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PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 8:11 PM
I'm trying to coordinate a Precision Tactical Class 2, which will be geared toward advance precision shooting, ukd with no lrf, mid to long range shooting, off hand shooting, hold over shooting, wind reading, etc.

This should be a 3 day event, limited to a small group of less than 5-8 people that are seriously interested in fine tuning their skills.

Timberwolf will be teaching the course in an informal setting, but with serious "attitude" type instruction. This is not a free clinic, price of class will be determined (TBD).

Place of class instruction will be held at a private setting located in Techachapi. It will most likely be split into a saturday-sunday session, and a seperate Saturday session to complete the class.

So is anyone up to it?

Interest list

prc329(will pay saturday)
wildcard(paid)
mute
uclapliner
ar15barrels(paid)
cypress32
rksimple(paid)
djdace
me(paid)
Rhys898
hypertex (paid)
jicko(you can pay, and get a spot reserved immediately)
+ timber = 13 total. this is the maximium for this class. no more, all others will be placed on a second list.

additional interest people

mevale


k, looks like we got our 10 guys for this session. other interested parties will be placed on a 2nd list.

minimum requirements will be a ZEROED rifle capable of shooting 1moa or less. basic knowledge of mildot ranging, and shooting skills and dope of 100-600yard minimum shooting. if you can shoot steel at angeles, your okay. this is not the time to figure out your dope. we expect your rifle to be completely functioning, and zeroed for 100yards.

i've shot with almost everyone here, so i have no safety issues or concerns but a waiver will be passed out at the shoot.

camping will not be allowed. i do not want to sit in the cold, all night again. local motel reservations will be suggested.

cool fee is $100 per person for all 3 days of training. is this affordable or what?

all proceeds go directly to Timberwolf.

$50 down, $50 at the first day of class. fee is non-refundable, since it is a "limited" amount of people going to ensure proper individual attention. you guys won't find a better deal then this!

Prc329
10-22-2007, 8:12 PM
I'm in.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 8:15 PM
it'll be great for competitors, hunters, or anyone that just really likes to shoot rifles!

Cypriss32
10-22-2007, 9:02 PM
Shoot me in depending on price.

ar15barrels
10-22-2007, 9:29 PM
I'd be very interested in this.

rksimple
10-22-2007, 9:34 PM
Whats the subject matter? Advanced precision riflery? Fieldcraft?

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 9:36 PM
Whats the subject matter? Advanced precision riflery? Fieldcraft?

Ask Timber, that is his department.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 9:39 PM
i'm thinking more of advanced precision riflery. fieldcraft is more of killing people, type of stuff. good for hunters i would think, sniper tactics.

Ryan, since you already took this class at TV. just come out and shoot with us, and have some fun. no point for you to spend money on this.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 9:45 PM
ohhh one more thing, i am not taking any money on this. All funds will be going straight to Timber for his time and energy spent on helping us out.

small groups is intended for personal attention, so Timber can help out any individual that needs help with something.

rksimple
10-22-2007, 9:51 PM
i'm thinking more of advanced precision riflery. fieldcraft is more of killing people, type of stuff. good for hunters i would think, sniper tactics.

Ryan, since you already took this class at TV. just come out and shoot with us, and have some fun. no point for you to spend money on this.

Sounds good. I'm always down to shoot a little! I'll bring all my notes from TV to review.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 9:53 PM
Sounds good. I'm always down to shoot a little! I'll bring all my notes from TV to review.


mayby, you can help like an assistant to TImber since you already took the class. that would be cool, and no one can complain that you went for free. :)

Timberwolf
10-22-2007, 10:05 PM
Whats the subject matter? Advanced precision riflery? Fieldcraft?

That's open to opinion of the mass.

I'm thinking first a look at our weapons, including what goes into a SWS, proper care and maintenance.

Then advanced riflery such as proper position shooting with slings (prone, sitting, kneeling); off hand, supported (sling ) & unsupported. I have found that this is what most people who haven't either been in the military or otherwise been trained (small bore, high power, service rifle) are missing. Also a little more indepth look into wind reading, spotting and using trace, UKDs, etc etc.

