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View Full Version : Californians show strong support for strict gun control measures (LA Times)


Doheny
03-22-2013, 5:21 AM
Woke up to this:

eLGLRLELDf0

.

Article: Californians show strong support for strick gun control measures. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-guns-poll-20130321,0,2343067.story)


.

LuvLRBs
03-22-2013, 5:31 AM
Translation: minorities control California, they don't like guns, to Hell with the constitution. Control, regulate, license, limit, fees, fees, fees, because they can.

iwindsurf78
03-22-2013, 5:32 AM
As everybody thinks its over!! His last comment "an AW ban would pass overwhelmingly in CA". Feinstein ain't done with us yet.

hawk1
03-22-2013, 5:42 AM
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

arrix
03-22-2013, 5:58 AM
Licensing a civil right? Clearly the efforts of California's education system is coming to fruition.

desertjosh
03-22-2013, 5:59 AM
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

This^^^

LuvLRBs
03-22-2013, 5:59 AM
This is a HATE campaign. Pure hate. If the majority of gun owners were black, or the majority Hispanic, or the majority Asian, the media and politicians would be screaming RACISM all over the place. I have never in my life seen anything like this. We're not talking about one or two laws here, we're talking about making life absolutely miserable for a subgroup of society with a large number of punitive laws against people who have broken no law. They are simply hated by the now majority. I sure wish a few Latino leaders would come forward and speak out against this hatred instead of fueling the fires of it.

Bsandoc40
03-22-2013, 6:12 AM
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

^^^ +1

sfpcservice
03-22-2013, 6:13 AM
This is a HATE campaign. Pure hate. If the majority of gun owners were black, or the majority Hispanic, or the majority Asian, the media and politicians would be screaming RACISM all over the place. I have never in my life seen anything like this. We're not talking about one or two laws here, we're talking about making life absolutely miserable for a subgroup of society with a large number of punitive laws against people who have broken no law. They are simply hated by the now majority. I sure wish a few Latino leaders would come forward and speak out against this hatred instead of fueling the fires of it.

They are lucky it's not possible to be racist against white people.

Mail Clerk
03-22-2013, 6:13 AM
Woke up to this:

eLGLRLELDf0

.

Article: Californians show strong support for strick gun control measures. (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-guns-poll-20130321,0,2343067.story)


.


Just saw/read this article that cam out in the newspaper. It sounds and looks grim for California but let's see what happens. It not over until it's over folks.

CDFingers
03-22-2013, 6:15 AM
I think some errors exist in the article.

Every gun I've ever bought at a gun show had to go through an FFL. Every one. Now, I'm lucky that my FFL lives in my neighborhood, so all's I have to go is just go over to his house to pick my gun up after the ten day thing.

My point is that, unless it's an antique, California already has a back ground check. I think the sections showing that people are in favor of making that law don't know the law already exists.

I found this statement apt:

>But "when you get to the some of the more … nanny-state-type proposals, you've got a little bit of a difference there."

(CDF): I am still laboring under the notion that McDonald and Heller are our saving graces and will eventually come to California, where our laws will be scrutinized, with many being over turned. Until then, I go shooting and enjoy our sports.

CDFingers

pigpen66m
03-22-2013, 6:23 AM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

captbilly
03-22-2013, 6:26 AM
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?

nicoroshi
03-22-2013, 6:33 AM
I think some errors exist in the article.

Every gun I've ever bought at a gun show had to go through an FFL. Every one. Now, I'm lucky that my FFL lives in my neighborhood, so all's I have to go is just go over to his house to pick my gun up after the ten day thing.

My point is that, unless it's an antique, California already has a back ground check. I think the sections showing that people are in favor of making that law don't know the law already exists.

I found this statement apt:

>But "when you get to the some of the more … nanny-state-type proposals, you've got a little bit of a difference there."

(CDF): I am still laboring under the notion that McDonald and Heller are our saving graces and will eventually come to California, where our laws will be scrutinized, with many being over turned. Until then, I go shooting and enjoy our sports.

CDFingers
+1
Hope for saving our so called representitives is lost.
My eyes (and dollars) will be with the lawyers and ultimately SCOTUS.
Heller, and MacDonald need to be recognized by CA even if we need to hold Sacramento down and shovel it (with a federal court ruling) down their liberal blind throats.
Owning a firearm for self defense is a civil, and God given right.

sfpcservice
03-22-2013, 6:35 AM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

Sorry... I think its a generized frustration with California political pandering.

wuluf
03-22-2013, 6:36 AM
Everybody agrees on keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people — criminals and the mentally ill — and on punitive measures against criminal enterprises. Those are no-brainers," said Drew Lieberman of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research, a Democratic polling firm that conducted the survey with the Republican polling company American Viewpoint.

So let's pass more laws, because criminals..oh, wait.

5thgen4runner
03-22-2013, 6:47 AM
What's a minority nowadays? because I haven't seen a white person in a few weeks.

Hoooper
03-22-2013, 6:49 AM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?

Bold is where youre wrong, and here is why:

California is not rich, California as a state takes in a gigantic amount of $$$ in tax revenue but being rich requires you to actually have $$ free to spend, which CA doesnt. The budget crisis doesnt exist because of having too much $$$. Your stat is also wrong. It used to be true, but that number has actually dropped to the 8th richest country in the world.

the influx of people in CA is not from other states but from other countries. California has actually had a negative domestic migration in each of the 20 past years, which means that citizens of the US are leaving CA for other states faster than they are coming to CA. That is, at least, if you believe the census bureau. For the most part, the people leaving are middle and lower income families.

arrix
03-22-2013, 6:51 AM
So it's tyranny of the minorities to de-arm white people? Reverse racism!

