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View Full Version : Is there a limit to how many private transfers per month?


Nuuze
10-27-2007, 10:39 AM
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there is a limit on how many firearms that can be purchased through private transfers per month for California? I know there's a 30 day limit with new firearms from a store. It only states that private transfers are excempt. Thanks!

CSACANNONEER
10-27-2007, 10:46 AM
30 days ony applies to new or FFL owned handguns. You can buy as many longguns and PPT handguns as you can hide from your wife.

Nuuze
10-27-2007, 10:53 AM
Cool, thanks!

I don't own any long guns, I'm guessing there's a 10 day wait on long guns also?

Now to learn all the acronyms; what's FFL and PPT mean? PPT=Private Party Transfer? Thanks!

Quiet
10-27-2007, 11:15 AM
Yes. 10 day wait on long guns and PPT = Private Party Transfer.

FFL = Federal Firearms License

Nuuze
10-27-2007, 11:21 AM
Thanks!

randy
10-27-2007, 11:53 AM
One handgun a month in LA city

savasyn
10-27-2007, 2:11 PM
One handgun a month in LA city

Regardless of new or PPT? I've never heard that before.

Nuuze
10-27-2007, 2:47 PM
I have another question.

Say I buy a rifle like a SU-16A rifle http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16a.html. If it ever becomes an item on the California ban list would it be a pre-ban since I bought it before the ban date or would I have to surrender it?

savasyn
10-27-2007, 2:57 PM
I have another question.

Say I buy a rifle like a SU-16A rifle http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16a.html. If it ever becomes an item on the California ban list would it be a pre-ban since I bought it before the ban date or would I have to surrender it?

There is very little, almost no chance that they will be adding anything to the ban list anymore. That would effectively "create" a TON of AWs and where would they be then? Hard to say their stupid law is working if, by their doing, their redefining of a bunch of non-AWs makes more rather than less AWs. Something like that.

But to answer your question specifically, yes, you'd have a pre-new-ban rifle.

Nuuze
10-27-2007, 3:11 PM
Thanks savasyn!

Nuuze
10-27-2007, 4:27 PM
My boss brought hi SKS to the range last week and we were shooting it. I thought he said as long as it had a fixed mag and top loaded it was ok?

savasyn
10-27-2007, 5:33 PM
I'm not very familiar with the specific laws that regulate SKSs so perhaps someone will offer more info on that.

Regarding rifles like the Kel-Tec, I don't think you'll have to worry as they were made with the Kali ban in mind. That's not to say, of course, that at some point in the future, they won't make some other dumb law that bans them. I don't think they will use the existing AWB to do it, though.

Quiet
10-28-2007, 8:40 AM
not neccesarily.didn't they have people register their sks's with detachabel mags then made them turn them in

This is in regards to the Norinco SKS that used AK magazines.

CA DOJ said they were legal and people registered them. Afterwards, CA DOJ said "oops, we made a msitake" and then confiscated them as illegal assault weapons.

SKS with fixed magazines are legal to own in CA and did not need to be registered as assault weapons.

Shane916
10-28-2007, 10:50 AM
My boss brought hi SKS to the range last week and we were shooting it. I thought he said as long as it had a fixed mag and top loaded it was ok?

To sum it up..

Many will argue that the Yugo made SKS for example.. is named the "Zastava M59" and the "59/66" are not labeled on the receiver as "SKS" rifles ..therefore allowing them to have detachable magazines.. I advise against putting a detachable magazine on it even though by definition it would be lawful.

Nuuze
10-28-2007, 3:15 PM
Okay, so I already know it's 30 days per firearm for a new firearm.

Is it 30 days from the time you buy it, or 30 days after pickup?

savasyn
10-28-2007, 5:35 PM
30 days from the day you start DROSing the first one.

Nuuze
10-28-2007, 6:30 PM
Thanks!

