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AyatollahGondola
03-28-2013, 11:35 PM
Not that many people here know that much about Save Our State, but those that do see us as primarily concerned about illegal immigration. That's true to a large degree, but our agenda is actually broader than that, and encompasses many facets of state citizens rights, opportunities, and access. We do concern ourselves with making our government adhere to our constitution, respect our culture, and serve the interests of the citizen. I tell you this to give a little background as to why we might delve into the subject matter of this thread.

The order of succession is the designated order in which our state keeps running if, heaven forbid, a worst case catastrophe hits and renders our current elected officers unavailable. The governor is succeeded by the Lt. Governor of course, but if he gets it too, then it's the Senate Pro Tem. If he's gone, then it's the Speaker of The House. If he's out too, then it's the Secretary of state, and so on.

The above proscribed order is to succeed the governor. there is also an order for someone to succeed each of the first five constitutional officers. The secretary of State, the LT. Governor, the Attorney General, the State Treasurer, and the State Controller.

How does this concern 2A? Well, consider the scenario for a minute. There are countless SHTF threads on this forum, so it's not like we don't think about it. Many of us not only consider it, but also prepare for and expect it. We plan for our survival, and especially for our protection by stockpiling guns and ammo. But all that ammo does little good if you're government starts suppressing, forbidding, or siezing your firearms. Of course we have that problem already now to a degree, but in the event of something like a war caused disaster, that problem could amplify horribly. Right now, many of us are already somewhat paranoid about the intentions of our state Attorney General in regards to our firearms, but what happens if she's a casulty in a war caused disaster. Is it possible that a successor could be worse?

A successor could be infinitely worse. It is possible they might be better. But for better or for worse, that successor would be the official for all constitutional purposes until an election was held, or the state legislature convened in some manner. At present, the government code 12701 sets forth the order for succession for the first five constitutional officers below the governor. Each officer chooses several successors, and the order of their succession, submits those names to the secretary of state for records keeping, and to the state senate for confirmation.

If you think about it for a minute, those successors are going to be unelected, and accountable to no one as far as the electorate goes, and they'll be making decisions for a powerful office during an extremely crucial period for individual rights. The AG is the most worrisome for gun owners, so it might make a big difference to all who believe the SHTF is inevitable, who she picks as successors.

Save Our State did records requests on these officers to discover who they chose to step into their roles if war broke out and caught us blindsided. First thing we discovered was that for the first time in decades, none of the officers had fulfilled this requirement of their office. I reviewed these records personally, filtering through the choices of past office holders such as March Fong Eu, Gray Davis, Dan Lundgren, and so on. Not one of the current elected bunch had taken their duty seriously though, and we're well into the twilight of their terms. I will say one, the state treasurer, had fulfilled the requirement in his previous term, but not the current term, and it might be plausible to accept that one. Everyone else, no....
Personally I was a bit put out about this.

There's a thread on Save Our State that fleshes this quest out a bit as we attempt, with recent success, to get the recalcitrant officers to show us who they would assign our collective rights to in a state of emergency, and where they are presumably casulties. So far, one officer has stepped forward in compliance, and another responded with a bit of procrastination. Personally I want to know who they associate with in that regard, because I believe there is always a chance our world could collide with a disaster of epic proportion, and if posters on this forum can be believed, I'm not alone. The order of Succession is the hereafter of government. You don't have to even have faith in it for it to happen. Government seems to always happen, and it happens worse when you let it do so without your involvement:

http://saveourstate.info/showthread.php?t=6624

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 9:53 AM
I have updated the SOS thread to include the latest response from the Lt. Governor

Shotgun Man
03-29-2013, 11:13 AM
I would expect New Orleans style dysfunction in the event of a disaster. Even the ex-LAPD Dorner situation caused the police to shoot at the citizenry. Imagine their reaction given a greater event. Naming successors is likely not going to be helpful.

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 11:23 AM
I would expect New Orleans style dysfunction in the event of a disaster. Even the ex-LAPD Dorner situation caused the police to shoot at the citizenry. Imagine their reaction given a greater event. Naming successors is likely not going to be helpful.

