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View Full Version : New Obama hope artist posters link gun owners to Satan


LuvLRBs
03-31-2013, 5:54 AM
I've never tried a link before, hope this works:

http://rt.com/usa/shepard-fairey-gun-control-061/

This guy did the Obama hope poster and has now produced posters linking gun owners to Satan. The propaganda machine is clearly in full swing. These things are vile.

If the link doesn't work can somebody help fix it?

mow
03-31-2013, 6:02 AM
He was sued in Federal court over that Obama hope poster. I doubt this was funded by the WH.

You should rename the thread.. this is not a new obama poster.

keenkeen
03-31-2013, 6:16 AM
He was sued in Federal court over that Obama hope poster. I doubt this was funded by the WH.

You should rename the thread.. this is not a new obama poster.

Come on...why should the lame stream media be the only ones who get to write completely misleading headlines?

waffmaster
03-31-2013, 6:17 AM
I think I will ignore the poster to avoid giving more fame to the guy behind it.

LuvLRBs
03-31-2013, 6:23 AM
How do I edit the title?

Ed_Hazard
03-31-2013, 6:27 AM
I think I'm more offended by him putting that AK muzzle brake on an AR.

Ed_Hazard
03-31-2013, 6:28 AM
How do I edit the title?

You need to hit edit, then "go advance" to change the title.

SanPedroShooter
03-31-2013, 6:28 AM
Its one of those 'AK15's in the picture. Seriously.

This is from the OBEY guys. So....

Gun Control? OBEY. Maybe its irony?

That is the one thing I cant square about all these 'progressives' and occupy whiners. How does forcing state 'gun control' (at government gun point) fit into being a leftist 'occupier'?

Does no one else see a serious contradiction there?

I grew up in a lot of anti authoritarian sub-cultures, skateboarders, punk rockers, graffiti writers etc.. I never heard anyone talk about using violence to disarm people....

Must be an Obama generation thing. I cant wrap my head around it.

Dantedamean
03-31-2013, 7:01 AM
The propaganda machine continues.

russt
03-31-2013, 7:02 AM
obviously he speaks of 2 topics he knows absolutely nothing about, firearms and christianity, that makes him completely ignorant! at least he knows how to use his freedom of speech!

SanPedroShooter
03-31-2013, 7:05 AM
Yup. A 762x39 AR SBR with a Krinkov break! Very nice setup. Accurate platform, effective muzzle and an ideal round. Either he is just too dumb or a hardcore well-thought out gunny.

Ha ha, you could see it that way... ;)

Another question I have, why are smart people so stupid sometimes? Didnt he learn his lesson after the 'HOPE' (Oh sweet holy jesus, what a JOKE) debacle?

Does he not have the internet? Cant this ripoff artist not google (Happy Ceaser Chaves birthday BTW, sorry Jesus) an AR15?

Thats more than one question.

Tanner68
03-31-2013, 7:07 AM
The best thing would be if we could take his imagery and tweak it and turn it around into a pro 2A message. That would be sweet justice for Mr. Obey.

BrianRodela
03-31-2013, 7:33 AM
I always found this one to be the best, especially because it was in a children's movie!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff25/coastermek/image_zps646d242f.jpg

Doheny
03-31-2013, 8:04 AM
The best thing would be if we could take his imagery and tweak it and turn it around into a pro 2A message. That would be sweet justice for Mr. Obey.

We want to tweak his message which falls under the 1A and but we get mad when people try to tweak our 2A message?

I see some irony there.

LuvLRBs
03-31-2013, 8:09 AM
We want to tweak his message which falls under the 1A and but we get mad when people try to tweak our 2A message?

I see some irony there.

When one has the bully pulpit and power of that office they should use 1A to go after the bad guys and not to demonize those who responsibly exercise 2A rights. And with rows of children behind him.

dieselpower
03-31-2013, 8:09 AM
This is how Hitler turned a normal Country with reasonable people into a mass murder machine bent on the extermination of a select group of people.

Not joking. Many Anti-gun folk wouldn't think twice about allowing the .gov to toss us all into a "camp" for their protection, and what happened to us after that wouldn't really come up in the debate on whether to do it or not. Out of site, out of mind.

supermanuf
03-31-2013, 8:15 AM
Guess he hasn't read http://www.assaultweapon.info lol

LuvLRBs
03-31-2013, 8:20 AM
We want to tweak his message which falls under the 1A and but we get mad when people try to tweak our 2A message?

