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calgunsgazpacho
03-24-2013, 10:00 AM
Please read the article and then comment:http://rt.com/usa/us-homeland-security-bullets-congress-703/

This crap really concerns me. Its cool that we have some people in congress and even Forbes magazine asking some real questions about this.

I'll quote the beginning of the article so you know where its going, "The Department of Homeland Security has plans to buy enough ammunition to fight the equivalent of a 24-year Iraq War – on US territory – and even US congressmen don’t understand why."

According to the article even the "Social Security Administration has reportedly purchased 174,000 hollow-point bullets."

I want to thank Californian Congressman Doug LaMalfa who along with 14 other House members are demanding answers from the DHS.

dominic
03-24-2013, 10:06 AM
Latest I heard from the Drudge Report yesterday is that DHS is denying buying all that ammo and that some of the purchase contracts had language that listed for "up to" a certain amount over the next five years and it was for training ammunition, etc. etc but I don't believe a word of it, myself.. http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/03/22/dhs-denies-massive-ammunition-purchase

PoorChoiceofUsername
03-24-2013, 10:08 AM
News from the Russians? Really?

BigAinCA
03-24-2013, 10:11 AM
News from the Russians? Really?

huh?

dominic
03-24-2013, 10:15 AM
Whoa? Russians? Glad I didn't click on that link then?

BTW, OP I just noticed you have one of that jerk Lalo Alcarez's cartoons in your avatar. You know he is a racist liberal don't you? Here is an example of his anti-gun sentiments:

http://assets.amuniversal.com/261de280424301300ee6001dd8b71c47?width=750.0

calgunsgazpacho
03-24-2013, 10:15 AM
Cool link and thanks for input. It does lend to some understanding of the issue. However I noticed the following so it sounds like a mixed bag.
"One solicitation by the agency—for training centers and law enforcement personnel—was for "up to" 750 million rounds of training ammunition over the next five years, DHS spokesman Peter Boogaard told Whispers."

"Another five-year contract allows for the purchase of "up to" 450 million rounds of ammunition, he said, and was also for law enforcement. Boogaard noted that the contract would be used by all DHS agencies except the Coast Guard.

calgunsgazpacho
03-24-2013, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE=dominic;10900488]Whoa? Russians? Glad I didn't click on that link then?

BTW, OP I just noticed you have one of that jerk Lalo Alcarez's cartoons in your avatar. You know he is a racist liberal don't you? Here is an example of his anti-gun sentiments:

Off topic but thats not why I own guns. so lol

PoorChoiceofUsername
03-24-2013, 10:26 AM
huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rt.com

dominic
03-24-2013, 10:28 AM
Off topic but thats not why I own guns. so lol

Oh, OK. So why are you concerned that the DHS (the govt.) is buying "up to" 1.6 billion rounds of ammo then? Just asking, especially since you don't own guns because you expect to have to defend yourself from a govt' that may try to take away your freedoms with those same 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition that you originally posted about. I'm sure that DHS isn't going to use that against anyone opposing their policies. Of course not.:D

Doheny
03-24-2013, 10:30 AM
CalGunners hoarding Tinfoil.

Fixed that for you.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiMP8KDOut3Tob6e0jt3dci7BQT20GD qN4s4MrCj-sECuC5vVWYg

gemoose23
03-24-2013, 10:46 AM
DHS purchase order for training ammo in my sig link... read the Request to Purchase and the min/max quantities.... I'd google the delivery address too in Glycon, GA. :tfh:

Virginian
03-24-2013, 10:49 AM
With any kind of luck, all that ammo will wind up as surplus one day. :)

Waffleobill
03-24-2013, 1:07 PM
Billions of rounds of hollow point ammunition (for training!!!) and 2,700 MRAPs. They are currently preparing for all out 2A confiscation and or a large scale occupation of the US.

ipser
03-24-2013, 2:35 PM
I initially dismissed this too but this article does raise some interesting points (with links):

http://www.infowars.com/government-cover-up-of-ammo-buys-implodes/

For example, are hollow points really the most cost effecitive choice for training?

richard chese
03-24-2013, 2:47 PM
Goonie goo goo

http://robbiestudent.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/janet-napolitano.gif

eric556
03-24-2013, 2:54 PM
Billions of rounds of hollow point ammunition (for training!!!) and 2,700 MRAPs. They are currently preparing for all out 2A confiscation and or a large scale occupation of the US.