Tyrone
03-22-2013, 6:54 AM
For the second time this morning I submit the same quote... It "should" not matter if a majority of people in State are against us. Unfortunately, that does not stop the antis from infringement in the name of majority opinion. "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials, and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections." Robert Jackson West Virginia St. Bd. Educ. v. Barnette... The Founders were against pure "democracy" which in its raw form is nothing more than mob rule. This is why we are a Constitutional Republic.

LuvLRBs
03-22-2013, 6:55 AM
Sorry... I think its a generized frustration with California political pandering.

As I recall the clip pointed out that Hispanics generally do not like guns, it was not my speculation.

LuvLRBs
03-22-2013, 6:57 AM
So it's tyranny of the minorities to de-arm white people? Reverse racism!

Again, the Hispanic disdain for guns was pointed out in the piece.

mq9reaper
03-22-2013, 6:57 AM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?


We would be... if the politicians in control (read Democrats) didn't waste all of our money. I think CA's deficit was around $16,000,000,000 in 2012. While we have the potential to be great, we have yet to see it.

diveRN
03-22-2013, 6:57 AM
... and to think, some people actually call me crazy for wanting to leave the state.

Unfortunately, the state is lost for the foreseeable future.

michiganboy
03-22-2013, 7:01 AM
I haven't heard anyone around where I live agree with all these stricter gun laws being a good thing. These polls are mostly taken from where? I have never been asked about a poll, is that because I'm at work?

LuvLRBs
03-22-2013, 7:04 AM
I notice a large number of people on these boards jump on anything that refers to Hispanics politically supporting gun control, as if it's racist to point it out. This video points it out, don't shoot the messenger. If cultural and racial background contributes to the anti-gun mentality, is it beneficial to be so PC that one is not allowed to talk about it? To those wonderful posters here of Hispanic ethnicity, bless you! Please speak to your neighbors and friends who share your background and try to explain the constitution. Seems they either don't understand it or choose to ignore it.

sakosf
03-22-2013, 7:05 AM
The poll results are a given considering the make up of the Legislature & other State wide elected officials.....they are a reflection of the electorate in CA

ddestruel
03-22-2013, 7:06 AM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?


California's economy is the eighth largest economy in the world (2011), if the states of the U.S. were compared with other countries. California ranks 12th among the 50 states in terms of GDP per capita. As of 2010, the gross state product (GSP) was about $1.9 trillion.


CA has the some of the highest personal income taxes, one of the highest combined sales tax rates and recently took the award for highest fuel tax of all 50 states


And we still cant get into the black ink........ But we do find time to micro manage and regulate businesses to death, not do anything about the spiraling costs of workers comp and pass lots of onerous gun regulations that essentially reek of the Jim crow laws addressing people of color in the late 1800's and early 1900's

We are now a minority group that is excercizing our right that is constitutionally recognized only to be taxed and regulated away from that right. Anyone who's ever studied all the tactics that were used to keep people of color away from voting booths, tests, certifications, registration gimics and poll taxes can see the similarity to what is being done to us today. and the arguement then was similar "those people cant be trusted to vote they are a danger to society" And guess what it was popular back then too

Full Clip
03-22-2013, 7:09 AM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

Specifically because Democrats can't believe any minority would not be a flaming lib and not follow their agenda in absolute lockstep. So a minority owning guns or supporting any so-called "conservative" value or belief is unthinkable.
In short, if you're not white, the Dems fully believe they own your ***.

DTOM CA!
03-22-2013, 7:15 AM
I would love to see the specifics in the poll. Was it all over CA or just in big cities ? How many did they poll ? If I hear "Common sense gun laws" again I am going to throw up. How about "are you in favor of unconstitutional god given 2A laws that makes it much harder for law abiding citizens to purchase hunting, recreational and defense weapons ?"

SilverTauron
03-22-2013, 7:19 AM
I would love to see the specifics in the poll. Was it all over CA or just in big cities ? How many did they poll ? If I hear "Common sense gun laws" again I am going to throw up. How about "are you in favor of unconstitutional god given 2A laws that makes it much harder for law abiding citizens to purchase hunting, recreational and defense weapons ?"

On this very "RKBA ACTIVIST" website, the one with "GUNS" in the title, a random poll on Federal BG Checks was 50/50 for and against. Remember, this website is the nexus for California gun owners to argue against infringement.

Is it so hard to believe that the average Joe Sixpack in California supports outright prohibition?

Sinestr
03-22-2013, 7:19 AM
I don't find this surprising consider the source of the poll and the article. The problem is when these polls are done they ask a very narrow range of questions, and to the uniformed California voter it's easy to answer feel good questions. I would say your average Ca voter doesn't even realize we have the most stringent gun laws in the nation, let alone the the confusing details of our laws. The problem then is this crap gets spewed like it's the holy gospel continuing the confusion. Point in case in the video she says Californians overwhelmingly support universal background checks, well we already have those. As far as I'm concerned real journalism is dead and everything is agenda driven rather then fact driven.

glocksmith
03-22-2013, 7:22 AM
Skewered poll, LA times is hard left. Bet they didn't poll one person North of Sacramento.

epilepticninja
03-22-2013, 7:27 AM
I refuse to watch it because I know it will piss me off more than I'm already pissed off about being stuck in this state. Other than harrassing my political body and donating to the cause, I don't know what else to do but fume in frustration. I mean really, how much ****ing further can we have our rights restricted other than a full out ban of all guns? (which is what we all know is the end game here in the great state of Kalifornication.) And I used to really love living in this state...

