PDA

View Full Version : microstamping bill


1911whore
10-19-2007, 7:49 PM
What is it about the bill that is causing the buying frenzy? I guess I dont understand. I have read what i can find and dont really understand please enlighten me. Cause god knows I need an excuse to buy a new sig 226

FinweElensar
10-19-2007, 8:08 PM
I don't understand it either.

Whatever's on the list will be there forever... UNTIL they come up with another bull**** law, and they require whatever's on the list to have microstamping, magazine disconnect, bullet/chamber indicator too.

internet_user
10-19-2007, 8:16 PM
i think people are worried about the price of handguns rising or manufacturers not shipping to CA at all.

Jedi
10-19-2007, 9:20 PM
The primary concern I have heard expressed, in regards to microstamping, is that the cost involved in re-engineering the firing pin and in having to serialize all firing pins for the wide variety of handguns in the marketplace would cause the manufactures to either stop selling their entire line to the California market or sell only a few special "California Legal" models at a much inflated price.

Another concern is that of repairs. If the firing pin is the item holding the microstamping mark, how can it be replaced should it become broken? Would the gun owner need to send the entire pistol into the manufacturer to ensure that the integrity of the serial numbers is maintained? Think of what impact this would have on the after market industry, especially with 1911 based race guns. Then again, I seriously doubt that Kimber or Wilson Combat will be quick to comply with this, as it is totally unproven what impact this will have on the reliability of the weapon.

Behind the "good intentions" that our Governor believes the bill was developed with, it is laced with the hidden intent of making it more difficult for the law abiding citizens to purchase firearms. I can assure you that the the left is very well aware that the best assault on our 2nd amendment rights is not an outright frontal assault, but to whittle away at our rights, inch by inch.

So some, myself included, want to get what we can before our choices are cut off. The good news, however, is that they will be listing all of the OLLs in 2 weeks. ;)

cobra198
10-19-2007, 9:30 PM
Yep, from what I have heard it will be too expensive (and simply not worth the effort) for manufacturers to create firearms that comply with the microstamping bill. Tons of pistols will start falling off the Ca approved list... or so they speculate!

Roo
10-19-2007, 9:52 PM
Ok so do the law makers think criminals don't know how to remove a firing pin and replace it? With this bill I see a lot of knock off firing pins being sold with other peoples serial #. Wouldn't that be the perfect way to frame someone? And don't the law makers see the stats on how many crimes are committed with legally purchased firearms?

Librarian
10-19-2007, 10:16 PM
Look at the subforum on AB1471 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=125
and many of the questions asked here are addressed.

psriley
10-20-2007, 12:39 PM
Ok so do the law makers think criminals don't know how to remove a firing pin and replace it? With this bill I see a lot of knock off firing pins being sold with other peoples serial #. Wouldn't that be the perfect way to frame someone? And don't the law makers see the stats on how many crimes are committed with legally purchased firearms?

Even easier than that. BGs can just pick up a handful of range brass with 100 different stamps in their caliber and throw it around the crime scene. Of course, they'd use a non-stamping gun for the actual crime, so the brass would point to everyone BUT them. The more stamps, the more wild goose chases for the cops.

SemiAutoSam
10-20-2007, 12:44 PM
Sorry the term Forever and government do not compute.

If they wanted to change the list overnight they could do it with a vote and a signature of Benedict Arnold.

Come back to reality you dont have the RTKBA in the PRC its a modified right Hence not the same.

I don't understand it either.

Whatever's on the list will be there forever... UNTIL they come up with another bull**** law, and they require whatever's on the list to have microstamping, magazine disconnect, bullet/chamber indicator too.

RAD-CDPII
10-20-2007, 1:05 PM
Ok so do the law makers think criminals don't know how to remove a firing pin and replace it? With this bill I see a lot of knock off firing pins being sold with other peoples serial #. Wouldn't that be the perfect way to frame someone? And don't the law makers see the stats on how many crimes are committed with legally purchased firearms?

Why would the criminals care about changing the firing pin, all it's going to do is show where they stole the gun from.

