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zok
10-25-2007, 11:11 AM
Can anyone tell me if it legal to have a laser sight system on you weapon that you plan on using for your carry on a CCW permit. My gun was built from the factory with this system on it. It can not be taken off, because it is molded in to the frame. I have been looking under P.C. 12050 and can not seem to find an answer. Am I just not seeing it?

Librarian
10-25-2007, 11:18 AM
Nothing to see - PC does not address laser sighting systems as such. Usual don't point a laser at cops, aircraft etc ought to be obvious, as you would be pointing a gun at them.

I suppose the issuing authority might have a comment, but I've never heard of it (which means very little, indeed!).

zok
10-25-2007, 11:21 AM
Nothing to see - PC does not address laser sighting systems as such. Usual don't point a laser at cops, aircraft etc ought to be obvious, as you would be pointing a gun at them.

I suppose the issuing authority might have a comment, but I've never heard of it (which means very little, indeed!).

Thanks ....

Quiet
10-25-2007, 11:34 AM
I suppose the issuing authority might have a comment, but I've never heard of it (which means very little, indeed!).

Different counties has different restrictions.

I believe Orange County SO does not allow laser sights on handguns approved for your CCW permit.

Another county, forgot which one, does not allow calibers under .380ACP on your CCW permit.


Might want to go to www.calccw.com and ask around there.

Josh
10-25-2007, 11:47 AM
Can anyone tell me if it legal to have a laser sight system on you weapon that you plan on using for your carry on a CCW permit. My gun was built from the factory with this system on it. It can not be taken off, because it is molded in to the frame. I have been looking under P.C. 12050 and can not seem to find an answer. Am I just not seeing it?


There is a PC addressing lasers. Basically its illegal to use a laser in a threatening manner unless in defense of your life.

417.25. (a) Every person who, except in self-defense, aims or
points a laser scope, as defined in subdivision (b), or a laser
pointer, as defined in subdivision (c), at another person in a
threatening manner with the specific intent to cause a reasonable
person fear of bodily harm is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail for up to 30 days. For purposes of
this section, the laser scope need not be attached to a firearm.
(b) As used in this section, "laser scope" means a portable
battery-powered device capable of being attached to a firearm and
capable of projecting a laser light on objects at a distance.
(c) As used in this section, "laser pointer" means any hand held
laser beam device or demonstration laser product that emits a single
point of light amplified by the stimulated emission of radiation that
is visible to the human eye.


Because of this, Orange County does not allow lasers on firearms being used for CCW.

What gun do you have where the laser is part of the frame? I know there are ones where it is part of the grip or guide rod.

ohsmily
10-25-2007, 11:48 AM
Can anyone tell me if it legal to have a laser sight system on you weapon that you plan on using for your carry on a CCW permit. My gun was built from the factory with this system on it. It can not be taken off, because it is molded in to the frame. I have been looking under P.C. 12050 and can not seem to find an answer. Am I just not seeing it?

What gun do you have that the LASER can't be removed from? Are you sure it isn't just replacing the recoil guide rod or just part of the grips. Can we get a pic or make or model?

Thank you.

zok
10-25-2007, 11:55 AM
What gun do you have that the LASER can't be removed from? Are you sure it isn't just replacing the recoil guide rod or just part of the grips. Can we get a pic or make or model?

Thank you.

It is a Glock 23. There are only a few of these made. It was meant for FFL's who had high sale in Glocks. My friend was a dealer and was one of a few how received one. I was able to purchase it from him back in 1990. It was also purchased out side of this state.

zok
10-25-2007, 12:00 PM
What gun do you have that the LASER can't be removed from? Are you sure it isn't just replacing the recoil guide rod or just part of the grips. Can we get a pic or make or model?

Thank you.

It is not apart of the grip or recoil rod. The laser is in front of the trigger guard and molded to it. There is no way to remove it. The switch is located in the grip between your second finger and frame of the gun just behind the trigger guard. It is a awesome design.

aplinker
10-25-2007, 12:02 PM
Their logic is that because lasers can be used in a threatening way that they shouldn't be on CCW guns?

That's just bizarre. How can you NOT use the gun in a threatening way while threatening with a laser sight? IF you need the laser sight, you need the gun.


There is a PC addressing lasers. Basically its illegal to use a laser in a threatening manner unless in defense of your life.

417.25. (a) Every person who, except in self-defense, aims or
points a laser scope, as defined in subdivision (b), or a laser
pointer, as defined in subdivision (c), at another person in a
threatening manner with the specific intent to cause a reasonable
person fear of bodily harm is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail for up to 30 days. For purposes of
this section, the laser scope need not be attached to a firearm.
(b) As used in this section, "laser scope" means a portable
battery-powered device capable of being attached to a firearm and
capable of projecting a laser light on objects at a distance.
(c) As used in this section, "laser pointer" means any hand held
laser beam device or demonstration laser product that emits a single
point of light amplified by the stimulated emission of radiation that
is visible to the human eye.


Because of this, Orange County does not allow lasers on firearms being used for CCW.

What gun do you have where the laser is part of the frame? I know there are ones where it is part of the grip or guide rod.

zok
10-25-2007, 12:06 PM
Their logic is that because lasers can be used in a threatening way that they shouldn't be on CCW guns?