Full Clip
03-22-2013, 7:27 AM
I notice a large number of people on these boards jump on anything that refers to Hispanics politically supporting gun control, as if it's racist to point it out. This video points it out, don't shoot the messenger. If cultural and racial background contributes to the anti-gun mentality, is it beneficial to be so PC that one is not allowed to talk about it? To those wonderful posters here of Hispanic ethnicity, bless you! Please speak to your neighbors and friends who share your background and try to explain the constitution. Seems they either don't understand it or choose to ignore it.

Because of the overwhelmingly negative experiences many minority groups have with guns in "their" communities, it's no surprise that many of them want stronger gun control. Take a short tour of the Homicide Report (http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/)on the LA Times web site and you'll notice that about 9 of 10 murders by gun (http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/cause/gunshot/) in LA country are committed against black or latino victims. So is it any wonder that the voting-age, politically active people in those areas are anti-gun?

For many of them, this is not an theoretical/ideological/semantics issue involving the Constitution. It's what they perceive as a life or death struggle to survive, and they are willing to abandon a "right" do not want for what they think will give them "security."

My Dominican girlfriend grew up in a very poor neighborhood that had plenty of gun violence. As a little girl, she saw people murdered on her street and knew a number of people who were involved in gun crimes (usually associated with drug activity, of course). When we started dating, she was terrified by my guns because she only associated them with her negative experiences. But over time she has come to understand that I have a different background and experience with firearms (in part because I come from a LEO family and am a hunter), and that I'm safely using and storing them. She'd never seen that sort of behavior before.

Not saying I have the answers here, but we need to understand the mindset of those who oppose us in order to counter them effectively.

HapaMan
03-22-2013, 7:27 AM
Good job eating where you sh*t libs.

serjm1a1
03-22-2013, 7:30 AM
This is a HATE campaign. Pure hate. If the majority of gun owners were black, or the majority Hispanic, or the majority Asian, the media and politicians would be screaming RACISM all over the place. I have never in my life seen anything like this. We're not talking about one or two laws here, we're talking about making life absolutely miserable for a subgroup of society with a large number of punitive laws against people who have broken no law. They are simply hated by the now majority. I sure wish a few Latino leaders would come forward and speak out against this hatred instead of fueling the fires of it.

I'm Mexican American and I own nice size collection of firearms, as does my cousin, my brother in-law and my girlfriend who is Asian. We all support our 2nd A rights.

BBJohnnyT
03-22-2013, 7:36 AM
Wow, they actually approved my comment on this Youtube video. Usually libs on Youtube and Facebook don't allow comments, or just outright delete opposing views and ban folks.

bg
03-22-2013, 7:38 AM
What is this crap about having to be licensed and carry insurance ?
I don't see very well, but sat THESE parts in the "article"

It seemed VERY one sided.

zhyla
03-22-2013, 7:43 AM
Why get worked up over a poll? Accurate or not, if they put it to a popular vote we'd probably lose most of our gun rights. So what? Were you deluded and thought that most Californians care about gun rights? That's why CGF and SAF aren't pouring money into lobbying but into litigating.

MolonLabe2008
03-22-2013, 7:54 AM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth

Wrong. Today California comes in 8th. Back in the 80's, it was 5th. So, the Democrats have been dragging down California with its taxes, fees, regulations and nonexistent illegal immigration enforcement.

California economy ranking in the world (http://econpost.com/californiaeconomy/california-economy-ranking-among-world-economies)

Here's more evidence that the California Democrat party has ruined California...

California named worst state for business in magazine survey (http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-worst-state-20120502,0,461178.story)

The Great California Exodus (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304444604577340531861056966.html)

California, a bad bet for business (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/13/opinion/la-oe-schiller-california-is-bad-for-business-20120313)

254 companies left California in 2011 (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html)

California — toxic for business (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/14/opinion/la-oe-cox-malanga-california-business-20111114)

neomedic
03-22-2013, 7:59 AM
I believe the reason most "Californians" favor tighter gun control or an all out ban is because most don't own guns. I'm sure party lines have some influence, but it's a lot easier to "give up" something when you don't use it or care for it. As in 26% vs 36% of households owning guns in California compared to the nation, respectively.

So I feel an important initial step would be to change the culture and the mind-set of next generation. Namely, that guns are not inherently evil in themselves. That shooting sports are fun and being to challenge yourself to shoot tighter groups and whatnot.

MolonLabe2008
03-22-2013, 8:11 AM
I questioning the OP's motive.

Hoop
03-22-2013, 8:21 AM
Translation: minorities control California, they don't like guns

LOL

Tons of minorities out there with guns, they don't 'control' CA either the public employee unions do which is our biggest problem. It's not much different than the late 1800s/early 1900s 'Trusts' that owned the political process until TR broke them.

Doheny
03-22-2013, 8:34 AM
I questioning the OP's motive.

There you go again....

Posting an article from the paper that most here would not have seen otherwise? Yeah, a lotta hidden agenda there. :rolleyes:

MolonLabe2008
03-22-2013, 8:37 AM
There you go again....

Posting an article from the paper that most here would not have seen otherwise? Yeah, a lotta hidden agenda there. :rolleyes:

If someone is wrong, then they must be enlightened.

BHPFan
03-22-2013, 8:45 AM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

Bingo.

I've met many Asians, Hispanics, African and Native Americans that own guns.

If you all remember the L.A. riots of '92, lotsa Korean storeowners stood guard with guns. Last I checked, Koreans are Asians.

dc2integra
03-22-2013, 8:58 AM
Were are they taking these polls? BTW Im hispanic and I love guns so does my dad and my brother we are all gun owners.

hawk1
03-22-2013, 9:05 AM
There you go again....

