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View Full Version : Illegal to CCW in Walnut Creek....


sfpcservice
03-28-2013, 4:49 PM
I was looking up a Municipal Code for a parking ticket and came acrow the "Weapons" section. The 1st stop in this section seems to outlaw any form of Concealed Carry, licensed or not:

3-6.01 Concealing Weapons

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry concealed upon his person or in a vehicle and not in view therein any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; or any straight edge razor or a razor fitted to a handle; or any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting serious bodily injury. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry concealed upon his person or in a vehicle and not in view therein an air gun, air rifle or other gun or device capable of discharging by the use of powder, air or springs, any bullet or object, except if transported in a manner consistent with California Penal Code §12026.1. (3400, and by §1, Ord. 1928, eff. 8/20/98.)

The exemption of 12026.1 listed above covers weapons locked in a trunk or utility compartment. They may be in need of a harsh letter from CGF....

Lugiahua
03-28-2013, 4:52 PM
The only reason that no one noticed it till now is because Contra Costa doesn't give average citizen CCW at all...

safewaysecurity
03-28-2013, 4:56 PM
Interesting. Pretty sure state pre-emption applies here.

Obviously a Plant
03-28-2013, 4:57 PM
hmmm, looks like that would include most car-jack handles and tire irons too, hard to lock-up in a truck or a hatchback. Imagine all the criminal Volvo drivers swarming the streets....

Lugiahua
03-28-2013, 4:57 PM
btw, according to this code, wouldn't that make it illegal for anyone with a pocket knife of scissors?
so all those Target and Honda workers next to Walnut Creek PD are violating codes? lol

stich
03-28-2013, 4:58 PM
May be wrong, but......... I believe my CA CCW entitle me to carry in any town or city in the state, limited only to what restrictions are on my license. Don't believe it would hold up in court, if arrested.

Right or wrong?

sfpcservice
03-28-2013, 5:00 PM
May be wrong, but......... I believe my CA CCW entitle me to carry in any town or city in the state, limited only to what restrictions are on my license. Don't believe it would hold up in court, if arrested.

Right or wrong?

It won't slow me down any.....

Librarian
03-28-2013, 5:03 PM
It probably will take a nice letter, or a court case, but I would expect this to be held inapplicable to LTC holders.

Might need to be the test case, though.

nullman
03-28-2013, 5:04 PM
Perhaps, but where are you and where is your firearm while you are waiting for it to 'hold up in court'?


May be wrong, but......... I believe my CA CCW entitle me to carry in any town or city in the state, limited only to what restrictions are on my license. Don't believe it would hold up in court, if arrested.

Right or wrong?

Fjold
03-28-2013, 5:13 PM
It hasn't stopped me from CC'ing there.

CitaDeL
03-28-2013, 5:22 PM
It probably will take a nice letter, or a court case, but I would expect this to be held inapplicable to LTC holders.

Might need to be the test case, though.

Have gun, will travel...

turinreza
03-28-2013, 5:28 PM
Don't worry. Jesus was a criminal who violated a bunch of judiac laws and got killed for it. We are all guilty of some crime via a law made by man.

Bill Carson
03-28-2013, 5:32 PM
Don't worry. Jesus was a criminal who violated a bunch of judiac laws and got killed for it. We are all guilty of some crime via a law made by man.

Yeah that didn't happen.

ZirconJohn
03-28-2013, 5:41 PM
It is illegal to CCW in any City, Town, Village or public street in the State of Cubafornia...

Unless one possesses a valid License To Carry (LTC).

Same with operating a motor vehicle... it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle, in this God forgiven forsaken State of condemnation, without a valid Cubafornia Drivers License (CDL).

See... the 'License' makes it legal... yes...? :yes:

Now... I may be wrong :shrug: But... I nooooo think so Lucyyyyyyy... :laugh:

EDIT :rolleyes: complete... thank you... :)

sfpcservice
03-28-2013, 6:31 PM
Yeah that didn't happen.

So we're all just a cosmic coincidence? Someone once said that would be like a tornado ripping through a junk yard of airplane parts and leaving a perfectly assembled 747 in it's wake. Could happen.... :cool:

gwgn02
03-28-2013, 7:07 PM
Uhm if you CCW who knows you have it? Just carry and be a good citizen, and don't flash it around. Some laws are meant to be broken. Too many psycho, drug addict, gang bangin' fools to leave home without heat.

Ron-Solo
03-28-2013, 8:04 PM
Uhm if you CCW who knows you have it? Just carry and be a good citizen, and don't flash it around. Some laws are meant to be broken. Too many psycho, drug addict, gang bangin' fools to leave home without heat.

Please don't advocate the illegal carrying of firearms in this forum.

sfpcservice
03-28-2013, 8:21 PM
Please don't advocate the illegal carrying of firearms in this forum.