Good luck with that.....:rolleyes:

Calplinker
03-24-2013, 3:08 PM
This is complete Tinfoil Hat stuff and beneath us. What's more, it's been de-bunked numerous times. See link below for good analysis.

Always amazes me that people jump to conclusions and seem incapable of even basic research. Please stop posting this garbage.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520469

ipser
03-24-2013, 5:09 PM
This is complete Tinfoil Hat stuff and beneath us. What's more, it's been de-bunked numerous times. See link below for good analysis.

Always amazes me that people jump to conclusions and seem incapable of even basic research. Please stop posting this garbage.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520469

A forum link to a Denver Post link with three paragraphs. The key paragraph is the third of the three:

The government's explanation is less sinister. Federal solicitations to buy the ammo are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga. The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

Here is what Steve Watson noted of this explanation:

The source of the claim that concerns over the bullet buys are a conspiracy theory or “misleading,” is a February 14 Associated Press report which did not conduct any actual investigation into why the DHS was purchasing the ammo, instead regurgitating a statement from DHS official Peggy Dixon, who claimed the bullets were bought in bulk to save money and were for training purposes only.

As we have tirelessly noted, however, hollow point bullets are completely unsuitable for training purposes because they cost significantly more money compared to standard firing range bullets. In one fell swoop, this fact debunks claims that the agency was attempting to save money argument and is intending to use the ammo in training exercises.

Military veterans and ammunition experts have also confirmed that they have never used hollow points for training purposes, expressing confusion at why the DHS is buying up so many of them.

I'm all for debunking tin foil hat conspiracy theories but do it right.

NoJoke
03-24-2013, 5:22 PM
Latest I heard from the Drudge Report .... and it was for training ammunition, etc]

I thought I read on Drudge not too long ago that a lot of the ammo was sniper stuff.

Nefarious
03-24-2013, 5:52 PM
If we are buying/hoarding ammo, Id sure like to see where its going.

We have already cut-down significantly on our range day training. Thats fine for those of us that are "proficient" and those us that can hit our target. Not so good for those that are border line and baaarely pass. Do I feel safe knowing that the guy with me has issues hitting a body target at 15 ft away -uhhh no I sure dont.

Training ammo is no longer given for after hours practice. Im fine with that. It doesnt help those that REALLY do want the ammo for practice, and we arent suppost to use any other ammo in our pistols OTHER than what we are issued... so ...

We have even cutback on training that used sim rounds ..
M4 drills/training cutback
shotgun drill/training cutback
Other rifle/pistol drill/training cutback
overall cutback on all training requiring ammo

Our storage facility that was once full of ammo, is almost empty - or simply moved to a secret squirrl location :D

Those at the academy DO have lots of range time. I would not be surprised if a bulk of the ammo is going to FLETC.

Edit: I have not read the article you linked yet.

NoJoke
03-24-2013, 5:57 PM
Could all this ammo buying be occuring just to remove it from OUR shelves? So we don't have access?

a1c
03-24-2013, 7:05 PM
Billions of rounds of hollow point ammunition (for training!!!) and 2,700 MRAPs. They are currently preparing for all out 2A confiscation and or a large scale occupation of the US.

The MRAPs are not for the DHS. They are an order from the Navy and Marines. Stop being such a drone repeating stuff you read on the Interwebs.

And those billion of rounds? Don't you guys do any shooting once in a while? Do some math.

Enough with the paranoia, people. This is the kind of thread that makes us look like nuts.

monkezuncle
03-24-2013, 7:12 PM
Enough with the paranoia, people.


Paranoids are people too. You'd be paranoid if everyone was out to get you too.

a1c
03-24-2013, 7:14 PM
Paranoids are people too. You'd be paranoid if everyone was out to get you too.

And maybe they are. But I also subscribe to Occam's Razor.

JoshuaS
03-24-2013, 9:26 PM
DHS includes the coast guard, the Border Patrol, air marshals. What, you want want them you only by 8 rounds a year per armed agent (over 5 years that would be 8 million rounds by itself). 1.6 billion is completely reasonable.

calgunsgazpacho
03-24-2013, 9:35 PM
No if you took the time to read any above links you would have read that they don't need anywhere near 1 billion rounds of ammo. They use a little more than 100,000,000 per year for all departments you mentioned plus a few more.