Posting an article from the paper that most here would not have seen otherwise? Yeah, a lotta hidden agenda there. :rolleyes:

They're your boys Doheny. The ones you and your union support.

You very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history), but day in and day out you support these assclowns. Your payback for doing so must be better than your right to own firearms. If it wasn't YOU wouldn't be supporting them with your money.

CessnaDriver
03-22-2013, 9:15 AM
2nd amendment rights are not determined by a poll.

Bsandoc40
03-22-2013, 9:21 AM
How does one's iTrader stats identify an individual as a gun owner or not....

SilverTauron
03-22-2013, 9:25 AM
2nd amendment rights are not determined by a poll.

Tell that to the besieged gun owners in New York State.

nastyhabts26
03-22-2013, 9:25 AM
Last one out please turn off the lights

sholling
03-22-2013, 9:39 AM
Contrast that poll with this nation wide poll. Attitudes in California simply reflect the success of the media and educrat's all out war on gun ownership over the law few decades. We're winning the culture war within the nation as a whole but as long as the lefty media and Progressive educrats dominate thinking with the 3-4 of the largest population centers we face an uphill battle.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/22/polls-show-plunging-public-support-for-new-gun-laws-anti-gun-politicians-cant-backpedal-quickly-enough/
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/18/cnn-poll-is-support-for-gun-control-dipping/?hpt=po_c2
Overall, 17% of all Americans believe there should be no restrictions at all on owning guns. Another 38% want only minor restrictions. That works out to 55% who support minor restrictions or no restrictions at all, a gain of nine points since December. Thirty-one percent currently support major restrictions and an additional 12% want to see guns illegal for everyone except police and other authorized personnel.

hawk1
03-22-2013, 9:44 AM
How does one's iTrader stats identify an individual as a gun owner or not....

It doesn't. That's why I said in my opinion...

richard chese
03-22-2013, 9:50 AM
Is it so hard to believe that the average Joe Sixpack in California supports outright prohibition?


Sadly, average joe now wheres skinny jeans, drinks martinis, looks like he could be a homosexual, and voted for DOO DOO BROWN

-hanko
03-22-2013, 9:53 AM
Why get worked up over a poll? Accurate or not, if they put it to a popular vote we'd probably lose most of our gun rights. So what? Were you deluded and thought that most Californians care about gun rights? That's why CGF and SAF aren't pouring money into lobbying but into litigating.
See below.


On this very "RKBA ACTIVIST" website, the one with "GUNS" in the title, a random poll on Federal BG Checks was 50/50 for and against. Remember, this website is the nexus for California gun owners to argue against infringement.

Is it so hard to believe that the average Joe Sixpack in California supports outright prohibition?
The results of the Calguns.net poll still blows me away. HOW IN HELL can anyone logically post their support for less gun laws AND THEN come out in favor of universal background checks for all...including those of us who do just find without it now. :confused:


I believe the reason most "Californians" favor tighter gun control or an all out ban is because most don't own guns. I'm sure party lines have some influence, but it's a lot easier to "give up" something when you don't use it or care for it. As in 26% vs 36% of households owning guns in California compared to the nation, respectively.

So I feel an important initial step would be to change the culture and the mind-set of next generation. Namely, that guns are not inherently evil in themselves. That shooting sports are fun and being to challenge yourself to shoot tighter groups and whatnot.
After 10 or so years it doesn't appear that half of Calgunners polled have had their culture and / or their mind-sets (what traces might be there) changed.


Contrast that poll with this nation wide poll. Attitudes in California simply reflect the success of the media and educrat's all out war on gun ownership over the law few decades. We're winning the culture war within the nation as a whole but as long as the lefty media and Progressive educrats dominate thinking with the 3-4 of the largest population centers we face an uphill battle.
You don't even realize how steep that uphill is until gun owners favor background checks for the entire country.

Ignorant.

-hanko

osis32
03-22-2013, 10:27 AM
yellow journalism is yellow.

CessnaDriver
03-22-2013, 10:29 AM
Tell that to the besieged gun owners in New York State.

It's going to have to be challenged in court.
As we will likely have to here.
Doesn't matter what the polls say.

Sabesimpson
03-22-2013, 10:37 AM
I NEVER got interviewed or polled!! WTF

coma13
03-22-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm glad they approved my comment. Just a drop in the bucket, but at least there are other opinions being put forth that maybe someone will read and take into consideration.

mt4design
03-22-2013, 10:52 AM
2nd amendment rights are not determined by a poll.

EXACTLY.

Further, rights are not determined by a leftist rag like the L.A. Times who overtly and actively engages in extremist propaganda to usurp not only the Second Amendment and the Constitution but the laws of the state of California, the County of Los Angeles, and various surrounding municipalities of L.A.

Personally, I'd like to see them shut down.

Maybe there should be a poll on that?

Do you believe the L.A. Times reports balanced news?

Do you believe the L.A. Times should curl up in a ditch and die?

Do you believe the L.A. Times is a leftist vehicle to promote leftist propaganda and back leftist policies in the state?

illegalalienfromarizona
03-22-2013, 10:58 AM
Statist gonna state. :chris:

hawk1
03-22-2013, 11:04 AM
2nd amendment rights are not determined by a poll.

No, but public opinion is.

The sheeple need to be told how to vote so they can believe their thoughts are consistent with everyone elses...

curtru
03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
I haven't heard anyone around where I live agree with all these stricter gun laws being a good thing. These polls are mostly taken from where? I have never been asked about a poll, is that because I'm at work?

