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View Full Version : AB 1471 has been signed into law


AggregatVier
10-13-2007, 2:41 PM
http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/7709/

I've got to go buy some things right now.

Charliegone
10-13-2007, 2:45 PM
Yup...just found out from the Brady's...

Josh3239
10-13-2007, 2:46 PM
Unbelievable... I don't even understand since microstamping is so flawed. It doesn't work in so many guns and in the one's it does work in, it works far from perfect.

Looks like you guys should get as many handguns as possible before the law takes into effect because I don't see to many manufacturers selling to the PRK now.

I suppose I should start making plans to move to America in the future.

SemiAutoSam
10-13-2007, 2:51 PM
To the Members of the California State Assembly:
I am signing Assembly Bill 1471.
While I appreciate and understand that this technology is not without limitations, I am
signing this bill to provide law enforcement with an additional tool for solving crimes
committed with semi-automatic handguns in California.
Public safety is one of the most important roles of government and I encourage all
stakeholders to work on improving this technology so that it may become an even more
effective crime fighting tool.

Sincerely,
Arnold Schwarzenegger

CCWFacts
10-13-2007, 3:00 PM
The only positive thing I can see in this is it might finally get gun owners in this state to wake up. In particular, it might finally get FFLs to drop their "we're above politics" or "we don't care" attitude in this state. This will surely cause a significant number of FFLs to go out of business in this state, because they're not going to sell many guns when the only options are revolvers.

FFLs should be the leaders of RKBA in this state, but instead they are obstinate in their apathy. Now they will suffer the consequences of that.

I'm disappointed in Arnie, to say the least. I didn't care about AB 50. Those are scary exotic rifles. Whatever. But this is something that affects every handgun buyer in the state.

While the rest of the country is relegating gun control to the history books, California continues on its own loony path. Maybe I should leave the state.

Anyway... we need to start a concerted effort to make sure that none of the manufacturers adopt this technology. All should do what Barrett did, which is stop selling all of their products to anyone (LEOs included) in this state.

Liberty1
10-13-2007, 3:00 PM
Thank you Senator!

762cavalier
10-13-2007, 3:03 PM
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Charliegone
10-13-2007, 3:03 PM
Thank you Senator!

Wannabe...(who won't get my vote!)

CitaDeL
10-13-2007, 3:04 PM
To the Members of the California State Assembly:
I am signing Assembly Bill 1471.
While I appreciate and understand that this technology is not without limitations, I am
signing this bill to provide law enforcement with an additional tool for solving crimes
committed with semi-automatic handguns in California.
Public safety is one of the most important roles of government and I encourage all
stakeholders to work on improving this technology so that it may become an even more
effective crime fighting tool.

Sincerely,
Arnold Schwarzenegger

Brilliant.

So all those mean bad guys are going to buy these new specially manufactured guns with teensy stamps that identify the make, model, and serial number so that they can go to jail and serve their time like good cooperative criminals should? I dont think so- homeboys wont play dat.

What this really means is that the bad guys now have a greater incentive to steal my 14 year old non-microstamping semi-auto pistol and use it in a crime.

This is not the time to lament the death of handgun ownership in California, weeping and rending your clothes. More than ever, we need to stand up and push back at those who would keep us under their boot heel. Somehow this needs to be attacked and struck down, even before it takes effect.

redneckshootist
10-13-2007, 3:10 PM
:mad::mad::mad:WTF is up with our Gov. is there a way that this law could be ruled unconsituional since it is severly flawed?

ocabj
10-13-2007, 3:13 PM
Of course, I disagree with 1471, but if I'm reading it wrong, this law doesn't affect handguns already on the list. So I don't how rushing out and getting that 1911 you've been putting off buying that's on the CA DOJ safe handgun list means anything.

AJAX22
10-13-2007, 3:13 PM
So what are our options now? I've written, faxed, emailed snailmailed, called till I used up my cell phone minuites and been yelled at by the wife... and we still get bent over and sold out?