I see some irony there.

And as for Mr. Obey artist, he has 1A rights like everyone else. But our 2A message just attempts to preserve our rights and not exert control over anyone else's constitutional rights. His 1A message is directed at wanting to take away rights, so it is absolutely not the same thing!

bodger
03-31-2013, 8:21 AM
“We live in statistically the safest time in human history, so the idea one would need an assault weapon for self defense is ridiculous.”

Then why worry about gun control? There are millions of assault weapons already out there and we're safer than ever according to his opinion.

Demonicspire
03-31-2013, 8:22 AM
He's free to make whatever he wants. We're equally free to call him an idiot over it.

IVC
03-31-2013, 8:31 AM
Not particularly offensive and not well executed. Oh, well. No different than occupiers talking about how to run a business, or Rosie O'Donnell handing out exercise and healthy eating tips.

tankarian
03-31-2013, 8:35 AM
This is how Hitler turned a normal Country with reasonable people into a mass murder machine bent on the extermination of a select group of people.

Not joking. Many Anti-gun folk wouldn't think twice about allowing the .gov to toss us all into a "camp" for their protection, and what happened to us after that wouldn't really come up in the debate on whether to do it or not. Out of site, out of mind.

Liberals are vile, hateful creatures. The true descendants of fascists and communists.

JMP
03-31-2013, 8:47 AM
http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/obama-jesus-lamb.jpg

majtom94
03-31-2013, 8:59 AM
Ok flame me, but I like the one with the gun hanging with 2A solutions
the line reads its not the bullet with my name on it that scares me it the one with to whom it may concern.

I know I'm missing something but to me its the bullet with my name is a known dispute or intended target....the one with to whom it may concern is like Government we know best and your need to follow, its indiscriminate etc.

The second art work seems anti-government. Ok help me see the light.

Shotgun Man
03-31-2013, 9:16 AM
I thought the guy was a respected artist. Setting his message aside, the execution is juvenile. Equating gunnies to Satan suggests the author is mentally unhinged. His poster serves to undermine the anti gun position, illustrating them all to be lunatics.

tankarian
03-31-2013, 9:31 AM
Typical liberal hypocrite:


Acclaimed street artist Shepard Fairey has been sentenced to two years’ probation and asked to pay a $25,000 fine after being found guilty of criminal contempt in a case involving his now iconic “HOPE” image adopted by Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign.


Fairey, 42, pleaded guilty back in February to one count of criminal contempt for destroying documents, manufacturing evidence and other misconduct, the Los Angeles Times reports.
I'm sure he was the neocons and Fox News who framed him...and even if he wasn't framed, he did all that "for the greater good" and "for the children"

myk
03-31-2013, 9:33 AM
Not that I care about this fool, but the Federal case regarding his "doctoring" of an AP photo to create that Hope poster is ridiculous; how do you copyright a photo? It's not as if other people couldn't dream up an image that looks like a photo taken by a photographer...

tankarian
03-31-2013, 9:40 AM
Not that I care about this fool, but the Federal case regarding his "doctoring" of an AP photo to create that Hope poster is ridiculous; how do you copyright a photo? It's not as if other people couldn't dream up an image that looks like a photo taken by a photographer...

Let me repeat that for you:

Fairey, 42, pleaded guilty back in February to one count of criminal contempt for destroying documents, manufacturing evidence and other misconduct, the Los Angeles Times reports.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/549408_10151443049649191_1729256835_n.jpg

Steve1968LS2
03-31-2013, 10:14 AM
He was sued in Federal court over that Obama hope poster. I doubt this was funded by the WH.

You should rename the thread.. this is not a new obama poster.

Well, if you have reading comprehension then the title makes sense..

I took it as "The 'Obama hope artist' has a new poster that links gun owners to Satan"

Not sure how deluded you need to be to see that saying that the WH funded this.. :shrug:

RonnieP
03-31-2013, 10:19 AM
http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/obama-jesus-lamb.jpg

That poor lamb is going to get bent over. :eek:

RRangel
03-31-2013, 10:26 AM
Really? This topic is a waste of space in the Second Amendment forum.

mt4design
03-31-2013, 10:48 AM
Not that I care about this fool, but the Federal case regarding his "doctoring" of an AP photo to create that Hope poster is ridiculous; how do you copyright a photo? It's not as if other people couldn't dream up an image that looks like a photo taken by a photographer...