Then some exploration into field craft such as plotting and AO on a range card, developing a "hide", moving into and out of positions using natural cover, implementing field positions for the AO - improvised positions - ruck, side prone, various positions using natural cover for concealment and support etc.

I don't really plan on getting into building a ghillie, etc etc unless this is something you truely want.

Unlike the clinic there will be a lot more field work so that when we are finished we've not only discussed it we've also practiced it so that all have a better understanding.

Thoughts.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 10:10 PM
too bad it wasn't in the summer, mirage reading would also be a great skill to learn. mayby next year in the spring or something.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 10:11 PM
That's open to opinion of the mass.

I'm thinking first a look at our weapons, including what goes into a SWS, proper care and maintenance.

Then advanced riflery such as proper position shooting with slings (prone, sitting, kneeling); off hand, supported (sling ) & unsupported. I have found that this is what most people who haven't either been in the military or otherwise been trained (small bore, high power, service rifle) are missing. Also a little more indepth look into wind reading, spotting and using trace, UKDs, etc etc.

Then some exploration into field craft such as plotting and AO on a range card, developing a "hide", moving into and out of positions using natural cover, implementing field positions for the AO - improvised positions - ruck, side prone, various positions using natural cover for concealment and support etc.

I don't really plan on getting into building a ghillie, etc etc unless this is something you truely want.

Unlike the clinic there will be a lot more field work so that when we are finished we've not only discussed it we've also practiced it so that all have a better understanding.

Thoughts.

can you imagine, 10 guys showing up to your match in a ghille. that would be just too much.

Timberwolf
10-22-2007, 10:12 PM
I guess y'all were posting as I was writing - give me your thoughts.

rksimple
10-22-2007, 10:34 PM
mayby, you can help like an assistant to TImber since you already took the class. that would be cool, and no one can complain that you went for free. :)

I'd love to.

Twolf-sounds good. Positional shooting, as well as extreme angle shooting (which we can do in Tehachapi) are not covered or practiced as much as they should.

ETA: Multiple UKD targets and setting up a range card to shoot at individual targets on command would be good. Timed fire on command would be good too.

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 10:50 PM
I'd love to.

Twolf-sounds good. Positional shooting, as well as extreme angle shooting (which we can do in Tehachapi) are not covered or practiced as much as they should.

ETA: Multiple UKD targets and setting up a range card to shoot at individual targets on command would be good. Timed fire on command would be good too.

and how about shooting under stressful conditions. i see this good experience for shooting competitions. my heartrate goes up like 200% when i compete. i gotta how to learn to keep that under control.

Timberwolf
10-22-2007, 10:54 PM
All these are good ideas and easily doable. We have a place, and a rough idea of what is want - when? Two or three Sats in a row, ever other week, one whole weekend . . .

PistolPete75
10-22-2007, 10:56 PM
i'm thinking 3 saturdays. starting, i dunno. mayby after the holidays, like in January would be nice. is that too far?

Prc329
10-22-2007, 11:14 PM
Sounds good to me and after the holidays is probably best.

Mute
10-22-2007, 11:22 PM
Hell yes.

Cypriss32
10-23-2007, 12:02 AM
We should do an thursday afternoon arrival, friday, saterday and little shooting sunday. Then the next week same thing?

Timberwolf
10-23-2007, 9:19 AM
We should do an thursday afternoon arrival, friday, saterday and little shooting sunday. Then the next week same thing?

Don't I wish . . .

Anyway after the holidays - sometime in January or even February is good with me. May be a little chilly but hey that's what long handles are for.

DJDace
10-23-2007, 11:57 AM
I'd participate in this. A date at the beginning of the new year would give me some more time to hone the basics and prepare for more involved instruction.

wildcard
10-23-2007, 1:09 PM
Don't know about everyone else, but spreading it out over the course of multiple weeks is going to make for a incredible amount of time spent on the road. Plus, I think it would be more efficient to have the course in the period of a few consecutively days maybe spread out between two weeks if necessary. Information previously learned should be better retained and time will not have to be wasted reviewing.

