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Prc329
10-18-2007, 1:41 PM
I think I'm going to head out there Saturday. Anyone else up for it? I need to check my zero there before the match so I won't look like a complete idiot that day :)

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 1:49 PM
I'm working this weekend - I'll bring your books.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 1:51 PM
Cool. You open at 8? I'll try and get there around then.

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 1:53 PM
8 to 5 Sat and Sunday -

Prc329
10-18-2007, 1:59 PM
Cool. Gotta do some loading tonight and tomorrow.

DJDace
10-18-2007, 2:19 PM
Where is it located? If it's not that much further than Angeles maybe I will head there instead. I still need to see about checking my loads with a chrony :)

Prc329
10-18-2007, 2:22 PM
http://www.aplacetoshoot.net/

It is about 30 minutes further for me then Angeles. Hey, I do need to check my zero for the range for the match.

ocabj
10-18-2007, 2:46 PM
Saugus is a pretty far drive from Riverside. Castaic is just north of Saugus. I've been wanting to go shoot an HP match over at the Castaic range, but the idea of having to drive more than 2 hours kills it for me.

If you Saugus is a ok drive for you, you may want to check out Castaic too. I'm not sure how access to the 200/300/600 yard range works for members, but it's worth looking into if it's within easy drive for you.

http://www.brrc.org

From what I was told at the last WEGC HP match, the BRRC is working on getting 1000 yard pits built.

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 3:06 PM
Saugus is not bad from Riverside is you go the back way - 15N to 138W to Palmdale, in Palmdale stay on Palmdale Blvd it'll turn into Lake Elizabeth Rd and then turn onto San Franscquito rd and down to the range. :driving:

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 4:18 PM
if your going to APS, i will be there for sure,100%. when are you going, saturday morning?

i'll give you a couple tips on how Timber usually sets up the match. Timber, can you give him like position 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8? Those positions tend to have an advantage. You don't want to be first. (Reguarding matches, i think people with the most experience like Pasqual should always be shooting first, hint hint to Timber). :)

i'll bring 3/4 inch stickers for 5 dot drill practice. let me know what time your going.

DJDace
10-18-2007, 4:32 PM
APS is about the same distance for me as driving to Angeles. I'll see if I can get the wife to come along to APS instead if you guys will be out there this weekend. I'll have to see if I can drag her outta bed early again so we can get there at a decent time.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 4:37 PM
it's nice to shoot early. it opens up your day to do other things. plus the wind is alot better in the morning at APS.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 4:38 PM
you guys better know your dope from 200-300 very well in increments of 25yards. you will most likely be shooting paper, at like a 1.5moa target. if your off 1 moa, you will be assed out.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 4:47 PM
hey Timber, can we come extra early and shoot the 866yard target? that would be real nice, plus a nice little help to the newcomers.

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 5:06 PM
hey Timber, can we come extra early and shoot the 866yard target? that would be real nice, plus a nice little help to the newcomers.

I don't mind opening a little early. I need to check and see if we have any classes on cal for this weekend though as they start at 0800 and the people get there early. I'll s/w Bob in the morning and post up the results.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 5:17 PM
Cool. That would be cool.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 5:29 PM
C YA GUYS TOMORROW. I'M OUTIES. I HAD A LONG DAY.

Cypriss32
10-18-2007, 5:34 PM
Im thinking about going sunday if my Base from GLEN gets delivered finally!

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 9:27 PM
i'm gonna load up some 175smk. hope 43gr of rl15 gets it to go 2650fps.

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 9:37 PM
What brass & primer?

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 9:39 PM
fgmm and cci br, going out of my 26barrel

i got 200 of these to burn.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 9:42 PM
Out of my 22.25" barrel the 175s hit 2700 with 45.5g or RL15 with win brass and BR2.

