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View Full Version : AB1471 brings JBTs to my door?


sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-15-2007, 2:21 PM
Hypothetical situation:

The year is 2010 or 2023 or whatever. I buy a microstamping gun from one of the 28 remaining FFLs in the state and suffer through my 90-day waiting period. About a year later, some scumbag born in Michoacan who was given amnesty and let out of prison even on his 4th strike because the prisons are overcrowded steals my gun in between mowing and trimming. The next week he goes and pops a cap in somebody. Brass with my name, address, phone number, birthdate, ssn, and shoe size all in the form of ascii-art of my face is recovered at the scene. About 40 minutes later, the SWAT van blocks off my court, and JBTs descend upon my house. Cause it's not like they're gonna send some rookie to ask me politely if I've shot anybody lately. I get dragged out and hauled off. I'm later exonerated of murder, but I'm immediately charged with the felony of not notifying law enforcement that a gun was missing because I hadn't checked in a couple weeks. I get sent to the slammer and lose all my guns. My wife divorces me and remarries some guy who swindles the house from her and the kids.

Does this all sound about right?

tombkeeper
10-15-2007, 3:49 PM
If you're that paranoid, you should buy a safe.

Paradiddle
10-15-2007, 3:57 PM
Hypothetical situation:

The year is 2010 or 2023 or whatever. I buy a microstamping gun from one of the 28 remaining FFLs in the state and suffer through my 90-day waiting period. About a year later, some scumbag born in Michoacan who was given amnesty and let out of prison even on his 4th strike because the prisons are overcrowded steals my gun in between mowing and trimming. The next week he goes and pops a cap in somebody. Brass with my name, address, phone number, birthdate, ssn, and shoe size all in the form of ascii-art of my face is recovered at the scene. About 40 minutes later, the SWAT van blocks off my court, and JBTs descend upon my house. Cause it's not like they're gonna send some rookie to ask me politely if I've shot anybody lately. I get dragged out and hauled off. I'm later exonerated of murder, but I'm immediately charged with the felony of not notifying law enforcement that a gun was missing because I hadn't checked in a couple weeks. I get sent to the slammer and lose all my guns. My wife divorces me and remarries some guy who swindles the house from her and the kids.

Does this all sound about right?

As a homeowner and neighbor my biggest concern is who will cut your lawn while you are in jail having your rights violated..... :)

The entire premise of MS is so flawed it amazes me Arni signed it - perhaps he should stick to laws concerning areas he has knowledge in - like performance enhancing drugs...

slick_711
10-15-2007, 4:20 PM
Sounds about right SierraT. Just hope you have some advance warning as to the arrival of the JBTs. :o

eta34
10-15-2007, 5:05 PM
Yes, absolutely. The world is simply a grand conspiracy to get YOUR guns. A couple of questions...where do you keep your guns/why would you keep your guns in a place where you wouldn't know if they were stolen? For example, I would know if mine were gone immediately because they are kept in a locked safe.

Second, what is with the JBT reference? Is it because you dislike law enforcement in general? What about this scenario causes these men to be JBT's?

Just curious.

AKman
10-15-2007, 5:17 PM
By 2010 there will also be a statewide law requiring you to report a lost or stolen firearm within 5 minutes of when you should have noticed it missing. So, when the JBTs show up to arrest you, they have it covered. You either committed the crime or you illegally transferred a firearm. Either way, you are going to jail to spend some quality time with the guy from Michoacan.

slick_711
10-15-2007, 5:19 PM
Yes, absolutely. The world is simply a grand conspiracy to get YOUR guns. A couple of questions...where do you keep your guns/why would you keep your guns in a place where you wouldn't know if they were stolen? For example, I would know if mine were gone immediately because they are kept in a locked safe.

Second, what is with the JBT reference? Is it because you dislike law enforcement in general? What about this scenario causes these men to be JBT's?

Just curious.

