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View Full Version : Hypothetical off-list Mini Uzi find


RANGER295
10-15-2007, 11:10 PM
A hypothetical situation: You find out that your FFL who is a good personal friend had about a dozen off-list (Group Industries) micro Uzi receivers in inventory at the end of 1999. Not knowing about the off-list thing, he registered them all as AW’s to himself but did not register them to himself in terms of a DROS. In other words they are still listed as being in inventory so he thinks he can not private party transfer them even if he un-registers (don’t know the proper term) them as AW’s. I really do not know one way or the other. Does anyone know if there is any legal way to PPT these receivers? If there is, exactly how would one go about this and what issues would need to be considered? I tried the search but couldn’t find anything exactly like this. Thanks

bwiese
10-15-2007, 11:23 PM
Aside from AW issues, an FFL having them non-DROSed means 'in inventory' and thus these can't be sold as they're non-Rostered. Even if he pulled some shenanigans his ATF books (which I assume are correct!) would reveal 'interesting' circumstances.

As I understand it a lotta FFLs thought they could get non-Rostered handguns for themselves but couldn't - they made the mistake of not DROSing to themselves before SB15 kicked in.

SemiAutoSam
10-15-2007, 11:27 PM
Like sold to a LEO and then LEO sells through PPT ? Anything not legal about that ?

Aside from AW issues, an FFL having them non-DROSed means 'in inventory' and thus these can't be sold as they're non-Rostered. Even if he pulled some shenanigans his ATF books (which I assume are correct!) would reveal 'interesting' circumstances.

As I understand it a lotta FFLs thought they could get non-Rostered handguns for themselves but couldn't - they made the mistake of not DROSing to themselves before SB15 kicked in.

slick_711
10-15-2007, 11:40 PM
Like sold to a LEO and then LEO sells through PPT ? Anything not legal about that ?

Awesome. So now we need a cooperative LEO, and to make sure the Uzi's don't have threaded barrels, and then Ranger, the LEO, the FFL, me, and 8 other people can buy Micro Uzis?

Sounds awesome! :D


ETA: Wait a minute, if an off list micro uzi is legal as long as the barrel isn't threaded and it doesn't even need a fixed mag... and my parents are in TX... what do Micro Uzi's go for? :eek: Why has this never occurred to me before.

SemiAutoSam
10-15-2007, 11:46 PM
You never asked me.

Wait a minute, if an off list micro uzi is legal as long as the barrel isn't threaded and it doesn't even need a fixed mag... and my parents are in TX... what do Micro Uzi's go for? :eek: Why has this never occurred to me before.

slick_711
10-15-2007, 11:47 PM
You never asked me.

Well since you're here I'll ask you, because I just checked gunbroker and couldn't find anything. What (if any) companies still make offlist Uzi's and what would one expect to pay in a free state? ;)

SemiAutoSam
10-15-2007, 11:52 PM
Ill check my sources and get back to you.

I'm bringing a Off list Ingram MAC-10 into California in a few weeks.

Any interest in one of those?


Well since you're here I'll ask you, because I just checked gunbroker and couldn't find anything. What (if any) companies still make offlist Uzi's and what would one expect to pay in a free state? ;)

slick_711
10-16-2007, 12:04 AM
Would depend heavily on my finances & what it cost, but sure. I don't need both, just one of the "AW" type pistols to play around with at the range. Your MAC 10 clones in 9mm or .45?

Ill check my sources and get back to you.

I'm bringing a Off list Ingram MAC-10 into California in a few weeks.

Any interest in one of those?

RANGER295
10-16-2007, 12:06 AM
I am tired and will ad some other ideas tomorrow but I will leave you with this tonight. What if the said FFL is also a reserve deputy sheriff in a county where the reserves are full sworn peace officers or otherwise a LEO? Could he transfer them to himself as a LEO and then PPT them to others?

SemiAutoSam
10-16-2007, 12:08 AM
First off its not a clone its the real deal IE its not listed MAC Military Armament Corporation MAC-10 in 45ACP and 9mm.

in the area of 2100.00 - 2400.00

Would depend heavily on my finances & what it cost, but sure. I don't need both, just one of the "AW" type pistols to play around with at the range. Your MAC 10 clones in 9mm or .45?

slick_711
10-16-2007, 12:17 AM
Ranger I would say he could. If he's an LEO there should be no reason he can't buy them as long as he de-registers them first and they're not threaded bbls. Sounds like quite the arrangement!