Timberwolf
10-18-2007, 9:43 PM
I used to run 43.4 out of FGMM with 210M primers - got me 2660 out of my Chandler (20" Hart 1:12)

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 9:46 PM
i'll load a few up and see how it goes on saturday, and then go back on sunday to tune it up a little.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 9:49 PM
I'll bring my chrono so after we try and hit that 866 yard target we can test your loads.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 9:51 PM
i got a chrono too, the one you ordered for me. thanks for the offer.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 9:53 PM
the 866 is very tricky to hit. it's placed in a situation where if you shoot too high, you don't know where the bullet hit.

i've heard people say it's anywhere from 900 - 1050yards. i ranged it with the lecia at around 866ish.

plus there is some wierd crosswinds going on there, sometimes you have to shoot to the left a little.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 9:57 PM
We could spot for each other. Using my software I got about 23.25 moa for my load.

PistolPete75
10-18-2007, 10:01 PM
i would shoot a little low on your first shot, just to range it. can be fustrating if you don't know where your bullet is landing.

Prc329
10-18-2007, 10:05 PM
Well once Timberwolf gets back to us we can figure things out. If not we can just work on a few loads.

wildcard
10-18-2007, 10:27 PM
Cheaters! Tell me how many MOA you use :)

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 8:46 AM
OK, Bob and I have worked out some time for y'all to get your LR dope. By the way I've confirmed the range at 865 yards.

We'll open early tomorrow for those that want to get their LR dope. He and/or I will be there around 7:00 and we'll plan on going hot around 7:15ish and the line will remain hot until 7:55 when we open the front gates.

I need to know who will be coming and what I'd like to do is has everyone meet at the front gate and we'll let you in all at once as we don't want to leave the gate open. Once all are in and I relock the gate I won't be opening it again until 7:55.

Y'all will be shooting at the buff so that you can see your hits and adjust accordingly. The dope you have from the buff should be about the same as to the maiden during the matches.

Holler up if your coming.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 8:47 AM
oh yeah! i'll be there for sure.

i think i did around 28moa last time, since i was off 1 moa on my elevation. i'm gonna try like 29-30moa.

Prc329
10-19-2007, 8:50 AM
I'll be there with Bells on :)

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 8:54 AM
i just checked jbm, and it said 29-29.5 moa.

i'm gonna hit than dam thing this time.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 8:57 AM
can't wait till i develop those scenar loads later. flater projectile with less driftage. i can definitely see the advantage at the longer distances.

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:06 AM
What's the elevation there?

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:11 AM
HAHAHA, Google maps has you guys as A Puce to Shoot.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:14 AM
it's around 1600

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:17 AM
Dangit! I want to be there! All my crap is disassembled to get worked on though.

Hey Peter.. if you get the chance.. think you can try shooting it with your 168 SMK w/ 42.5 IMR 4064 and let me know your dope at 800 yds and the 865 yd target?

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:17 AM
that is exactly what i'm shooting tomorrow, no worries i got you covered.

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:20 AM
that is exactly what i'm shooting tomorrow, no worries i got you covered.

Cool. I owe you a piece of deer or bear meat if I get anything. Ok.. maybe not bear since i'm using a .223 Then again.. I'll have my .40 with me.. yeah.. bear too :)

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:20 AM
if you want, get your rifle put back together, and sleep over my house. 10 minute drive in the morning. nice and easy drive.

nevermind, looks like your going hunting! deer jerky!

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:23 AM
Cool. I owe you a piece of deer or bear meat if I get anything. Ok.. maybe not bear since i'm using a .223 Then again.. I'll have my .40 with me.. yeah.. bear too :)

your going hunting with your ar? will a .223 bring down a bear?

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:23 AM
if you want, get your rifle put back together, and sleep over my house. 10 minute drive in the morning. nice and easy drive.

nevermind, looks like your going hunting! deer jerky!