RideIcon
10-20-2007, 2:53 PM
its going to be an expensive part, and most manufacturers will probably not even bother making a california legal version anymore and if they are they will be pricy....
BUY NOW

MedSpec65
10-20-2007, 3:47 PM
The new law does not address replacing worn or broken parts with the compliant technology. If you simply purchase a gun equipped with this stuff and you somehow lose all the embossing parts upon disassembly, you can replace them with stock parts without breaking the law. Other threads indicate this legislation will probably not be certified by The Office of Administrative Law of The Department of Justice's Bureau of Firearms because of patent encumbrences. Also, no manufacturer has announced it will re-tool it's facilities to accomodate this technology and the law clearly states it must be provided by more than one manufacturer. After reading the posts by some of the brilliant minds on this forum, I've decided we don't really have much to worry about until around 2023.

NorCalAl
10-20-2007, 4:30 PM
Is there a significant chance of the bill actually passing? I thought Arnie, while not exactly pro-gun, isn't exactly anti-gun either. And this law stinks of anti-gun all over it. Has he passed anything as restrictive as this bill yet?

CSDGuy
10-20-2007, 4:52 PM
NorCalAl... the bill IS law. It was passed, and Arnie signed it.

jaymz
10-20-2007, 4:53 PM
Is there a significant chance of the bill actually passing? I thought Arnie, while not exactly pro-gun, isn't exactly anti-gun either. And this law stinks of anti-gun all over it. Has he passed anything as restrictive as this bill yet?

Uhhh....He banned 50 BMG's already.

SemiAutoSam
10-20-2007, 4:56 PM
Al
If your talking about the Handgun Microstamp bill, It has already passed and been signed by Arnold.



Is there a significant chance of the bill actually passing? I thought Arnie, while not exactly pro-gun, isn't exactly anti-gun either. And this law stinks of anti-gun all over it. Has he passed anything as restrictive as this bill yet?

dwtt
10-20-2007, 6:05 PM
I don't understand it either.

Whatever's on the list will be there forever...

Keep believing this. They'll always be there for you, just for you.

MedSpec65
10-20-2007, 6:40 PM
Schwartzenkennedy signed the bill. It's law. Still must be certified by the OAL before it becomes enforceable.

NorCalAl
10-21-2007, 9:02 AM
I stand corrected. Even after reading your replies, I had to look it up - I simply couldn't believe it had passed. I've planned to move from the state I was born and raised in for some time, but now it's a certainty. Not just for guns and gun laws, but because of the beliefs of our lawmakers here.

From cars to guns to aquariums, California, er, um, leads the way in restrictive legislation. No one seems to care except the people who are involved in the things being restricted. No one is actually representing US.

For me, this is a sad day.

Greg-Dawg
10-21-2007, 9:35 AM
I stand corrected. Even after reading your replies, I had to look it up - I simply couldn't believe it had passed. I've planned to move from the state I was born and raised in for some time, but now it's a certainty. Not just for guns and gun laws, but because of the beliefs of our lawmakers here.

From cars to guns to aquariums, California, er, um, leads the way in restrictive legislation. No one seems to care except the people who are involved in the things being restricted. No one is actually representing US.

For me, this is a sad day.

Your response had just proven that the Antis have won.

As a Californian, I'm not going anywhere. I love CA. I was born here, grew up here all my life, I graduated from college here, I met the love of my life here, my relatives are here and bought my guns here. Just because some idiotic, uninformed and un-2nd Amendment folks have the audacity to challenge my rights doesn't mean I'm going to run away from it.

Try joining the NRA or go to the activism page or grab a whole bunch of your friends and start a movement and get your voices heard.

I'm sick & tired of my fellow gunners wanting to run away from the battle.

You know what's REALLY sad, majority of members here desire that option of moving out. It sounds like "Calgunners" are really "Cal-quitters".

If I offend, I apologize. But this is my opinion, so it's not FACT nor gospel. Just my observation of reading yours and others' posts in regards to leaving CA.