I find it quite interesting their timing to potentially acquire up to 1 billion rounds of ammo (for 2013) at a time like this when they have shown that 1/10 of that annually will suffice.

Look, at the very least the demand raises prices on ammo for all of us and that really sux.

penguinofsleep
03-24-2013, 9:48 PM
wouldnt it be ironic if a bunch of stereotype weirdo hoarders, preppers, and gun owners ran the DHS and they were simply doing what every prepper probably wishes they could do?

bwiese
03-24-2013, 9:52 PM
I really wish all the idjits that don't understand much about long term purchase contract to avoid inflation (like airlines do) - without actual delivery of product all at once - would instead worry themselves about activism here in California against bad gun laws.

Y'all are easy to get baited into relatively nonworrisome concerns while they pull the wool over your eyes (see: "California Constitutional Sheriffs").

JoshuaS
03-24-2013, 10:34 PM
No if you took the time to read any above links you would have read that they don't need anywhere near 1 billion rounds of ammo. They use a little more than 100,000,000 per year for all departments you mentioned plus a few more.

I find it quite interesting their timing to potentially acquire up to 1 billion rounds of ammo (for 2013) at a time like this when they have shown that 1/10 of that annually will suffice.

Look, at the very least the demand raises prices on ammo for all of us and that really sux.

Source?

If that is true, they are not practicing enough

Yugo
03-24-2013, 10:38 PM
https://www.facebook.com/notes/terry-michael-hestilow/re-department-of-homeland-security-dhs-and-that-agencies-preparation-for-war-aga/10151339181433869

kalimus
03-25-2013, 6:21 AM
If you take the top of the ceiling for the ordered rounds, break it down for rounds per year (because the contract is for 5 years), and then break it down to all 200k (ish) people employed by DHS, it works out to less than 500 rounds per yer, per person. I hardly think that's excessive. I go through 500 rounds in a weekend.

And yeah, they're all hollow points... but isn't the purpose of practive to train with what you shoot? Makes sense to me.

And it's not a billion rounds. It was like 1.4 million.

The War Wagon
03-25-2013, 7:00 AM
According to the article even the "Social Security Administration has reportedly purchased 174,000 hollow-point bullets."

Well, I guess THEY plan on staying, "socially secure!" :rolleyes:

It's the Der Kommissar ObamassarKare "cure-for-what-ails-ya'"... AFTER you develop health problems & have started collecting SSI! :eek:

Dutch3
03-25-2013, 7:49 AM
DHS has only awarded purchase contracts for about 400,000 rounds since the beginning of this year, even though there are solicitations out there for higher numbers.

CDFingers
03-25-2013, 8:25 AM
Avoid sweaty pundits because it is their job to misinform and to provide incomplete information for low information voters.

Don't be "that guy." Avoid myopia and read other sources.

http://cfp.canadafreepress.com/hagmann091012.jpg

link:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/49418#.UE5yVcpFLqE.twitter

CDFingers

Just_some_guy
03-25-2013, 8:48 AM
DHS includes the coast guard, the Border Patrol, air marshals. What, you want want them you only by 8 rounds a year per armed agent (over 5 years that would be 8 million rounds by itself). 1.6 billion is completely reasonable.

Including the Coast Guard, the DHS employs 220,000 people. That includes agents and officers, but also administrative assistants, clerks, janitorial staff and cooks.

They have open orders for at least 1,600,000,000 rounds ( 1.6 Billion) of mostly hollow point ammunition. (Actually, it is closer to 2 billion if you add up what contracts were open before the stories broke).

This works out to 9500 rounds per employee, counting even the clerks and janitors.

The contracts are IDIQ (indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity), which are essentially purchase options. The period is 4 years on each contract.

It is true that it isn't a contract to deliver that much. However, it does leave them completely open with no further contract processes, to simply pick up the phone and order some or all of it, at any time.

Honestly, I don't see justification for this. Either they have a procurement process that is run amok (entirely probable) or they are gearing up for civil unrest (seemingly possible since it seems to be a recurring theme if you read what DHS seems to talk about internally). Most likely, both, some gearing up, some purchasing run amok.

The MRAPS question is a weird one, the story seems to have been denied, but they did order all kinds of armored guard shacks and oodles and oodles of other stuff to set up hardened compounds and buildings.

