PDA

View Full Version : APS - Prec / Tact Rifle Match - 10/27/07 Photos


Prc329
10-27-2007, 4:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0443.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0435.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0436.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0437.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0438.jpg

Prc329
10-27-2007, 4:08 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0444.jpg

Only one guy hit it. :( That was a tough shot. 865 yards with a valley behind it so if you shot high you would never know where it went.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0446.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0448.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0451.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0452.jpg

Prc329
10-27-2007, 4:08 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0459.jpg

Note to self. Never mess with your scope the morning before a match :D

proraptor
10-27-2007, 4:26 PM
Looks like a lot of fun....Not to mention a bunch of nice rifles

wildcard
10-27-2007, 6:23 PM
Thanks for the pictures Nayt! What kind kind of "sniper" are we sticking our barrels outside the window.. :o

Now that I look at my picture again.. I need a hair cut!

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 7:15 PM
Note to self. Never mess with your scope the morning before a match :D

You do realize that he was at my house at 9:30 last night having that comp installed and we had to drill out the scope base screws to get the base off the action.
I bumped them up to 8-40 which is a good strength upgrade.

Prc329
10-27-2007, 7:35 PM
And he still shot very well. Damn.

PistolPete75
10-27-2007, 8:32 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0459.jpg

Note to self. Never mess with your scope the morning before a match :D


you didn't read my last post from the last match. never mess with your scope before a match!

anyways, nice pics....it was a very fun match. love shooting with you guys!

and nice job ar15barrels. that is one killer muzzle brake on wildcard's 700p. felt like a .223!

wildcard
10-27-2007, 8:55 PM
Note to self. Never mess with your scope the morning before a match :D

Ideally you shouldn't.. but sometime you just got to make do with what you got!

Great job on the brake, Randall. Once I zeroed my rifle, I got some REAL tight groupings in the .5 - .75 range minutes before the match started. Either eliminating the recoil helped me or the new barrel crown improved the gun.

PistolPete75
10-27-2007, 9:12 PM
Ideally you shouldn't.. but sometime you just got to make do with what you got!

Great job on the brake, Randall. Once I zeroed my rifle, I got some REAL tight groupings in the .5 - .75 range minutes before the match started. Either eliminating the recoil helped me or the new barrel crown improved the gun.

did he recrown it too? that might have made a big difference.

i'm going to do the white out trick, and see if my barrel needs to be recrowned.

Prc329
10-27-2007, 9:20 PM
Part of the threading is a new crown. My gun stock had what looked like an 11 degree target crown. After it has a very clean recessed crown. I wish I new Wildcard was zeroing, I would have checked my rifle.

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 9:22 PM
did he recrown it too? that might have made a big difference.

i'm going to do the white out trick, and see if my barrel needs to be recrowned.

I don't know the "white out trick", but I can tell you how to check if you need a crown job...

Get the existing crown and muzzle face really clean.
Go shoot the gun, the more the better.
Before you clean it, look closely at the muzzle.
You SHOULD see completely EVEN streaks of carbon from the gunpowder.
If the streaks are heavier on one side, the crown is not even.
If you see a perfect "star" with one point extending from each groove, then all is well.

Most factory barrels will improve when the crown is re-cut.

PistolPete75
10-27-2007, 9:24 PM
no worries. just start shooting paper rather than steel for the next match. it will help you improve your score. i need to work on my 200-300yard dope, in 10yard increments. so close to that cbs. i was an 1/8 of an inch off for an extra 100 points. close but no cigar. :0)

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 9:24 PM
that is one killer muzzle brake on wildcard's 700p. felt like a .223!

That's exactly what I told him to expect.

PistolPete75
10-27-2007, 9:26 PM
I don't know the "white out trick", but I can tell you how to check if you need a crown job...