Would you prefer a klingon type method of successorship, or something else?
Even New Orleans settled down, and until then they operated under the authority of the governor or the police, or the NG. The Attorney General would be the one prosecuting violations of your rights during that period, and would be consulting with the governor, and the feds on siezures.

Shotgun Man
03-29-2013, 11:32 AM
I like the Klingon reference.

Maybe that would be preferable to our current gov.

I jest.

Kid Stanislaus
03-29-2013, 3:51 PM
Am I the only one trying to figure out what the hell the OP is trying to accomplish with this post?:confused:

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 6:05 PM
Am I the only one trying to figure out what the hell the OP is trying to accomplish with this post?:confused:

Education for one. How many people even knew there was an order of succession in this state?

Second thing, and not necessarily in that order, is involvement in your government's plan for a catastrophe. Most of the posters here never get past the first few weeks or months after the big one hits with their plans. Those plans usually consist of food, water, shelter, and protection. Few, if anyone has ever mentined how they plan to deal with their government during or just after the disaster. But your government has a plan, and they've done it without your input lately. So many people complain about what happened in the aftermath of Katrina. Instead of putting up with illegal siezures, lawlessness, and anarchy, wouldn't it be better if you could cite off the top of your head who was supposed to be in charge, and what powers they have?

There's actually several other things, but those two are the ones that may affect your firearm rights if we suffer an attack and the existing heirarchy is wiped out.

bill_k_lopez
03-29-2013, 6:11 PM
So many people complain about what happened in the aftermath of Katrina. Instead of putting up with illegal siezures, lawlessness, and anarchy, wouldn't it be better if you could cite off the top of your head who was supposed to be in charge, and what powers they have?


Let me educate you on reality.

When you are surrounded by police officers with AR15's pointing at you and your wife and children demanding you turn over your firearms NOW - citing who is supposed to be in charge and what powers they have is really a moot point.

rootuser
03-29-2013, 6:17 PM
Let me educate you on reality.

When you are surrounded by police officers with AR15's pointing at you and your wife and children demanding you turn over your firearms NOW - citing who is supposed to be in charge and what powers they have is really a moot point.

Good call.

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 6:25 PM
Let me educate you on reality.

When you are surrounded by police officers with AR15's pointing at you and your wife and children demanding you turn over your firearms NOW - citing who is supposed to be in charge and what powers they have is really a moot point.

Good call.

Or you could organize, go to the seat of government, and demand they follow the law. But first you have to know it.

Paul S
03-29-2013, 8:32 PM
Let me educate you on reality.

When you are surrounded by police officers with AR15's pointing at you and your wife and children demanding you turn over your firearms NOW - citing who is supposed to be in charge and what powers they have is really a moot point.

If the day comes when there is forced confiscation of our firearms the government agents will be at our doors with a major show of force. The government will assure that show of force is so overwhelming only those who truly want to die will resist.

CitaDeL
03-29-2013, 9:00 PM
If the day comes when there is forced confiscation of our firearms the government agents will be at our doors with a major show of force. The government will assure that show of force is so overwhelming only those who truly want to die will resist.

In spite of a show of overwhelming force, ants like us out number the grasshoppers by factors of hundreds. If ever there is even the slimmest notion that someone is about to be raided, it is concievable that a Lexington confrontation could be orchestrated via modern Paul Revere... the text message.

(Though, this has no relevance to the OP....)

bill_k_lopez
03-29-2013, 9:05 PM
Or you could organize, go to the seat of government, and demand they follow the law. But first you have to know it.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

At what point when you are being held at gunpoint, in the middle of a disaster or crisis do you get to go to the seat of government and make demands?

Maybe you should get out more often and see what the real world is like.

bill_k_lopez
03-29-2013, 9:09 PM
Um - who said forced confiscation? OP specifically mentioned Katrina - you know - when they came and disarmed people and took their guns away from them.

-taU9d26wT4

If the day comes when there is forced confiscation of our firearms the government agents will be at our doors with a major show of force. The government will assure that show of force is so overwhelming only those who truly want to die will resist.

bill_k_lopez
03-29-2013, 9:11 PM
We aren't talking about "if the day comes" gov confiscating your guns.