Haha. Thanks for the offer. My girl is on a business trip next week and i'm already gone for a solo hunting/ camping trip this weekend. Something tells me I better be buying her flowers after work rather than telling her how I'm not going be home tonight either :) Don't want to come home and find out the locks are changed!

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:26 AM
I'm going to load some 175s and 155s. That should be interesting. I wonder if my 223 would make it :)

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:28 AM
your going hunting with your ar? will a .223 bring down a bear?

I'd rely on my Double Tap .40 as my lifeline.. But a .223 sure will with a shot (or a few cause I ain't stopping till the mag is empty) placed correctly.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:32 AM
with your preban 30 rounder right?

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:34 AM
with your preban 30 rounder right?

Legal 10 :) Featureless is just not my thing.

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:34 AM
Nightforce is telling me it should be 22.50 to 22.75 minutes depending on what the elevation is. Google says about 1800 ft. If they are right then 22.50 if Pete is right 22.75. This is for my 155 load running 2900+ fps.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 9:37 AM
I would not trust my hide to a 223 against a bear. If you don't drop him first shot you'll piss him off and if he sees you and charges . . .

rksimple
10-19-2007, 9:37 AM
I'd rely on my Double Tap .40 as my lifeline.. But a .223 sure will with a shot (or a few cause I ain't stopping till the mag is empty) placed correctly.

What bullets are you using in the 223? If its power points, a couple in a bear might not be too bad. I'm heading out this afternoon for bear and deer. They already killed 2 bear out on my father in laws ranch...hope there are a couple left...

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 9:41 AM
dam all this hunting talk, makes me want to close down shop and go shooting! i just got way too much work today.

nayt,

it'll be a little cold in the morning, probably around 65degrees. it'll be 1600 around where we are shooting, and then it goes to like 1800 to where the target is at. cant is like 10degrees

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:43 AM
Forecast is for 52 at 6am so I went with 55 degrees.

Prc329
10-19-2007, 9:44 AM
I think my humidity is off though.

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:45 AM
I would not trust my hide to a 223 against a bear. If you don't drop him first shot you'll piss him off and if he sees you and charges . . .

Emptying the mag.. dropping the rifle.. and out comes the Glock :)

wildcard
10-19-2007, 9:49 AM
dam all this hunting talk, makes me want to close down shop and go shooting! i just got way too much work today.

nayt,

it'll be a little cold in the morning, probably around 65degrees. it'll be 1600 around where we are shooting, and then it goes to like 1800 to where the target is at. cant is like 10degrees

I think it's a bit more than 10 degrees of angle. T-Wolf should know exact. I'm going to guess something in the upper 20's if not lower 30's.. just basing it off visual memory. Of course if the calculations or correct, 865 yd hypotneus and 200 yds of elevation.. the angle would be about 13.3 degrees.

rksimple
10-19-2007, 9:51 AM
Emptying the mag.. dropping the rifle.. and out comes the Glock :)

Cali black bears aren't as tough or as mean as many think, unless you come across a huge one. There's a spot up 5 mi. north of the ranch I hunt, where DFG releases "problem" bears they capture from more residential areas. We see quite a few of them out there and theyre not too bad. Just don't get between a mother and cubs, armed with only a 223, or even a 40. Take the front sight off the glock...that way it won't hurt so bad when she shoves it up your a**! :D

wildcard
10-19-2007, 10:00 AM
Cali black bears aren't as tough or as mean as many think, unless you come across a huge one. There's a spot up 5 mi. north of the ranch I hunt, where DFG releases "problem" bears they capture from more residential areas. We see quite a few of them out there and theyre not too bad. Just don't get between a mother and cubs, armed with only a 223, or even a 40. Take the front sight off the glock...that way it won't hurt so bad when she shoves it up your a**! :D

Good thing I have the anti-snag tritium novak sights :)

So is this place open to hunting? Sounds comparatively like easy pickings.

rksimple
10-19-2007, 10:05 AM
Good thing I have the anti-snag tritium novak sights :)

So is this place open to hunting? Sounds comparatively like easy pickings.