Me thinks JBT is just fun to say. :rolleyes:

Satex
10-15-2007, 6:17 PM
If I had a firearm stolen, I would immediately report that to the police. From that point on, why would you be liable to anything that happens with it?

stevepsd
10-15-2007, 6:25 PM
If I had a firearm stolen, I would immediately report that to the police. From that point on, why would you be liable to anything that happens with it?

If your guns are stored in a safe, do you check the safe every, single minute, hour, day? Sometimes I can go hours without fondling my guns ;)
Not all safe break in's are always noticeable.

RRangel
10-15-2007, 6:32 PM
That's a good point Sierratango. It's one that elitists in high places aren't concerned with.

It seems to me that this political class is only concerned with the leftist machinations that can be used to further their own cause and careers. Common sense and our rights be damned.

ibbryn
10-15-2007, 7:02 PM
....and then you become addicted to crack.

MedSpec65
10-15-2007, 7:13 PM
It could be worse. If The SCOTUS decides the 2nd is a "Collective" right, all the others listed on the Bill of Rights would have to be defined the same way. This would pave the way for a Manchurian Candidate like Hillary to suspend or abolish the US Constitution because we've "evolved beyond it". It's more than my guns I'm concerned about in the next few years.

N6ATF
10-15-2007, 8:39 PM
Don't hire illegals and you'll be fine.

Bizcuits
10-15-2007, 8:43 PM
If you're that paranoid, you should buy a safe.

or leave california, I hear Nevada is nice :)

slick_711
10-15-2007, 8:58 PM
This would pave the way for a Manchurian Candidate like Hillary to suspend or abolish the US Constitution because we've "evolved beyond it".

That'll never happen, I assure you. Worry about whatever you want, worry about your guns, worry about work, family, other rights, but have no fear, the Constitution will not be abolished, and we certainly have not evolved beyond it.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-16-2007, 10:27 AM
Me thinks JBT is just fun to say. :rolleyes:

Hehe yeah pretty much. Believe me, I am nothing but pleased with the performance of the guys on the street. Their bosses "ehh" but the cops on the street in my area have to deal with a lot of crap. It's only the ones who tow your car for being late getting it smogged that I don't appreciate.

grywlfbg
10-17-2007, 7:50 PM
It could be worse. If The SCOTUS decides the 2nd is a "Collective" right, all the others listed on the Bill of Rights would have to be defined the same way. This would pave the way for a Manchurian Candidate like Hillary to suspend or abolish the US Constitution because we've "evolved beyond it". It's more than my guns I'm concerned about in the next few years.

I'm not defending Hillary by any means but I find it amusing that so many people on this site think that if Hillary gets elected so many of our rights are going to disappear. Where have you been while the current administration has been wiping their arses with the constitution? They've taken away so many rights I can't even count them all.... Let's see: Illegal Rendition, indefinite imprisonment of citizens without trial, warrantless wiretapping, torture, revoking posse comitatus, National Security letters to retrieve any and all citizen's financial data with no judge involvement or notification to the citizen... I'm sure there are more.

In the end, I'm WAY more scared of W and Cheney than I am of Hillary. At least Hillary and the Dems will tell us when they're taking our rights - W and Cheney just do it without telling anyone.

N6ATF
10-18-2007, 12:29 AM
It's a downward slope.

The current administration takes away the rights you don't care about as long as you don't realize you're a victim, setting up the next administration to take away more rights, which may or may not be overt and intrusive into most people's lives.

Sam Hainn
10-18-2007, 1:33 AM
Hypothetical situation: .....I get sent to the slammer and lose all my guns. My wife divorces me and remarries some guy who swindles the house from her and the kids. Does this all sound about right?

...I promise I won't swindle the house from her and the kids. My other wife and I will guarantee them the option of a fair buy-out price. Honest. ;)

Outlaw Josey Wales
10-19-2007, 2:10 AM
It's more than my guns I'm concerned about in the next few years.

But as long as you have your guns nobody is going to be grabbing you and tossing you into an oven without a fight!