As a creative professional, a copyright is the property of the person from whom the work originates.

AP, or it's associated photographers working as agents for the company, would retain the copyright and anyone who wishes to use the photo must pay based upon what ever license agreement is associated with it.

This goes for works of art, music, etc.

Such work has "Terms of Use" associated with it.

The guy could use the photo as inspiration in order to create a piece of art, but in these times it is very easy to simply use filter effects and a digital version of the original photo in an editing program to "create" art like the Hope poster.

See here for a tutorial on how to do it yourself (http://vector.tutsplus.com/tutorials/illustration/create-an-inspirational-vector-political-poster/)

This is what separates his work from someone like Andy Worhal (http://entertainmentguide.local.com/andy-warhol-painting-techniques-5469.html).

I've been plagiarized. It's an interesting conundrum.

On one hand, you know that someone appreciated your art so much they copied it. On the other, you know that someone didn't have enough professional respect to follow the law or the proper etiquette to create something original for their client and then got paid basically to steal your work.

Look on any AP photo. You'll see the proper associated copyright.

Find out more here.

http://www.apimages.com/uns/splash/default.aspx?url=legal/termsofuse.html

keenkeen
03-31-2013, 10:54 AM
Well, if you have reading comprehension then the title makes sense..

I took it as "The 'Obama hope artist' has a new poster that links gun owners to Satan"

Not sure how deluded you need to be to see that saying that the WH funded this.. :shrug:

LOL...Late to the party.

Sure it makes sense after the OP edited it as that poster suggested.

:43:

tankarian
03-31-2013, 10:56 AM
We want to tweak his message which falls under the 1A and but we get mad when people try to tweak our 2A message?

I see some irony there.


http://imageshack.us/a/img402/4384/felonc.png

mt4design
03-31-2013, 10:57 AM
Really? This topic is a waste of space in the Second Amendment forum.

It really isn't if the discussion is about the proper and responsible use of all rights including the First Amendment.

As a gun owner, we should be compelled to use our Second Amendment rights in a responsible manner.

The same can be said for artists who must work within the reasonable constraints of the law.

Is his new "work" a violation in any way of any reasonable constraint.

I would argue, no. Art should reflect society and it's associated issues, etc.

I do think he is hard at work at pushing his agenda and there is serious irony there.

He wants freedom of expression, but eventually if the propaganda he is invested in succeeds, we may all lose the ability to express anything outside the dictates of those in power.

That can be said for the antis too.

It is the epitome of irony that the guns that would be used to protect the rights of minorities whether they be of race, religion, sexual orientation, political ideology, etc. would be taken from the people who are committed to protecting their freedom.

Those minorities are always the people targeted for extermination in such regimes. Always.

Artists who create work for such totalitarian governments create because there is a government gun to their head, not because they have the freedom to express themselves.

SURVIVOR619
03-31-2013, 11:21 AM
Shepard Fairey is such a joke. Yeah, street artist turned uber elitist! He's just a rich hipster deluded that we "statistically live in the safest times"... You might, Shepard, in your elite fairy land...

bigred76
03-31-2013, 11:22 AM
I think I'm more offended by him putting that AK muzzle brake on an AR.

But not the AK magazine? Lmao.

artoaster
03-31-2013, 11:28 AM
I can appreciate the art although it stands as opposition to other art that could easily represent gun rights (or, anything for that matter) so, the guy is speaking for the people who if given what they want will simply be slaves themselves to the Obama nightmare which may be almost worse than communism or anything else in it's intention to "control" the individual.

He probably takes himself seriously which is the failing in his art. It should be a cartoon.

bohoki
03-31-2013, 11:32 AM
i do not see the meaning others are seeing but i got to say that if it did it would encourage some more liberals to join the ranks of the gun enthusiats

GoldenGateGunner
03-31-2013, 11:34 AM
Don't like this nation's gun culture?