SAS, that's out of my price range for the time being, otherwise I'd jump on a 9mm. I didn't realize MAC-10s were quite so valuable. Thanks for the info though. :)

aplinker
10-16-2007, 12:46 AM
The micro Uzi is probably the best of the bunch for these pistols. Sounds like 10 people are gonna soon be happy. I'm jealous.

RANGER295
10-16-2007, 8:58 AM
The biggest problem would be convincing him that the LEO thing would be legal. He is the type of guy that will not do anything grey. So unless there is some clear documentation that would be legal… Is this one of the loop holes that we found like the whole OLL situation or is it clearly acknowledged by DOJ as being ok to transfer an un-roistered handgun to a LEO without any kind of documentation or approval from the department? I guess what I am saying is, he would have to be educated on the fact that it was legal and how to do it.

My other thought if he could not be convinced of the other one, would be to build it in his shop and make it a single shot. The only problem with this is I do not know how long a micro Uzi is or what parts from an Uzi carbine are interchangeable. You may have to get a long barrel and put it on there. As I read the law, there is nothing that says you can not have a barrel attachment if it is permanently fixed. You just can not have a threaded barrel. So a possible solution for the length would be get a threaded barrel, build it with that which would be legal since they are currently registered as AW’s, then silver solder or weld on a flash suppressor or maybe a better idea would be a fake silencer. All of that could be taken off later and replaced with a threadless barrel or the attachment could be cut off and the threads turned off.

smguser
10-16-2007, 9:22 AM
Ranger, point your FFL buddy here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo.php

ar15barrels
10-16-2007, 9:29 AM
First off its not a clone its the real deal IE its not listed MAC Military Armament Corporation MAC-10 in 45ACP and 9mm.

in the area of 2100.00 - 2400.00

Assuming it's transferable on a form 4 or form 5.
If it's not transfereable, it's just a post sample.

SemiAutoSam
10-16-2007, 9:46 AM
Nope its not a Title II weapon. It's a open bolt semi auto mfg in the mid 1970's.

Notice the lack of a selector.

I am aware that the threaded barrel will have to be replaced with a unthreaded barrel or modified by removing the threads.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/Resized001-5.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/Resized002-5.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/DSC00265.jpg


Assuming it's transferable on a form 4 or form 5.
If it's not transfereable, it's just a post sample.

slick_711
10-16-2007, 10:37 AM
The biggest problem would be convincing him that the LEO thing would be legal. He is the type of guy that will not do anything grey. So unless there is some clear documentation that would be legal… Is this one of the loop holes that we found like the whole OLL situation or is it clearly acknowledged by DOJ as being ok to transfer an un-roistered handgun to a LEO without any kind of documentation or approval from the department? I guess what I am saying is, he would have to be educated on the fact that it was legal and how to do it.

My other thought if he could not be convinced of the other one, would be to build it in his shop and make it a single shot. The only problem with this is I do not know how long a micro Uzi is or what parts from an Uzi carbine are interchangeable. You may have to get a long barrel and put it on there. As I read the law, there is nothing that says you can not have a barrel attachment if it is permanently fixed. You just can not have a threaded barrel. So a possible solution for the length would be get a threaded barrel, build it with that which would be legal since they are currently registered as AW’s, then silver solder or weld on a flash suppressor or maybe a better idea would be a fake silencer. All of that could be taken off later and replaced with a threadless barrel or the attachment could be cut off and the threads turned off.

As long as it is not an AW, which they're not if they are not specifically listed. And does not have a threaded barrel, which could be removed easily either way. Once they've been de-registered (I'll admit that is a process I'm not familiar with, but it can be done), they'll be perfectly legal for transfer to an LEO. In the case of AW rifles LEOs need a department letter, but with non-roster pistols that is not the case. And once in LEO possession, if off-list, they can be PPT'd to anyone.

AJAX22
10-16-2007, 11:19 AM
how much are they going to be ;)

aplinker
10-16-2007, 1:05 PM
how much are they going to be ;)

+1 :D

The LEO exemption is clear-cut. I think his validity as an LEO might not be, at least to him. We all have to do what we're comfortable with. But those Uzi's need to fulfill their destiny.

adamsreeftank
10-17-2007, 1:23 AM
I'm a little worried about trying to get them all through an LEO. The LEO could buy one for himself and then decide he doesn't like it and sell it PPT, but if he kept doing that, would it be considered a straw purchase or an attempt to circumvent the laws? I think it would be hard to find an LEO willing to risk it.