I think so I too have never been polled no one that I know personally has been and what right do they anti-gun ppl think they have trying to take my rights away I have committed no crimes therefore I should not be punished. What can we do as gun owner do and I'm not one to just tuck tail and run but its seeming like what will have to be done to servive and not go to prison

451040
03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?


:troll:

bodger
03-22-2013, 11:25 AM
What's a minority nowadays? because I haven't seen a white person in a few weeks.

Spit coffee on my monitor when I read that LMAO. I'm 60 years old and white and live in Los Angeles and I'm not rich. I think there is a bounty on guys like me now.

sakosf
03-22-2013, 11:34 AM
Sadly, average joe now wheres skinny jeans, drinks martinis, looks like he could be a homosexual, and voted for DOO DOO BROWN

Not sure if that stereotype fits as to what a homosexual looks like. The skinny jeans fad you will see a lot on a college campus. As far as martinis go....well, that sounds like what the upscale crowd is more likely to drink and......James Bond.

Milsurp Collector
03-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Dan Schnur: "In the United States of America, that assault weapon ban can't pass. In California, it would pass overwhelmingly".

There you have it. When it comes to guns there is the United States of America, and there is California.

bwiese
03-22-2013, 12:14 PM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?

Absolutely true - and few GOP people even remotely understand that their Red states are on 'general welfare' paid for by the creator/producer class in California.

Yep, WTF was ever invented in Kansas or Wyoming?

CA's state burden is stupid. But we far pay more (outgoing) than any incoming Fed benefits and are productive "in spite of ourselves".

The Shadow
03-22-2013, 12:27 PM
They're your boys Doheny. The ones you and your union support.

You very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history), but day in and day out you support these assclowns. Your payback for doing so must be better than your right to own firearms. If it wasn't YOU wouldn't be supporting them with your money.

How does one's iTrader stats identify an individual as a gun owner or not....

I was thinking the same thing. I thought iTrader was...what the hell is iTrader anyway ?

Doheny may be a lot of things, but I don't think it's fair to judge him according to his iTrader rating.

CessnaDriver
03-22-2013, 12:50 PM
No, but public opinion is.

The sheeple need to be told how to vote so they can believe their thoughts are consistent with everyone elses...

Four boxes rule applies.
Soap, ballot, jury, ammo.

Safe to say we have failed at the Cali ballot box,
which means the soap box didn't work so well, but we must keep on that. We are appoaching the jury box stage.

I guess the first three are all in play at the same time these days.

myk
03-22-2013, 1:03 PM
Something to consider regarding the Hispanic influence on gun issues: The Hispanic population, specifically the ones who were not born or maybe even raised here, did so in a country that prohibits firearm ownership by citizens-it's a way of life for them there that ironically still sees common citizens victimized by gun toting criminals and corrupt police officers. Once migrating here they would probably still harbor that same indoctrinated belief, still remembering that "guns are no bueno" as it was for them in their native country.

As for the rest of CA's population, there is no shortage of gun enthusiasts; none of us have to be reminded about the bare gun store shelves or the many threads here about where to find 'ammo at Wal*Mart. The problem is unity and initiative. I've met quite a few self-proclaimed avid shooters that aren't a member of the NRA, don't know about or participate in Calguns or any other pro-2A organization. As long as these people "got theirs" they don't think about doing anything else outside of that, for gun owners as a group...

ArmyofMike
03-22-2013, 1:09 PM
Don't these individuals of CA know we ALREADY have one, if not THE stricktest background process? We already check for the mental health issues in ownership/DROS....as they state that's what the poll was about.

Even the local radio is discussing this poll and they say "tighter background checks."

I guess that means when we buy a gun now, they will ask we have to s*** in a cup and pee in a dish....Or is it the other way around?

mt4design
03-22-2013, 1:33 PM
tides change I guess...

75% against
25% for

Trending now on their page...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217561&d=1363987972

Milsurp Collector
03-22-2013, 1:33 PM
Yep, WTF was ever invented in Kansas

http://www.outdoorbloggernetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/VintageLantern_HeroOff_7-001.jpghttp://s3.amazonaws.com/bzzagent-bzzscapes-prod/icee-machine-lrg.png



or Wyoming?

http://www.cowanauctions.com/itemImages/taa0338.jpg

Samtech79
03-22-2013, 1:47 PM
Is it just me or does that dude look like he's on the same drugs as Lanza and Holmes? He looks all wild eyed, like he's out of his mind. Doesn't look natural to me.
Can't judge a book by its cover but he JDLR.

NorCalMik
03-22-2013, 1:53 PM
tides change I guess...

75% against
25% for

Trending now on their page...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=217561&d=1363987972

Appears to be gone now...

otalps
03-22-2013, 1:57 PM
Absolutely true - and few GOP people even remotely understand that their Red states are on 'general welfare' paid for by the creator/producer class in California.

Yep, WTF was ever invented in Kansas or Wyoming?

CA's state burden is stupid. But we far pay more (outgoing) than any incoming Fed benefits and are productive "in spite of ourselves".

Except that whole "general welfare" includes things like military bases and National Parks, things the Feds are supposed to be paying for.

sakosf
03-22-2013, 2:01 PM
I am not a Democrat so I have no horse in this race, but when you say the Democrats have screwed this state completely up... I am wondering what you are referring to. California is the wealthiest state in the USA. If California were a country it would be about the 4th richest country on earth, and this in spite of the fact that California pays much more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal govt. As a country California would not have any federal taxes and so it would be even wealthier.

It is interesting to note that many of the states that whine the most about federal taxes, actually receive more from the federal govt. than they pay in federal taxes. But in any case one could argue that California is the most successful state in America. California has had a huge influx of people from other states because it is such a desirable state to live in. California is also the number one tourist destination in America, so if it is so f'd up why is it so wealthy and popular?