OP specifically mentioned Katrina - you know - when they came and disarmed people and took their guns away from them during a disaster, and as I said - when you are being held at gunpoint and being told to hand over your weapons, knowing your rights and demanding your rights will just get you shot.


-taU9d26wT4

If the day comes when there is forced confiscation of our firearms the government agents will be at our doors with a major show of force. The government will assure that show of force is so overwhelming only those who truly want to die will resist.

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 10:23 PM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

At what point when you are being held at gunpoint, in the middle of a disaster or crisis do you get to go to the seat of government and make demands?

If I may ask; Why bother with a gun or gun forum then? I mean, if you believe it's all for naught, and the government is too powerful to challenge, who needs a gun then?

I don't know that the state would immediately start siezing firearms if there was a war caused disaster. What preceedes that is an order to do so. What precedes that is someone taking power. That is where you get involved first, much like you do now to weigh in on legislation or executive order. You challenge the legalities. But first you must know them.

Maybe you should get out more often and see what the real world is like
I get out a lot more than your average American, and a little more than most activists.

AyatollahGondola
03-29-2013, 11:24 PM
In spite of a show of overwhelming force, ants like us out number the grasshoppers by factors of hundreds. If ever there is even the slimmest notion that someone is about to be raided, it is concievable that a Lexington confrontation could be orchestrated via modern Paul Revere... the text message.

(Though, this has no relevance to the OP....)

Under the scenario of a war caused disaster, which was at the heart of this law, texting would likely be unavailable. :)

AyatollahGondola
06-19-2013, 4:16 PM
In light of what is happening with the AB76 and SB71 bills that can have a very crippling effect on public records, I thought I'd update you all on this effort. Thus far, since we started this quest, Kamala Harris and Debra Bowen have filed the required documents naming successors. John Chaing dismissed it entirely, I drafted another letter and carried it to his office. The letter was a reminder that he had failed to respond to the PRA as required, and was over two months past the last request. Since then, he responded with an answer that stated he has no such record.
The Lt. Governor, Newsome, has failed to answer the PRA, and all follow ups, even after phone calls and personal visits to that office. They know about it, but don't want to do it. On a side note, Chaing's office is on the umpteenth floor, and for reasons I won't go in to here, I refused to take the elevator up, and the building management has locked all stairway access. They sent an attorney down to meet me.

The public records law has not changed yet. Two of the state's highest constitutionally elected officers don't think it applies to them

cadurand
06-19-2013, 6:20 PM
I for one love it when our elected officials are made to follow the rules.

Any idea why they don't want to provide successors? Other than laziness?

stonefly-2
06-19-2013, 6:46 PM
I for one love it when our elected officials are made to follow the rules.

Any idea why they don't want to provide successors? Other than laziness?

maybe they know something we don't.

AyatollahGondola
06-19-2013, 8:25 PM
I for one love it when our elected officials are made to follow the rules.

Any idea why they don't want to provide successors? Other than laziness?

No, I don't. They may have thought it unnecessary because the russians aren't threatening us like they used to, or maybe they just don't like it when they get reminded of a task they're required to do by lowly pissants like us.
I can see how the AG, controller, and Secty of state might have gotten busy, and didn't want to be bothered, but Newsome?...C'mon...he doesn't do squat. A whimsical thought is that he's auctioning off the spots to contributors for his campaign chest. He could name anyone for christ sakes, and what lavishly rich fool wouldn't like to brag about being the next heir apparent to the second highest office under the dome if the SHTF. If you were a gazillionaire, would you think about handing over 10k for bragging rights like that?

maybe they know something we don't.

Of course they do, but that's well beyond the scope of a PRA ;)

caoboy
06-19-2013, 8:38 PM
. On a side note, Chaing's office is on the umpteenth floor, and for reasons I won't go in to here, I refused to take the elevator up, and the building management has locked all stairway access. They sent an attorney down to meet me.

Isn't that a EMS/Safety violation?

You should bring that up.

AyatollahGondola
06-19-2013, 8:44 PM
Isn't that a EMS/Safety violation?

You should bring that up.

They claimed that the fire department passed them on an inspection. I'm looking into that

jeffrice6
06-19-2013, 9:39 PM
If it wasn't so sad, it be comical ~

1681
06-19-2013, 10:38 PM
I can't wait to see them disappear...

