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Prc329
10-16-2007, 8:11 AM
I currently have an IOR 4-14x50 illuminated scope with your basic MOA adjustments. The Elevation knob does 12 moa with each turn. Now IOR just released updates to all there scopes with a large exposed elevation knob that does 25 moa with each turn of the knob. So I plan on selling my IOR, probably after the match on the 27th and buying a new one. Here are my choices.

2.5-10x42 illuminated with Mil adjustments
4-14x50 illuminated with MOA (basically the same glass but updated with new knob and more adjustments)
3-18x42 illuminated with a 35mm tube with MOA adjustments.

The part where I am getting hung up is do I really need mils, will I miss the extra power if I go with the 10x or will the 35mm tube make a difference.

:(

Someone is going to get one hell of a deal on an IOR pretty soon :)

ar15barrels
10-16-2007, 8:17 AM
Someone is going to get one hell of a deal on an IOR pretty soon :)

I call dibs. :D

Prc329
10-16-2007, 8:21 AM
I'll PM you first after I get the new fella.

BTW forgot to add the 2.5-10x42 is FFP.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 8:21 AM
having more elevation would definitely be less confusing, the more elevation you can get the better. frankly moa vs mil is a matter of perference, and i think the main factor should be on what kind of recticle your going with. if your going with a mil type recticle, then go metric with .1 clicks.

go FFP~! i think huge advantage with hold over shooting, and having a spotter calling out your shots in mils. plus it's a huge advantage of milling targets for range estimation on whatever power your on!

only downside is the 10x power is think is somewhat limited in shooting longer ranges, but there are people that do prefer the 10x.

you might want to go higher power to learn to read mirages which you will need a 16x, 17x type scope which brings you back to the us optics or s&b world.

Prc329
10-16-2007, 8:26 AM
They all have the same MP8 reticle I am used to so that is a non issue. Matching mils vs moa has never been an issue either. I guess if a person is calling misses in mils it may be an issue. That is the area that confuses me so much. If I am using a mildot with MOA adjustments why should I move to metric? What advantage is there to be had, besides the reticle matching the clicks.

I think I just answered my one question. Seeing the miss in the scope and knowing how many mils over I need to move could make adjustments quicker and easier.

Jicko
10-16-2007, 8:33 AM
I currently have an IOR 4-14x50 illuminated scope with your basic MOA adjustments.
...
Someone is going to get one hell of a deal on an IOR pretty soon :)

LMK when you are ready to trash your 4-14x

:-D

ar15barrels
10-16-2007, 8:37 AM
LMK when you are ready to trash your 4-14x

:-D

The line starts right behind me. :D
See above.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 8:42 AM
and let's say your not on the power that it is milled for, and they say 1 mill at 3 o'clock, then what are you going to do? redial in your scope, but what if you don't have time? with a ffp you can just hold it over 1 mill in any power instead of redialing in your scope which you may not have time for in a match.

when i shoot at Timber's matches, i have made plenty of mistakes. mistakes costs points not earned, or shots not taken with means points not earned. sometimes, you just don't have enough time to dial in scopes at multiple target stages. you need to hold over. get a FFP, trust me. i think i know your habits by now, just drop the money on a us optics or s+b and forget about it. that'll be the last scope you'll get for your .308

Prc329
10-16-2007, 8:52 AM
I gotta check the availability of the Snipers Hide unit. I know the 2.5 is available. I think I would prefer the extra zoom on the 3-18-42 but the 2.5 should be good as well.

Decisions, decisions.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 8:54 AM
I gotta check the availability of the Snipers Hide unit. I know the 2.5 is available. I think I would prefer the extra zoom on the 3-18-42 but the 2.5 should be good as well.

Decisions, decisions.


good luck with that. only way you'll get it is by a resale from the original buyer.

Prc329
10-16-2007, 8:59 AM
I heard he just got a batch in and another batch coming the end of the month. This is from IOR. I called them about 10 minutes ago and they said Scott is the only one that sells them and they just shipped him a batch and he should get more by the end of the month. I gotta call him and see what the availability is.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 9:00 AM
and let's say your not on the power that it is milled for, and they say 1 mill at 3 o'clock, then what are you going to do? redial in your scope, but what if you don't have time?