Get the existing crown and muzzle face really clean.
Go shoot the gun, the more the better.
Before you clean it, look closely at the muzzle.
You SHOULD see completely EVEN streaks of carbon from the gunpowder.
If the streaks are heavier on one side, the crown is not even.
If you see a perfect "star" with one point extending from each groove, then all is well.

Most factory barrels will improve when the crown is re-cut.

the white out trick, is to white out the tip of your barrel. fire a few shots, and check the muzzle for even distribution of carbon. works the same way as your tip.

Prc329
10-27-2007, 9:28 PM
The recoil with that brake felt like my Badger. The DPMS has just a little more kick but the weight of the gun takes the rest.

PistolPete75
10-27-2007, 9:34 PM
i'm going with the badger on my custom 700. i'm in debate to do a muzzle brake on the p. jason's shot sooo well. so fresh and so clean!

rksimple
10-27-2007, 10:23 PM
i'm going with the badger on my custom 700. i'm in debate to do a muzzle brake on the p. jason's shot sooo well. so fresh and so clean!

I went back by the range after I left your place and Bill let me take a whirl with his rifle. Shot a .5 inch group first try. Makes me worry a little about mine. :( His felt the same way, like a 223. I think he has a Badger thruster brake on his.

wildcard
10-27-2007, 10:31 PM
I went back by the range after I left your place and Bill let me take a whirl with his rifle. Shot a .5 inch group first try. Makes me worry a little about mine. :( His felt the same way, like a 223. I think he has a Badger thruster brake on his.

It's because you have a Savage ;) Comparing apples to oranges here, buddy!

rksimple
10-27-2007, 10:45 PM
It's because you have a Savage ;) Comparing apples to oranges here, buddy!

No kidding! There were so many factors that made his rifle much easier to shoot well. I don't quite know what it is about that stock that makes it so stable to me, but that thing doesn't move.

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 10:45 PM
I went back by the range after I left your place and Bill let me take a whirl with his rifle. Shot a .5 inch group first try. Makes me worry a little about mine. :( His felt the same way, like a 223. I think he has a Badger thruster brake on his.

I can put good muzzle brakes on a Savage barrel as well...

wildcard
10-27-2007, 10:48 PM
I can put good muzzle brakes on a Savage barrel as well...

That sounds like the equivalent of putting a Night Force on a SKS :p

rksimple
10-27-2007, 10:50 PM
I can put good muzzle brakes on a Savage barrel as well...

I think the barrel might be on its way out. No use really.

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 11:01 PM
I think the barrel might be on its way out. No use really.

Not so.
When you re-barrel, you can re-use the brake on the new barrel. ;)

Prc329
10-27-2007, 11:12 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/Guns/DSC01200.jpg

The only problem with putting a muzzle brake on a savage is you start to realize how good a rifle should be and you want to build something like this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/APS%20Prec%20Tact%20Rifle%20Match/_MG_0438.jpg

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 11:34 PM
The only problem with putting a muzzle brake on a savage is you start to realize how good a rifle should be and you want to build something like this.

This is a problem?

At our 3gun match today, there was an absolute "hoser" handgun stage.
43 rounds minimum.

One of the guys I shoot with was complaining that he had to go grab another mag to be sure he had enough ammo on him.

He also happens to have a bullet casting business and most of us buy our bullets from him.
It was funny when I pointed out that he sells us bullets and that high round-count stages are good for business. :D

Prc329
10-27-2007, 11:56 PM
That reminds me. Up for doing a badger bolt knob for me?

ar15barrels
10-27-2007, 11:59 PM
That reminds me. Up for doing a badger bolt knob for me?

The die is here and I made the special holder.
Just need a willing candidate bolt handle to clamp in the vise.
Do you already have the knob, or do I need to order one?

Timberwolf
10-28-2007, 8:05 AM
FYI - Savannah sports what now appears to be known as a Badger "Thruster Tactical Compensator". The combination of that plus her weight makes for a very stable shooting platform, especially in prone.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 8:19 AM
FYI - Savannah sports what now appears to be known as a Badger "Thruster Tactical Compensator". The combination of that plus her weight makes for a very stable shooting platform, especially in prone.