You may also want to have some pre-requisites.

DJDace
10-23-2007, 1:22 PM
Don't know about everyone else, but spreading it out over the course of multiple weeks is going to make for a incredible amount of time spent on the road. Plus, I think it would be more efficient to have the course in the period of a few consecutively days maybe spread out between two weeks if necessary. Information previously learned should be better retained and time will not have to be wasted reviewing.

You may also want to have some pre-requisites.

I agree. Speaking as someone really new to Prec/Tac rifle, the last thing I want to do is waste EVERYONES time having things rehashed or repeated just for my benefit.

Let us know what we should be up to speed on before hand, and arrange for it to be over 2 days with maybe a 3rd day the following weekend.

Timberwolf
10-23-2007, 1:29 PM
These are good points as it would be hard for me to get three Sats in a row free - How about the class being one full weekend - Sat & Sunday and then 1 add't Sat.

aplinker
10-23-2007, 1:31 PM
I'm very interested.

wildcard
10-23-2007, 1:42 PM
These are good points as it would be hard for me to get three Sats in a row free - How about the class being one full weekend - Sat & Sunday and then 1 add't Sat.

Sounds more reasonable to me and probably especially for the participants with familes. Church goers might be conflicted with the whole sunday thing though. Well.. can't satisfy everyone.. but sounds good to me.

Oh yeah.. night shooting should be part of the instruction. Not that it's too much different from day shooting.. but it'll be fun.

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 1:58 PM
i'm cool with that. i might be able to get 1 sunday off.

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 7:35 PM
cool fee is $100 per person for all 3 days of training. is this affordable or what?

all proceeds go directly to Timberwolf.

$50 down, $50 at the first day of class. fee is non-refundable, since it is a "limited" amount of people going to ensure proper individual attention. you guys won't find a better deal then this! :)

Rhys898
10-23-2007, 7:44 PM
I'm down for the second class, I'm having hernia surgery on halloween so I think prone shooting is out for a couple months. So if you teach another one in late winter or early spring I should be good to go.

Cypriss32
10-23-2007, 7:46 PM
Well Pete you can count me in for a 100.00 bucks. Were do you want me to send the 50.00?

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 7:46 PM
I'm down for the second class, I'm having hernia surgery on halloween so I think prone shooting is out for a couple months. So if you teach another one in late winter or early spring I should be good to go.

you'll be first in line in case someone falls out which probably will happen. keep up with the thread. most likely i'll probably squeeze you in.

Prc329
10-23-2007, 7:47 PM
Where do I send my money?

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 7:50 PM
Where do I send my money?

pm Timber for payment, i take no $$$.

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 7:56 PM
the rest of the thread should be toward any detail such as lodging, time, etc. also any suggestions of things of particular interest you have, mayby like moving targets or shooting at night skills and tactics.

gear that we should bring, clothing we should wear, etc. blah blah blah.

Prc329
10-23-2007, 8:29 PM
Another camp out? Night or dusk shooting would be cool. Anything extra we may need that we did not bring to the clinic?

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 8:45 PM
Another camp out? Night or dusk shooting would be cool. Anything extra we may need that we did not bring to the clinic?


too cold to camp out at that time. it can get freezing temperatures at that time, mayby even snow.

mayby a pack, like an erblestock so we can shoot decline and incline shots.

Cypriss32
10-23-2007, 8:47 PM
Were do we stay out there? Anyone got some ideas?

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 8:49 PM
ryan is a local, so he'll give you suggestions. there are tons of motels to stay at. buddy up, and share rooms. it'll be like $25/ each per night.

you'll only really need to stay for 1 night, like the first saturday "night"

PistolPete75
10-23-2007, 8:50 PM
Well Pete you can count me in for a 100.00 bucks. Were do you want me to send the 50.00?

pm Timber for payment. i think he takes paypal.

Timberwolf
10-23-2007, 10:46 PM
For those of you interested PM me for payment details.

Now a few particulars:

1. Class size will be between 5 - 10. We will need a min of 5 people and registration will end at 10.

2. Since this is an advance class per se you will need to have attended the clinic we gave or another type of prec riflery class. If none of these apply to you PM or email me and we'll discuss.