Actually.. it's still pretty easy to do when the magnification is a multiple/factor of the power the scopes mils at. For example, if a scope mils at 12X, then milling at 6X or 24X is just a matter of dividing or multiplying the number of mils by 2!

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:01 AM
unless your okay shooting with 10x. wildcard prefers shooting 10x type scopes. in that case, 1 mil is always 1 mil cause the power is fixed. simple to use.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:04 AM
Actually.. it's still pretty easy to do when the magnification is a multiple/factor of the power the scopes mils at. For example, if a scope mils at 12X, then milling at 6X or 24X is just a matter of dividing or multiplying the number of mils by 2!

****, how come no one told me this before. now, i know how to use my mark 4 better.\

well FFP would still be easier. less math to do.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 9:23 AM
unless your okay shooting with 10x. wildcard prefers shooting 10x type scopes. in that case, 1 mil is always 1 mil cause the power is fixed. simple to use.

Only downsde i've found is that it makes spotting holes in paper targets >/= 200 yds pretty darn difficult whereas its effortless with higher magnification. Obviously, life would be easier at 50 - 100 yds with lower magnification especially if you're dealing with a moving target or higher magnification if you're shooting beyond 600 yds.. but 10X is a good compromise if you like to keep life simple and minimize the potential of things going wrong with the increased use of moving parts.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:25 AM
k, i have a question now. my scope is set for the mildot at 20x! i dunno why they did this, but they did. what kind of math do i do, when i shoot at 16x. and can i range using my mildot at 10x, and just times that by 2?

wildcard
10-16-2007, 9:36 AM
k, i have a question now. my scope is set for the mildot at 20x! i dunno why they did this, but they did. what kind of math do i do, when i shoot at 16x. and can i range using my mildot at 10x, and just times that by 2?

What's the magnification range on your scope? It mils at 20x?! Are you sure?

Well.. if you mil at 10x you would need to multiply the number of mils by 2.

If you mil somethng at 20x and lets say it comes out to 5 mils.. then you mil the same object at 10x it should be 2.5 mils. Multiply that by 2 and you get 5!

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:44 AM
What's the magnification range on your scope? It mils at 20x?! Are you sure?

Well.. if you mil at 10x you would need to multiply the number of mils by 2.

If you mil somethng at 20x and lets say it comes out to 5 mils.. then you mil the same object at 10x it should be 2.5 mils. Multiply that by 2 and you get 5!


freaken leupold. they set the mildot at the highest power! 6.5-20x i don't even go to 20x. i like to shoot 16x from 100-900yards range. if it's close range, like 50 yards, i take it to 6.5x.

Prc329
10-16-2007, 9:46 AM
My current IOR mils at 10x and my nikon mils at 12x

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:47 AM
My current IOR mils at 10x and my nikon mils at 12x

this is much more reasonable.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:49 AM
that's why i can't wait to have my ffp scope! no more guessing, dammit. 1 mil is 1 mil, and i can either hold it over or just dial it in nice and easy with no mil to moa math. makes it nice and easy for someone that doesn't want to think too much. simple and straight to the point.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 9:50 AM
Nothing official since it is just my own calculation based on my understanding.. but one way of telling what factor you multiply the number of mils by depending on your magnification is to use this simple formula:

(factory mil magnification) / (magnification used) = Factor

Then all you do is take you mil reading and multiply by "Factor"

So assuming your scope mils at 20x but you use 16x to mil an object for 2.5 mils, the object is actually 3.125 mils.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 9:52 AM
freaken leupold. they set the mildot at the highest power! 6.5-20x i don't even go to 20x. i like to shoot 16x from 100-900yards range. if it's close range, like 50 yards, i take it to 6.5x.