Some areas are national forest, I think like 2 sections. But there are a lot of people. We have one section bordered by one landlocked BLM section and one landlocked railroad section. We don't usually go to the other sections (they're VERY thick with brush), just glass them and if we see anything, go after 'em.

BTW: 1 section=640 acres.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 10:26 AM
We had a few bears when I lived in Fr Pk. In fact we had one that used to raise hell with my dogs and trash cans (mine and a few others) that we all affectionately called "Elvis". RK is dead on about a sow and her cubs, learned that one the hard way hunting down near Lockwood Creek area. Mental note to file - don't try to shoo away a cub . . .

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 1:35 PM
So far I only see two coming out for the Sunrise Buff Bang - is that it????? this doesn't happen often so if you're interested in seeing how your rifle does at 865 yards let me know.

wildcard
10-19-2007, 1:41 PM
So far I only see two coming out for the Sunrise Buff Bang - is that it????? this doesn't happen often so if you're interested in seeing how your rifle does at 865 yards let me know.

Haha.. "Sunrise Buff Bang." I'm sure that'll make a few people out there come :)

It's a no go for me. Wish I could though.. dang thing has costed me too many points!

Make me proud guys.. bang the crap out of that buff with your sticks.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 1:44 PM
Hows that . . .

You ought to give up a day in the woods for some clang action - it'd be good to get this dope in your book for future reference.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 2:18 PM
CLANG, CLANG, BANG, BANG.

CAN WE DO THE 865, AND THE 800? THAT'LL BE JUST AWESOME. I NEVER SHOT 800 AT APS BEFORE. WONDERING HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE IT'LL BE FROM SHOOTING AT TECHACHAPI.

wildcard
10-19-2007, 2:28 PM
Hows that . . .

You ought to give up a day in the woods for some clang action - it'd be good to get this dope in your book for future reference.

Trust me.. i'm torn and want to.. but I need to get away from civilization for a day or two. Need to bring out that survivalist/ hunters instinct! Besides.. it's my last chance to tag out in D9.

Besides.. I almost feel like i'm cheating by writing down the dope without understanding why I can't hit the darn thing. Account for angle, elevation, distance, and temperature.. but yet nobody can hit the darn thing. People tried using their dope for ranges up to 1000 yds and still no go so it's not an issue with ranging (plus i'ved lasered and milled it for ~870 yds)! So there's a downward draft? Would I feel it if I stood up there? How would I detect it at another location that's visually similar? Or geographically similar? Under what conditions does it occur? How do I detect it at a distanceI feel like I should study meteorology to gain a better understanding of these variables.

wildcard
10-19-2007, 2:33 PM
CLANG, CLANG, BANG, BANG.

CAN WE DO THE 865, AND THE 800? THAT'LL BE JUST AWESOME. I NEVER SHOT 800 AT APS BEFORE. WONDERING HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE IT'LL BE FROM SHOOTING AT TECHACHAPI.

Probably almost no difference except for the thermal winds or topography causing air to come down/ over those mountains which may blow you off to the right about 1 - 1.5 Mil.

You may also be hitting a little lower due to the colder temperature and because the angle should be less.

I'm no meteorologist.. but i'll study up a little to see if I can understand what the heck is going on.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 3:15 PM
In the morning you'll be shooting the buff so you can see your hits on the hill (and I'm too lazy to carry that maiden up the hill at o'dark 30). I have spots at 865 and 770 (where we used to do it from) - 800 would put you right behind the office in the weeds and not sure if you can get a clear angle from back there, or how snakey it is. From 865 the angle (depending on where you lay) is between 17 and 26 degrees IIRC (don't have my book with me). We do have morning thermals that change as the sun rises and full value winds that also change as the sun rises. Not to mention the shadows that change all morning long. Bring your books, plot your shots and take good notes.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 3:49 PM
And yes if you stand up there you can feel all the above (try spray painting the buff at 0730 and you'll see what I mean). The trick is to watch the dust. As to how you know it - you need to have an understanding of canyon thermals is all I can tell you - as well as the prevailing winds morning and afternoon (experience with the AO).