If CA were a country, it would be about 9th place measured by GNP and India is closing in fast on CA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_product

The climate & scenery make it so popular, along with the history of CA.....I might also add the liberal politics is likely to attract those from other more conservative states hoping to find/help create a Liberal Utopia

HBrebel
03-22-2013, 2:05 PM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

I am pretty sure that here in Kalifornia, at least so-Kal, the minorities are anglos and negroes. I am white, most my my acquaintances are white, black or persian, and we all enjoy firearms. That leaves asians and latinos.

sammich
03-22-2013, 4:14 PM
I am very familiar at the inner workings of these "polls" as I spent 12 years (started in the phone room and ended as director of data services) at a marketing research and consulting firm that served international clients. I was on the data collection and processing side, but I did get some experience in the interpretation side.

Unlike consumer satisfaction indexes, which can determine the success or failure of a company, most if not all of these political "polls" are skewed to get the answer that the client wants. Don't think that only one political party does it. Frank Luntz is an example of a "conservative" issues pollster. Do a search in youtube for the Penn and Teller Bullsh*t episode called Numbers.

Like the saying goes, the truth lies in the details and the truth in these types of "polls" consists of the verbatim questions asked, the raw data and demographics.

Just scanning over the crosstabs of this gun control poll, which is being used to imply that it is of the "overwhelming" opinion of all Californians, here are some notable data:

The poll had a sample size of 1501 which is .004% of the estimated 38,041,430 population of California (2012).

The regions listed for the poll were (no other details were given):
354 - L.A. County
449 - Southern California
248 - Bay Area
176 - Sacramento North
92 - Coast Central
182 -Central Valley

44% - 693 were registered democrats
29% - 475 were registered republicans
22% - 251 were dts/npp (no political party, i assume)
5% - 82 were other

68% - 1020 were NOT GUN OWNERS
26% - 390 were GUN OWNERS

19% - 125 democrats were GUN OWNERS
39% - 170 republicans were GUN OWNERS
23% - 76 dts/npp were GUN OWNERS
27% - 20 other were GUN OWNERS

In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.

It should be noted that the L.A. Times, which appears to have funded the above "poll", had 2 weeks ago run this editorial with no attributed author:

Peril from 'patriots'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-patriot-groups-splc-report-20130308,0,2444361.story

The article heavily quotes Southern Poverty Law Center (which in itself has a shady history) and equates those who are concerned with gun rights as being neanderthals and conspiracy theorists and also lumps them in with terrorists.

Yup, the L.A. Times is just reporting the news and not pushing a political agenda. Move along.

chris
03-22-2013, 4:44 PM
Brought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

according to some members who I will not mention by name but we know who they are Republicans are to blame.


and yes demoKrats F'd this state up.

foreppin916
03-23-2013, 2:46 AM
more like the countryBrought to you by the Democrat party, YOUR party. The one that has f'd this state completely up...

SanPedroShooter
03-23-2013, 5:33 AM
I am very familiar at the inner workings of these "polls" as I spent 12 years (started in the phone room and ended as director of data services) at a marketing research and consulting firm that served international clients. I was on the data collection and processing side, but I did get some experience in the interpretation side.

Unlike consumer satisfaction indexes, which can determine the success or failure of a company, most if not all of these political "polls" are skewed to get the answer that the client wants. Don't think that only one political party does it. Frank Luntz is an example of a "conservative" issues pollster. Do a search in youtube for the Penn and Teller Bullsh*t episode called Numbers.

Like the saying goes, the truth lies in the details and the truth in these types of "polls" consists of the verbatim questions asked, the raw data and demographics.

Just scanning over the crosstabs of this gun control poll, which is being used to imply that it is of the "overwhelming" opinion of all Californians, here are some notable data:

The poll had a sample size of 1501 which is .004% of the estimated 38,041,430 population of California (2012).

The regions listed for the poll were (no other details were given):
354 - L.A. County
449 - Southern California
248 - Bay Area
176 - Sacramento North
92 - Coast Central
182 -Central Valley

44% - 693 were registered democrats
29% - 475 were registered republicans
22% - 251 were dts/npp (no political party, i assume)
5% - 82 were other

68% - 1020 were NOT GUN OWNERS
26% - 390 were GUN OWNERS

19% - 125 democrats were GUN OWNERS
39% - 170 republicans were GUN OWNERS
23% - 76 dts/npp were GUN OWNERS
27% - 20 other were GUN OWNERS

In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.

It should be noted that the L.A. Times, which appears to have funded the above "poll", had 2 weeks ago run this editorial with no attributed author:

Peril from 'patriots'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-patriot-groups-splc-report-20130308,0,2444361.story

The article heavily quotes Southern Poverty Law Center (which in itself has a shady history) and equates those who are concerned with gun rights as being neanderthals and conspiracy theorists and also lumps them in with terrorists.

Yup, the L.A. Times is just reporting the news and not pushing a political agenda. Move along.

The new gospel according to the LA Times... Which has become little more than a tabloid these days.

What happened to California?

hawk1
03-23-2013, 6:16 AM
The new gospel according to the LA Times... Which has become little more than a tabloid these days.

What happened to California?

According to Bweise, nothing. We're in great shape, plenty of money, just paying out too much to the feds. :facepalm:

Kool-Aid anyone?...

Nick Justice
03-23-2013, 8:26 AM
Most Californians don't even know what gun control laws we already have. It's like asking asking blind people to describe colors. (No offense to the blind. I'm visually impaired myself)

Ask the people to describe the gun purchasing process in CA, or the storage requirements, or best ever, the "assault weapons" features.

