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View Full Version : AB-821 is now law too


redneckshootist
10-13-2007, 2:32 PM
http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/7708/
:mad::mad::mad:

Charliegone
10-13-2007, 2:34 PM
:mad::mad:

no wonder he left them for the weekend...they were both pretty unpopular...but I guess he's feeling risky.

bwiese
10-13-2007, 2:38 PM
Actually the idioitic Sam Parades of GOC (Gun Owners of California) probably made this possible.

Whatever possible cover the governor had - by referring the studies back to Dept of Fish & Game - evaporated when Parades drove that letter around that got the DFG commissioner canned.

Paredes won the battle so he could lose the war for us.

This is worse than AB1471.

Prc329
10-13-2007, 3:28 PM
When does this take effect?

Socal858
10-13-2007, 3:28 PM
:mad:

Prc329
10-13-2007, 3:30 PM
This is bull but at least it could mean free ammo.

The act would also require the commission, to the extent
funding is available, to provide hunters within these areas with
nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge through a coupon program.

I guess now we need to fight to make sure funds are available.

Prc329
10-13-2007, 3:34 PM
3004.5. (a) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as
determined by the commission, shall be required when taking big game
with rifle or pistol, as defined by Section 350 of the department's
mammal hunting regulations, and when taking coyote, within the
department's deer hunting zone A South, but excluding Santa Cruz,
Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo, and San Joaquin Counties, areas
west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara County, and areas between
Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno,
Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties, and within deer hunting zones D7,
D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13.

That may come in handy.

LECTRIKHED
10-13-2007, 3:48 PM
I don't really understand this law. Does it affect anyone who is not a hunter?

mastadonn
10-13-2007, 4:21 PM
If anyone believes that the State will provide ANY funding for ammunition, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

gazzavc
10-13-2007, 4:29 PM
How will the lead ammo ban affect recreation target shooters and plinkers?

Prc329
10-13-2007, 4:39 PM
If anyone believes that the State will provide ANY funding for ammunition, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

That is why it is time to fight to make sure money is there.

MrTuffPaws
10-13-2007, 4:45 PM
I don't really understand this law. Does it affect anyone who is not a hunter?

As long as you don't shoot animals, then you're fine. Too bad it states centerfire only. Chances are far more likely that a condor is going to eat 22lr bullet stuck in a dead squire than a 300 Win mag lodged in a deer.

c good
10-13-2007, 4:46 PM
It affects all of us whether one is a hunter or a plinker/target shooter. It is the same ruse used at the Federal Level in the 1994 AWB. Divide and conquer. Hunter's don't care what the target guys are having shoved down their throats, and target guys (in this case) don't really care much about what the hunter's have forced on them. Not saying this is the case here on CalGuns but this is the mentality of many gun owners and the Anti's know it. This is a step by step degradation of all of our RTKBA's and access to ammo. Just watch. c good

grywlfbg
10-13-2007, 4:47 PM
How will the lead ammo ban affect recreation target shooters and plinkers?

It won't. This is purely for hunters. The concern was that hunters would leave entrails with lead in them out int he woods and the Condors would come and eat it and get lead poisoning. A buch of BS if you ask me but yeah, it only affects hunters (for the moment anyway - wouldn't put it past them to try and push this onto any public lands and outdoor shooting ranges).

RRangel
10-13-2007, 5:20 PM
The intent of the law is transparent. The data used was very suspect, and it will go down in history as another in the long line of knee jerk reactions from biased leftists in California. Those who favor this law are not lovers of freedom; not by a long shot.

milsurpshooter
10-13-2007, 6:47 PM
we'll see how many condors choke to death swollowing a bullet that has expanded twice it's size that is still in one piece. with the added razor edges of doom. and also it's just another excuse to ban all lead ammo for these same reasons this bill passed. which i find amusing because isn't lead mined from the ground anyways, please correct me if i'm wrong.