Best part of course, is the high quality of answers that we're getting from the government.

kalimus
03-25-2013, 8:58 AM
It also works out to a little over 1800 rounds per year for each of those, IF the contract is FULLY filled. (1,600,000,000 / 4 / 220,000) And DHS also contracts additional entities outside of the government. But for grins and giggles... if only 1/2 of those people use/train with guns, and there were no outside contracter support, then you're looking at 3600 rounds per person, per year.

Is that excessive? Anybody on this board shoot that many rounds in a year?

100 rounds a week is already putting you at 5200 rounds in a year....

joe_gman
03-25-2013, 9:11 AM
I really wish all the idjits that don't understand much about long term purchase contract to avoid inflation (like airlines do) - without actual delivery of product all at once - would instead worry themselves about activism here in California against bad gun laws.

Thank you Bill. It's amazing how many people on Calguns fail to realize just how many agencies are under the fold of the DHS. Plus how many fail to understand government purchasing policies.

Calplinker
03-25-2013, 9:27 AM
I really wish all the idjits that don't understand much about long term purchase contract to avoid inflation (like airlines do) - without actual delivery of product all at once - would instead worry themselves about activism here in California against bad gun laws.

Y'all are easy to get baited into relatively nonworrisome concerns while they pull the wool over your eyes (see: "California Constitutional Sheriffs").

+1 on this. There are some real loons out there, including on this site.

The idiot at InfoWars writes that "A Marine veteran says they never trained with hollow points".

Well this is no surprise since our military does not use them AT ALL. They are banned under the Hague convention and have been for over 100 years. :facepalm:

Once again, basic research would reveal this, but people seem to be dead set on finding some conspiracy.

Why do I care if they buy 2 billion rounds of ammunition, or 10 billion? :oji:

Waffleobill
03-25-2013, 10:28 AM
Why do I care if they buy 2 billion rounds of ammunition, or 10 billion? :oji:

Because it creates shortages and inflates prices on our side of the fence.

a1c
03-25-2013, 10:51 AM
Enough about the MRAPs. Stop getting your news off Infowars or other conspiracy websites. That makes you look like ill-educated dimwits. You're just parroting what you heard from other idiots and you want to believe it because that fits your little conspiracy theories about government takeovers along with U.N. black helicopters.

The irony is that the real information is out there. But most conspiracy theorists are just lazy high school dropouts living with their moms. It's much easier to pick up some other dude's ramblings rather than doing some actual investigative work which might require phone calls, writing emails or letters, speaking to real experts, or even getting out of the house. Gee.

Here is the contract for the vehicles in question:
http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4701

They're for the Navy and the Marines. Big whoop.


We have real challenges RIGHT NOW in Sacramento and San Francisco. That's what you should be really worried about.

jpx0123
03-25-2013, 10:54 AM
i can understand the whole bulk purchasing theory as i've worked in purchasing before.. but i read somewhere that we currently use 15million rounds per year on training. in 5 years that 75 million rounds... they put in for 750 million rounds. that is 10 times what they are averaging now.. im not one of those conspiracy theory guys, but that does sound a bit to excessive especially considering the current condition of our budgets and economy.

Calplinker
03-25-2013, 10:59 AM
.. but i read somewhere....

You read somewhere? :facepalm:

qdx450
03-25-2013, 11:01 AM
the ammo is for the fast n d furious part 2 :D

a1c
03-25-2013, 11:02 AM
i can understand the whole bulk purchasing theory as i've worked in purchasing before.. but i read somewhere that we currently use 15million rounds per year on training. in 5 years that 75 million rounds... they put in for 750 million rounds. that is 10 times what they are averaging now.. im not one of those conspiracy theory guys, but that does sound a bit to excessive especially considering the current condition of our budgets and economy.

What does "we" mean and really, just "millions"?

The Calguns community probably shoots millions of rounds a year alone.

garand1945
03-25-2013, 11:07 AM
Don't blame the TFH crowd. The problem is lack of transparency on the part of the govt during a time of significant govt mistrust and the most extreme ammo shortage ever. If DHS amended the contract to their legitimate 5 year needs, most of the TFH would go away. And we're all being played by Obama on this. They may never purchase the full contract amount but to them stirring us up so they can paint us as wackos is priceless.

Hoshnasi
03-25-2013, 11:09 AM
Goonie goo goo

http://robbiestudent.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/janet-napolitano.gif

BEST DELIRIOUS REFERENCE EVAR!!!!

Sailormilan2
03-25-2013, 11:16 AM
+1 on this. There are some real loons out there, including on this site.