ETD1010
10-19-2007, 10:47 PM
What's a JBT?:confused::confused::confused:

Piper
10-19-2007, 11:07 PM
Yes, absolutely. The world is simply a grand conspiracy to get YOUR guns. A couple of questions...where do you keep your guns/why would you keep your guns in a place where you wouldn't know if they were stolen? For example, I would know if mine were gone immediately because they are kept in a locked safe.

Second, what is with the JBT reference? Is it because you dislike law enforcement in general? What about this scenario causes these men to be JBT's?

Just curious.

Because the People's Republyk of Kalyfornya have gun laws that violate the Constitution of the United States and little cogs like the JBT's described will blindly violate the supreme law of the land and say in their defense "I vas only following orders". And yes they are trying to take everyones guns that aren't an agent of the government. So get off of your idealistic high horse.

leelaw
10-20-2007, 1:33 AM
The vision you have of the future sure is pretty bleak. I'm sure if things were as bad as you're looking forward to, they'd just ban all guns and confiscate them, so those darned criminals wouldn't have people like you to steal firearms from. In theory, it might possibly cause some innocents problems, but in reality I doubt it'll be that bad. Effectively what it will do is ban new model handguns from becoming available, which is kind of moot since we've already cut them off to the few available with a mag disconnect and CLI.

Because the People's Republyk of Kalyfornya have gun laws that violate the Constitution of the United States and little cogs like the JBT's described will blindly violate the supreme law of the land and say in their defense "I vas only following orders". And yes they are trying to take everyones guns that aren't an agent of the government. So get off of your idealistic high horse.

Says the man from atop his horse.

CALI-gula
10-20-2007, 1:51 AM
What's a JBT?:confused::confused::confused:

Jack-Booted Transvestites.

.

slick_711
10-20-2007, 2:21 AM
What's a JBT?:confused::confused::confused:

Jack-booted Thugs.

When you imagine worst case scenario, government officials coming to take your guns or violate your rights (or both in this case); those are JBTs. Most commonly used to refer to ATF/FBI agents that are dressed as high-tech SWAT ninja-pirates and are "above the law." It's a paranoid reference to any of the LEOs that will follow orders whether or not they're constitutional; but not supposed to be a reference to LEOs in general. i.e. the ATF @ Waco = JBTs.

I still maintain that while I'd fight if I encountered them, I don't expect to encounter any nor do I expect it to get "that" bad. Mostly, JBT is fun to say. :chris:

CALI-gula
10-20-2007, 2:32 AM
Don't listen to a word slick_711 has to say on this; everybody knows JBT means Jack-Booted Transvestites.

I am sure slick_711 means well, but he's just trying to confuse you to prove his point and fir the acronym into his model ideal. Trust me, it means Jack-Booted Transvestites.

By the way, I intend to drop slick_711's name and this topic into discussion at my next meeting with some of my friends at the Hotel de Bilderberg.

.

Piper
10-20-2007, 8:24 AM
Says the man from atop his horse.

Perhaps you should qualify this statement.

History is repleat with examples of governments disarming their citizens. And the result is oppression and genocide. The citizens in countries like Germany and Rhuwanda didn't see it coming until it was too late. And the citizens paid the ultimate price.

In the U.S. free men were disarmed and groups like the Ku Klux Klan took advantage of that. Washington D.C. banned firearms and again the citizens paid the ultimate price. Now you have liberals on the one hand acknowledging that the second amendment is an individual right and on the other hand saying that it should be repealed. So it's beyond me how anyone can say that concern about JBT's kicking down doors is paranoid. Microstamping, while it won't in and of itself be the ultimate means by which guns are confiscated, it is just another inconvenience to citizens and another way of making production of firearms less profitable to manufacturers unless they increase the price to the consumer.

Oh, and before I forget, I wonder what Patti Koni would call the Chippie's (for those of you that don't know, that's the California Highway Patrol) that attacked her in her home in New Orleans, confiscated her firearm and kidnapped her from her home supposedly for her own good after Hurricane Katrina.