Prepared people will do just fine without them...

sdsguy87
06-19-2013, 10:42 PM
They claimed that the fire department passed them on an inspection. I'm looking into that

You would just need to be able to exit out from it. I'm sure the upper floors permit access into the stair well and once in the stairwell you can probably exit out at any point. But on the main floor they'll want to limit your ability of travel to secure the area. Why have 2 places that must be secured when you only need to have 1? Basically, on the bottom floor maintain one form of entry to upper floors while anyone above can come down the stairs.

giantsfan650
06-20-2013, 12:37 AM
When Gov. Schwarzenegger was in office, he placed a little known provision in the California Emergency Services Act, authored after the Katrina confiscation mess, which basically states that if you aren't being arrested, a law enforcement officer or peace officer CANNOT take your weapon. Look it up.

Basically, I'm riding that out.

Meplat
06-20-2013, 2:24 AM
The value of knowing successors lies in having the ability to asses ahead of time what their actions and reactions might be in a crises. It may not help if a dynamic entry team is at your door, but it may help you evaluate weather one is likely to show up.

1681
06-20-2013, 9:42 AM
as proven by Katrina, everyone, including local and state governments will be SOL until the fed can provide relief.

in a major disaster, most will not be able or willing to help someone else until their own is taken care of, regardless of what the plan was.

if there was a major disaster in CA, I doubt communication systems will be able to handle the load for them to coordinate "raids", especially if they have not put their plan into regular practice.

I know many companies spent tons of money on disaster recovery plan and try to practice them, only to find they can't even handle a simple un-planned power outage many times over...

AyatollahGondola
06-20-2013, 2:23 PM
as proven by Katrina, everyone, including local and state governments will be SOL until the fed can provide relief.

in a major disaster, most will not be able or willing to help someone else until their own is taken care of, regardless of what the plan was.

if there was a major disaster in CA, I doubt communication systems will be able to handle the load for them to coordinate "raids", especially if they have not put their plan into regular practice.

I know many companies spent tons of money on disaster recovery plan and try to practice them, only to find they can't even handle a simple un-planned power outage many times over...

California has gone beyond just this part of successorship. After another PRA, I just received notice that the muni I live in has a similar plan. I'm supposed to be given access to the records friday, but the state legislature empowered them to enable this plan. Point being, I think the government is a bit farther ahead on this than you think

Doheny
06-20-2013, 8:23 PM
Am I the only one trying to figure out what the hell the OP is trying to accomplish with this post?:confused:

What he said. /\

Also, isn't Save Our State (the site the OP links to) considered a borderline hate group? I believe at one time SPLC considered them so.


Save Our State (SOS) is an activist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activism) organization opposed to illegal immigration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration) in Southern California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_California). The group also has a chapter in Northern California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_California). The organization's methodology revolves around the 'transference of pain' and it has been described as a hate group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group) by the Southern Poverty Law Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center).


The Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Our_State) above refers to Saveourstate.org and the OP's link goes to Saveourstate.info, but me thinks that's a bit too much of a coincidence.

EDIT: In this post (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=10728303&postcount=21) the OP confirms that the group was on SPLC's hate group list.

.

AyatollahGondola
06-20-2013, 9:08 PM
What he said. /\

Also, isn't Save Our State (the site the OP links to) considered a borderline hate group? I believe at one time SPLC considered them so.



The Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Our_State) above refers to Saveourstate.org and the OP's link goes to Saveourstate.info, but me thinks that's a bit too much of a coincidence.

EDIT: In this post (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=10728303&postcount=21) the OP confirms that the group was on SPLC's hate group list.

.

So. SPLC casts rocks at just about anyone who opposes illegal immigration, distrusts the government, advocates for gun rights, and on and on.
I'll tell you that we, SOS, sucessfully lobbied to have the SPLC's name stricken from a resolution the board of supervisors adopted in Sac, over their credibility.
And yes; it's not mere coincidence. The .org website was mired in a conflict with one of the previous managment, so we moved it.
Borderline hate group....:D That's a bit comical given many of us were previous border watch activists