It's not illegal if the law in question is in and of itself illegal.

OleCuss
03-28-2013, 8:25 PM
Please don't advocate the illegal carrying of firearms in this forum.

Ron:

Your point is good and I endorse it.

In this case, however, pre-emption means that the local ordinance is invalid.

I don't believe it is illegal to carry in that municipality despite the wording of the local ordinance.

Still, if you don't have to go there, why not avoid the place? And if I had to go there I'd probably choose not to carry there since the local LEA may not understand that the municipal code is invalid and arrest me anyway - and even if I win in court it is going to be painful and expensive.

dawgcasa
03-28-2013, 8:26 PM
It is illegal to CCW in any City, Town, Village or public street in the State of Cubafornia...

Unless one possesses a valid License To Carry (LTC).

Same with operating a motor vehicle... it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle, in this God forgiven State of condemnation, without a valid Cubafornia Drivers License (CDL).

See... the 'License' makes it legal... yes...? :yes:

Now... I may be wrong :shrug: But... I nooooo think so Lucyyyyyyy... :laugh:

I think you meant "God forsaken", not "God forgiven".

ZirconJohn
03-28-2013, 8:56 PM
I think you meant "God forsaken", not "God forgiven".

Ahhh-hhahhaaaaaa... yes... that is correct... I had 'forsaken' the correct usaledge of the phrase, see edit above, thanks :yes:

John1960
03-28-2013, 9:06 PM
Is this Municipal Code an Infraction or Misdemeanor? Most muni codes are infractions. And if it is an Infraction what is the fine? In summary, what is the punishment?

JimWest
03-28-2013, 9:14 PM
?.. or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting serious bodily injury...

Jeez! I can't even take my penis to Walnut Creek! Screw them!

Jet Setter
03-28-2013, 9:23 PM
I am fairly sure LTC holders are exempt.

Bill Carson
03-29-2013, 12:13 AM
So we're all just a cosmic coincidence? Someone once said that would be like a tornado ripping through a junk yard of airplane parts and leaving a perfectly assembled 747 in it's wake. Could happen.... :cool:
Jesus did not break judaic or mosaic laws.

Lugiahua
03-29-2013, 1:09 AM
I think you meant "God forsaken", not "God forgiven".

pretty good timing consider it's Good Friday..

gwgn02
03-29-2013, 8:02 AM
Please don't advocate the illegal carrying of firearms in this forum.

Nope. ill speak my mind on what I want thank you

sfpcservice
03-29-2013, 8:07 AM
Jesus did not break judaic or mosaic laws.

There I go... half cocked again! :-)

ap3572001
03-29-2013, 8:26 AM
When a person I am talking to has a valid Ca CCW ( and they have a handgun on their person), I can't , won't and have no reason to arrest them . What's the point ? And what would be the charge???

And if I did arrest a person with a gun AND a current CCW, my administration will be very unhappy with me.

PS. My close friend (not an LEO) has a CCW. He lives in Concord and carries in WC all the time.

ZirconJohn
03-29-2013, 9:11 AM
When a person I am talking to has a valid Ca CCW ( and they have a handgun on their person), I can't , won't and have no reason to arrest them . What's the point ? And what would be the charge???

And if I did arrest a person with a gun AND a current CCW, my administration will be very unhappy with me.

PS. My close friend (not an LEO) has a CCW. He lives in Concord and carries in WC all the time.

See there... nothing to worry about...

It's all in the word 'License' - James Bond has a License to kill, he kills people all the time in his movies.

I have a License to carry [concealed]... I carry concealed. And I keep my mouth shut about it.

Is it a License to kill...? NO...!

It is a License for Personal Protection should my life be in imminent danger of peril. And that is all I have to say about that.

OleCuss
03-29-2013, 9:21 AM
Just want to make sure that everyone understands. Ron Solo is, IMHO, very bright, very informed, and an ardent supporter of the RKBA. I consider him to be a great asset for freedom.

I may disagree with him a bit on this one, but his caution is a good one which we should all take to heart. We should never advocate for law-breaking on this forum (or probably any other) as that will tend to harm the cause of freedom.

He did not tell anyone that they could not, he said they should not. He gave a recommendation, not a command.

call-in
03-29-2013, 9:24 AM
3-6.01 Concealing Weapons

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry concealed upon his person or in a vehicle and not in view therein any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; or any straight edge razor or a razor fitted to a handle; or any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting serious bodily injury. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry concealed upon his person or in a vehicle and not in view therein an air gun, air rifle or other gun or device capable of discharging by the use of powder, air or springs, any bullet or object, except if transported in a manner consistent with California Penal Code §12026.1. (3400, and by §1, Ord. 1928, eff. 8/20/98.)