So perhaps you can explain how I am on my high horse.

eta34
10-20-2007, 9:03 AM
Because the People's Republyk of Kalyfornya have gun laws that violate the Constitution of the United States and little cogs like the JBT's described will blindly violate the supreme law of the land and say in their defense "I vas only following orders". And yes they are trying to take everyones guns that aren't an agent of the government. So get off of your idealistic high horse.


Wow...idealistic high horse. OK. My question was one of simple responsibility. I am asserting that if you own guns, and I belive that is EVERYBODY'S right, (despite the fact that I am a JBT), you should store/secure them responsibly. Hiding in a closet or under a bed, in my opinion, is not responsible storage.

Second, these broad generalizations and blanket statements are what makes these discussions ridiculous. I will not argue that our gun laws are garbage. I will not argue that there are some cops out there who do violate civil rights. I will not agree that all of them (us) are in collusion to disarm America. It simply is not true.

Piper
10-20-2007, 9:34 AM
1. Yes, absolutely. The world is simply a grand conspiracy to get YOUR guns.

2. A couple of questions...where do you keep your guns/why would you keep your guns in a place where you wouldn't know if they were stolen? For example, I would know if mine were gone immediately because they are kept in a locked safe.

3. Second, what is with the JBT reference? Is it because you dislike law enforcement in general? What about this scenario causes these men to be JBT's?

Just curious.

Well, let's revisit your statement point by point.

Point 1, I think it's obvious that this statement is meant as sarcasm. So what's your point? If you're referring to the U.N., then your statement is accurate.

Point 2, Not everyone can afford a $2000.00 safe. So are you saying that if a person can't afford a safe, they shouldn't own a firearm? There are some who only want a single firearm for self defense. I think they should be able to keep it with them. In the words of TED NUGENT, "The Constitution is my concealed weapons permit."

Point 3, Because someone uses the term JBT (I think in some cases it's an actual depiction of a serious problem) , that automatically means they're generally anti-LE? Your defensive posture is typical of LE's reaction to criticism. And critcism makes the individual subject to sanctions and more scrutiny than the person who doesn't criticize. You can refute this if you choose, but I have personal knowledge of this.

And that's what I'm talking about.

eta34
10-20-2007, 3:08 PM
OK, guess I should address your points. First, I never said that you need a $2000.00 gun safe to secure you guns. While I agree that a large gun safe is the best way to do so, I agree that not everyone can afford one. Leaving your gun sitting in a drawer, in my opinion, is not responsible. Purchase a lock box or whatever you can afford. I realize that every type of security is vulnerable to attack. I don't blame the burglary victim for the crime if they made an honest attempt to secure their weapon as best they could. In my opinion, just leaving it sitting out is not an honest attempt.

Second, feel free to review my post history. As a member of the law enforcement community, I have been very critical of my colleagues. There are many bad apples in this profession. I am not upset by thoughtful, constructive criticism of any and all professions. Certainly law enforcement is not immune from this. My issue is this...many on this forum use terms like "JBT" to inflame and start arguments. They choose to make blanket statements about all cops based on personal anecdotes and small sample sizes. To them, because they had a negative experience, or they heard of others having a negative experience, they project that image to the profession as a whole. This is simply intellectually dishonest.

Again, I am not a knee-jerk defenseman of my profession. I criticized the cop who arrested BWO, the cops who get DUI's on a regular basis, and those who abuse their authority. Please don't misrepresent my position and lump me in with those that you disdain.

Piper
10-20-2007, 10:52 PM
To ETA34

"Is it because you dislike law enforcement in general?" This sounds pretty much like a knee-jerk reaction to me. The term "JBT" may be used as a general term by some, but I think the title in this thread is appropriate. I will say that someone could read into the title of this thread that it refers to local LE, but that would be second guessing the individual that wrote that. The affore mentioned "question" in my opinion appears to take a defensive posture and seems to disguise a challenge or "baiting" in the form of a question.