If anyone wants the microstamping removed from their new gun I'll do it for free (at my own cost)

Other than publicly illustrating the idiocy of this new law how do we effect change?

How about a youtube video on how to render microstamping innefective with basic hand tools?

what about having gun manufacturers bring suite against the state of CA for interfering with interstate commerce?

HOW DO WE FIX THIS!!!

pepsi2451
10-13-2007, 3:14 PM
So we can still buy what is on the list and the manufacturers can still renew?

All this will do is make legal pistol sales go down while illegal sales go up.

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 3:14 PM
Brilliant.

So all those mean bad guys are going to buy these new specially manufactured guns with teensy stamps that identify the make, model, and serial number so that they can go to jail and serve their time like good cooperative criminals should? I dont think so- homeboys wont play dat.

What this really means is that the bad guys now have a greater incentive to steal my 14 year old non-microstamping semi-auto pistol and use it in a crime.

This is not the time to lament the death of handgun ownership in California, weeping and rending your clothes. More than ever, we need to stand up and push back at those who would keep us under their boot heel. Somehow this needs to be attacked and struck down, even before it takes effect.

Actually, stealing a microstamped gun is even better, once you get rid of it, the buyer has the responsiblity for it at the crime scene if not reported stolen. Let's say you're in Europe for a couple of weeks, only to get back and find your handguns have been stolen. You have to leave on business the next day out of country and can't or don't have time to report it. You get back the day a murder is committed with your gun and is left at the scene. You have no alibi for your whereabouts that day, what do you say to the police?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 3:17 PM
Of course, I disagree with 1471, but if I'm reading it wrong, this law doesn't affect handguns already on the list. So I don't how rushing out and getting that 1911 you've been putting off buying that's on the CA DOJ safe handgun list means anything.


I think you're missing the whole point of the argument. There won't be any guns on the list soon, manufactures won't renew if they know they've lost the state to microstamping.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

pepsi2451
10-13-2007, 3:19 PM
Can manufactures still renew and not have to change the guns already on the list? If they can I don't see why they wouldn't renew

So is it illegal to remove the microstamping?

Liberty1
10-13-2007, 3:20 PM
So we can still buy what is on the list and the manufacturers can still renew?

Yes, until that is taken away too with a revised safe list to mandate all are sold with micro-stamping. This is death by a thousand cuts.

ligamentum flavum
10-13-2007, 3:26 PM
this totally sucks. arnold will never get my vote.

ocabj
10-13-2007, 3:27 PM
I think you're missing the whole point of the argument. There won't be any guns on the list soon, manufactures won't renew if they know they've lost the state to microstamping.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

What arguement are you talking about?

I think you're missing my point that current firearms on the list will still be on the list even after 2010.

You may not realize it, but there were two features added to the safety requirements list for a handgun to be added to the CA DOJ Safe Handgun List: chamber loaded indicator and magazine disconnect. Lots of firearms don't meet this feature, such as Glocks. When they created that bill, I was amazed people weren't pissing and moaning about it as much as they are about microstamping.

If you are making the arguement that firearms manufacturers won't sell in CA because of microstamping, then that's something different altogether. The original poster simply stated that the bill was signed and that he needed to go out and buy some pistols (in response to this bill). I was simply trying to clarify that any pistol he can legally buy now he'll still be able to legally buy in 2010 (assuming the manufacturer doesn't let the renewal lapse).

I didn't post my response to even address any kind of manufacturer's political response to this whole issue, so I don't see why you're bringing that up in response to my reply.

Liberty1
10-13-2007, 3:36 PM
Don't worry, true Republicans like Rudy or Romney will protect our rights. :43:

railroader
10-13-2007, 3:37 PM
The problem will be the list will get smaller. You will get guns that are slow sellers that the manufacturers will fall off the list. Or when manufacturers change models and discontinue the old one, they will fall off the list. One example is the ruger p97 which is no longer made and was replaced by the ruger 345. If this happens after the microstamping kicks in we will be out of luck. I thought Arnold was smarter than this. Mark

Can'thavenuthingood
10-13-2007, 3:39 PM
Massive disappointment.

