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JAFGO
10-27-2007, 7:17 PM
http://gamowhisper.com/images/top_banner.jpg

http://gamowhisper.com/

Finally got around to reading my November issue of American Rifleman today and saw an ad for the Gamo Whisper.

Wondering if an "integrally suppressed" air rifle is Cali legal? I don't recall reading any Cali-specific prohibitions relating to them.

Anybody out there own one? Just how quiet are they? They claim up to 52% noise reduction. Most air rifles aren't all that quiet compared to a 22 CB cap.

I'll have to give them a call on Monday and ask if they ship to California.

wilit
10-27-2007, 7:19 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m30

(M30) Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms? [Back]

The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See Questions M15 and 16 for application details.

M. Sage
10-27-2007, 7:27 PM
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers.

I remember when that went down. It was total BS. The paintball "silencers" they were testing were made of a perforated plastic tube surrounded by coarse open-cell foam inside another plastic tube. It would have blown apart if you used it on a real gun, not to mention the fact that the things were built for freaking .68 cal paintballs. Noise reduction? Yeah, maybe a decibel... :rant:

I do remember that they started making paintball silencers that were integral to the barrels, so they couldn't be (easily) put onto a real gun. Shortly afterward, paintball barrel and marker tech got to the point where you didn't need a canister to virtually silence them anymore.

ETD1010
10-27-2007, 7:33 PM
I was gonna say... does an air rifle even NEED a suppressor? They're dead quiet anyway. . .

JAFGO
10-27-2007, 7:34 PM
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers.

I've seen that before. Since Gamo is offering these "noise dampened" air rifles for sale in the USA, I'm guessing that they bypass the above definition by building the suppressor integral with the barrel, i.e, not possible to transfer it to an actual firearm.

If it were removeable, I could see the obvious BATF violation. But short of hack sawing off the end of the barrel, it's permanently attached. Just wondering how Cali sees things.

JAFGO
10-27-2007, 7:54 PM
The paintball "silencers" they were testing were made of a perforated plastic tube surrounded by coarse open-cell foam inside another plastic tube. It would have blown apart if you used it on a real gun,........

I hadn't considered that the Gamo silencer might be made of plastic or such light construction that it would self destruct from even a rimfire. That might explain BATF approval. On the other hand, a 2 litre plastic pop bottle is considered a silencer when attached to firearm's muzzle.

So theoretically the Gamo silencer might be good for one shot from a 22 rimfire just as a pop bottle would be. So both should be illegal. I'm still guessing it's Fed legal because it's permanently attached to the barrel and probably as you say, so lite-duty in design and materials that most firearms would blow it to pieces with one shot.

Question is, is it Cali legal?

jlmurphy
10-28-2007, 4:23 PM
The silencer itself is illegal, if it can be attached in a way that reduces the report of a firearm. The air rifle silencers ( which are legal and encouraged in England) are permanently attached to the barrels of certain precharged pneumatic rifles, which can be quite loud.

Richie Rich
10-28-2007, 8:48 PM
I was kinda surprised when I saw that as well.

Kind of want one, lets see if they will ship to Ca. I would imagine that the federal issues are sorted, they are not a garage based manufacturer so I would imagine Gamo got a clear statement from the ATF in writing before offering the product for sale.

POINTMANDDT
10-29-2007, 11:59 AM
I was kinda surprised when I saw that as well.

Kind of want one, lets see if they will ship to Ca. I would imagine that the federal issues are sorted, they are not a garage based manufacturer so I would imagine Gamo got a clear statement from the ATF in writing before offering the product for sale.


I agree, because with what the ATF states above as a "silencer" or Muffler", all states would be under violation for purchasing one of these right? Since, ATF applies to every state. I looked at the site and it appears you can have it shipped to Cali, with the exception of San Fran.


GAMO USA cannot know all of the local, state and federal restrictions for our products. Therefore, we do not warrant or make any representations that you may legally purchase, own, possess, use or carry any of our specific products, including those offered for sale over the Internet. Many states and local municipalities restrict or prohibit the purchase, ownership, possession, use, and carrying of airguns.

By completing and digitally submitting the Buyer’s Affidavit in the space provided below, you warrant and verify to GAMO USA that you are an adult, of legal age and without legal disabilities, and that you have checked and verified that you may legally purchase, own, possess, use, and carry the product(s) you are purchasing in compliance with state, local and federal laws.

It is difficult to maintain currency on all local laws; therefore GAMO USA has implemented the following policies:

•GAMO USA will only ship an airgun to a person who is 21 years of age or older;
•GAMO USA will ship all air guns direct to a consumer requiring an adult signature at destination;
•GAMO USA will only ship air guns to Alaska and Hawaii using UPS 2nd Day Air and will result in additional shipping charge;
•GAMO USA does not ship freight collect or using a third party account;
•GAMO USA will require the buyer to certify, through submission of an affidavit, that it is legal for them to purchase and posses an air gun;
•GAMO USA will NOT ship air gun purchases to <b>New Jersey, Illinois and Michigan</b>. Only FFL dealer in these states may place orders.
•GAMO USA will NOT ship airguns outside the United States.


Shouldn't a company know all state laws that may apply to their products, I mean from a liability stand point, they are taking a big chance if they don't. I can't imagine a "Buyer’s Affidavit" would be enough to keep them out of the hot seat. Also, would Ca state laws apply to this? If this was legal, I would get one, I remember seeing some air rifles like this at a gun store once, but they no longer sale them, I never asked why.

POINT

Glock22Fan
10-29-2007, 12:49 PM
If you want a quiet air rifle, start with a pump up type (Crosman) rather than a spring type.

My spring air rifle with the suppressor I had in England (didn't risk bringing it here) was still quite noisy because of the mechanical noise of the spring/piston operation. Crossman pump-ups with suppressor are (almost) inaudible. Used to shoot at an air-rifle only range (no ear muffs) where several people had the crossman with suppressor, they could stand next to me and I could hear nothing.

JohnJW
10-29-2007, 6:24 PM
The AirForce Talon SS air rifle has a 12" barrel inside a 18" round tubular frame that sort of acts as a silencer and people do put baffle inside to increase sound suppression. For those of us in CA, pneumatic air rifles with a silencer attached is probably the closest we can get to a real silenced firearm. If I understand the regulations correctly. Silencers for air rifle/pistol are legal, however since most silencers can be interchanged between firearms and air rifles/pistols, silencers for air rifles/pistols has to be either built into the frame or permanently attached to the barrel.

These are not the Daisy and Crossman we grew up with. The muzzle energy of an off the shelf pneumatic rifle can easily approach that of a .22 short. Luckily, the cost for high power pneumatic rifles is a prohibiting factor for little kids and teenagers, otherwise we'll probably have laws regulating "assault air guns" like UK.

saki302
10-30-2007, 4:25 AM
Tim at MAC-1 Air guns has been selling suppressed air pistols and rifles for a long time- they are permanently attached to the gun to keep it legal- I think he welds them and uses a lathe to clean up, or high-temp solder.

MAC-1 is a CA store, and local to lawndale or some such city. Go there if you want to check one out in person.

Part of the use of the sound modulator is to lessen the gas puff behind the pellet for better accuracy, or so I was told.

-Dave

M. Sage
10-30-2007, 7:00 PM
Part of the use of the sound modulator is to lessen the gas puff behind the pellet for better accuracy, or so I was told.

-Dave

Decreasing the amount of turbulence going on at the muzzle helps accuracy, which a suppressor would do.