I'm willing to take that useless piece of junk off your hands for $200 :)

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 9:55 AM
I'm willing to take that useless piece of junk off your hands for $200 :)

you are funny. it'll be on my p for a long, long time. it's going to be my back up .308 (2,800 rounds more, before i get it trued and rebarelled)

thanks, so i just times everything by 1.25! cool.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 10:00 AM
you are funny. it'll be on my p for a long, long time. it's going to be my back up .308

Haha.
"Long, long time"
"This is my last major firearms purchase for a long time"
"No more spending on guns except for reloading equipment"
"I'm done buying"
"I've spent too much money so no more"

I'll just wait till you have a dream that you had some piece of a equipment then took as a sign to buy when you woke up. That was the best excuse ever :)

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 10:08 AM
Haha.
"Long, long time"
"This is my last major firearms purchase for a long time"
"No more spending on guns except for reloading equipment"
"I'm done buying"
"I've spent too much money so no more"

I'll just wait till you have a dream that you had some piece of a equipment then took as a sign to buy when you woke up. That was the best excuse ever :)

no, i look back on this year when i started getting into firearms. i went a little overboard, i think. for reals, no more spending. i leave my credit card at home, and haven't used it in for almost a month now. my custom build is my last piece for a long, long time. i told my wife, that i was going to drive my honda till the house is paid off. only thing i will spend money on is reloading stuff cause i need it, and perhaps to rebuild the p once the barrel is toast. my property tax bill just came in, $11,200!

Prc329
10-16-2007, 10:16 AM
****, that would buy you 2 USO scopes.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 10:18 AM
remember i told you guys, that death season is coming in. we'll it's coming in fast! time to tighten down, really quick.

Prc329
10-16-2007, 10:21 AM
I feel ya. Got my first Christmas gift yesterday.

DJDace
10-16-2007, 10:42 AM
My current IOR mils at 10x and my nikon mils at 12x

Awesome Nayt, I wasn't sure what power the 4-14 power IOR's milled at. I haven't had to worry about it yet and was just about to start looking for the answer!

Thanks for saving me some time looking for it :)

rksimple
10-16-2007, 11:40 AM
You cannot arbitrarily take a scope that mils at max power (say 20x like the loopy) and put it at 10x and expect your mil values to be cut in half. In a perfect scope, maybe. The fact is that where the number 10 is located on the power ring may not even be 10 power. It may be 9 or 11, etc. You have to verify each scope and know how it behaves.

Easy thing is to just go FFP and never look back. For multiple target/multiple distance shooting, you can't beat it.

Prc-like pete said, if you go S&B or USO, you'll never go back. It'll be the only one you want from then on. I'm still deciding myself between USO and S&B. The 5-25x56 PMII is sure callin' my name...

Prc329
10-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Seeing what that guy over at SH did to his S&B to test its reliability has me thinking of one but I just can't get past how well my IOR works. If it wasn't for the release of the exposed elevation knob scope by IOR we would not be having this conversation.

wildcard
10-16-2007, 11:54 AM
You cannot arbitrarily take a scope that mils at max power (say 20x like the loopy) and put it at 10x and expect your mil values to be cut in half. In a perfect scope, maybe. The fact is that where the number 10 is located on the power ring may not even be 10 power. It may be 9 or 11, etc. You have to verify each scope and know how it behaves.

Easy thing is to just go FFP and never look back. For multiple target/multiple distance shooting, you can't beat it.

Prc-like pete said, if you go S&B or USO, you'll never go back. It'll be the only one you want from then on. I'm still deciding myself between USO and S&B. The 5-25x56 PMII is sure callin' my name...

True.. and if everyone had that kind of money to devote to their scopes.. it would be easy choice for everyone: buy the best.

But for those who have to settle for the generally lowered priced SFP scopes.. it's important to know that it's possible to mil even with a SFP scope. Sure you need to confirm the settings.. but it would be difficult to do that without first knowing/understanding the concept as it applies in a perfect environment first.

rksimple
10-16-2007, 12:07 PM
True.. and if everyone had that kind of money to devote to their scopes.. it would be easy choice for everyone: buy the best.

But for those who have to settle for the generally lowered priced SFP scopes.. it's important to know that it's possible to mil even with a SFP scope. Sure you need to confirm the settings.. but it would be difficult to do that without first knowing/understanding the concept as it applies in a perfect environment first.


I agree completely. This is a concept people should understand. It would be quite beneficial, especially on a scope like the 6.5-20 loopy, to know what it does at 20x and 10x, and what values your mils give. Given a multiple target/multiple distance scenario, it would be much easier to put it on 10x and know where to hold...That is if you don't get a loopy that changes zero's as you change magnification...don't get me started...

Jicko
10-16-2007, 1:01 PM
my property tax bill just came in, $11,200!

Sell your house and RENT!

lol....

