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AJAX22
10-21-2007, 6:00 PM
I know that CA measures overall length with the stock folded and feds measure overall length with the stock extended,

but on a registerd AW, does the rifle conform to the state or federal definition of 26 inch overall length?

does its status as a registerd assult weapon exempt it from the state requirement to meet 26 inch OAL with stock folded?

I tried to search for this but didn't find anthing.

any help or links to the relevent code sections would be appriciated.

CSDGuy
10-21-2007, 6:57 PM
If the OAL is less than 26", the rifle probably ceases to be an "ordinary" rifle and probably becomes a NFA controlled rifle. If the barrel is 16" or greater, it probably can't be strictly speaking, an SBR, but certainly it'd be a rifle that is too short in any event. AW status with California probably would not figure into a rifle's status as an NFA rifle...

Food for thought

leelaw
10-21-2007, 7:42 PM
It needs to meet both. For a CA AW, it needs to be 26" OAL with the stock collapsed/folded/etc.

The barrel must be at least 16".

It must also measure at least 26" OAL with the stock open (Fed) but that's an easy accomplishment if you follow CA regulations.

CSDGuy
10-21-2007, 8:04 PM
With a barrel of 16" or greater and a collapsed stock OAL of 26" or greater (meets CA standards) the rifle WILL meet Fed standard with the stock extended. California AW status would not likely be an issue one way or another. Go below those measurements and other laws will come into play.

AJAX22
10-21-2007, 9:15 PM
Thats what I thought it was.... I was just hoping that there was an obscure passage which somehow negated the CA measuring rule of stock closed for registered AW's...

XDshooter
10-22-2007, 12:16 AM
WOH there guys!

Assault Weapon is:(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
26" OAL is the federal regulation and the california regulation for non semiauto centerfire rifles for SBR.

leelaw
10-22-2007, 12:22 AM
WOH there guys!

Assault Weapon is:(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
26" OAL is the federal regulation and the california regulation for non semiauto centerfire rifles for SBR.

The OP asked about a registered AW. Since registered AWs are exempted from the section defining what an AW is (what would normally be a prohibitive modification to a non-AW firearm) they can be shortened down to an OAL of 26"

Below 26" OAL is an SBR/SBS and an AW is not exempted from following those restrictions.

AJAX22
10-22-2007, 8:46 AM
Don't worry guys, I don't have a reg AW (but a friend of mine who is working on a project does) I know about the 30 inch length rule and My 9mm carbine is 31 inches long, as is my M4gery.

I just didn't know if AW overall length was measured differently from standard rifle OAL.

Or if the means of measuring AW overall length was even specified under the state law.

XDshooter
10-22-2007, 10:25 AM
The OP asked about a registered AW. Since registered AWs are exempted from the section defining what an AW is (what would normally be a prohibitive modification to a non-AW firearm) they can be shortened down to an OAL of 26"

Below 26" OAL is an SBR/SBS and an AW is not exempted from following those restrictions.


I totally missed the "Reg" part.

aplinker
10-22-2007, 1:44 PM
Here's the relevant PC

(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:< span class="description">(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches. (C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive. (E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

It's odd they don't describe their process for measuring AND they use one, apparently, different from the Fed.

Sydwaiz
10-22-2007, 4:56 PM
On a registered AW it follows fed guidelines so, (1) the barrel must be a minimum of 16", (2) It must be atleast 26" with the stock open.

I love my registered AWs! :D

AJAX22
10-22-2007, 5:26 PM
On a registered AW it follows fed guidelines so, (1) the barrel must be a minimum of 16", (2) It must be atleast 26" with the stock open.

I love my registered AWs! :D

See, this is where the confusion lies.

Is it the fed guidelines for OAL on an AW? or is it state?

There is a chance you might have a rifle that is too short under CA law if the state measurement system is applicable....

I keep thinking about all those reg AW AK underfolders that are out there... I don't think those meet 26 inches with the stock folded.. are they too short under CA law?

It would be nice if Fed law ruled on registered AW's

bwiese
10-22-2007, 5:51 PM
For rifles, CA and Fed min bbl lengths are 16". Shotguns are 18".

For overall length, Feds just care that your rifle is 26" OAL unfolded, and if it folds shorter than that, fine.

For non-AW semiauto centerfire rifles in CA, the min OAL is 30" when *folded*.

For reg'd AWs, the min OAL is 26" when *folded*.

For non-semiauto/noncenterfire rifles, the min OAL is 26" when *folded*.

Broadly:
- Feds like the rifle to be 26" min length 'somehow', regardless of folded state.
- CA doesn't want the rifle to become shorter than min OAL when folded.

AJAX22
10-22-2007, 6:27 PM
Is there a specific code section that specifies that a rifle be measured when folded? or is it just an administrative decision that was made

bwiese
10-22-2007, 6:35 PM
Is there a specific code section that specifies that a rifle be measured when folded? or is it just an administrative decision that was made

It was case law that went up thru some level of appeal - People v. Rooney, I believe.

AJAX22
10-22-2007, 6:55 PM
Wow, bill you were right about the case.... I just read the ruling.... thats some of the most tortured logic I've ever seen.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/people_v_rooney.txt

Whoever was the defendants lawyer managed to screw us all with his incompitance... How in the heck could he not bring up federal case history and BATFE guidelines for determining OAL.... thats just incompetance.

Sydwaiz
10-24-2007, 9:50 PM
For rifles, CA and Fed min bbl lengths are 16". Shotguns are 18".

For overall length, Feds just care that your rifle is 26" OAL unfolded, and if it folds shorter than that, fine.

For non-AW semiauto centerfire rifles in CA, the min OAL is 30" when *folded*.

For reg'd AWs, the min OAL is 26" when *folded*.

For non-semiauto/noncenterfire rifles, the min OAL is 26" when *folded*.

Broadly:
- Feds like the rifle to be 26" min length 'somehow', regardless of folded state.
- CA doesn't want the rifle to become shorter than min OAL when folded.

Do you mean *unfolded* or are you saying that anyone with a registered AK with an underfolder or registered AR with a ZM weapon system is in violation of the law? Because both would be around 25" especially the AK. Just need to know!

ar15barrels
10-24-2007, 10:16 PM
Whoever was the defendants lawyer managed to screw us all with his incompitance... How in the heck could he not bring up federal case history and BATFE guidelines for determining OAL.... thats just incompetance.

Sure would be nice if CA followed the federal guidelines with respect to measurement of OAL...