3. Once we have reached the min class number I will put together an equipment list etc for the class and email to all registrants.

4. The class will be in January on a date that will be decided once we reach the min number of students. Please note that since it is in January and the class is outdoors the date set will be subject to cancelation and reschdeuling due to weather.

PistolPete75
10-24-2007, 10:59 AM
For those of you interested PM me for payment details.

Now a few particulars:

1. Class size will be between 5 - 10. We will need a min of 5 people and registration will end at 10.

2. Since this is an advance class per se you will need to have attended the clinic we gave or another type of prec riflery class. If none of these apply to you PM or email me and we'll discuss.

3. Once we have reached the min class number I will put together an equipment list etc for the class and email to all registrants.

4. The class will be in January on a date that will be decided once we reach the min number of students. Please note that since it is in January and the class is outdoors the date set will be subject to cancelation and reschdeuling due to weather.


10 people confirmed, please check first posting which has been edited.

wildcard
10-24-2007, 11:06 AM
Camping in freezing temperatures isn't so bad.. but it's not for everyone. The only thing you really need is a suitable sleeping bag, any tent with a rainfly, and a mat to insulate you from the ground. Make no mistake that it will be cold and you will wake up occasionally.. but you get your night's sleep and will live to play another day :) Heck.. I just did it for two weekends! If you're spoiled, you can get one of those tent heaters and a cot or some other nonsense.. but it doesn't quite bringth forth the same survivalist/ hunter's instinct.

PistolPete75
10-24-2007, 11:09 AM
Camping in freezing temperatures isn't so bad.. but it's not for everyone. The only thing you really need is a suitable sleeping bag, any tent with a rainfly, and a mat to insulate you from the ground. Make no mistake that it will be cold and you will wake up occasionally.. but you get your night's sleep and will live to play another day :) Heck.. I just did it for two weekends! If you're spoiled, you can get one of those tent heaters and a cot or some other nonsense.. but it doesn't quite bringth forth the same survivalist/ hunter's instinct.


hell no, i aint' doing it unless someone has a rv. trust me, you will be much more comfortable in a motel room. only 1 night is needed.

wildcard
10-24-2007, 11:14 AM
hell no, i aint' doing it unless someone has a rv. trust me, you will be much more comfortable in a motel room. only 1 night is needed.

Yeah.. I remember when we were supposed to camp. I ain't making that suggestion to you again unless it's Spring, Summer, or Fall with temperatures dropping no lower than 70 degrees :) I guess when you get started in hunting, you'll require a cabin!

PistolPete75
10-24-2007, 11:16 AM
Yeah.. I remember when we were supposed to camp. I ain't making that suggestion to you again unless it's Spring, Summer, or Fall with temperatures dropping no lower than 70 degrees :) I guess when you get started in hunting, you'll require a cabin!

spring, summer or fall is good. i used to be a boy scout, and i don't like sleeping in the snow. you'll need a real good goose down sleeping bag for that. anything less, you'll freeze your butt off. i had a cheap $25 big 5 sleeping bag.

cabin would be nice. with a hot tub! champaign and a cigar too would be nice. i do it all the time at big bear! :)

rksimple
10-24-2007, 12:16 PM
The weather can get quite cold that time of year. Camping would require good equipment. A motel room would be the safe bet. I don't think my house will be done by then, but on the off chance it is, you guys are welcome to stay on the floor of my living room. You can fight for the couch.

Timberwolf
10-24-2007, 12:22 PM
I don't know about y'all but I'll be in my nice warm bed. My arthritis highly objects to sleeping on the cold ground.

That said I don't know about Tehachapi but there's a couple of good motels/hotels in Mojave/Lancaster/Palmdale.

PistolPete75
10-24-2007, 12:24 PM
The weather can get quite cold that time of year. Camping would require good equipment. A motel room would be the safe bet. I don't think my house will be done by then, but on the off chance it is, you guys are welcome to stay on the floor of my living room. You can fight for the couch.

sounds like a great offer. we don't care if there is no flooring. i'm sure everyone won't mind sleeping on the floor. :) ooooo, couch.