That's just bizarre. How can you NOT use the gun in a threatening way while threatening with a laser sight? IF you need the laser sight, you need the gun.

You would also think it would be safer in the fact you can see were your shot is going to be placed. Cuts down on the mistake of your sight picture. To me it would be safer that regular sights verses in low light.

ohsmily
10-25-2007, 12:07 PM
It is not apart of the grip or recoil rod. The laser is in front of the trigger guard and molded to it. There is no way to remove it. The switch is located in the grip between your second finger and frame of the gun just behind the trigger guard. It is a awesome design.

I would be interested in seeing a picture of that. Do you have a link to one on the internet or are you able to take a picture to post?

zok
10-25-2007, 12:09 PM
I would be interested in seeing a picture of that. Do you have a link to one on the internet or are you able to take a picture to post?

I will see what I can do

lawnrevenge
10-25-2007, 12:11 PM
Another county, forgot which one, does not allow calibers under .380ACP on your CCW permit.

Probably San Bernardino, our sheriff is very critical of anything below 9mm. Tells you that if you want to be responsible for your safety you need to be serious about too. I think it's a great way to prevent cheap/uninformed people for wanting to use .25acp or worse yet a rimfire gun cause it's so much cheaper

Josh
10-25-2007, 12:56 PM
Their logic is that because lasers can be used in a threatening way that they shouldn't be on CCW guns?

That's just bizarre. How can you NOT use the gun in a threatening way while threatening with a laser sight? IF you need the laser sight, you need the gun.


Their reasoning is some lawyer can argue, if you don't shoot the guy is it really self defense? Just because you draw a firearm does not mean you shoot it.

Its more of a CYA issue than anything else.

Quiet
10-25-2007, 2:02 PM
It is not apart of the grip or recoil rod. The laser is in front of the trigger guard and molded to it. There is no way to remove it. The switch is located in the grip between your second finger and frame of the gun just behind the trigger guard. It is a awesome design.

From your description, it sounds like a copy of the SK Industries LAW-17 laser.

Several years after the LAW-17 came out, a couple of companies copied the design and were selling them. The most noticeable difference was the location of the laser activator. The copies placed it in the front of the grip, whereas the orginal LAW-17 design had it at the rear of the grip.


SK Industries LAW17 laser on Glock Model 27
http://www.law-17.com/images/randyl_1a.jpg
www.law-17.com/Glock-Laser-index.html

grammaton76
10-25-2007, 3:00 PM
Personally, I'd consider the laser to be a bonus on a carry gun... decades of hollywood have conditioned folks to believe that if you see a laser, you're really about to get it. This would, it seems to me, have a further intimidation effect on baddies who're "on the fence" about standing down once you draw...

CSDGuy
10-25-2007, 3:07 PM
PC 417 is the reason why OC doesn't want lasers on handguns carried by "their" CCW holders. Other counties will vary a LOT on this issue.

Knauga
10-25-2007, 3:26 PM
Probably San Bernardino, our sheriff is very critical of anything below 9mm. Tells you that if you want to be responsible for your safety you need to be serious about too. I think it's a great way to prevent cheap/uninformed people for wanting to use .25acp or worse yet a rimfire gun cause it's so much cheaper

They will tell you "off the record" that if you are serious about self defense you might want to go with a larger caliber. They will still issue the permit with the pop gun on it, but they will visibly wince while doing it :D

zok
10-25-2007, 4:22 PM
From your description, it sounds like a copy of the SK Industries LAW-17 laser.

Several years after the LAW-17 came out, a couple of companies copied the design and were selling them. The most noticeable difference was the location of the laser activator. The copies placed it in the front of the grip, whereas the orginal LAW-17 design had it at the rear of the grip.


SK Industries LAW17 laser on Glock Model 27
http://www.law-17.com/images/randyl_1a.jpg

I will take a picture of mine. It is similar but that is not the way mine is set up or looks like.

lawnrevenge
10-25-2007, 9:07 PM
They will tell you "off the record" that if you are serious about self defense you might want to go with a larger caliber. They will still issue the permit with the pop gun on it, but they will visibly wince while doing it

Good to know.

N6ATF
10-25-2007, 11:17 PM
Personally, I'd consider the laser to be a bonus on a carry gun... decades of hollywood have conditioned folks to believe that if you see a laser, you're really about to get it. This would, it seems to me, have a further intimidation effect on baddies who're "on the fence" about standing down once you draw...

Eh, YMMV. Looking straight ahead, I can't see my chest in peripheral vision. You'd be betting they were looking down after your draw.

Green laser beam might show in the dark, but then you'd give away your position in a tactical situation.

Josh
10-26-2007, 2:00 AM
Eh, YMMV. Looking straight ahead, I can't see my chest in peripheral vision. You'd be betting they were looking down after your draw.

Green laser beam might show in the dark, but then you'd give away your position in a tactical situation.


I would put just as much faith in a laser sight stopping a determined opponent as I do the sound of a racking shotgun.

grammaton76
10-26-2007, 3:40 PM
Eh, YMMV. Looking straight ahead, I can't see my chest in peripheral vision. You'd be betting they were looking down after your draw.

Green laser beam might show in the dark, but then you'd give away your position in a tactical situation.

True. I use a Crimson Trace red laser on my HD Sig. Main purpose is for nocturnal aiming without turning on the lights... in that scenario, it'd be pretty well noticed.