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View Full Version : AB-1471 is only the foundation….


ybz
10-14-2007, 8:46 AM
It is very disappointing but we have to take a deep breath and see the big picture here. This bill appears dumb, very dumb. I mean one can apparently circumvent the micro stamping with a small file… criminals can pick up the brass in the crime scene (which would incidentally make crimes harder to solve)… so for all of us here and believe it or not for the rest of the population and the anti gun politicians as well; they could just as easily passed a bill requiring a shooter to wear identifying marks on the bottom of their shoes and you would have to wear these shoes when handling a fire arm, etc. BUT this was not their intent. They truly believe that decreasing crime in this state requires eliminating guns in this state. Now if they just straight up said it, people would rise and cry 2nd amendment violations… so they came up with something better… a common sense approach to the problem: who would oppose a gun that would stamp the ID on the casing? Certainly no law abiding citizen; why would I, or you, should care if the pile of brass around me in the range had my name all over it? If our guns were ever used in self defense, surly we would call the police to report the justified incident… so opposing this bill is a real looser, since on its face it really has no problem owning and using guns, unless you are a criminal, and it would be very tough to find logic in making it harder to resist this bill, who would oppose caller ID on cell phones unless you use your phone to conduct illegal harassing phone calls??? So the bill passed!!! It was set up to pass. It was written fairly, and in a way that opposing it would make a politician seem like a paranoid gun nut… while the bill is foolish from a practical point, it is genius (in my humble opinion), on the ground work it sets for the state.

The next logical step, in year or two is to create a ‘comply or register’ for all existing pre-stamp firearms. Why would anyone oppose that? Unless you are a criminal… so in a reasonably written bill, it will state that you can keep your gun, no one is going to take it away, but you simply must get the stamping hardware if possible, or register your gun at $25-50 per gun… seems reasonable… I mean how many people own, or should own, more than a gun or two… seems like a reasonable compromise… so now they get a comprehensive sun registration, which could impose restrictions on transport and transfer…

After that the ‘safe list’ will be amended. Why would you want to continue selling an un-safe firearm? That makes no sense!!! If it’s unsafe, it’s unsafe. Think about it… grandfathering seems silly and foolish… and if they remove the grandfathering part from the safe gun list, how will this affect anyone? Certainly won’t affect the public, do we really want unsafe items sold to the public? It is only going to affect the big business, big lobby gun manufacturers. And as everyone knows, they don’t have the public interest in mind… so make them re-qualify the gun to the safe list every 3 or 4 years… if you don’t think that this is why the safe list was created in the first place, I don’t know what to tell you… so now, no more unsafe, non-stamping guns will be available… and if you thing the gun manufactures will be opposing this, think again… they will make 2 models each with the stamping feature, and charge a bunch for them… they will make money hand over fist, since they will have very little competition…

Finally, with the success of the previous two bills… wouldn’t is make sense to serialize ammo casing? How hard can it be??? Can’t be that hard…

I guess it’s easy to get flustered here, but brace yourself for the future… you just have to realize that they given up on trying to take away our rights to bear arms… they are simply going after the available inventory both in quantity and price…


Sorry in advance for the rant...

dee-vee
10-14-2007, 8:54 AM
I agree. It is pretty much certain they will find a way to decertify all the current approved guns. Now that they won this victory and have the taste of blood they will be even more aggressive with new laws. It doesn't look good.

RRangel
10-14-2007, 9:07 AM
Preaching to the choir, BUT true. What a terrible law.

bulgron
10-14-2007, 1:19 PM
So we attack them on the LEO exception. If this law is so great, why does LEO not have to follow it? Just because someone wears a badge, that means that they are immune from criminal behavior, to engage in bad shootings, to lose their sidearms? Shouldn't those be stamped too? Or is it possible that maybe, just maybe, microstamping isn't really a safety feature after all?

Time for the court cases to begin....

KenpoProfessor
10-14-2007, 1:42 PM
Exactly, why shouldn't LEOs duty weapons have serialization, that way, they know in a gunfight, who fired what round and how many. Without it, they can claim anything. Geez, that would make investigations go a lot smoother huh?



Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

j2ws2000
10-14-2007, 1:52 PM
There was a lady here in SoCal who's entire gunshop was dedicated to the .50 cal industry. She was a cautious FFL to my knowledge, really talking down the off list lowers thing and discouraging anybody from getting caught up in that fiasco. She wasn't one to be doing any illegal activity I'll tell you that.

Recently she was raided by the ATF and I heard people ask in astonishment, "Woah, I wonder what she was doing.."