I'm anticipating to see how the microstamping bill will come into fruition. Right now we're speculating about company's refusing to send their products to CA, gun prices and crime statistics.

56Chevy
10-21-2007, 9:47 AM
Your response had just proven that the Antis have won.

As a Californian, I'm not going anywhere. I love CA. I was born here, grew up here all my life, I graduated from college here, I met the love of my life here, my relatives are here and bought my guns here. Just because some idiotic, uninformed and un-2nd Amendment folks have the audacity to challenge my rights doesn't mean I'm going to run away from it.

Try joining the NRA or go to the activism page or grab a whole bunch of your friends and start a movement and get your voices heard.

I'm sick of tired of my fellow gunners wanting to run away from the battle.

You know what's REALLY sad, majority of members here desire that option of moving out. It sounds like "Calgunners" are really "Cal-quitters".

If I offend, I apologize. But this is my opinion, so it's not FACT nor gospel. Just my observation of reading yours and others' posts in regards to leaving CA.

I'm anticipating to see how the microstamping bill will come into fruition. Right now we're speculating about company's refusing to send their products to CA, gun prices and crime statistics.
Moving out is exactly what the anti-gun people want Pro-2nd Ammendemt people to do.

SemiAutoSam
10-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Call it what you like but we dont have the numbers to put up a successful fight.

If all firearms owners could somehow get organised that would be great and maybe then we would have a good chance of winning but while there are guys like ZUMBO out there its a losing battle.

And I will repeat it as not everyone on this forum knows how the NFA likes to give concessions to the antis. This is one of the major points that put a bad taste in my mouth with respect to the NRA.

But the NRA had a major part from what I have read in helping enact gun control legislation.

Do a Google search on McClure Volkmer Act FOPA NRA.

Here is one cite of this fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association
The NRA has also seen internal dissent from its membership, including a Institute For Legislative Action, in leadership elections during the late Nineties [22] which Knox described as putting down a "mutiny"[23].

In addition to the generic criticism voiced by other more absolutist gun-rights organizations and public figures, Knox and his supporters allege that the NRA has failed to protect the rights of gun-owners during debates over proposed federal gun laws. They cite the NRA's involvement in the passage of the Firearm Owners Protection Act, otherwise known as the McClure-Volkmer Act, which amended the Gun Control Act of 1968[24][25].

Although this represented a significant liberalization of the 1968 Gun Control Act, the fact that the NRA did not seek its outright repeal led some critics, such as Knox, to assert that it had abandoned its members.prolonged series of verbal attacks and campaigns initiated by Neal Knox, a former vice-president of the organization who attempted to depose both Wayne LaPierre and Tanya Metaksa, the former executive director of the NRA's


Here is another article on FOPA.
http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html



http://www.answers.com/topic/national-rifle-association-of-america?cat=biz-fin
In 1986, the NRA had three million members and income of about $66 million a year. During this time, the group was sponsoring the McClure-Volkmer Act, which amended restrictions in the Gun Control Act of 1968 and was eventually passed. The group also fought to temper legislation banning Teflon-coated "cop killer" bullets. By this time, the issue of gun control in the United States had become highly fragmented and charged with emotion. In fact, the Association was beginning to find itself on different sides of gun control issues with much of the country's police force. In the late 1980s, the NRA ran political ads and direct mail campaigns against several police chiefs who favored regulating handguns.







Try joining the NRA or go to the activism page or grab a whole bunch of your friends and start a movement and get your voices heard.

I'm sick of tired of my fellow gunners wanting to run away from the battle.

You know what's REALLY sad, majority of members here desire that option of moving out. It sounds like "Calgunners" are really "Cal-quitters".

If I offend, I apologize. But this is my opinion, so it's not FACT nor gospel. Just my observation of reading yours and others' posts in regards to leaving CA.

I'm anticipating to see how the microstamping bill will come into fruition. Right now we're speculating about company's refusing to send their products to CA, gun prices and crime statistics.

