatives.

In the end, the patent holder did not want that much sunshine and gave the green light to our state politicians to move against MTBE.


We *know* we had the veto in the bag till "our friends" shot us in the foot. How were we then ineffective?


Your *friends* are probably not my friends. When you work in political science field, you will learn that friends and politicians are an oxymoron. There are only politicians and alliances which can be very fluid.


Fortunately 1471 language about patents will likely make it unimplementable except perhaps in very distant future.

Does not matter as the MTBE matter shows us that. It is just that there are two key patent holders for micro-stamping technology. Ammo and firearms manufacturers will have to pay royalties to either one as a condition to do business. It is really nothing more than government-sponsored private industry taxing.

The good news here is that these people, just like the MTBE people still need to live in the shadows even after the bill becomes chaptered. So the sunshine strategy is still effective.

[bwiese]

In the end, the patent holder did not want that much sunshine and gave the green light to our state politicians to move against MTBE.


Since this is a 'small' issue (i.e., not state budget, healthcare, etc.) it ain't getting much attention.

I think Lizzotte would actually like the free advertising. He's got something to sell.



Your *friends* are probably not my friends. When you work in political science field, you will learn that friends and politicians are an oxymoron. There are only politicians and alliances which can be very fluid.

The term 'friends' I used was in quotes to mean 'not friends' - meaning CRPA and GOC who cocked this up.

Again, we KNOW these 2 bills would have been vetoed if GOC (+CRPA) didn't add the drama.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

While, Dr. Cavala's personal animosity for the NRA doesnt allow him to express the entire truth, he does wax about the as did Bwiese earlier

So Cavala is blaming the NRA when it was actually GOC that did this? Does Cavala do this intentionally or unintentionally?

[M. Sage]

He's not blaming NRA, he's taunting us.

Besides, haven't you realized that to antis, any pro-gun anything is "the industry lobby - the NRA."