I'm guessing selling .50 cals or something like them to keep her business from going under. Now she has lost her livelihood and is looking at serious jail time. This is another American friends, another life, and while to you it may sound like a sad story in actuality let us call a spade a spade: It is the government kicking down somebody's door and arresting them for a nothing. Nobody's life, liberty or property was deprived or threatened by her, only her own.

Enough is enough, we gun owners need to stop this, protest, and make our voices heard. Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I&NR=1

What happens when the sheriff pulls up at your doorstep and demands your guns? Are you going to hand them over and whimper, "From my cold, dead hands." ? Will you shoot a man just trying to do his job? How about we do something now instead, how about we start talking about what to do about this problem; problems have solutions after all. We can either survive this, or endure it and let our children suffer it.

Corbin Dallas
10-14-2007, 2:16 PM
What happens when the sheriff pulls up at your doorstep and demands your guns? Are you going to hand them over and whimper, "From my cold, dead hands." ? Will you shoot a man just trying to do his job? How about we do something now instead, how about we start talking about what to do about this problem; problems have solutions after all. We can either survive this, or endure it and let our children suffer it.

Me: What weapons are you talking about officer? I got a kitchen full of Knives... is that what you mean? Take them all if you like.

Officer: We want your guns/firearms

Me: <silent with dumb dog look on my face>

Officer: May we look around your house?

Me: Do you have a search warrent?

Officer: Do I need one?

Me: If you want to search this house you do. Not being difficult officer, merely excercising my rights as a United States citizen. Have I commited a crime?

That's pretty much how our conversation will go. If the officer barges into my house and forcefully detains me, then he's going to have a hard time getting into my safe, which I will not comply to open. The officer can arrest me and I'll let my family of lawyers take care of it. (Dad, Stepdad, Uncle and cousin are all attorneys)

IF and when our country become like England, I'll move elsewhere.

.22guy
10-14-2007, 2:22 PM
Where are you going to go Corbin?

MedSpec65
10-14-2007, 2:33 PM
There's not enough CHP Officers on the roads to enforce the traffic laws. How is the State going to enforce a dumb law like this? There are millions of autoloaders stashed inside millions of homes all over the State. It would cost BILLIONS to set up an enforcement bureaucracy.

Corbin Dallas
10-14-2007, 2:52 PM
Where are you going to go Corbin?

The back woods of Montana sounds good...

I also have my Canadian SS ready for a JIC measure.

I hear there are some places south of mexico that are weapon friendly with a monetary contribution to local governments...

:D

j2ws2000
10-14-2007, 2:53 PM
Me: What weapons are you talking about officer? I got a kitchen full of Knives... is that what you mean? Take them all if you like.

Officer: We want your guns/firearms

Me: <silent with dumb dog look on my face>

Officer: May we look around your house?

Me: Do you have a search warrent?

Officer: Do I need one?

Me: If you want to search this house you do. Not being difficult officer, merely excercising my rights as a United States citizen. Have I commited a crime?

That's pretty much how our conversation will go. If the officer barges into my house and forcefully detains me, then he's going to have a hard time getting into my safe, which I will not comply to open. The officer can arrest me and I'll let my family of lawyers take care of it. (Dad, Stepdad, Uncle and cousin are all attorneys)

IF and when our country become like England, I'll move elsewhere.

Too late by then for lawyers my friend, by then law wont matter, and we'll tell our children tales about justice.

aklover_91
10-14-2007, 3:09 PM
I don't remember who said it first, but: 'When you feel it is time to bury your guns, it is really the time to dig them up.'

The Gestapo and the SS were just trying to do their job too, after all.

GJJ
10-14-2007, 3:19 PM
America is a police state. The sooner you accept this fact, the better. We are not free men like so many THINK they are. If you are not a criminal now for the violation of some obscure law you did not know about, you will be soon. Get used to it. Accept it. Live your life.

America died a long time ago. Time to grow up. She has been dead for years. The Republicans are fascists. The Democrats are socialists.

Since I gave up hope, I feel much better.

thominator
10-14-2007, 3:27 PM
America is a police state. The sooner you accept this fact, the better. We are not free men like so many THINK they are. If you are not a criminal now for the violation of some obscure law you did not know about, you will be soon. Get used to it. Accept it. Live your life.

America died a long time ago. Time to grow up. She has been dead for years. The Republicans are fascists. The Democrats are socialists.

Since I gave up hope, I feel much better.


So true. I wonder when the next American Revolution will begin.

GJJ
10-14-2007, 3:34 PM
There will be no next revolution. The majority of the people in this country look to the state as their god/parent/nanny.

Our only hope will be the inevitable financial collapse of the USA due to it's reckless fiscal policy. No country in the history of the world is in debt to the level we are. We borrow $1.5B per day to fund a lifestyle we can not afford. Cut off the money supply, and the monster dies.