Boo hoo :63: :rant:

Falconis
03-31-2013, 11:41 AM
Reminds me of a line in a movie. "How about this, you stop telling lies about me and I'll stop telling the truth about you."

pistol3
03-31-2013, 12:20 PM
Its one of those 'AK15's in the picture. Seriously.

This is from the OBEY guys. So....

Gun Control? OBEY. Maybe its irony?

That is the one thing I cant square about all these 'progressives' and occupy whiners. How does forcing state 'gun control' (at government gun point) fit into being a leftist 'occupier'?

Does no one else see a serious contradiction there?

I grew up in a lot of anti authoritarian sub-cultures, skateboarders, punk rockers, graffiti writers etc.. I never heard anyone talk about using violence to disarm people....

Must be an Obama generation thing. I cant wrap my head around it.

This is standard collectivist/progressive philosophy. Government violence is good when it is used to enforce the collectivist/progressive agenda. This has been going on for years. Do you think any progressive is going to bat an eye about putting a government boot on your neck to make sure you pay their taxes, obey their guns laws, use their fiat currency, stop at their suspicionless checkpoints, etc? Of course not.

Peter.Steele
03-31-2013, 1:46 PM
You know, here's my question ... if we live in what is "statistically" the "safest time ever," then why is he afraid of my guns?

Waffleobill
03-31-2013, 1:51 PM
[QUOTE=dieselpower;10964115]
Not joking. Many Anti-gun folk wouldn't think twice about allowing the .gov to toss us all into a "camp" for their protection, and what happened to us after that wouldn't really come up in the debate on whether to do it or not. Out of site, out of mind.[QUOTE]

FDR (the Libs Jesus before Obama arrived) locked up over a 100 thousand people (mostly US citizens) just for being of Japanese decent with little to no opposition in 1942.

LuvLRBs
03-31-2013, 1:54 PM
Really? This topic is a waste of space in the Second Amendment forum.

So let me make sure I understand. Stupid liberal articles attacking 2A are legitimate topics in this forum but visual posters, symbols, art work is not? Where in the rules is this?

No wonder there was a thread in off topics a few weeks ago about how a small group of belligerent aggressive posters in the 2A forum go out of their way to insult and intimidate other posters.

And if the two minutes you "wasted" here was so frustrating that you're all pissed off over it, what are you doing spending your super valuable preciously important time on an Internet forum anyway?

kick Z tail out
03-31-2013, 2:00 PM
He was sued in Federal court over that Obama hope poster. I doubt this was funded by the WH.

You should rename the thread.. this is not a new obama poster.

This is the grassroots activist propaganda machine Obama planned to unleash on gun owners. It's just his election propaganda machine retooled for a different purpose. This propaganda machine includes his mindless army of zombie Obamanites.

Doheny
03-31-2013, 2:40 PM
So let me make sure I understand. Stupid liberal articles attacking 2A are legitimate topics in this forum but visual posters, symbols, art work is not? Where in the rules is this?

No wonder there was a thread in off topics a few weeks ago about how a small group of belligerent aggressive posters in the 2A forum go out of their way to insult and intimidate other posters.

And if the two minutes you "wasted" here was so frustrating that you're all pissed off over it, what are you doing spending your super valuable preciously important time on an Internet forum anyway?

Hey junior, I realize you've been here all of four months and that makes you an expert in all things CalGuns, but we'll spend our time the way we want to and comment the way we want to.

wpage
03-31-2013, 2:49 PM
Who knows who is who?

jumbopanda
03-31-2013, 2:55 PM
That's a good thumb-over-bore grip he's got going on there. I wonder if he's a Magpul fan. :rofl:

phamkl
03-31-2013, 3:08 PM
The artist claims to understand the importance of upholding the Second Amendment, but believes that the right to bear arms should “not be unconditional” as technology evolves to create deadlier and more efficient high-capacity magazines and weapons. He calls ‘assault-style’ weapons ‘tools of aggression, not defense’.


Ugh. This crap again. I think it would blow their minds that Eugene Stoner created the AR15 over half a century ago. Men have been efficiently killing other men with guns since the Maxim machine gun.

And also, tools of aggression and tools of defense often look the same. That's because they're the same.

Unless one proscribes to the idea that rape victims should exercise "passive resistance."

jumbopanda
03-31-2013, 3:13 PM
Ugh. This crap again. I think it would blow their minds that Eugene Stoner created the AR15 over half a century ago. Men have been efficiently killing other men with guns since the Maxim machine gun.