Jicko
10-24-2007, 12:34 PM
I wanna come too!

I didnt see this thread until now... :-(

I don't mind camping out in the snow, I've got all the equipments needed.

wildcard
10-24-2007, 12:37 PM
I wanna come too!

I didnt see this thread until now... :-(

I don't mind camping out in the snow, I've got all the equipments needed.

Got a winter tent? Dang things are expensive for a nice one.

Timberwolf
10-24-2007, 12:40 PM
Of the 10 or so interested people in the first posting only a couple have contacted me about the deposit for the class. Paying the deposit and/or making arrangments with me to do so is what secures your spot - so if you've not contacted me do so.

hypertex
10-24-2007, 6:00 PM
Oops!

PistolPete75
10-25-2007, 9:26 AM
Oops!

you can be on the waiting list, let me know.

PistolPete75
10-25-2007, 9:27 AM
i don't want to camp out, because i don't want the dogs to get all crazy again from the noise. then the neighbors might complain. forget about the camping idea.

wildcard
10-25-2007, 9:30 AM
i don't want to camp out, because i don't want the dogs to get all crazy again from the noise. then the neighbors might complain. forget about the camping idea.

Haha. I think everyone knows that camping is forbidden from Post #1.. but you know how it goes.. we always get off on some tangent and start talking about something else.. in this case: camping in the cold.

PistolPete75
10-25-2007, 9:37 AM
timber, please shoot me pm of people who paid their deposits. tnx Peter

PistolPete75
10-25-2007, 10:02 AM
class is closed to new participants. if your name is on the first page, you are garanteed a spot, but must pay Timber within the next two weeks to lock in the spot. other parties are welcomed to be put on a second list.

PistolPete75
10-25-2007, 10:03 AM
I wanna come too!

I didnt see this thread until now... :-(

I don't mind camping out in the snow, I've got all the equipments needed.

jicko, pay timber and your in.

DJDace
10-26-2007, 1:13 PM
As the most inexperienced shooter amongst us, I PM'd Timberwolf regarding my participation in this next Clinic. I'm willing and eager to put the time in between now and then to be up to snuff skill wise and prepared gear wise for this event. I left it up to him to decide if its feasible for me to be on par with you all.

Any pointers anyone can offer, suggested drills, gear I should aquire or even if you'd like to get together to do some shooting to show me the ropes I would be very grateful. Opportunities like this are the very reason I built up my rifle and became interesting in Prec/Tac shooting.

Either way, looking forward to being able to get out and do some shooting with more of ya :)

wildcard
10-26-2007, 1:47 PM
I'm good at applying theory to practice so textbooks work well for me. If you're like me or at least able to do the same, I suggest you read Military and Police Sniper by Mike R. Lau from cover to cover. It'll go over everything you need to know + more. I personally like this text a lot better than John Plaster's text.. though I hear that the new edition is pretty good.

Pistolpete may be able to chime in with his opinion on using it as a "beginner's tool" since I recommended to him also.

rksimple
10-26-2007, 2:21 PM
As the most inexperienced shooter amongst us, I PM'd Timberwolf regarding my participation in this next Clinic. I'm willing and eager to put the time in between now and then to be up to snuff skill wise and prepared gear wise for this event. I left it up to him to decide if its feasible for me to be on par with you all.

Any pointers anyone can offer, suggested drills, gear I should aquire or even if you'd like to get together to do some shooting to show me the ropes I would be very grateful. Opportunities like this are the very reason I built up my rifle and became interesting in Prec/Tac shooting.

Either way, looking forward to being able to get out and do some shooting with more of ya :)

Go to some matches. There will be plenty of people there to help you out. The APS match is tomorrow...

PistolPete75
10-26-2007, 2:49 PM
just shoot as much as you can, and come out and shoot with us. go to matches, and you will learn alot. who cares if you don't place well, as long as you learn it's all good.

ya come to the match. shoot, the first match i shot, i only had two months of any shooting experience! just come and shoot and have fun. :)

PistolPete75
10-26-2007, 2:49 PM
back to work, i have soo many deals in the pipeline right now... laters!