RANGER295
10-17-2007, 1:27 AM
Ranger, point your FFL buddy here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo.php
Thank you. That may be all that I need to convince him.
how much are they going to be ;)
+1 :D

The LEO exemption is clear-cut. I think his validity as an LEO might not be, at least to him. We all have to do what we're comfortable with. But those Uzi's need to fulfill their destiny.
Unclaplinker has it right for the most part. I have not talked to him about the LEO exemption. That thought came from this thread. I just found out last night when I was talking to him that they are off list. When I had talked to them before he had called them “Uzi’s” and said they were registered as AW’s and just sitting there so I had assumed that they were listed. It came up when I was talking to him about doing a transfer on a larger Uzi type pistol that would be converted to single shot to import it to the PRK. I am just anticipating that I will have to work pretty hard to convince him that it is all on the up and up and not in a grey area. That is where I may need some help. The link from smguser may do the trick. Then we need to figure out how to get them un-registered as AW’s.

About the other part of the question about price, I was going to ask you guys what they are worth. I have looked a little and not been able to find any anywhere. They are just stripped receivers. I found a few built ones for around $1300 on GunBroker. Secondly, I do not know where you would get a parts kit for a micro Uzi to build them up. Third, I estimated that there were about a dozen, that was based on what was sticking in his mind last night it could be less and it could be more. I am sure both of his sons and a couple of his brothers will want one each, next in line would be me, followed by my dad and brother. Assuming that there are any left and he does not have anyone else in mind that would have some kind of priority, I am going to recommend that they be put to some kind of auction to be sold in CA only. Maybe we can work something through the sale forum. But I figure it is a supply and demand kind of thing where given their scarcity here, it would be hard to put a asking price on them.

Anyway, I do not know if I am making sense and I am not going to re-read my post before I post it. I am just too tired… I have been up since around 05:00, I just finished writing a 20+ page evaluation on a swine farm, and my eyes are sore from striking an arc today before my welding hood was down all the way… now I am just wineing… good night my bed is calling.

caliboy1321
11-26-2007, 2:58 AM
Bump? I did not know that Group made Micro Receivers. I thought only IMI did?

AJAX22
11-26-2007, 7:19 AM
Some companies took full sized group industries receivers and cut them down to IMI spec.

I just didn't know that any non NFA micro uzi's were created in this manner.

RANGER295
11-26-2007, 8:19 AM
Bump? I did not know that Group made Micro Receivers. I thought only IMI did?

I have not actually seen them so I do not know if they are actually know if they are “micro” Uzis or “mini” Uzis which I understand are slightly bigger than a micro Uzi. AJAX22 is correct that they are full size receivers that have been cut down. My FFL friend got these 10 or 15 years ago when he took over another FFL’s inventory when the other guy got shut down by ATF or DOJ or something like that. ATF thought they might be NFA items and sent one back to some “expert” in Washington and determined that they were not far enough along to be considered NFA items and that they could be built legally. At least that is the story as I understand it.

As far as an update on the original situation… I have talked to him, and not really gotten anywhere. He knows that he can transfer one to himself as a LEO but he is afraid to transfer one on to me after doing that being that he is the FFL as well. I plan on talking to him more. I also am working on another LEO to see if he is game to buy them and then transfer them to me.

Another question, does anyone know where you can get a parts kit for one of these? I have looked and only found them for full sized Uzis. It seems like these aren’t that common.

emc002
11-26-2007, 8:46 AM
Like sold to a LEO and then LEO sells through PPT ? Anything not legal about that ?

Dumb question, I should probably search better, but I'll ask SAS & bweise anyway:

Can an LEO PPT a pre-ban Uzi to an average joe or only to another LEO?

caliboy1321
11-26-2007, 11:27 AM
I can get you kits for the mini but they are expensive (pm if you want one) the only way to get a micro(aka a uzi pistol in the semi version) is to buy a imi and take the parts off that. Also there is no way to cut down a fullsize to a micro it is a completely different receiver. BUT you can cut a fullsize down to a mini with no front hand grip.