Jicko
10-16-2007, 1:03 PM
You cannot arbitrarily take a scope that mils at max power (say 20x like the loopy) and put it at 10x and expect your mil values to be cut in half. In a perfect scope, maybe. The fact is that where the number 10 is located on the power ring may not even be 10 power. It may be 9 or 11, etc. You have to verify each scope and know how it behaves.

I've seen guys who do exactly this, by doing a calibration of their own scope, and then engrave marks on their magnification ring.

PistolPete75
10-16-2007, 3:13 PM
Sell your house and RENT!

lol....

tried it, my market is dead as a door nail. i'll just ride it out like everyone else, and sell it when it peaks again. probably in like 7-8years.

aplinker
10-16-2007, 4:08 PM
True.. and if everyone had that kind of money to devote to their scopes.. it would be easy choice for everyone: buy the best.

But for those who have to settle for the generally lowered priced SFP scopes.. it's important to know that it's possible to mil even with a SFP scope. Sure you need to confirm the settings.. but it would be difficult to do that without first knowing/understanding the concept as it applies in a perfect environment first.

Just wanted to mention... The magnification at the top and bottom might not be exact, too. They're often just rounded. It's best to measure at both the magnification set for the ranging and the magnification dial reading you want to use. :)

Prc329
10-17-2007, 7:17 AM
O.K. after sleeping on it the race is between the 2.5-10-42 FFP and the 4-14x50. I want an illuminated scope and since the 3-18x42 is non illuminated it is withdrawn from consideration.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 7:51 AM
O.K. after sleeping on it the race is between the 2.5-10-42 FFP and the 4-14x50. I want an illuminated scope and since the 3-18x42 is non illuminated it is withdrawn from consideration.

That's a tough call. I like the mil/mil on the 2.5-10, but more magnification is always cool (to a point). I've used the 2.5-10 on an AR and it was fantastic. Is it 14x or 12x that the IOR is calibrated for?

For a dedicated tactical scope, 10x is sufficient. But for more precise work (tiny paper targets, really long distances) I'd like more mag.

I have a feeling IOR is going to start coming out with a few more FFP versions of their SFP models. Just a feeling.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 7:58 AM
you might want the higher magnifaction to read mirage for wind conditions. just a thought. buy one last scope and don't look back.

Prc329
10-17-2007, 8:01 AM
My rig will be used for range work and the monthly APS match and eventually a few classes and bigger matches. The 4-14x50 mills at 10x. I love my current scope but the appeal of the larger turrent with 25 moa of adjustments is just to great to pass on. I like the idea of the FFP scope but don't want to wait till December for the supply to catch up with demand and I want an illuminated scope. If they have updated the illuminated 3-18x42 then it will be back in the running.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 8:12 AM
My rig will be used for range work and the monthly APS match and eventually a few classes and bigger matches. The 4-14x50 mills at 10x. I love my current scope but the appeal of the larger turrent with 25 moa of adjustments is just to great to pass on. I like the idea of the FFP scope but don't want to wait till December for the supply to catch up with demand and I want an illuminated scope. If they have updated the illuminated 3-18x42 then it will be back in the running.

if your concentrating on Timber's matches, all shots are known distances and targets do no have to be milled (at least for now). he does have night matches, and there are some shooting at low light levels so i do see an advantage with an illuminated recticle. as for 25moa adjustments, that is a very nice feature. less chances of errors. i have 15moa of adjustments on my scope, and i have to keep remembering to bring it back to zero after i shoot so i don't forget where i am at my elevation.

as for other matches that i've read upon. there is milling at unknown distances, so a higher powered ffp might have an advantage in those matches. readings should be easier going 16x at a 800yardish target.

Jicko
10-17-2007, 8:13 AM
My rig will be used for range work and the monthly APS match and eventually a few classes and bigger matches. The 4-14x50 mills at 10x. I love my current scope but the appeal of the larger turrent with 25 moa of adjustments is just to great to pass on. I like the idea of the FFP scope but don't want to wait till December for the supply to catch up with demand and I want an illuminated scope. If they have updated the illuminated 3-18x42 then it will be back in the running.

1 idea tho, maybe you should call up IOR and see if they can do u a trade-in upgrade? Knowing that you haven't use your scope for too long....