MedSpec65
10-21-2007, 10:40 AM
I was raised in California too. I've lived here over 60 years. This State has been invaded by ambitious, plundering boll weevils with advanced degrees from every leftist-oriented Institution of Lower Living in the Nation. Believing the World Socialist Movement will eventually relegate this Evil Empire to the dustbin of history, they are utter cynics and have no qualms about appropriating our resources for their own personal use. Many have degrees in Public Administration and have taken over our City Councils, School Boards and State Legislature. The massive illegal immigration factor ensures these moon bats will have the votes to run this State into financial ruin, and they are well on their way. This country is a Constitutional Republic; they have exploited the electoral college system to insure people like us are vastly outnumbered, politically. I stay under the radar, and the last thing I'm going to do is advertise I'm a gun owner by walking into my local Police Chief's office threatening to sue him or his Department because he refuses to issue me a CCW permit guaranteed me by the US Constitution. These elitist scumbags are convinced they have the power to have the Constitution abolished within a few years, and modern history indicates they might be right. Back in the sixties they were amazed when folks like us didn't open fire on them immediately when they started their subversive crap right out in the open. As they have come to dominate the media and public policy their traitorous actions have become completely validated, so they keep pushing the envelope, like little kids, to see how far they can push us. They know we outnumber them. They also know most gun owners and patriots are people of honor, unlike themselves, and would only use violence as a last resort.

Greg-Dawg
10-21-2007, 10:51 AM
That's the dilemma we're in now: We don't know what our right are because it's been slowly been wasting away.

Things have gotten complicated and forgot the basics: Bill of Rights.

It's getting confusing.

SemiAutoSam
10-21-2007, 11:24 AM
GD its not confusing its just Government violating our rights plain and simple at every turn.

We supposedly have representation but if you look at it carefully we really dont.

What was the phrase no taxation without representation?

Well sorry but the congress does not represent my views nor anyone I know.

But they do represent big business and PAC's lobby groups special interests groups etc.

Pretty straightforward if you ask me.
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/billeng.htm

The Government as a whole is corrupt with what the majority of congress has done to usurp the US Constitution.



That's the dilemma we're in now: We don't know what our right are because it's been slowly been wasting away.

Things have gotten complicated and forgot the basics: Bill of Rights.

It's getting confusing.

Greg-Dawg
10-21-2007, 12:45 PM
GD its not confusing its just Government violating our rights plain and simple at every turn.

You're right. I'm just REALLY frustrated at this moment and need to have my "quiet time" to assess.

NorCalAl
10-21-2007, 4:02 PM
Sorry guys - it ain't only guns. We're losing our rights on every front here in this state. From immigration to animals (and I'm not talking about animal rights - I mean the right to own animals) to cars to guns to just about everything they can get their hands on. Nothing and no one stops them.

I've watched as the greatest state in the union has had its schools gutted. When I went to high school, there were three different levels of English class - depending on where you scored in the tests. Now, thanks to "but we're all the same" lawsuits, only the lowest level course is taught (so the majority can pass). Our smarter kids are left with nothing. I've watched my kids teachers say that it could hurt a kids self image to be called up to the chalkboard to answer a math question if they didn't know the answer.

It's not just about guns! You know, if we won the occasional battle, I'd be heartened to stay. BUT WE DON'T. We lose every damn time. I'm sick of being in a state where the overwhelming majority just don't freakin' care. And that, my friends, is the bottom line. They don't care cause they WEREN'T born here and never had the rights, so they don't care if those rights are taken. They don't care because all people do care about is making money, so don't touch that and they won't scream. The whole thought pattern of the residents here is out of touch with everywhere else.

I'm a quitter? OK. I'm running away? OK. BUT - I'll have the rights, even just across the border in Oregon, to own a LBR without having to resort to half-legal tricks. I'll be able to get the 49 state cars. The list goes on.

