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View Full Version : AB 821 applies to what areas?


stevepsd
10-14-2007, 6:18 PM
"3004.5. (a) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as
determined by the commission, shall be required when taking big game
with rifle or pistol, as defined by Section 350 of the department's
mammal hunting regulations, and when taking coyote, within the
department's deer hunting zone A South, but EXCLUDING Santa Cruz,
Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo, and San Joaquin Counties, areas
west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara County, and areas between
Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno,
Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties, and within deer hunting zones D7,
D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13."

Am I reading this correctly? Is sure looks like that everyting listed after "EXCLUDING" is excluded. I'm only a poor engineer, and 'lawyer logic' sometimes escapes me ;). Is seems that this only apply to zone A south, and they are specifically excluding all of zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11 and D13?

I think only Zone A south, minus the excluded areas (even though D7-D13 are NOT in Zone A) are excluded. I think they screwed up the wording.

CRTguns
10-14-2007, 6:55 PM
big deal- just shoot barnes bullets. Or STEEL core!!!! Hah hah- joke's on them.

redneckshootist
10-14-2007, 9:44 PM
big deal- just shoot barnes bullets. Or STEEL core!!!! Hah hah- joke's on them.

steel core is already illegal. only softpoing expanding or hollow point bullets my be used (pg. 16 section 353 department of fish and game regulations)

shotguns useing slugs are still legal though:D

Whitesmoke
10-15-2007, 1:31 PM
"........Am I reading this correctly? Is sure looks like that everyting listed after "EXCLUDING" is excluded. I'm only a poor engineer, and 'lawyer logic' sometimes escapes me ;). Is seems that this only apply to zone A south, and they are specifically excluding all of zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11 and D13?

I think only Zone A south, minus the excluded areas (even though D7-D13 are NOT in Zone A) are excluded. I think they screwed up the wording.


Thats how I read it too...:confused:

So, how do I hunt with my .54 cal muzzleloader now that I can't use lead? Shoot steelies?:mad:

Prc329
10-15-2007, 1:39 PM
The law says exceptions will be made if no alternative is available.

redneckshootist
10-15-2007, 2:54 PM
Thats how I read it too...:confused:

So, how do I hunt with my .54 cal muzzleloader now that I can't use lead? Shoot steelies?:mad:

the law only applies to centerfire rifle and centerfire hand guns

muzzleloader shootin lead are still ok

Whitesmoke
10-15-2007, 4:28 PM
the law only applies to centerfire rifle and centerfire hand guns

muzzleloader shootin lead are still ok

ahh...i didn't catch that before...thanks.

nhanson
10-22-2007, 6:16 PM
This is an incredibly poor english statement and I know punctuation can change the whole meaning of the law.

It can be read two ways.....

1)".....mammal hunting regulations, and when taking coyote, within:
a)the department's deer hunting zone A South, but EXCLUDING Santa Cruz,
Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo, San Joaquin Counties, areas west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara County
b)areas between Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno, Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties
c) deer hunting zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13."

OR (how I ,and the folks here, would like to interpret it)

2)"...mammal hunting regulations, and when taking coyote, within the
department's deer hunting zone A South, but EXCLUDING:
a) Santa Cruz, Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo, San Joaquin Counties, areas west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara County
b)areas between Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno, Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties
c) deer hunting zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13."

So which is the correct legal interpretation?

stevepsd
10-22-2007, 7:37 PM
oh no.....it could mean:

the ban applies to all hunting of mammal (big game animals) within all of the state and what is EXCLUDED is only coyote hunting in those areas called out.

This has to be one of the more poorly written POS I have read.

Any English majors out there?

CalNRA
10-24-2007, 2:47 AM
they really need to learn to use semi colons.

Sounds to me D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13 are included in the exclusion to the non-lead requirement. nothing seperates these zones from the exclusion list other than the "and" and "within", which don't seem to have any consistent meaning.

wait, so lead shotgun slug is still legal? it's neither rifle nor pistol ammunition.

milsurpshooter
11-02-2007, 5:07 AM
just another retarded law. thats all

Nahuatl
11-27-2007, 12:08 PM
Don't want to spoil the speculative fun - but here's the map - this odd V-shaped slice of CA within the yellow line.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/Coyotl/RTleadmap.jpg

Whitesmoke
11-27-2007, 1:07 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the map though....but this sucks. I'm glad I reload though.....

So...how in the world are they going to be able to tell in the field if you have lead free ammo without cutting the bullet in half when using fully jacketed ammo? Seems impossible to inforce without destroying someones property.....:eek:

Solidmch
12-18-2007, 7:35 AM
all that space for a ugly big buzzard that does not eat led ammo.

T2133
01-25-2008, 4:07 PM
Re: AB 821 3 January 2008

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger recently signed into law AB 821 which, through just one more regulatory process, will make it illegal to hunt game using slugs or shot that contain more than a percentage of lead in specified areas. The law becomes effective in July 2008. Among these areas are deer hunting zones D7 and D8. For those who don’t hunt, zone D7 is roughly the land east of state highway 41 to the Sierra Nevada crest, and between the southern Yosemite National Park boundaries, south to the Kings River.

The intent of the law is to preclude the possibility of California Condors ingesting lead from the carcasses and gut piles of dead game animals. Condors are big, buzzard like birds that are listed as an endangered species. The southern Sierra Nevada was part of the region identified for inclusion in the initial regulation proposal. A rather awkward inclusion of D7 and D8 was later made. The stated reason was that that they were within the historic range of the bird. That is to say…a range where they are no longer present.

For now it is also a historic range for wonderful outdoors men and women who spend hundreds of their hard earned dollars participating in two of California’s most successful conservation programs, hunting and fishing. Their money has contributed seasonally to government coffers and small village economies located about these areas for generations.

Those who desperately wish to see the Condors make a comeback also spend money, a substantial portion of which is our converted state and federal tax dollars. They have concluded that lead in the diet, thus lead in the blood of the bird, is the ultimate cause for the failure of their Ventura based program. Following this logic, a further study is mandated in the new regulations to monitor levels of lead in other creatures that currently thrive in these areas. For us locally it means more tax dollars spent in a apparent bid to bolster a weak rational for this unnecessary change in the habits of law abiding taxpayers who hunt in D7 and D8. Those who presented this lead story convinced one Fish and Game commissioner so early in the hearing process, he had to resign. Republican state senators were unconvinced, all voted in opposition to the bill as written. Governor Schwarzenegger, a Republican, was convinced just enough. My guess is the heart warming section which gave lip service to a subsidy for the cost of ammunition compliance won him over. I have since been advised “it won’t happen, there is no money”…no kidding.


As one scans the blogs, the real range of the Condor, an interesting feature stands out. Beneath the signatures of each author is a list of “Save the…” organizations of which they are members. Sometimes this list is striking…an inch long. After chasing down Condor alerts on the web for awhile it becomes clear that the lobbyists executing this charade work on a very narrow set of interests for the same finite number of recycled constituents. I will be following Governor Schwarzenegger’s next bid for public office with much interest. I hope that he can count on his new political allies to bring him all the votes he will need. I for one have changed my mind about him.