RANGER295
11-26-2007, 5:38 PM
Dumb question, I should probably search better, but I'll ask SAS & bweise anyway:

Can an LEO PPT a pre-ban Uzi to an average joe or only to another LEO?
There shouldn’t be any problem as long as they are not an AW, ie. they must be off list and not have any “evil” features.
I can get you kits for the mini but they are expensive (pm if you want one) the only way to get a micro(aka a uzi pistol in the semi version) is to buy a imi and take the parts off that. Also there is no way to cut down a fullsize to a micro it is a completely different receiver. BUT you can cut a fullsize down to a mini with no front hand grip.
Then these are minis not micros because I definitely remember him saying that they are cut down from full size receivers.

M. Sage
11-26-2007, 5:53 PM
I'm a little worried about trying to get them all through an LEO. The LEO could buy one for himself and then decide he doesn't like it and sell it PPT, but if he kept doing that, would it be considered a straw purchase or an attempt to circumvent the laws? I think it would be hard to find an LEO willing to risk it.

It's not a straw purchase. They'll be properly transferred to individuals who aren't prohibited. A straw purchase is where a non-prohibited person buys a firearm for a prohibited person.

AJAX22
11-26-2007, 7:07 PM
What degree of compleation have these receivers been taken to?

have all the welds been compleated and has the mill work been done?

also were these regsiterd to him personally as AW's? or were they registered to the buisness?

if they were registered to him personally then he MAY be able to PPT them to another individual, dealer inventory is treated differently than personally owned firearms in CA.

RANGER295
11-26-2007, 7:27 PM
What degree of compleation have these receivers been taken to?

have all the welds been compleated and has the mill work been done?

also were these regsiterd to him personally as AW's? or were they registered to the buisness?

if they were registered to him personally then he MAY be able to PPT them to another individual, dealer inventory is treated differently than personally owned firearms in CA.
I saw some of them once several years ago and as I remember, they were basically a piece of sheet metal that is bent into shape and they have been cut down and made into mini Uzis. I do not believe that they have anything welded on to them.

He says that they are in inventory and were never transferred to him personally as in a DROS or however a FFL would transfer a handgun to himself. He said however that he registered them to himself as AW’s without transferring them to himself. So basically, only the AW registration is in his name while they are still in dealer inventory.

AJAX22
11-26-2007, 7:45 PM
hrm...... I know what you're talking about exactly.

I'd still love to get one, its a great start for an uzi build project, but those are just a tiney bit more complete than an %80 receiver.

If he can get the LEO part of the transfer dialed in it would go a long way in making this profitable for him.

If he can get this figured out, the CA market will allow him to get a premium on these, if he has to sell them to Free america he'll only get about 60-75$ each (which probably wouldn't be worth his time)

I'd love one myself, I just don't know if enough profit can be made on these to justify the hassle for him.

***edit*** they look something like this? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86083316

RANGER295
11-26-2007, 7:53 PM
hrm...... I know what you're talking about exactly.

I'd still love to get one, its a great start for an uzi build project, but those are just a tiney bit more complete than an %80 receiver.

If he can get the LEO part of the transfer dialed in it would go a long way in making this profitable for him.

If he can get this figured out, the CA market will allow him to get a premium on these, if he has to sell them to Free america he'll only get about 60-75$ each (which probably wouldn't be worth his time)

I'd love one myself, I just don't know if enough profit can be made on these to justify the hassle for him.

***edit*** they look something like this? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86083316

Yes that is what I remember them looking like.

How hard would it be to build one? How much do you think they would be worth in CA?

AJAX22
11-26-2007, 8:05 PM
Building one is actually prety involved, (its a bit more intense than building an AK as it involves welding and milling)

here is a prety good tutorial on it.
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/builduzi.htm

You can charge whatever the market will bear, the trick is to get the LEO involvement.

My gut feeling is that if you can do out the door (two DROS fees included, one to the LEO and one from the LEO to end consumer) for 250 they would sell reasonably well.

If you can do it for 200 they will probably all pre-sell.

If you can get one of the guys on here to offer an assembly service you may possibly be able to get more, but there is a limit to how much you can charge.

Because its just a receiver, people could easily order them from out of state for 60$ +55$ dealer transfer fee and first Dros to LEO + 35$ second DROS, however most people don't have the LEO contact to make it happen nor do they have the time/energy to put into the project.