You get blank stares, and about 34.5 million "I don't know" answers

advocatusdiaboli
03-23-2013, 3:32 PM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

I am a minority in the PRK too: I'm White. And worse, I am a minority within the White minority because I won guns.

advocatusdiaboli
03-23-2013, 3:35 PM
In the end this poll is a moot point, as the issue being discussed is a RIGHT not subject to a popularity contest or mob rule.


I think the Caliban in Sacred Tomato has other ideas: they are a mob and they make the rules.

Doheny
03-23-2013, 3:37 PM
Sadly, average joe now wheres skinny jeans, drinks martinis, looks like he could be a homosexual, and voted for DOO DOO BROWN

Quit pickin' on TRICKSTER!

;)


.

advocatusdiaboli
03-23-2013, 3:44 PM
LOL
Tons of minorities out there with guns, they don't 'control' CA either the public employee unions do which is our biggest problem.

So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them. And how did we get a legislature and state and municipal governments that over-spend? Liberal voters gave it to them. Want to know where the problem really is? Look in the mirror and stop passing the buck.

advocatusdiaboli
03-23-2013, 3:48 PM
I questioning the OP's motive.

Let me guess, you are a Democrat?

advocatusdiaboli
03-23-2013, 3:51 PM
You very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history),

talk about the wrong yardstick—I am a veteran, NRA life member, CRPA life member, and own a lot of guns yet I have a zero iTrader history and probably never will have one. You doubting me too now?

hawk1
03-23-2013, 4:55 PM
talk about the wrong yardstick—I am a veteran, NRA life member, CRPA life member, and own a lot of guns yet I have a zero iTrader history and probably never will have one. You doubting me too now?

meh, I said, my opinion. I'm entitled to it, and have no issue saying why I have it. I've been wrong before,

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Stirlee
03-23-2013, 5:06 PM
i love how they mention background checks as if there arn't any already.

mikep01
03-23-2013, 7:48 PM
if they want us to do it like a drivers licence and insurance a ccw should also be handed out.

bomb_on_bus
03-23-2013, 8:24 PM
This is a HATE campaign. Pure hate. If the majority of gun owners were black, or the majority Hispanic, or the majority Asian, the media and politicians would be screaming RACISM all over the place. I have never in my life seen anything like this. We're not talking about one or two laws here, we're talking about making life absolutely miserable for a subgroup of society with a large number of punitive laws against people who have broken no law. They are simply hated by the now majority. I sure wish a few Latino leaders would come forward and speak out against this hatred instead of fueling the fires of it.

Inadvertently through the disarming of the gun population you disarm everyone. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Whites, etc. have a lot to lose.

The 2ndA is a stop clause against the rise of a tyrannical government.

Reelemup
03-23-2013, 8:30 PM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

Me too...i'm white

MontClaire
03-23-2013, 8:35 PM
Why do people continue to say minorities hate guns. I'm a minority and I have a safe full of guns.

He meant to say the majority of your minority group.

451040
03-23-2013, 8:49 PM
So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them.


You are conveniently leaving out the part about the public employee unions' buying of pols with campaign donations and then those same pols giving the taxpayers' money to the public employee unions in the form of grossly inflated wages and benefits.

MolonLabe2008
03-23-2013, 8:56 PM
I could never figure out why the extreme left-wing Los Angeles Times is located and does their printing in the much hated Republican Orange County?

Can someone please answer this for me. Especially the liberal so called gun-owners who get their news from the extreme left-wing Los Angeles Times.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Los Angeles Times
1375 W Sunflower Ave
Costa Mesa, CA 92626

Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1375+W+Sunflower+Ave++Costa+Mesa,+CA+92626&hl=en&sll=33.604208,-117.657369&sspn=0.251346,0.528374&hnear=1375+W+Sunflower+Ave,+Costa+Mesa,+California +92626&t=h&z=17)

Doheny
03-23-2013, 10:32 PM
TYou very well may be a gun owner (my opinion is you are not, but that's only based on your ZERO iTrader history)...

<snipped>



Wow, you when full retard with that comment. I guess everyone with zero iTrader history isn't a gun owner. You're embarrassing yourself; back away from the keyboard before you say something else stupid.

http://passionweiss.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Never-Go-Full-Retard.jpg

DannyInSoCal
03-23-2013, 10:36 PM
The bought and paid for union owned liberal political hacks are gong to pass whatever asinine gun control crap they want...

Just remember libtards:

The half of us paying for everything -
Will not defend the other half -
From the tyrants you love -
With the guns you hate...

DannyInSoCal
03-23-2013, 10:46 PM
So wrong on it's face.

When did the unions create the laws that are ruining this state? WHen did the unions make their own retirement plans into law and spend, spend, spend? Um, they didn't?

Right—the unions didn't do it. The legislature did. State and municipal governments did. Elected officials did this. THEY gave the unions the money, the fat retirement, and the power. The unions didn't take it by force—it was handed to them. And how did we get a legislature and state and municipal governments that over-spend? Liberal voters gave it to them. Want to know where the problem really is? Look in the mirror and stop passing the buck.

Yeah - The CA government employees union contributed $30 million to Browns campaign - Then a multi-billion dollar 50yr high speed rail project from one crap hole to another gets pushed through.

Not to mention the bullcrap Prop 30 - Which personally costs me thousands more since it was retroactive back to Jan 2012.

Great return on your investment - If you are inside the union-politician-taxpayer funds money laundering scheme.

Makes for great empty rhetoric to regurgitate to your liberal friends - If you are a low income liberal yourself or an illegal getting benefits.