Sowing and reaping. It is just a matter of "when" not "if".

Like all great empires, this one is overextended.

jjperl
10-14-2007, 4:06 PM
WTF sounds like you all just gave up.

We haven't even flexed our power as gun owners yet.

I would bet money that if calguns had an official protest in front of the CA legislature with guns in hand they would start to listen intently/ s**t their pants.

Remember we have the 2nd Amendment for a reason (to stop oppressive government) and we haven't even used it for that reason since it was give to us.

The founding fathers are shaking their heads at us in shame.

aklover_91
10-14-2007, 4:26 PM
.

Remember we have the 2nd Amendment for a reason (to stop oppressive government) and we haven't even used it for that reason since it was give to us.

The founding fathers are shaking their heads at us in shame.

And who will do that, you?

We've already established that working inside the system is essentially futile at this point, o why aren't you already fighting that oppressive government? Hmm?

Face it, no one will ever stand and fight. The country died along time ago, all that's left is a rotting corpse.

God Bless The Mauser
10-14-2007, 4:29 PM
Were just going to have to wait for America to collapse under the weight of it's own debt.

GJJ
10-14-2007, 4:30 PM
jjperl, you have got to be kidding. No one is going anywhere with guns. You can shame yourself all you want.

The system is broken.

hoffmang
10-14-2007, 4:52 PM
And who will do that, you?

We've already established that working inside the system is essentially futile at this point, o why aren't you already fighting that oppressive government? Hmm?

Face it, no one will ever stand and fight. The country died along time ago, all that's left is a rotting corpse.

Yep. Working (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/oal/OAL-280-Suspension-Notice-2007-09-21-w-Attachments.pdf) inside the system never works. :rolleyes:

-Gene

jjperl
10-14-2007, 4:59 PM
Face it, no one will ever stand and fight. The country died along time ago, all that's left is a rotting corpse.
I'm more than willing to stand and fight, but I sure as hell can't do it alone. Also it's not dead, it's dieing, and if we let it die who knows what it will reincarnate as.

The system is broken.
I realize that, thats why we need go outside the system to force change.

Were just going to have to wait for America to collapse under the weight of it's own debt.
And lose everything you have and worked so hard for? If America tanks so do you.

Dieter
10-14-2007, 5:07 PM
And who will do that, you?

We've already established that working inside the system is essentially futile at this point, o why aren't you already fighting that oppressive government? Hmm?

Face it, no one will ever stand and fight. The country died along time ago, all that's left is a rotting corpse.

So perhaps it is time to seriously re-examine this issue.....Americans are actually standing up in certain places - look at the Arizona Sheriff, look at the Minutemen....and they are doing it legally. Some politicians are listening. Willing people exist. I think some of you underestimate the numbers. It is a matter or assembling those numbers, and sympathetic politicians, in a logical, and effective manner to reverse course.

And yes, if it comes to it, I WILL STAND UP for the Constitution of this nation. Are we all so willing to just let the sacrifices of those that have died to preserve the Constitution go silently??? Or do we make a vociferous stand and carry on in their name????

hoffmang
10-14-2007, 5:13 PM
How about we wait less than 9 months for a Supreme Court Ruling on Parker/Heller before we start planning an armed uprising?

-Gene

ybz
10-14-2007, 5:15 PM
What they are working on is not taking anyone’s guns, that would cause an uproar that would set them back… they are not saying you cant buy guns either, that would be unconstitutional… all they are saying hey, ‘gun nuts’ buy all the guns you want, but please, pretty please, just make sure you buy ‘safe’ guns… who can argue with that???

They are not restricting what you can buy, they are restricting what you can be sold… that is the big picture here!!!

You can visualize another move to lift the PPT exemption, but they won’t do that. They won’t have to… what will happen due to the decrease of available new guns for sale will be a significant drop in FFL which will basically mean the end of PPT for hand guns (big5 will still do PPT for rifles, but not handguns since they don’t sell them and other will follow with not selling anymore handguns). I also see a future registration period for ‘unsafe’ handguns much in the same way assault weapons were registered and will be not be sold or transferred…

By setting up such sensible laws which are difficult for pro-guns politician to argue with (who would argue against a safe gun???) they will eventually get all weapons out… the genius of this and similar laws is that they not restricting what you can buy, only what can be sold…

jjperl
10-14-2007, 5:18 PM
haha fair enough.

How about we wait less than 9 months for a Supreme Court Ruling on Parker/Heller before we start planning an armed uprising?

-Gene

Bishop
10-15-2007, 6:10 PM
...about as useless as a miniskirt in a convent.