The idiot at InfoWars writes that "A Marine veteran says they never trained with hollow points".

Well this is no surprise since our military does not use them AT ALL. They are banned under the Hague convention and have been for over 100 years. :facepalm:

Once again, basic research would reveal this, but people seem to be dead set on finding some conspiracy.

Why do I care if they buy 2 billion rounds of ammunition, or 10 billion? :oji:

It was my understanding, and I could be wrong, that while the use of hollow points (and things like poison gas) was banned the US Gov't stipulated that they could use those items on their own internal problems/population.

Hoshnasi
03-25-2013, 11:19 AM
Bulk purchasing through on federal entity to then distribute internally. I can understand this and I think it would reduce waste and loss.

Purchasing more than has ever been purchased before by and exponential number does raise my eyebrow.

JoshlikesARs
03-25-2013, 11:23 AM
+1 on this. There are some real loons out there, including on this site.

The idiot at InfoWars writes that "A Marine veteran says they never trained with hollow points".

Well this is no surprise since our military does not use them AT ALL. They are banned under the Hague convention and have been for over 100 years. :facepalm:

Once again, basic research would reveal this, but people seem to be dead set on finding some conspiracy.

Why do I care if they buy 2 billion rounds of ammunition, or 10 billion? :oji:

Because YOU and I are paying for it! If you haven't noticed we are broke.

keneva
03-25-2013, 11:35 AM
Being discussed on KMJ 580 AM radio right now.

Monte
03-25-2013, 12:22 PM
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2013/03/15/homeland-securitys-ammunition-purchases-should-not-worry-you/

OleCuss
03-25-2013, 12:23 PM
The problem exists largely because our government has not been very forthcoming on the issue. If they were better at communicating the whole thing would probably die down very nicely.

Note also that the timing doesn't really help. Hearing that the DHS is buying huge quantities of ammo at a time that ammo is nearly impossible to get on the civilian market makes people wonder if there is a connection.

I think that a good analysis says that it probably isn't a big deal, but the "max" amount seems a bit odd.

Monte
03-27-2013, 5:46 PM
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2013/03/27/billions-of-bullets-and-thousands-of-mraps-oh-my/

Arondos
03-28-2013, 12:56 AM
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2013/03/15/homeland-securitys-ammunition-purchases-should-not-worry-you/

Sunday
03-28-2013, 8:53 PM
DHS includes the coast guard, the Border Patrol, air marshals. What, you want want them you only by 8 rounds a year per armed agent (over 5 years that would be 8 million rounds by itself). 1.6 billion is completely reasonable.They are paid enough to buy their own practice ammo. Have you looked at their pay and retirement packages??? I buy my own tools and pay for my own continuing education to keep up to par for my occupation. My pay and retirement don't come from the slop trough of the taxpayers.

vmwerks
03-28-2013, 9:02 PM
You guys kill me.... srsly

SVT-40
03-28-2013, 10:18 PM
They are paid enough to buy their own practice ammo. Have you looked at their pay and retirement packages??? I buy my own tools and pay for my own continuing education to keep up to par for my occupation. My pay and retirement don't come from the slop trough of the taxpayers.

Sounds like you chose the wrong job.....;)

SonoftheRepublic
03-29-2013, 11:12 AM
The great men who framed
our Constitution understood
principles long forgotten by most Americans and
most certainly ignored by those who hold office
today. They understood that the real purpose of
civil government was to protect our God-given
rights to life, liberty, and property and that no
government is just or legitimate when it acts in
violation of these rights.

What we are seeing is an unprecedented build-up of a Standing Army- Napolitano's & O'bama's "Homeland Security" is a Standing Army to be used against the people - PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

The Founders MADE IT VERY CLEAR in their writings that a Standing Army was considered one of the greatest dangers to the "people", and in direct violation of their God-given birthright of Liberty as free men and women.

George Washington knew well the dangers when he said: “Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”

Washington knew, as did nearly all the Founders, that human nature does not change, and when given great power, it tends to become corrupt . . . hence Lord Acton's quote: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Unfortunately, there are many Americans who have lost touch with our forefathers' wisdom, and blindly go along with what the Gov't/T.V./Media continues to 'force feed', instead of using their common sense to discern the real truth here.