If you can get it to the point where all they have to do is swipe plastic or pull out the check book, people will gladly pay the aditional markup.

tlillard23
11-26-2007, 8:15 PM
You keep asking about LEO involvment. sell them all to your dad in texas, have him GIVE them all to you. You then do PPT's (I know, it'll be +25 and shipping, but it sounds better than having a LEO get a letter from his boss saying "yes, you NEED 10 micro/mini whatevers...)

RANGER295
11-26-2007, 8:55 PM
You keep asking about LEO involvment. sell them all to your dad in texas, have him GIVE them all to you. You then do PPT's (I know, it'll be +25 and shipping, but it sounds better than having a LEO get a letter from his boss saying "yes, you NEED 10 micro/mini whatevers...)
As I understand it, your “dad” in Texas could not “give” you a receiver from Texas if it is not rostered. He would have to move into CA with it and then give it to you. A LEO is the only way I can figure here. Is there any LEO on here that would take part in this?
EDIT: The LEO does not need any letter.
Building one is actually prety involved, (its a bit more intense than building an AK as it involves welding and milling)

here is a prety good tutorial on it.
http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/builduzi.htm

You can charge whatever the market will bear, the trick is to get the LEO involvement.

My gut feeling is that if you can do out the door (two DROS fees included, one to the LEO and one from the LEO to end consumer) for 250 they would sell reasonably well.

If you can do it for 200 they will probably all pre-sell.

If you can get one of the guys on here to offer an assembly service you may possibly be able to get more, but there is a limit to how much you can charge.

Because its just a receiver, people could easily order them from out of state for 60$ +55$ dealer transfer fee and first Dros to LEO + 35$ second DROS, however most people don't have the LEO contact to make it happen nor do they have the time/energy to put into the project.

If you can get it to the point where all they have to do is swipe plastic or pull out the check book, people will gladly pay the aditional markup.
They actually do not look that hard to build as long as they are ready to weld. It has been a long time since I have seen them and I do not remember which they are. I could weld one up and be ready to rock in no time. I will have to see if I can find out which stage they are in and how many there actually are. I am also trying to figure out how much they would cost to build. The biggest stumbling block is getting them transferred and convincing him to go along with it.

AJAX22
11-26-2007, 9:10 PM
getting them built will be expensive, and there's a bit more to it than just the welding (the tutorial doesnt show the part where the top of the receiver is machined to spec, which requires access to a mill to do correctly.

for all the other parts you'll need to weld, the weldpak parts themselves cost 139$ pluss shipping, but you will need at least one gripframe ($80), a semi auto bolt (???) and possibly a few other bitts (topcover?)

The other parts you'll need to complete the gun will add up quickly.

one option you could do which would eliminate the need for LEO involvement would be to do them all as single shot builds... but that would add up to a significant investment on your part for a relitivly small return.

LEO seems to be the simplest way to make this happen on these particular firearms.

WokMaster1
11-27-2007, 8:17 AM
getting them built will be expensive, and there's a bit more to it than just the welding (the tutorial doesnt show the part where the top of the receiver is machined to spec, which requires access to a mill to do correctly.

for all the other parts you'll need to weld, the weldpak parts themselves cost 139$ pluss shipping, but you will need at least one gripframe ($80), a semi auto bolt (???) and possibly a few other bitts (topcover?)

The other parts you'll need to complete the gun will add up quickly.

one option you could do which would eliminate the need for LEO involvement would be to do them all as single shot builds... but that would add up to a significant investment on your part for a relitivly small return.

LEO seems to be the simplest way to make this happen on these particular firearms.


Ajax22, c'mon, if they can turn out Uzi copies in Pakistan with hammers & chopsticks,why can't you do the same?

1911_sfca
11-27-2007, 11:59 AM
Hmm, why does the phrase "thin ice" come to mind?

ar15barrels
11-27-2007, 12:30 PM
Hmm, why does the phrase "thin ice" come to mind?

Because everyone likes it when someone else walks on it for them. ;)

RANGER295
11-27-2007, 12:41 PM
Hmm, why does the phrase "thin ice" come to mind?

How is this thin ice? It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

bwiese
11-27-2007, 1:13 PM
I haven't delved in this thread much but..

Having this CA FFL ship some bulk amount - of *any* type of firearm - to an FFL of a dude in Texas, who in turn takes legal possession of said numerous guns/ receivers -and who then ships them to his kid's FFL in CA, for the kid to use the 'interfamily exemption' smells really bad to me.