Vick

bwiese
10-13-2007, 3:40 PM
There are some administrative issues on list maintenance (as well as all the exemptions) and some other issues regarding some issues around microstamping that render this somewhat moot.

It will be a pain, but it's surmountable. We also have another several years to come up with further embellishments.

dwtt
10-13-2007, 3:42 PM
I'm about to give up hope for CA. The gerrymandered districts that make the state reps feel completely safe to push these stupid and useless laws in an underhanded effort to ban guns will ensure that things just get worse for the 2nd Amendment rights of CA citizens. The governor is just another politician like the scum in the Assembly and state Senate. I think I'll blow some of my savings to buy all the handguns I would ever want because in a few years we'll be lucky to have a dozen handguns on the "safe" list.

caduckgunner
10-13-2007, 3:43 PM
So when Arnold runs for Senator as a Republican next, I might as well vote for the democrat, cause with his actions in last 5 months, he isn't a republican ( he wasn't much of one in the first place ) anymore.

DedEye
10-13-2007, 3:43 PM
We can still get non microstamping "featured" handguns through PPT from people moving into the state, right? And every other handgun that is legal as of now is still legal to buy post 2k9, yes?

Despite the answer to those two things, this may well make me vote much more "single issue" when it comes to gun laws.

AJAX22
10-13-2007, 3:45 PM
What would it take to split CA into two or more different states?

pepsi2451
10-13-2007, 3:46 PM
What would it take to split CA into two or more different states?

Almost happened before. But that would be 51 stars, think of all those flags they would have to change.:rolleyes:

jjperl
10-13-2007, 3:47 PM
motherf***er... This is news I was really hoping I wasn't going to hear :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 3:51 PM
What would it take to split CA into two or more different states?

That actually might be easier than trying to get this law off the books:D. Well, I thought he might sign it, I was right, and now I'm glad I didn't stick around for the first shoe to drop, the other is coming. They are so going to manipulate this law so no gun can be put on the list, renewed, or even PPT'd. A few strokes of the pen by the DOJ and you won't have handguns in CA.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

LECTRIKHED
10-13-2007, 4:12 PM
When does this go into effect?

Prc329
10-13-2007, 4:22 PM
I know where my vote won't go.

Librarian
10-13-2007, 4:23 PM
When does this go into effect?
1 January 2010

Disgusting.

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 4:32 PM
1 January 2010

Disgusting.

Could be worse, the Mayan calender predicts TEOTWAWKI Dec. 21, 2012.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

jumbopanda
10-13-2007, 4:33 PM
The best ****ing part is that this piece of **** is going to take effect five days after my 21st birthday. :mad:

shark92651
10-13-2007, 4:34 PM
I won't hold my breath waiting for the first crime to be solved form this wonderful new "tool". The only new tool here is the governor.

Grouch
10-13-2007, 4:34 PM
Well all my free money will go the buying guns before 2010.

Arnold has lost all my respect.

VegasND
10-13-2007, 4:34 PM
Time to start reading up on the the stillborn state of Jefferson folks. I'd also like to hear from all the Republicans who keep saying that any republican can't be as bad as any democrat.

Same party, two names. Vote r or d, you get the imposition of state slavery.

This might be a good time to really consider that 3rd party voting is not wasting votes. Voting dem or rep is wasting votes.

(I'm having a talk with the wife since she's the reason we'll have to be moving back to CA. My attitude has been that I know I'll easily be able to make a living there so I just have to figure out how to be compliant with stupid CA law. This is just too much though. My new position is that she may move back if she has to, but our primary residence and my job will remain outside CA.)

So long CA--I loved growing up there; if you should ever return to sanity, let me know because it's like watching someone you love falling to pieces.

jumbopanda
10-13-2007, 4:36 PM
I won't hold my breath waiting for the first crime to be solved form this wonderful new "tool". The only new tool here is the governor.

He was already a tool, along with all of those assembly clowns. This state is going down the crapper faster and faster.