DJDace
10-26-2007, 4:05 PM
Well I will do just that guys. I'll keep an eye on when the matches are taking place and when people arrange range trips together so I can attend. I would have loved to come this weekend but I have a prior engagement that has been planned for more than 3 months, so if I ditch now the wife tries to skin me alive. And I am kinda partial to having skin.

I'm not worried about looking like a newbie, or placing terribly or anything of the sort :) I know I just need to get out there and get lots of time behind the scope. I really appreciate the advice everyone, hopefully I can learn alot in the next few months and apply that to coming out to the clinic.

Wildcard - I'll be sure to order a copy of Military and Police Sniper ASAP so I can have lots of time to absorb the information and practice applying it. Thanks for the recommendation.

I just ordered 100 more rounds of 123g Lapua Scenar's from Midway, they will be here 11/2. So with that ammo, the 100 I have at home and if I can meet up with thmpr to reload the 140+ pieces of once fired brass I have, I should be in good shape. I plan to hit a range next week ... some range, ANY range, and start shooting some distance targets. If anyone else is going somewhere and wouldn't mind the company let me know.

wildcard
10-26-2007, 4:41 PM
Bastard.. that lightweight semi is going to give you an edge in time and off-hand shooting :cool:

ar15barrels
10-26-2007, 4:43 PM
Bastard.. that lightweight semi is going to give you an edge in time and off-hand shooting :cool:

But it's going to hurt in stability for the long-range stuff, so it's a double-edged sword.

I've been considering putting a mil-dot scope on my AR-10 to come and play with you guys.

DJDace
10-26-2007, 5:15 PM
Bastard.. that lightweight semi is going to give you an edge in time and off-hand shooting :cool:

But it's going to hurt in stability for the long-range stuff, so it's a double-edged sword.

I've been considering putting a mil-dot scope on my AR-10 to come and play with you guys.

Yeah I'm really interested in seeing how it plays out. It's really twice as interesting for me because not only is it a semi-auto, but it's an uncommon cartridge as well. It will be cool to see how it stacks up against the .308 bolt rifles. Now I need to do my part and get the skills up on par with the potential of the rifle :)

Cypriss32
10-26-2007, 7:21 PM
OMFG AR10.....Thats so my next rifle. Ive sold off 2 things to get started.
LTR in 308, and my 223 varminter.
My plan is:
Rock barrel 22"
danielle defence free float tube
Vortex
POF USO lower
Magfull PRS
3.5-15x NSX NPR1
1.5# trigger

PistolPete75
10-26-2007, 7:38 PM
OMFG AR10.....Thats so my next rifle. Ive sold off 2 things to get started.
LTR in 308, and my 223 varminter.
My plan is:
Rock barrel 22"
danielle defence free float tube
Vortex
POF USO lower
Magfull PRS
3.5-15x NSX NPR1
1.5# trigger

one build at a time, but it's not important of how many you have, but how you can shoot with what you have.

come and play with us at the match. it'll be fun! :)

rksimple
10-26-2007, 8:22 PM
one build at a time, but it's not important of how many you have, but how you can shoot with what you have.



I keep telling myself that. I can't wait for my R&D .260 to be finished. Rather have one flawless rifle than a few halfway decent ones.

Adam-you coming to the match? Bring Phil.

Cypriss32
10-26-2007, 10:11 PM
Im ****ing working dude. I got major gayed, I have tues and thurs off in order to goto school from 8am till 6pm. In return i cant have that many sats off. So my saterdays are going for our class! I started cutting projects and selling other rifles to build the AR10.

Spdjunkie
10-27-2007, 7:14 PM
I keep telling myself that. I can't wait for my R&D .260 to be finished. Rather have one flawless rifle than a few halfway decent ones. "rksimple", Gotta love the .260. I'm pretty sure I'm also going the .260 route as well for another rig. Of course Everything Built by Randy "HateCA" @ R&D Precision

Hope to meet you guys one of these days out at ASR, APS or ---..... Once my schedule opens up.

Have a good one,
F.T.K.