Also I was at Big 5 today looking at some of their rifles and they told me the 30 day rule doesn't apply to rifles. :)

CSDGuy
10-28-2007, 6:57 PM
The 30 day rule is only for handguns. IIRC, there is no limit on long gun purchases, you just have to wait the 10 days to pick them up. Oh, and the only other limitation that I'm aware of is the size of your wallet. Of course, this assumes that you're shopping in a place where a local ordinance hasn't restricted firearms sales to the 30 day between DROS's. Most cities and counties do not have these, AFAIK.

kstrongsyj
10-29-2007, 3:16 AM
What about selling PPT? Are there any limits like cars? I know you can only sell so many cars a year before having to be a dealer, same with guns? I am thinking about selling a few things, and would want to stay off the radar ;)

EOD Guy
10-29-2007, 6:14 AM
What about selling PPT? Are there any limits like cars? I know you can only sell so many cars a year before having to be a dealer, same with guns? I am thinking about selling a few things, and would want to stay off the radar ;)


For handguns, you are limited to less than 6 transactions per calendar year. Each transaction can be for any number of handguns. [Penal Code Section 12070(c)(1)(A)]

For other firearms, sales must be "infrequent and without regularity." [PC Section 12070(c)(1)(B)]

Nuuze
10-29-2007, 7:28 AM
That's good to know!

I sold one last month, bought a new one earlier this month and a used one last week from someone.

Should I hold off on a rifle or am I okay? I wouldn't want people calling or coming to my door asking me questions. :)

EOD Guy
10-29-2007, 10:49 AM
That's good to know!

I sold one last month, bought a new one earlier this month and a used one last week from someone.

Should I hold off on a rifle or am I okay? I wouldn't want people calling or coming to my door asking me questions. :)


The limit is on sales, not purchases. I wouldn't worry about selling another.

kstrongsyj
10-29-2007, 3:10 PM
For handguns, you are limited to less than 6 transactions per calendar year. Each transaction can be for any number of handguns. [Penal Code Section 12070(c)(1)(A)]

For other firearms, sales must be "infrequent and without regularity." [PC Section 12070(c)(1)(B)]

That is hysterical. So, can anyone explain to me how, if each handgun requires its own DROS and registration, one would be able to do multiple handguns in one transaction? :rolleyes:

allenst65
10-29-2007, 4:35 PM
So, can anyone explain to me how, if each handgun requires its own DROS and registration, one would be able to do multiple handguns in one transaction? :rolleyes:

Easy.

Example 1 - You take 20 handguns into Turners and they buy them outright. I would consider this one transaction since there is one seller, one buyer and the sale is taking place at one time. Of course Turners would only buy them outright if they're on the list so they can resell them as 'used' instead of consigned.

Example 2 - You take 20 handguns and meet your buddy at the store to PPT them all to him. Even though there are multiple transfers with a separate DROS for each handgun, there is only one seller and one buyer, and again the sale takes place in one transaction.

Later in this area of the pc, there is even a reference to the transfer of multiple handguns on the same date as one "transaction".

"12076(i)(2) In a single transaction on the same date for the delivery of any number of firearms that are pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, the department shall charge a reduced fee pursuant to this section for the second and subsequent firearms that are part of that transaction."


Unfortunately, most of the confusion on this limit of six stems from the very poor wording of the law. It speaks to the seller status only, leaving out half the equation, namely the buyer.

If a seller takes in 20 handguns at one time and places them on consignment at Turners, many would think of this as one transaction. However I don't think this would be the case since there would likely be multiple buyers and sales happening on different days. In this case, the dealer is only holding onto the guns as the middleman, and each seller-buyer interaction would be the factor to determine the transaction.

Likewise, you could preplan to meet separate buyers all at one time in order to PPT handguns to them. Though you're selling all the handguns at one setting (same date rule), I believe the multiple buyers would kick it over to separate transactions.