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 4:38 PM
Time to start reading up on the the stillborn state of Jefferson folks. I'd also like to hear from all the Republicans who keep saying that any republican can't be as bad as any democrat.

Same party, two names. Vote r or d, you get the imposition of state slavery.

This might be a good time to really consider that 3rd party voting is not wasting votes. Voting dem or rep is wasting votes.

(I'm having a talk with the wife since she's the reason we'll have to be moving back to CA. My attitude has been that I know I'll easily be able to make a living there so I just have to figure out how to be compliant with stupid CA law. This is just too much though. My new position is that she may move back if she has to, but our primary residence and my job will remain outside CA.)

So long CA--I loved growing up there; if you should ever return to sanity, let me know because it's like watching someone you love falling to pieces.

I think this sort of thing will happen on a national scale if Mitt or Guiliani get elected, and it's damn near certain if a Dem gets in.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

dee-vee
10-13-2007, 4:47 PM
GOD ****ING DAMNIT. It had to be said. **** that nazi piece of **** Arnold.

Richie Rich
10-13-2007, 4:56 PM
Some republican this turd turned out to be....

I supported him in the recall and voted for him.

Will never, ever vote for him ever again.

Arnold, you are a FRAUD!!! Why don't you go take a ride in the car with uncle Teddy.....

Kestryll
10-13-2007, 4:59 PM
Knock it off, none of us are happy about this but attacking each other will not do anything to help.
Keep focused on who the real enemy is and what we can/must do from here.

Pthfndr
10-13-2007, 5:01 PM
I didn't care about AB 50. Those are scary exotic rifles. Whatever. But this is something that affects every handgun buyer in the state.

This is why the law passed and was signed. Because people like YOU only care about what effects YOU.

Why should people who ONLY hunt, whether it's with a rifle or shotgun, give a damn about YOUR handguns. YOU didn't care about MY .50 BMG.

dee-vee
10-13-2007, 5:03 PM
I am sure the brady bunch is typing up a new bill right now that will decertify all the approved guns on the list and take another step in completely disarming us.

CCWFacts
10-13-2007, 5:13 PM
This is why the law passed and was signed. Because people like YOU only care about what effects YOU.

Why should people who ONLY hunt, whether it's with a rifle or shotgun, give a damn about YOUR handguns. YOU didn't care about MY .50 BMG.

Wrong. AB 1471 doesn't directly affect me either, given that I already have all the handguns I'll ever need, and might never buy another handgun in my life. My next gun purchases will certainly be fuddy-duddy long guns (an over-under maybe).

My comment about AB 50 is that it is a bill with a small impact on a small number of people. I realize that some people can't see the difference between a bill that has a small effect and a bill that has a large effect. Whenever I try to point out that some bills are more important than others, there are always people who say, "we all have to support each other and therefore every bill is equally important." That isn't logic; different bills do have different priorities. AB 50 is a low-priority badness. AB 1471 is a high-priority badness. Not because I don't care about 50 cal shooters, but because, gee, some things are more important than other things because they affect more people.

Successful people are able to prioritize things and focus efforts where they count. If I had a certain amount of money that I could somehow allocate to fighting bills, say a budget of $1,000, I would allocate $990 of it to fighting a bill like AB 1471 and $10 of it to fighting AB 50. Resources (money, effort, lobbying power) are always limited and should be expended wisely. I'm sure the NRA does exactly that; they probably directed their lobbyists to work hard on AB 1471, and they probably didn't put much effort against AB 50. So I guess I'm as guilty as the NRA is of destroying your gun rights.

And yes if I somehow had infinite resources (I patent a pill that cures stupidity and I make $100bil from that) I would in fact spend vast amounts of money and hire vast amounts of lobbyists to fight every single one of these bills. But that's not my reality.

By the way, I personally care about CA's NFA bans, because they do prevent me from getting some things that I want, but I don't expect anyone to put serious effort in this area because it has such a minor effect and is not a fight we're going to win. I prioritize things.

Kestryll
10-13-2007, 5:21 PM
"I have not yet begun to fight!"