Prc329
10-17-2007, 8:22 AM
I did, they don't.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 8:24 AM
There have been a couple UKD stages at timberwolf's matches that I've been to. 10x is sufficient for milling at most reasonable distances that a 308 would be employed anyway. Given that the IOR SFP 4-14x mils at 10x, thats the way I'd go. In the barrel burner stages where there are multiple engagement distances, 10x is plenty. On the single target close range (under 300 yards), or even the single target at distance stages, you can dial up to 14x and bang away. Just check your scope to make sure it retains its zero throughout the entire magnification range. Its an IOR, so it should be fine. If it were a loopy...

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 8:30 AM
from my experience on my one Leupold mark 4, i have never had zero issues unless it was my own fault of messing around with it. i myself, wouldn't spend the money on another mark 4 anyways. moneywise if i could go back in time, i would have gone with the nikon tactical for about $900shipped to me. same performance, less money.

Prc329
10-17-2007, 8:34 AM
My IOR has been solid. I think I have decided on the 4-14x50 because the updated 3-18x42 won't be out for at least a month or 2.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 8:35 AM
My IOR has been solid. I think I have decided on the 4-14x50 because the updated 3-18x42 won't be out for at least a month or 2.


just wait it out. be a little patient. shoot with what you have, and buy the new scope when it comes out.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 8:35 AM
from my experience on my one Leupold mark 4, i have never had zero issues unless it was my own fault of messing around with it. i myself, wouldn't spend the money on another mark 4 anyways.


I hear ya'. I'm just messin' around, to some extent. Most of the mk4's I've seen have been prety good. Most VXIII's...not so hot. You've done well with your 6.5-20, so they can't be all bad.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 8:46 AM
I hear ya'. I'm just messin' around, to some extent. Most of the mk4's I've seen have been prety good. Most VXIII's...not so hot. You've done well with your 6.5-20, so they can't be all bad.

we'll i hear alot of scopes break, so i'll let you know if it holds up another 2,800 rounds which will take the count to 4k, hopefully with no issues. i don't planning on dropping the scope, or throwing it under water, etc. i would like to keep my scope in one piece. :)

Prc329
10-17-2007, 8:49 AM
I may be patient behind my rifle but not with my money :)

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 8:51 AM
I may be patient behind my rifle but not with my money :)

take that money and throw it into a little money market account, and wait till that scope comes in. buy one last scope, and don't look back. save money, buy not buying more stuff your going to upgrade in the future. buy one last time, and keep it forever. that's my motto.

Prc329
10-17-2007, 9:19 AM
If they never came out with that damn exposed turret, I wouldn't care and would hold onto my current IOR. ****en advancements in technology.

Jicko
10-17-2007, 10:31 AM
On the single target close range (under 300 yards), or even the single target at distance stages, you can dial up to 14x and bang away. Just check your scope to make sure it retains its zero throughout the entire magnification range. Its an IOR, so it should be fine. If it were a loopy...

Just mount a DOCTOR sight on top of your scope for CQB.... (oh... I was thinking about a AR-SPR setup... heh hee)

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/GAar15_071105J.jpg

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 10:34 AM
Just mount a DOCTOR sight on top of your scope for CQB.... (oh... I was thinking about a AR-SPR setup... heh hee)

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/GAar15_071105J.jpg


hey that aint soo bad at all. would be very useful in matches, when your shooting offhand. post a link.

Jicko
10-17-2007, 10:47 AM
hey that aint soo bad at all. would be very useful in matches, when your shooting offhand. post a link.

Larue's for their SPR scope mount (off-center)
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=39

ARMS's (in-line) version for their #22 rings
http://www.armsmounts.com/catalog.php?action=124&item_id=44

Both are GREAT for a rifle setup for 0 to 600/800 yards engagement..... 0-300 w/ Doctor RED-DOT.... anything beyond 300, use your 10x scope!