And also, tools of aggression and tools of defense often look the same. That's because they're the same.

Unless one proscribes to the idea that rape victims should exercise "passive resistance."

Someone should ask him what he thinks the cutoff year should be for small arms technology available to civilians. If he says anything after 1919, he owes me a Thompson. :cool:

spddrcr
03-31-2013, 3:25 PM
A lot of you are missing the whole point on this. I have talked with fairey in great detail in the past, he never was very relevant as a street artist in the first place. he made a name for himself using stencils to tag various places. it wasn't that his designs (which were not his by the way) were good but rather that the size and magnitude as well as how many were done around the world. when he came on board to do the obama posters it was instant celebrity status for him. he got a book deal and actual gallery shows. Hell i even have a hand signed artist proof he gave me years ago.

lately where has he been? when was the last time you heard his name in the news? he has jumped on the anti gun bandwagon to try to make his name relevant again, the only problem is that it will just be a matter of time before the actual owners of the artwork he butchered to make his latest stuff come out of the wood work. the AP photo was not his first run in with plagiarism and im sure it wont be his last.

Blue Ridge Reef
03-31-2013, 3:37 PM
Ok flame me, but I like the one with the gun hanging with 2A solutions
the line reads its not the bullet with my name on it that scares me it the one with to whom it may concern.

I know I'm missing something but to me its the bullet with my name is a known dispute or intended target....the one with to whom it may concern is like Government we know best and your need to follow, its indiscriminate etc.

The second art work seems anti-government. Ok help me see the light.

I think he's referring to accidental shooting, carelessness, wanton violence, etc.

bwiese
03-31-2013, 5:48 PM
I love how he tries to associated gunrights with Christianity/religious right.

Most of you here know my feelings about guns.
Most of you here also know my feelings about religion & the religious right.

VW*Mike
03-31-2013, 5:57 PM
Shepard Fairey is a sellout hack of an artist. He was yesterday's news and old way before his HOPE poster gave him a brief revitalization. He is nothing shocking and his art is now ironic as he was originally a street artist who struck out against greed, corporationism, and political propaganda. Look no further then his original OBEY/big brother. Now he is just a rich, out of touch liberal douce peddling his "art" to zombie brained trustfund brats.

majtom94
03-31-2013, 8:47 PM
I think he's referring to accidental shooting, carelessness, wanton violence, etc.

Thanks for the assistance. :facepalm:

radioburning
03-31-2013, 9:16 PM
The first one is just plain boring.:sleeping: I actually like the artwork for the second one, except for the fact that it's supposed to be anti-gun. Shepard Fairey's just another dude who never grew out of the bleeding heart college liberal phase.

Khyber
03-31-2013, 9:50 PM
AK15 a new "hybrid" gun variant. :rolleyes:

Nick Justice
03-31-2013, 10:06 PM
It is incredibly clumsy. There is no real art in it.

It will probably fall by the wayside.

POLICESTATE
03-31-2013, 10:10 PM
I crap better art out after I wake up in the morning. Seriously, I really do.

mow
03-31-2013, 10:17 PM
Come on...why should the lame stream media be the only ones who get to write completely misleading headlines?
Two wrongs are still two wrongs. Its not that big of a deal but I was expecting something completely different when I first opened this thread. The posters arent even that great...

Well, if you have reading comprehension then the title makes sense..

I took it as "The 'Obama hope artist' has a new poster that links gun owners to Satan"

Not sure how deluded you need to be to see that saying that the WH funded this.. :shrug:
Class act steve.
Had the title stated what it does now when I posted earlier I would agree with you about a lack of reading comprehension on my part.
Had you read the original thread title you may have agreed with my post, sorry you missed it.

Beatone
03-31-2013, 10:30 PM
What an asshat.

rjpsb1
03-31-2013, 10:37 PM
This thread is still in 2A? Wow.

Eldraque
03-31-2013, 10:46 PM
LOL

POLICESTATE
03-31-2013, 10:56 PM
http://strang.newtomorrow.org/CGN/lsd.jpg

BigFatGuy
03-31-2013, 10:57 PM
I rather like the "2nd Amendment Solutions" poster... trim the company ID off the bottom and you'd have a pretty cool image.