I found that out. After shooting that group through your gun, it makes me worry about mine. Holding MOA is never a problem for me, yet I was struggling to do it yesterday when I returned to the range. I'll check all the nuts and bolts over today. If its all good, maybe its time for a 243 barrel...

Randall-I meant it would be no use to have you thread a burned up barrel. The brake will definitly be reused once its done. My SPS should be here in a couple weeks. I'll bring it to you for brake installation. Can you turn a Vais brake down to the same contour as the barrel?

PistolPete75
10-28-2007, 9:31 AM
FYI - Savannah sports what now appears to be known as a Badger "Thruster Tactical Compensator". The combination of that plus her weight makes for a very stable shooting platform, especially in prone.


i ordered that same brake a few weeks ago. it's currently backordered.

ar15barrels
10-28-2007, 10:47 AM
My SPS should be here in a couple weeks. I'll bring it to you for brake installation. Can you turn a Vais brake down to the same contour as the barrel?

Coming over to the dark side heh?

I can turn a Vias brake down, but you might check with Vias as they offer a BUNCH of different diameters right from the factory.

When that Savage barrel is completely shot out, it probably just needs to be set back 3/16" and re-chambered and it will shoot better than new.
When a barrel "shoots out", it's really just the throat eroding.
If you shorten the barrel enough to remove the erosion, you get a nice new throat AND the benefit of completely smooth rifling from all the past rounds down the bore.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 11:00 AM
Coming over to the dark side heh?

I can turn a Vias brake down, but you might check with Vias as they offer a BUNCH of different diameters right from the factory.

When that Savage barrel is completely shot out, it probably just needs to be set back 3/16" and re-chambered and it will shoot better than new.
When a barrel "shoots out", it's really just the throat eroding.
If you shorten the barrel enough to remove the erosion, you get a nice new throat AND the benefit of completely smooth rifling from all the past rounds down the bore.

Oh, the darkside has been a long time coming. Randy's building me a Stiller actioned 260 as we speak. I figured I'd get an sps in 308, dropped in an AICS, as a practice gun so as to not burn up the 260 prematurely.

Pushing the chamber foward on a factory savage barrel is worthless IMHO. When you can get pre threaded and chambered shilens, LW's, and pacnor's for 300 bones, there just ain't no reason! Most smiths will charge more than that anyway, and you're still left with a factory tube.

My savage is going to turn into the project rifle...having all kinds of barrel burner cals put on. Maybe an 8 twist 28in LW in 243 for an F class rifle?

I'll look at the Vais diameters...

ar15barrels
10-28-2007, 11:24 AM
Pushing the chamber foward on a factory savage barrel is worthless IMHO. When you can get pre threaded and chambered shilens, LW's, and pacnor's for 300 bones, there just ain't no reason! Most smiths will charge more than that anyway, and you're still left with a factory tube.

I often forget that some people don't have their own machine shops and skills to do that kind of work because when I want to do something like this, I just go out to my shop and do it. :D

If you had to pay for it, the drop-in route with a better barrel is probably the way to go.

Since you already change out your own barrels, it's only $30 to $50 or so to have a barrel threaded for a brake.
That might change your thoughts of a brake being a waste of money on your current barrel.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 11:37 AM
I often forget that some people don't have their own machine shops and skills to do that kind of work because when I want to do something like this, I just go out to my shop and do it. :D

If you had to pay for it, the drop-in route with a better barrel is probably the way to go.

Since you already change out your own barrels, it's only $30 to $50 or so to have a barrel threaded for a brake.
That might change your thoughts of a brake being a waste of money on your current barrel.

$30-$50??? Now we're talkin'! I still have some testing to do, but the SPS is going to be where much of my funds will go. I need to take a look at my crown as well. I was hard on it this last deer season.