wildcard
10-19-2007, 6:36 PM
I would like to volunteer to help paint the buff next time to see for myself. Wait a minute.. isn't it the maiden we're usually trying to hit? The buff would be easier to spot since it's against the mountainside and as I recall more people (including myself) were able to hit it.. but we're usually trying to hit the more difficult maiden at 865, right?

rksimple
10-19-2007, 7:24 PM
The buff would be easier to spot since it's against the mountainside and as I recall more people (including myself) were able to hit it.. but we're usually trying to hit the more difficult maiden at 865, right?


Yep, and with the maiden being on the top of the hill, with another hill 100+ yards behind, we couldn't spot our misses. Its a tough one.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 10:22 PM
We'll be going for the buff tomorrow so you can see your hits and walk yourself in for the dope. If I put the maiden up there it'll defeat tomorrow's purpose as you won't be able to call your misses.

Prc329
10-19-2007, 10:24 PM
I just want to add more distance in my sig :) Plus it should be interesting and a new place to shoot (no pun intended).

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 10:34 PM
It'll be different for you . . . our little canyon has thermals, updrafts and cross-winds.

But it'll be fun . . . hell I'm even going to try and get in a couple of rounds . . . I haven't shot from there since I graded it back in July . . . it'll be interesting to see who takes the least amount of shots to spank the buff. It got a fresh coat of blaze orange paint last weekend so it should still be glowing in the morning light.

Timberwolf
10-19-2007, 10:41 PM
I would like to volunteer to help paint the buff next time to see for myself. Wait a minute.. isn't it the maiden we're usually trying to hit? The buff would be easier to spot since it's against the mountainside and as I recall more people (including myself) were able to hit it.. but we're usually trying to hit the more difficult maiden at 865, right?

We used to shoot the buff from 770 yards and it took about three or four matches before everyone got their dope for it, that's why we moved back.

Any time you want to go up there let Bob or I know and you can walk the trail up. The buff though you best leave to Bob or I as its so loose around it we're about to the point that we're going to start rigging up to get over to it. We've already had a couple of close calls up there.

PistolPete75
10-19-2007, 11:14 PM
i just finished reloading for tomorrow. c u tomorrow morning

wildcard
10-19-2007, 11:48 PM
Have fun tomorrow guys. I'll be wandering the forest. If I tag a deer.. guess what we're having for dinner at our next scheduled desert shoot :)

Prc329
10-20-2007, 12:19 PM
Now that was fun, you guy missed out. The 155s shoot really flat. Took me almost 8 moa less then Pete. Got it 15/20 :) Took me two shots to hit it thanks to Pete figuring the wind.

PistolPete75
10-20-2007, 1:36 PM
it was fun shooting with you. i want to go back to the range, but i'm in tarzana now.

Prc329
10-20-2007, 1:49 PM
That M14 was a hell of a lot of fun. That was the first time I put some serious rounds threw her. I was pretty happy that the sites were dead on. I installed the NM sights a week after I got them and never sighted them in. I was 6 for 10 on the 400 yard target with the irons.

PistolPete75
10-20-2007, 1:59 PM
6 for 10 at the 400yard with the m14 is one hellav of a shot. off hand right?

Prc329
10-20-2007, 2:00 PM
yup. It was automatic at 200.

rksimple
10-20-2007, 6:49 PM
Now that was fun, you guy missed out. The 155s shoot really flat. Took me almost 8 moa less then Pete. Got it 15/20 :) Took me two shots to hit it thanks to Pete figuring the wind.

SSHHHH! Don't spread that around! Let everyone else use 168's!