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 10:51 AM
Larue's for their SPR scope mount (off-center)
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=39

ARMS's (in-line) version for their #22 rings
http://www.armsmounts.com/catalog.php?action=124&item_id=44

Both are GREAT for a rifle setup for 0 to 600/800 yards engagement..... 0-300 w/ Doctor RED-DOT.... anything beyond 300, use your 10x scope!

hey that's pretty nice, i never saw a set up like that before. this would be an advantage for a wide field of view. easier to find your targets. i wouldn't use it past 200yards though if your trying to hit small sized targets.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 10:57 AM
With the off-center one, I'd imagine you'd run into some serious parallax issues at distances beyond your zero.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 10:59 AM
With the off-center one, I'd imagine you'd run into some serious parallax issues at distances beyond your zero.

if that's the case, it's really limited to 100yard shooting huh? i don't think it's worth the money invested. plus the extra weight, and bulk.

i'll just wait for my us optics. i should be able to get a good field of view at the 3.2x power setting

wildcard
10-17-2007, 10:59 AM
and if price is a factor, get the the burris fastfire in the larue housing.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 11:05 AM
and if price is a factor, get the the burris fastfire in the larue housing.


shoot, i ain't spending any more money. not after, i get through the holidays. it's been xmas for me all year long, now it's time to give.

you guys are all bad influence to me. j/k. :)

rksimple
10-17-2007, 11:36 AM
if that's the case, it's really limited to 100yard shooting huh? i don't think it's worth the money invested. plus the extra weight, and bulk.

i'll just wait for my us optics. i should be able to get a good field of view at the 3.2x power setting

At 3.2x you'll be able to see a ton. The reticle will be pretty tiny as well. That USO is gonna kick a**. Still deciding on an SN3 or 5-25 PMII...dang decisions.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 11:54 AM
At 3.2x you'll be able to see a ton. The reticle will be pretty tiny as well. That USO is gonna kick a**. Still deciding on an SN3 or 5-25 PMII...dang decisions.

your concern between the two isn't performance, since they both perform well. your concern is warrenty issues, quality control, and what not. us optics is in southern california, so i'm sure for some reason if the scope is not 100% you can just mail it to them, and they will fix it in a giffy. s&b is in a total different country, and God knows how long that could take if something did happen.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 11:59 AM
your concern between the two isn't performance, since they both perform well. your concern is warrenty issues, quality control, and what not. us optics is in southern california, so i'm sure for some reason if the scope is not 100% you can just mail it to them, and they will fix it in a giffy. s&b is in a total different country, and God knows how long that could take if something did happen.

I like the illumination on the S&B (reticle), as well as the obj. size. I'd have to go to 58 with the USO, and its a thicker tube. I like the GAP reticle of the USO (but like the thicker lines of the p4), and the EREK knob. If I could smash them together and have a scope, It'd be perfect.

BTW: Premier Reticles in Virginia does the warranty work for S&B. They put together all of the USMC sniper scopes. Right now, the 4 month wait for a USO is a concern as well. I want it now!

Prc329
10-17-2007, 12:00 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=336051#Post336051

Probably won't need that warranty.

PistolPete75
10-17-2007, 12:06 PM
I like the illumination on the S&B (reticle), as well as the obj. size. I'd have to go to 58 with the USO, and its a thicker tube. I like the GAP reticle of the USO (but like the thicker lines of the p4), and the EREK knob. If I could smash them together and have a scope, It'd be perfect.

BTW: Premier Reticles in Virginia does the warranty work for S&B. They put together all of the USMC sniper scopes. Right now, the 4 month wait for a USO is a concern as well. I want it now!

i don't think the huge 58mm objective will make a much of a difference over a 44mm objective. mayby you can put a request in for a thicker recticle. i hear you can put a request in for thinner recticles, so a thicker recticle request might be possible. yep, i love the erek knob, that's what i got. better put in the order soon, and start waiting. it'll make it less painful.

Mute
10-17-2007, 4:45 PM
USO is a custom shop. They'll do whatever you want, but it will cost you. As for reticles, a standard mil dot from USO, I believe is thicker, but not as nice as the GAP. You might want to check out the mil scale MPR also. However, it's also same thickness as the GAP. Truthfully, I find the .1 mil thickness of these two reticles to be just fine especially at the high end of the magnification, but that's something only you can determine.

Keep in mind that USO allows you also to choose your color on the illumination (green or red). Of course you can always just buy a used one. I see them every so often on the SH sales section.

Prc329
10-17-2007, 5:12 PM
You know Pete, you are right. I'll wait till the updated 3-18 is available.

rksimple
10-17-2007, 6:39 PM
Of course you can always just buy a used one. I see them every so often on the SH sales section.

I was too slow on the one that George was selling. I was ready...