I'll let you know. I have family that lives about 5 minutes down the 405 from your place. When I get the new rifle, I'll probably bring both by for a cut, recrown and brake.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 12:03 PM
Randall-do you have reamers and equipment for chambering barrel blanks and truing a 700 action? You could get in on some of the custom 700 builds.

PistolPete75
10-28-2007, 12:54 PM
Randall-do you have reamers and equipment for chambering barrel blanks and truing a 700 action? You could get in on some of the custom 700 builds.

that would be such a nice skill to have. to build high end custom 700 builds.

Prc329
10-28-2007, 1:52 PM
The die is here and I made the special holder.
Just need a willing candidate bolt handle to clamp in the vise.
Do you already have the knob, or do I need to order one?

I have it, I'll call you tuesday.

Prc329
10-28-2007, 1:58 PM
Randall-do you have reamers and equipment for chambering barrel blanks and truing a 700 action? You could get in on some of the custom 700 builds.

Randall, if you do and are willing to do one I will drop by after I get my Rock Creek in.

I think the only problem is if the job is a multi-day job since Randall has no FFL.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 4:26 PM
Randall, if you do and are willing to do one I will drop by after I get my Rock Creek in.

I think the only problem is if the job is a multi-day job since Randall has no FFL.

If no other work is going on, a few hours is all thats needed. I've seen it done.

Might be worth your while Randall to get some experience on some 700 builds. It would be nice to have another reputable gunsmith here in socal to get remmy work done. With how backed up Randy is, you could have more work than you know what to do with, not that the AR work is getting any lighter.

ar15barrels
10-28-2007, 5:45 PM
I have the reamers and tooling to start with a profiled barrel and finish with a complete gun.
Where I am short at this point is the specialized arbors and tooling specific to the 700.
I learned bolt guns by building mausers into heavy target rifles.
The same things apply to 700's as far as the action truing goes.

I'm slowly stepping into 700's.
I'm working on building up all my general gunsmithing skills so that when I am ready to go fulltime-gunsmith, I can have enough variety of work to actually support myself with that career.

At this point, I specialize in AR-15's and many consider me one of the best in the country.
I'm headed in the direction of staying with AR-15 type rifles, but also doing some tactical/precision 700's, 870's, 1100's and Benelli's.
That's where I want to be, so that's the kind of projects I take on.

I'm going to decline full blueprinting and action work at this time until I have done my own and I am more confident in my abilities.

ar15barrels
10-28-2007, 5:51 PM
Randall, if you do and are willing to do one I will drop by after I get my Rock Creek in.

I think the only problem is if the job is a multi-day job since Randall has no FFL.

It should only take a few hours, but I'm sure my first one would take most of a day because I'm slow and talk too much. ;)

I might take you up on that if you don't mind hanging around as I figure it all out.

I don't have all the fixtures worked out right now though.
Facing the bolt and lugs is a real ***** because the bolt-knob keeps the bolt from fitting back into the lathe.
It takes a special fixture to spin the bolt out in front of the chuck.

rksimple
10-28-2007, 5:53 PM
I respect that answer. If you've done mausers, remmy's are going to be easy once you get started. It will be nice having another smith that can do quality work on tac 700's. Looking forward to it.

Cypriss32
10-28-2007, 6:02 PM
Im looking for my Brake for my 308 right now to have you thread for Randall.

Prc329
10-28-2007, 7:40 PM
It should only take a few hours, but I'm sure my first one would take most of a day because I'm slow and talk too much. ;)

I might take you up on that if you don't mind hanging around as I figure it all out.

I don't have all the fixtures worked out right now though.
Facing the bolt and lugs is a real ***** because the bolt-knob keeps the bolt from fitting back into the lathe.
It takes a special fixture to spin the bolt out in front of the chuck.

I'll give you the heads up when my barrel gets here.