To error on the side of suspicion against government is a long-standing American Tradition as Jefferson aptly stated:

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere. – Thomas Jefferson (1743-1846), U.S. President, Letter to Abigail Adams, 22 February 1787

totus44
03-29-2013, 12:17 PM
When storerooms or empty offices of the local Social Security offices around the country are reportedly stacked to the ceiling with ammunition, I'm at the minimum a bit curious as to the justification. It's not like they are hiding the fact that various government offices have been 'militarizing' this past decade. If it's anti-terrorism related, and they tell us 'al queso' is dismantled, then who do the see as the 'threat', us?

To go off tin-foil hat on this doesn't help, just as to completely discount it does little good. My guess is that they are being purposely vague to elicit the 'militia response', then reveal some 'common sense' reason and use the over reaction as a means to win over the fence sitters in the gun grab game. Just becase we are used to seeing the anti's use emotion to their advantage, don't underestimate them to not use our emotions to our disadvantage.

TRICKSTER
03-29-2013, 1:19 PM
If this is what the hoopla is all about, the amounts are actually....

https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbweb/fbobuyDetails.do?token===wBKxmaVGYR9Kcq5Ajq%2BRH6Q AAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or

10,000,000 rounds : Commercial Leaded Training Ammo (CLTA) Pistol Cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point

10,000,000 rounds : Commercial Leaded Training Ammo (CLTA) 9MM 115 GRAIN JACKETED HOLLOW POINT

1,600,000 rounds : Commercial Leaded Training Ammo (CLTA) PISTOL CARTIDGE 9MM BALL 124 GRAIN P/N AE9AP OR EQUAL BRASS CASING


Does anyone here have any actual documents that state otherwise, or is this a bunch of :TFH: ?

Wiz-of-Awd
03-29-2013, 1:30 PM
When storerooms or empty offices of the local Social Security offices around the country are reportedly stacked to the ceiling with ammunition, I'm at the minimum a bit curious as to the justification. It's not like they are hiding the fact that various government offices have been 'militarizing' this past decade. If it's anti-terrorism related, and they tell us 'al queso' is dismantled, then who do the see as the 'threat', us?

To go off tin-foil hat on this doesn't help, just as to completely discount it does little good. My guess is that they are being purposely vague to elicit the 'militia response', then reveal some 'common sense' reason and use the over reaction as a means to win over the fence sitters in the gun grab game. Just becase we are used to seeing the anti's use emotion to their advantage, don't underestimate them to not use our emotions to our disadvantage.

Perhaps, just perhaps...

With all the talk from the pro-gun side about the "next revolution" or "civil war," the GOV's tin foil hats are all being worn as well.

Makes sense while we are all stocking up for the upcoming - whatever, that the "man" is quite simply doing the same - just in case all us gun nuts do actually pull the first trigger.

A.W.D.

jpx0123
03-29-2013, 2:00 PM
What does "we" mean and really, just "millions"?

The Calguns community probably shoots millions of rounds a year alone.

i've read so many articles i can't keep a track of them all anymore...

"We" as in the government. sorry.. maybe i should have said they.

jpx0123
03-29-2013, 2:01 PM
Bulk purchasing through on federal entity to then distribute internally. I can understand this and I think it would reduce waste and loss.

Purchasing more than has ever been purchased before by and exponential number does raise my eyebrow.


stated better than how i did.. this is what i basically meant.

a1c
03-29-2013, 2:36 PM
Bulk purchasing through on federal entity to then distribute internally. I can understand this and I think it would reduce waste and loss.

Purchasing more than has ever been purchased before by and exponential number does raise my eyebrow.

What reference are you using to say "more than has ever been purchased before"?

The DHS as we know it is not even a decade old, and is still being reorganized.

ZombieTactics
03-29-2013, 2:41 PM
... The DHS as we know it is not even a decade old, and is still being reorganized.

Which is in and of itself a concern. Why do we actually need this internal para-military organization in the first place? Honestly, this appears - if nothing else - to be another instance of where government simply grows-n-grows completely out of reference to need utility or teh common good.

a1c
03-29-2013, 2:44 PM
Which is in and of itself a concern. Why do we actually need this internal para-military organization in the first place? Honestly, this appears - if nothing else - to be another instance of where government simply grows-n-grows completely out of reference to need utility or teh common good.

Para-military? Do you know which agencies that are part of the DHS?

This is a multi-year purchase to redistribute to various LE agencies. Given the price of ammo lately, this is a pretty smart future buy.