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 6:58 PM
You want I should come back to the PRK and shoot all the Condors so this bill can go buh-bye :eek:? I'm not a big fan of scavengers anyway.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

God Bless The Mauser
10-13-2007, 7:00 PM
milsurpshooter, I concur.

chris
10-13-2007, 7:09 PM
i hope the condor goes extinct soon. F the bird. evolve or die. we were betrayed this year. we fought and fought hard good work everyone you are the best in my book!

otteray
10-13-2007, 7:54 PM
This is bad for all the blackpowder shooters, bullet casters and upland game folks, too.
I fall into all three catagories.
Can't shoot anything but lead in an old softer steel rifle (some of which were made made up thru the 1900 teens) or the bore will wear down.

Hey, but in Santa Cruz county and some other places, it's okay to hunt with lead ammo!

So where in my county of Santa Cruz does this apply?

Nowhere, unless you are a farmer with lots of land. Certainly not on the land newly aquired by BLM north of the city limit!
No doubt in my mind that the bill makers know this.


Another Kalifornia Socialist "feel good" law.
Well, I will vote against the governator if he runs for congress.

AKman
10-13-2007, 8:03 PM
Actually the idioitic Sam Parades of GOC (Gun Owners of California) probably made this possible.

Whatever possible cover the governor had - by referring the studies back to Dept of Fish & Game - evaporated when Parades drove that letter around that got the DFG commissioner canned.

Paredes won the battle so he could lose the war for us.

This is worse than AB1471.

CDFG was going to allow for some exemptions where non-lead ammo isn't available for some calibers. While I already hunt with 100% copper ammo in my 30.06, I don't carry copper ammo in my backup 44 mag. Also, I don't think non-lead ammo is available for 22s. The CDFG was also going to exempt home-made loads for those that cast their own bullets. This bill screwed a lot of people.

Next year expect to hear about how copper bullets are poisoning the condors. All relatively soft metals are toxic when ingested, so its just a matter of time before there are additional bans.

56Chevy
10-13-2007, 8:08 PM
You want I should come back to the PRK and shoot all the Condors so this bill can go buh-bye :eek:? I'm not a big fan of scavengers anyway.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
I'll buy you the ammo and the gun if you can get rid of ALL of them.:D

stevepsd
10-13-2007, 10:17 PM
"3004.5. (a) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as
determined by the commission, shall be required when taking big game
with rifle or pistol, as defined by Section 350 of the department's
mammal hunting regulations, and when taking coyote, within the
department's deer hunting zone A South, but EXCLUDING Santa Cruz,
Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo, and San Joaquin Counties, areas
west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara County, and areas between
Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno,
Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties, and within deer hunting zones D7,
D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13."

Am I reading this correctly? Does this only apply to zone A south, and they are specifically excluding all of zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11 and D13?

Charliegone
10-13-2007, 11:17 PM
Read this.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=69180&highlight=condor

more Condors are killed by power lines and predators, yet..where are the cries of banning or curbing this?? Environmental wackos at their finest in California.:mad:

Sam Hainn
10-13-2007, 11:30 PM
It won't. This is purely for hunters. The concern was that hunters would leave entrails with lead in them out int he woods and the Condors would come and eat it and get lead poisoning. A buch of BS if you ask me but yeah, it only affects hunters (for the moment anyway - wouldn't put it past them to try and push this onto any public lands and outdoor shooting ranges).

This bill was just a lead in. They failed in the past trying to do what you suggested in parenthesis. There have been attempts calling for complete ban on lead ammo, especially at use at outdoor ranges claiming the water run-off from the large amounts of lead would get into water and landfills and that shooting ranges were toxic to the environment. Comparisons have been made to leaded-paint chips, leaded gasoline, and lead from chemical processing plants. They have drawn parallels to Prop 65 and EPA issues.

This bill IS just a lead in to use as an example to make lead bans wider spread. To have thought this was just for hunting was to fail to see the open door to banning SALES of lead ammo in certain calibers in CA and banning it at ranges (even indoor to to "toxic" atmospheric levels in the indoor range air).

Charliegone
10-13-2007, 11:37 PM
This bill was just a lead in. They failed in the past trying to do what you suggested in parenthesis. There have been attempts calling for complete ban on lead ammo, especially at use at outdoor ranges claiming the water run-off from the large amounts of lead would get into water and landfills and that shooting ranges were toxic to the environment. Comparisons have been made to leaded-paint chips, leaded gasoline, and lead from chemical processing plants. They have drawn parallels to Prop 65 and EPA issues.