You "fighters" will keep *****in' that you're losing your rights (and you are). You'll just - well - keep losing. Someone said if we all rose up, we'd make a difference. True enough. And if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his *** on the ground when he hopped. Neither is going to happen though. Hey, but keep calling those who leave names and keep fightin' the good fight. Good luck with that.

chunger
10-21-2007, 4:32 PM
I'm staying. . . is it fun to be in that spot in a fight where you are outnumbered and scrapping? nope.

The rest of the country is heading towards shall issue CCW and other good places as far as gun rights are concerned. California is the chosen playing field for the anti's to "do their worst". Some of us are going to stay and some of us are going to leave. No need to beat each other up over it. If you leave, you fight a battle from a position of strength where your votes actually count, and you can bolster sales of "normally" configured firearms, you can get CCW, etc. If you stay, it's more of a political "guerilla" war in the jungles of legal action and picking at the cracks in ill-conceived legislation. . . skirting away from conflicts you can't win, but picking up small victories here and there and exploiting the many mistakes the opposition makes.

At some point, hopefully, pressure from the rest of the country will influence California. I'm hoping that wherever you land in the 2nd Ammendment playing field, you keep on fighting.

BaronW
10-21-2007, 6:12 PM
If my voice won't be heard directly, I can at least send a message by taking my UC degree and leaving the state.

socalguns
10-22-2007, 12:57 AM
The AG can kick 5 percent off the list annually

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12125.php

(c) The Attorney General may annually retest up to 5 percent of the handgun models that are listed on the roster described in subdivision (a). (d) The retesting of a handgun model pursuant to subdivision (c) shall conform to the following: (1) The Attorney General shall obtain from retail or wholesale sources, or both, three samples of the handgun model to be retested. (2) The Attorney General shall select the certified laboratory to be used for the retesting. (3) The ammunition used for the retesting shall be of a type recommended by the manufacturer in the user manual for the handgun. If the user manual for the handgun model makes no ammunition recommendation, the Attorney General shall select the ammunition to be used for the retesting. The ammunition shall be of the proper caliber for the handgun, commercially available, and in new condition. (e) The retest shall be conducted in the same manner as the testing prescribed in Sections 12127 and 12128. (f) If the handgun model fails retesting, the Attorney General shall remove the handgun model from the roster maintained pursuant to subdivision (a).


maybe thats why people worry?
Its like one of those list from the anti-gunnies that lists 5000 various models as guns you can still own under the latest ban (despite them all being antique single-shots and whatnot)

Librarian
10-22-2007, 11:43 AM
The AG can kick 5 percent off the list annually

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12125.php


True, but in order to be removed,the guns have to fail the 12127 and 12128 function testing. Unless the manufacturer fraudulently submitted test guns different from the guns available for sale, failing the tests is unlikely.

Applehaus21st
10-29-2007, 4:16 PM
Criminals will always find a way around the microstamping and this is why they are criminals. Hmmm..... I just watched the C-span on Gun microstamping briefing. And what if the criminal picks up the casings? I guess I'm not fully understanding the logic behind this law besides giving law abiding citizens a hard time to purchase or own firearms which is an infringement. Well, a lot of politicians will jump on anything that will give them the fame.

Sergeant
10-30-2007, 2:52 PM
A. Hitler, was not a German, but Austrian...
He worked out to have a German citizenship and become the leader...
What he did? We all know... (Guns only for responsible Gov. agencies - GESTAPO and such...). Every one is happy, no crime, no guns, just bunch
of freedom... Ya?
Guess what?
A. Shwartzneeger is also from Austria, Great little country which not only
produces great gun - Glock, but, also dictators... Ya?
If history goes by loops, He may be the first "Not US born President" or perhaps Canceler, and we all be very happy and united nation "finally"... Yaaaaaa?

Besides, you will buying a Gun and Engaving machine at once, and that is cooool... Hey let's put GPS and camera on it, perhaps MP3 player...
no, no, no... a cellular phone, so it will call to the police, every time you
pull the trigger and reports you actual coordinates, what a fun... Ya?

socalguns
10-31-2007, 1:50 AM
When Arnold was 9-12 (don't remember the exact year) his mother married a genuine NAZI, and folks don't think that had any influence on him