So nerf guns would be illegal to carry in backpacks or pockets? How about straws with their wrappers?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8YQWUzfvxVM/TXcxsTg1-xI/AAAAAAAAACU/ae8OaMa-Txc/s1600/BW-002.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oRXwensoRM0/TXP6XqbtzGI/AAAAAAAAFfc/3IRtinmhTQk/s1600/IMG_6104.jpg

CSACANNONEER
03-29-2013, 9:33 AM
Straws with or without wrappers are nothing but blow guns which are already a felony to possess in CA.

winnre
03-29-2013, 9:37 AM
I carry an overnight bag in the trunk, it has basic items in case I end up elsewhere for the night. I have a razor in there too!

billofrights
03-29-2013, 9:48 AM
Only on CG does someone start a thread about CCW and it gets turned into a theosophical debate.

Regardless of what you believe or don't believe, Jesus of Nazareth WAS a historical figure, put to death by crucifixtion. Nobody is asking you to believe he was the messiah, but those are facts.

Anonymous Coward
03-29-2013, 9:50 AM
That code would make carrying an otherwise legal folding knife in your pocket a violation. That must be thousands of people who violate this on a daily basis.

Kukuforguns
03-29-2013, 12:08 PM
The following is not meant to be a definitive answer (rather it discusses how a prosecutor might view the issue) and does not constitute legal advice. Get a lawyer if you want legal advice.

Under California law, it is (generally) illegal to carry a loaded gun in public and is (generally) illegal to carry a concealed firearm in public. Pen. Code §§ 25400, 25850. The Penal Code explicitly exempts people with California licenses to carry from the effect of section 25400 and 25850:

§ 25655.
Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, the carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150).

§ 26010.
Section 25850 does not apply to the carrying of any handgun by any person as authorized pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5.

Please note that this is different than stating that a LTC gives the person a right to carry a concealed weapon. These sections state that sections 25400 and 25850 do not apply to a person with an LTC. Moreover, Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 does not state the effects of a LTC, instead these sections set forth the procedures for issuing a LTC. Given that a LTC exempts a person from application of section 25400 and 25850, an argument could be made by a prosecutor that a LTC does not exempt a person from application of the local ordinance referenced in the OP.

The next issue is whether the California Legislature has preempted local laws regulating the concealed carry of weapons.

(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a handgun within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.

Cal. Penal Code § 25605
This statute prohibits local jurisdictions from enacting laws that prohibit people (non-prohibited people) from owning/possessing/carrying a gun in that person’s home or place of business. Fiscal v. City & County of San Francisco, 158 Cal. App. 4th 895, 909, 70 Cal. Rptr. 3d 324, 334 (2008). The local ordinance referenced in the OP does not appear to run afoul of section 25605(b) because it applies to areas other than the residence/place of business.

It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in Section 1721 of the Labor Code.
Cal. Gov't Code § 53071

This statute relates to the registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms. If this statute is interpreted narrowly, it might not apply to a LTC, because a LTC does not register or license the firearm, but instead licenses the person.

Finally, an argument could be made that sections 25400, 25850, and 26150 et seq. impliedly preempt the local ordinance referenced in the OP. The Court of Appeal previously has held that a local ordinance prohibiting the sale of Saturday Night Special handguns was not preempted by California law. California Rifle & Pistol Assn. v. City of W. Hollywood, 66 Cal. App. 4th 1302, 1306, 78 Cal. Rptr. 2d 591, 593 (1998). Given the holding of City of W. Hollywood, a prosecutor could make an argument that the local ordinance referenced in the OP is not preempted by California law.

Again, this was not meant to be an analysis of the validity of the ordinance referenced in the OP, but rather a description of what a prosecutor might argue if the prosecutor wanted to prosecute.

BigPimping
03-29-2013, 1:01 PM
I cannot have a pellet gun in my car or a Kershaw in my pocket???? ROFL!!!!!! I live next to that city!!!!!

Kid Stanislaus
03-29-2013, 3:13 PM
Don't worry. Jesus was a criminal who violated a bunch of judiac laws and got killed for it. We are all guilty of some crime via a law made by man.

And this means exactly WHAT?:confused:

Kid Stanislaus
03-29-2013, 3:14 PM
So we're all just a cosmic coincidence? Someone once said that would be like a tornado ripping through a junk yard of airplane parts and leaving a perfectly assembled 747 in it's wake. Could happen.... :cool:

Can we stay on topic please?:(

Kid Stanislaus
03-29-2013, 3:17 PM
Please don't advocate the illegal carrying of firearms in this forum.

He didn't. CA pre-emption law sez you can pack yer Roscoe in ANY town in CA if you have a valid LTC.;)

Kid Stanislaus
03-29-2013, 3:18 PM
Jeez! I can't even take my penis to Walnut Creek! Screw them!

Life isen't fair!:D