Sucks donkey balls for those of us actually paying for it all.

Enjoy it - Most of the tax paying citizens and veterans actually generating your gravy train are making plans to leave.

And watch for the legislative maneuvering to get around Prop 13 next -

You all just screwed your parents out of equity when the next property tax foreclosure wave hits -

And you doubled the cost of someday buying your own home.

Reap it.......

BushcraftToday
03-23-2013, 11:15 PM
People fear things they don't understand. People that don't understand are easy to pick out...just look at how they hold guns, what they say about them, and how they portray their owners! They skew facts to create more fear in those that don't understand, and drive them to their cause.
Every time I have taken someone to the range, explained guns to them, and showed them safe, fun shooting, they have changed their opinion.
We need to make it a point to show and teach our friends and family, about guns and remove that fear.
Knowledge is Power!


Sent from my Tactical Communication Device.

Commiefornia
03-24-2013, 11:21 AM
What PO'd me about reading this article was that it said even CA gun owners were in favor of stricter gun laws. IF this is true I will be moving out of the state I adopted to find another state to adopt.

sammich
03-24-2013, 1:27 PM
What PO'd me about reading this article was that it said even CA gun owners were in favor of stricter gun laws. IF this is true I will be moving out of the state I adopted to find another state to adopt.

I would take this "poll" with a Himalayan size grain of salt. They are deceiving by omission that this poll represents the opinions of ALL Californians. A sample size of 1501 equates to .004% of the total estimated population of California for 2012.. To put this in perspective, at the firm I worked at the sample size of a automotive customer satisfaction survey was 10k+ PER MONTH.

1020 polled WERE NOT GUN OWNERS and only 390 WERE GUN OWNERS. The crosstabs supplied by GQR DOES NOT have table of gun owner/non gun owner opinions on gun control. They do not have the raw data available.

You could just as easily go to OC gunshow today and ask 1020 people their opinions of gun control, then go to the mall and ask an addition 390 the same question. Slap a fancy company name on a letterhead, then write up a press release declaring that Californians overwhelmingly reject gun control.

Here is a hint of the agenda of who conducted this poll.

From the Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research site:

Who we are
http://www.gqrr.com/GQR/who-we-are/

"We specialize in political polling and campaign strategy, helping political candidates, parties, advocacy groups, and ballot initiatives succeed across the United States and around the globe."

"GQR remains committed to progressive goals, ideas, and leaders."

Here is info on the University of Southern California Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences:

http://dornsife.usc.edu/giving/

"At the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences, we understand that to make an impact in today’s global society we must move beyond the classical silos of academia. Our faculty and students come together — across disciplines, across continents, across laboratories, libraries and art galleries — to create, transmit and translate knowledge for the good of humankind."

Sounds all warm and fuzzy doesn't it?

SilverTauron
03-24-2013, 1:36 PM
Keep trying to take apart the poll if you want. The results of California's last elections is proof enough most people support total disarmament. Were it not for the Supreme Court , this website would probably be banned in CA already, to say nothing about firearms period.

-hanko
03-24-2013, 1:43 PM
Keep trying to take apart the poll if you want. The results of California's last elections is proof enough most people support total disarmament. Were it not for the Supreme Court , this website would probably be banned in CA already, to say nothing about firearms period.
/This.

Half of California GUN OWNERS agree that background checks are a great deal, but interesting is the fact that CA has had mandatory background checks for the last umpteen years. No demonstrable studies to show they decrease crime.

In fact, states without the mandatory checks may have a lower gun crime rate than states with the checks.

Thanks to the arse buckets who think the checks are good for all.:rolleyes:

R19
03-24-2013, 2:06 PM
They recently published an anonymous editorial piece that classified the white firearm owner as terrorists so what do you expect?

sammich
03-25-2013, 1:53 AM
The reason why I have been "taking apart" this "poll" and exposing those behind it is so that the information can be used to counter the claims that it accurately represents the opinion of ALL Californians, but I guess I am just spinning my wheels. Or is it a case of tl:dr?

Here is an example of what gun owners are up against::

"Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Executive Director and Founder of Violence Policy Center, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988

For the tl;dr ADHD crowd:
Sugarmann says to deceive and exploit gun ignorant people into supporting gun bans.

The strategy has to be expose the gun banners for the liars they are or employ propaganda to counter theirs. Either way it takes more than just passively reading posts on a gun forum. I have been trying to educate people about firearms for such a long time that I was around when that Sugarmann document was initially released. Unfortunately, over the last 10 years I have seen an increasing mentality in society of wanting immediate gratification or forget about it. That only works in video games.

Of course this is all just my opinion, which probably means nothing.

SilverTauron
03-25-2013, 7:05 AM
The reason why I have been "taking apart" this "poll" and exposing those behind it is so that the information can be used to counter the claims that it accurately represents the opinion of ALL Californians, but I guess I am just spinning my wheels. Or is it a case of tl:dr?.


When confronted with information, we can prove the validity of the claim by comparing it to other channels of information. If it matches, then the theory has merit. If it contradicts proven sources, then the claim is probably false.

The claim in this case is that most Californian's support civil disarmament. When we look at the electoral record, the kinds of representatives people pick, the reactions of Law Enforcement vis a vis gun owners ( OMG HES GOT AN UNLOADED PISTOL ON HIS BELT!!! FELONY STOP w/EXTRA BACKUP STAT!!!) and the cultural attitudes of even California gun owners ( more background checks, please) , we can see that even if the poll is a load of bunk, its claim definitely has merit.

If it were put to a popular vote and the law were enforceable, California would have banned civil guns outright years ago.