This bill IS just a lead in to use as an example to make lead bans wider spread. To have thought this was just for hunting was to fail see the open door to banning SALES of lead ammo in certain calibers in CA and banning it at ranges (even indoor to to "toxic" atmospheric levels in the air).

exactly...that's what it is..slippery slope, slippery slope.

Gmountain
10-14-2007, 5:10 AM
How will the lead ammo ban affect recreation target shooters and plinkers?
How can you even say things like this? What affects one of us affects all of us.

As Ben Franklin said:"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Ford8N
10-14-2007, 5:50 AM
How can you even say things like this? What affects one of us affects all of us.

As Ben Franklin said:"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

I agree we need to hang together but...

Tell that to the FUDDS who say "..what do you need one of "those" kind of guns for? It's just for killing people." Hear it all the time at gun stores and shooting ranges.:eek:

singleshotman
10-14-2007, 6:24 AM
I have too agree this is not a good idea, but how many people hunt Big Game in California, not very many-i'll bet for every hunter there are 100 at a shooting range.That fact will make spreading this wider next year very hard. I shoot Blackpowder guns and if you read the text of the bill it says "Centerfire", so i could still hunt with lead in a Muzzleloader or Sharps 1863 Rifle, neither of which are "Centerfire",they are precussion.

Charliegone
10-14-2007, 11:55 AM
There can be lots of things that can happen when this law goes into effect.

-Hunters will just not hunt or hunt less in California. The first is highly unlikely, most likely they will bite the bullet and just buy non-lead bullets. The second I think is more probable.

-They will probably buy less ammo, which could mean less hunting.

-Some of the animal populations might go out of control. Means more coyotes or other pests will be visiting a neighborhood near you. I see a rise in animal related attacks (just theorizing.)

-Condors will still keep dying from lead poisoning...because given the facts provided by dudes who collect the info on the Condors, there is no real proof it's bullets causing the lead poisoning.

You really have to understand why this law was passed or proposed. It wasn't for the condor. It's really simple. Environmental wackos hate hunting period...and what better way to hurt it by banning lead bullets for the sake of the Condor? No doubt about it, they will try to ban lead complete for out door gun ranges, etc in a few years. Just watch...they will say "Condors are eating stuff from there as well."...only a prediction...but hey you know how it is with gun control laws.

Dieter
10-14-2007, 3:56 PM
This was brought about by ONE case of a condor ingesting lead in a carcass that was placed intentionally BY a F&G agent FOR condors!!! ONE!!!! Most responsible hunters do not simply leave carcasses behind like this. This was a rare instance. Remeber, nothing to do with the condor or environment - it is just another chink in the armour, just another stone in the path leading to extreme gun control and an ultimate non-existence of firearms in this state.

tenpercentfirearms
10-15-2007, 4:56 AM
Ok, we have a few points here.

1. It only effects centerfire and only on big game and only coyotes. Squirrels are still free game for anything and shotguns have not been affected.

2. I can still sell lead ammunition!

3. How is this going to work with the proposed Fish & Game regulation changes that are coming up soon?

Benedict Arnold is right. I know the legislature is the cause, but I elected Arnold to use some common sense.

RRangel
10-15-2007, 9:28 AM
I've done some research on available ammunition for hunting after I took the hunter safety course. It seems that there are little choices available for soft point expanding hunting bullets that don't contain lead. Barnes is one of them. Is it considered a "soft point?

This law is a total scam.

This is an attempt to ban hunting IMHO with out calling it that. The anti-gunners have really gotten over on us this year.

XDshooter
10-15-2007, 10:06 AM
Am I reading this correctly? Does this only apply to zone A south, and they are specifically excluding all of zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11 and D13?


Yes, ONLY A South and a few places that excluded in A South as well.

Fjold
10-15-2007, 12:31 PM
Yes, Barnes TSX, MRX, X, etc. are all expanding bullets and are legal for hunting.

Can anyone give the exact text/map of the listed areas? I keep finding all the proposed maps on the net.