CessnaDriver
03-31-2013, 11:09 PM
"Obama 'Change' poster artist infuriates gun advocates with his new work"

I'm "infuriated" over this? LOL!

Sorry, some sack o crap Obama worshiping dope artist isn't enough to get my goat.

pepsiaddict
04-01-2013, 12:30 AM
OBEY F****N SUCKS! its unoriginal,he makes money copying others but sues people for copying him.

http://www.art-for-a-change.com/Obey/index.htm

Shepard can you please stop copying Supreme.

Also,F**K karmaloop.

kimber_ss
04-01-2013, 1:28 AM
Wasn't he the guy doing performance art? Spotted doing a swan dive from a famous dictators cheeks into a porcelain bowl.

Have to be careful when you brown nose. You might get sucked in, just to be ejected at a later time.

Wherryj
04-01-2013, 3:51 PM
I've never tried a link before, hope this works:

http://rt.com/usa/shepard-fairey-gun-control-061/

This guy did the Obama hope poster and has now produced posters linking gun owners to Satan. The propaganda machine is clearly in full swing. These things are vile.

If the link doesn't work can somebody help fix it?

Seems only appropriate after the History Channel used Obama as their role model for Satan...Or was it the other way around?

Wherryj
04-01-2013, 4:02 PM
obviously he speaks of 2 topics he knows absolutely nothing about, firearms and christianity, that makes him completely ignorant! at least he knows how to use his freedom of speech!

...the irony is that he talks about two things about which he is totally ignorant using a medium with which he is totally ignorant. You should see the write ups about his lack of talent and plagiarism.

I have friends in the illustration field who have nothing good to say about this guy. He seems to be a no-talent hack who grabbed his 15 minutes of fame by pinning himself to the Obama campaign.

bomb_on_bus
04-02-2013, 4:22 AM
The guy is a convicted felon and was ordered to pay the AP some 1.6 million dollars after the fallout over the "hope" paintings.

This guy is a toxic liar who is just jumping on the band wagon again to push an agenda.

Its ironic that one of the most famous images from the 2008 presidental campaign came from a convicted felon.

bomb_on_bus
04-02-2013, 4:23 AM
I also laugh at the idea that this guy stands behind his 1stA rights to trample the 2ndA rights of others................ Idiot.

highpowermatch
04-02-2013, 9:58 AM
obviously he speaks of 2 topics he knows absolutely nothing about, firearms and Christianity, that makes him completely ignorant! at least he knows how to use his freedom of speech!

Exactly, love this one...

"The artist claims to understand the importance of upholding the Second Amendment, but believes that the right to bear arms should “not be unconditional” as technology evolves to create deadlier and more efficient high-capacity magazines and weapons. He calls ‘assault-style’ weapons ‘tools of aggression, not defense’."

So high cap magazines are new? And we are supposed to defend ourselves with 38 special revolvers against assault weapons? Sounds like a poor understanding of the 2nd amendment to me. Not that I am shocked. This guy is a total douche nozzle.

durandal
04-02-2013, 4:18 PM
FYI, i have a Design education.. And i didnt sleep through History class either.

To me, Fairey's "art" is nothing more than recycled communist iconography. His images are based on propaganda made by some of the most oppressive regimes in recent history.

I refuse to accept that his art is just an "ironic reference" to injustices in our society.

Fairey has made his career creating fascist stylized propaganda that: demands conformity "OBEY Giant"; worship of a political figure "HOPE Obama poster" and vilifies armed citizens of a free state (the most recent "artwork" in question)..

So I am convinced Fairey personally believes in the forms of social and political control that was used by the fascist/communist states that pioneered the propaganda style that he uses.

In short, Fairey, you are no longer welcome in my 'hood. North Korea may have a job opening for you.

durandal
04-02-2013, 4:20 PM
The guy is a convicted felon and was ordered to pay the AP some 1.6 million dollars after the fallout over the "hope" paintings.

This guy is a toxic liar who is just jumping on the band wagon again to push an agenda.

Its ironic that one of the most famous images from the 2008 presidental campaign came from a convicted felon.

Oh a felon.. Someone who cant touch a gun.. Right, i trust a felon to make decisions for me.