Those 155's SUCK! Stay AWAY!:D

ar15barrels
10-20-2007, 7:22 PM
SSHHHH! Don't spread that around! Let everyone else use 168's!

Those 155's SUCK! Stay AWAY!:D

I'm shooting 155 MK's right now because I got them for 10 cents a piece in a 500ct box.
The BDC turret on my 3.5-10 M3 is roughly marked for 168's.

The 155's shot 5 MOA flatter for me at 600 yards.
When I zeroed at Angeles, I was one moa past the 500 mark and hitting perfect at 600.
There is six MOA on the turret between 500 and 600 marks.

Prc329
10-20-2007, 7:27 PM
Scenars have an even higher bc then the smks. Should be even flatter.

rksimple
10-20-2007, 7:46 PM
I'm shooting 155 MK's right now because I got them for 10 cents a piece in a 500ct box.
The BDC turret on my 3.5-10 M3 is roughly marked for 168's.

The 155's shot 5 MOA flatter for me at 600 yards.
When I zeroed at Angeles, I was one moa past the 500 mark and hitting perfect at 600.
There is six MOA on the turret between 500 and 600 marks.

Just wait till you try scenars. Its ridiculous. Wait...I mean...they SUCK!

Timberwolf
10-20-2007, 9:32 PM
I must admit I enjoyed shooting this morning with you two. Yeah I actually got to shoot . . . was able to spank the buff 8 out of 10 times. Missed the first (hey that was just a sighter) 2 - 7 clang (yawn), on 8 the sun illuminated the buff (was in the shadows before and the sun peaked over the hill) and of course POI changed just enough the hit was in the dirt, adjusted and 9 & 10 were clang.

My comeups were 27.5 elev and 1.5 MOA (.5 Mil) for the morning wind. My comeups split the difference between Nate and his sizzling 155s and Pete's 175s.

We enjoyed relatively calm winds while shooting this morning - however the wind this afternoon was blowing targets off the sticks.

By the way I now have some 155 Scenars - I'm going to try and work up a load with them and RE12.

Prc329
10-20-2007, 9:45 PM
I was shooting 23 moa at first then back down to 22.75 once the sun hit the mountain. I held left .5 mill and banged the buffalo :D Actually Pete was shooting 168s.

BTW, what was the gadget I need to buy that told you the weather Timberwolf?

Timberwolf
10-20-2007, 9:57 PM
There are several . . . Kestrel is what most people go with. WHat you saw in my book was a simple weather station (temp/Baro/humidity) that I picked up at Radio Shack. It does everything weather wise but read the wind.

Oh and thanks for the bullets :yes: Now to find the time to work up a load.

Prc329
10-20-2007, 10:09 PM
No problem. Reading the wind is the fun part. No need for a Kestral, the Radio Shack unit should be fine. Thanks for the tip.

PistolPete75
10-21-2007, 9:21 AM
i was shooting 168s. took me the 3rd shot to hit it, and i was the first one to shoot it. started out doing 29.5moa, then when up another .5 for the elevation, and then held over a .5mil for the wind. final moa was 30moa and half mil hold over. 168s can hit the 866, but it's not the most stable i think to shoot that distance. i went another .25moa up on the elevation, when the sun came out and it was still hitting it at 30.25moa. dam that was alot of elevation. i shot around 15 rounds at the buff, and hit 11 of the shots after confirmed dope.

DJDace
10-22-2007, 5:08 PM
Would have loved to come, but I can't get out on my own and there is no way I can convince anyone else that getting up at 6am to go shooting is worth it.

Ended up going to Angeles on Saturday instead and the 60mph winds made paper target shooting impossible. My PVC target was blown over twice before the cease fire ended, which ended up being alright as I just shot steel instead. The 6.5 shoots nice and flat so I didn't even need to adjust my zero for 200 yards and my holdover for 300 yards was nominal.

Other than that, shooting clays with my new SxS 12g was REALLY fun :D