I suppose it takes one to know one since admittedly I can be abrasive when I want to be and even down right openly agressive when I feel it's appropriate. But then again I can be diplomatic when it serves my purposes. Asking this question in the way that it was asked, quite frankly overshadowed the rest of your statement. And so I responded because my focus was on that one solitary question. Call it tunnel vision if you will, but that's the way I looked at it.

fguerra
10-20-2007, 11:05 PM
some scumbag born in Michoacan

WTF does being from Michoacan have anything to do with it????? So what, now only people from Michoacan are criminals??? That is one dumbass statement bunching a bunch of us together like we're all the same. That statement was completely IRRELAVANT to what you were inquiring.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

oaklander
10-20-2007, 11:21 PM
Hypothetical situation:

The year is 2010 or 2023 or whatever. I buy a microstamping gun from one of the 28 remaining FFLs in the state and suffer through my 90-day waiting period. About a year later, some scumbag born in Michoacan who was given amnesty and let out of prison even on his 4th strike because the prisons are overcrowded steals my gun in between mowing and trimming. The next week he goes and pops a cap in somebody. Brass with my name, address, phone number, birthdate, ssn, and shoe size all in the form of ascii-art of my face is recovered at the scene. About 40 minutes later, the SWAT van blocks off my court, and JBTs descend upon my house. Cause it's not like they're gonna send some rookie to ask me politely if I've shot anybody lately. I get dragged out and hauled off. I'm later exonerated of murder, but I'm immediately charged with the felony of not notifying law enforcement that a gun was missing because I hadn't checked in a couple weeks. I get sent to the slammer and lose all my guns. My wife divorces me and remarries some guy who swindles the house from her and the kids.

Does this all sound about right?

I actually had a bunch of workers in the house a few weeks ago to remediate some water damage. (None of them were immigrants, BTW). One of them stole a Treo 650 that I had sitting on my coffee table. Since some of the water damage was in the room where I keep my gun stuff, they all also found out I have guns.

The very next weekend I got a big safe.

My guns are locked up solid. And my insurance company is now buying me a new Treo 650.

I always thought that I couldn't afford a safe. It's funny how my budget found room for one when I started visualizing my collection getting stolen. Basically, the safe cost me about the price of two rifles. And it's going to protect 10 rifles (for now). So it's a good deal.

With AB1471 and other Cali lunacy, we have enough to worry about. I agree with the previous poster that we don't need to start making generalizations about people because of where they are from.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
10-21-2007, 1:11 AM
:lurk5:

My apologies for the Michoacan comment. I didn't mean anything by it. I had insinuated that the bad guy had entered the country illegally, and, well, he had to be from somewhere.

JBTs: Honestly, I grew up with a negative opinion of cops. This was built on my limited experiences of only seeing cops making trouble for people who weren't the real problem (stop sign: california stop, etc). These days my views are very much the opposite: I have a police scanner and I hear the guys in my area deal with some pretty crummy stuff. The ones who are out there to try to help I have a lot of respect for. If there are ones who hide behind bushes with radar guns, I don't have respect for those ones.

I was throwing out what I saw as a potential problem: (assuming you didn't shoot anybody) if brass with your s/n is recovered somewhere, what happens next? These patents have drawings of handheld devices that could read your microstamped brass. If cops can pick up a cartridge and in minutes get YOUR information from it, the amount of time before cops show up at your pad is equal to the amount of time it takes the closest cop to drive over rolling code 3. And what happens when these guys get there? Do they send the skinny runt rookie up to the door to knock politely and ask meekly if you shot anybody that night? NO, that's not how they'll approach it. I'm sure a cop in this discussion can give us a more experienced perspective on how it will happen. It will go very differently, and if nobody gets shot, you'll be in handcuffs and hauled off to jail, and by that time, that "crime if you don't declare your gun missing" law will keep you there even after you've been cleared of the actual shooting.