The interfamily transfer exemptions in 12078(c) PC are designed for *infrequent* transfers. And no one is gonna ***** if Junior inherits his dad's collection of 400 S&W revolvers.

But It could well be argued that a buncha guns/receivers is a 'high frequency' event, especially if the ultimate CA dude then 'flips' most of these receivers: that becomes 'dealing'.

I'm all for pushing limits, but this just smells bad. And it's for a crap MicroUzi clone - WTF? Go get a Ruger P89, it's a better & more useful gun.


Remember that one Calgunner got in trouble for 'dealing' even though he merely offered the bulk buying power of his AmEx card and the receivers went thru FFL. Those issues have gone away for him, and you'll hear more soon, but that was a helluva lot more straightforward gig than the above and I doubt most of the posters above have his resources.

RANGER295
11-28-2007, 12:19 AM
I haven't delved in this thread much but..

Having this CA FFL ship some bulk amount - of *any* type of firearm - to an FFL of a dude in Texas, who in turn takes legal possession of said numerous guns/ receivers -and who then ships them to his kid's FFL in CA, for the kid to use the 'interfamily exemption' smells really bad to me.

The interfamily transfer exemptions in 12078(c) PC are designed for *infrequent* transfers. And no one is gonna ***** if Junior inherits his dad's collection of 400 S&W revolvers.

But It could well be argued that a buncha guns/receivers is a 'high frequency' event, especially if the ultimate CA dude then 'flips' most of these receivers: that becomes 'dealing'.

I'm all for pushing limits, but this just smells bad. And it's for a crap MicroUzi clone - WTF? Go get a Ruger P89, it's a better & more useful gun.


Remember that one Calgunner got in trouble for 'dealing' even though he merely offered the bulk buying power of his AmEx card and the receivers went thru FFL. Those issues have gone away for him, and you'll hear more soon, but that was a helluva lot more straightforward gig than the above and I doubt most of the posters above have his resources.

I think you may be confusing a suggestion of one person with the original question and issue of the thread. tlillard23 suggested having “your dad in Texas” ship them to you. I think it was a suggestion of having a fictitious dad and do not think that even if there was a dad in Texas that it would solve the problem.

To sum up the situation and discussion, there is a FFL who has at least a few Group Industries mini Uzi receivers in dealer inventory. They are registered to him personally as AW’s but not in his name otherwise though he is the owner of the business to they are his if that makes sense (I am beyond tired right now). He is also a LEO. The question is, can he transfer them to himself as a LEO then PPT them to someone else? Other discussions have been about getting another LEO to buy one or more and PPT it/them. Of course they would have to be unregistered as AW’s and so forth but this is the thread in a nutshell.

Not to nitpick, but I do not think that the Uzi and the Ruger are even in the same family. I would not go to any trouble to get a Ruger P89. That is like saying “why bother with an OLL?” “Just get a Mini-14”. I don’t want to get into a Mini-14 Vs. AR debate, but I don’t think that anyone is thinking about wanting the Uzi for its usefulness. I have personally used several different variants of one and though I do not like it that much and feel that it is an awkward weapon, I would love to have one. Just like I have fired many different AR-15/M-16 type weapons and think that they have many flaws and would choose a different rifle to trust my life with, but would love to have an un neutered one because I think they are fun to shoot and just because no collection should be without one. There is also something to be said for having something because you can or because “they” are trying to make it so you can’t. Anyway, sorry for getting off topic.

m03
11-28-2007, 8:03 AM
Nope its not a Title II weapon. It's a open bolt semi auto mfg in the mid 1970's.


That's not a true Military Armament Corp (Georgia) pistol, it's a Stephenville, TX MAC (which was a company formed briefly by a former RPB employee, IIRC). The NFA version is suprisingly common in comparison to the semi.

As such, it was made some time between 1983-1986, and is Closed Bolt. Last time I saw one (maybe 4 years ago) in an AL gun shop, it was listed for about $700. I visted the same shop several months later, and they still had it.

AJAX22
11-28-2007, 11:38 AM
He can't exactly get in trouble for dealing without a licence if he is licenced as a dealer ;)

this is an interesting situation, keep me posted as to how it goes, I might just have to buy two of these (one to keep as a semi auto, and one to prototype my single shot conversion on so that the rest of CA can start playing with them.