JTROKS
04-23-2008, 11:05 AM
I was wondering about this regulation limiting the amount of sale/trade an individual can make. So a trade is already a transaction. Arggghhh... I've used up two for the year already. It's a crazy state I tell ya. Thanks for esplayneeng. Ay caramba! Not only we have to keep track of when to pick up the guns in reference to 10 days and 30 day DROS, doing a trade is limited per 5 or less transactions a year. My question is, do they count per calendar year or per every 12 month period? Say I haven't sold any for 2007 and it's Dec 2007 and I used up all my 5 transactions during the month of Dec 2007. Now can I start 2008 by doing another transaction? This is all confusing and I'm sure there are some folks out there not keeping track of how many handguns they have sold in a year.

mymonkeyman
04-23-2008, 11:39 AM
I was wondering about this regulation limiting the amount of sale/trade an individual can make. So a trade is already a transaction. Arggghhh... I've used up two for the year already. It's a crazy state I tell ya. Thanks for esplayneeng. Ay caramba! Not only we have to keep track of when to pick up the guns in reference to 10 days and 30 day DROS, doing a trade is limited per 5 or less transactions a year. My question is, do they count per calendar year or per every 12 month period? Say I haven't sold any for 2007 and it's Dec 2007 and I used up all my 5 transactions during the month of Dec 2007. Now can I start 2008 by doing another transaction? This is all confusing and I'm sure there are some folks out there not keeping track of how many handguns they have sold in a year.

Yes, calendar year.

Edit: It is also not clear to what extent 12070 is applicable to transactions under 12072(d) / 12082. The prohibition on being in the business of selling and transferring firearms except for infrequent transfers in 12070 predates the requirement that PPTs be transferred through FFLs. Arguably because PPTs have to go through an FFL, there is no violation. I wouldn't rely on that though. Has anyone heard of a DROS being denied due to this section?

trinydex
04-23-2008, 11:47 AM
30 days ony applies to new or FFL owned handguns. You can buy as many longguns and PPT handguns as you can hide from your wife.

omg.... *runs to classifieds*

mymonkeyman
04-23-2008, 12:04 PM
omg.... *runs to classifieds*

If the one handgun per 30 day limit really bothers you that much, get a C&R license from the ATF and a COE from the CA DOJ, then you don't have to sweat it.

hawk1
04-23-2008, 12:51 PM
Regardless of new or PPT? I've never heard that before.

Regardless if new or used. It's a city Municipal code.


SEC. 55.14. SALE OR PURCHASE OF MORE THAN ONE HANDGUN WITHIN A THIRTY DAY PERIOD PROHIBITED.
(Added by Ord. No. 172,430, Eff. 3/4/99, Oper. 6/3/99.)

(a) The term “dealer” shall mean a retail firearms dealer licensed by the City of Los Angeles.

(b) No person shall make application to a dealer, as provided in Section 12072 of the California Penal Code, to purchase a pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, herein referred to as “handgun”, within thirty (30) days of making a prior application for the purchase of a handgun within the State of California. In computing the thirty (30) day period, the date the application is made shall be counted as the first day.

(c) No dealer shall transfer the title of any handgun to any person whom the dealer knows has made application to purchase more than one handgun within the State of California within a thirty (30) day period prior thereto, nor shall any dealer process a handgun transaction between unlicensed parties pursuant to California Penal Code Section 12072 if the dealer knows that the one receiving the handgun has made application to purchase more than one handgun within the State of California within a thirty (30) day period prior thereto.

(d) No dealer shall transfer the title of any handgun to any person or process a handgun transaction between unlicensed parties pursuant to California Penal Code Section 12072 if the dealer prior to transfer has received notice from the California Department of Justice, herein referred to as the “DOJ,” that DOJ has received an application for that person to purchase a handgun within the State of California within a thirty (30) day period prior thereto. For the purposes of this subsection, the date of application of purchase shall be the date the DOJ receives the Dealer Record of Sale or receives the transmission of required information by any medium of communication authorized under state law.