The reply of John Paul Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones) to a British officer's surrender request.

Time to make calguns an even bigger force in CA politiks.

I'm more than fine with that, we've been some of the most active pro-gunners in California for a while now.
Nothing says we can't step it up even more.

This is a loss, and a tough one, but it's not the end.
We will go forward and keep fighting.

gazzavc
10-13-2007, 5:25 PM
Time to go into the 2nd hand firing pin business.

Buy 'em cheap and stock 'em deep.

Could be a nice little earner.......

CCWFacts
10-13-2007, 5:26 PM
I'm more than fine with that, we've been some of the most active pro-gunners in California for a while now.
Nothing says we can't step it up even more.

I think this is a wake-up and will get us energized. Sort of like the Clinton AWB got a lot of apathetic people motivated and active. This bill has such a big impact, it will get more people involved.

I'll be sending another check to the NRA as a way to express my anger over this.

KenpoProfessor
10-13-2007, 5:28 PM
Time to go into the 2nd hand firing pin business.

Buy 'em cheap and stock 'em deep.

Could be a nice little earner.......

The case actually gets stamped in a few places on the case as well as the primer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_REgdjSxo

see the 4th and 5th as well.

You guys could also make the inventor of this technology's life hell. His name is in the video.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Lobstradomus
10-13-2007, 5:32 PM
I'm writing an email to firearm munfacturers right now. I don't suppose anyone has a list of email addresses for the main manufacturers handy? I have Springfield, S&W, HK and Sig but couldnt find any others.

SemiAutoSam
10-13-2007, 5:34 PM
And I feel fine.

Could be worse, the Mayan calender predicts TEOTWAWKI Dec. 21, 2012.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

joe4702
10-13-2007, 5:45 PM
Damn shame. I was hopefully optimistic, but given Arnolds hard left turn after his special election went down in flames, this was not unexpected.

Mute
10-13-2007, 5:54 PM
I'd say something but this is a public forum. :cuss::mad:

MrTuffPaws
10-13-2007, 5:56 PM
Damn shame. I was hopefully optimistic, but given Arnolds hard left turn after his special election went down in flames, this was not unexpected.

Too true. I think if anything, we were all in denial thinking that he would not sign it.

RRangel
10-13-2007, 5:58 PM
This is pretty big, but we can use this as a reminder of who we are dealing with. Those who support this travesty are not our friends and it appears that they would gladly ruin this state by making it into their own image. Hopefully this is a wake up call for those who are asleep. I hope that somehow the signing of AB 1471 would effectively spell the end of Arnold Schwarzenegger's political career.

If you're a gun owner you should never entertain the idea of supporting him in any fashion. As far as I'm concerned he's done all he can to alienate himself from gun owners with the passage of AB 50 and now AB 1471.

Apparently those in other states who are glad to be there may be in for a shock of their own. Do companies that intend to offer their new designs for sale in future California want to have a separate production line just for California? Don't be surprised that so called "micro stamping" is coming to a state near you for gun makers that continue selling in this state. Then other states are only a pen stroke away from the same laws. That's what makes it so bad for the whole country.

What we need to do is convince gun makers to boycott the California government and law enforcement agencies in a similar way that Ron Barrett has. Then this state can get their turn to be treated like second rate citizens.

ttboy
10-13-2007, 5:59 PM
One more Reason to move out of state, Arnold the RINO ends his term in 2010 after that a Dem will run the state with more gun control laws!!! I am saving my money to move out I got relatives in the free state of Arizona, with CCW, no waiting period and no limits on firearm types AK 47, AR 15, etc. no 10 rnd limit on magazines. ARIZONA HERE I COME!!!!

dee-vee
10-13-2007, 5:59 PM
I didn't think he would sign it. I figured he would wait until the last day and act like some hero and veto it and we would all hold hands and sing songs of praise.

CSDGuy
10-13-2007, 6:02 PM
Then again, this event could spark a bad political backlash against the Legislature by the voters... One reason why Congress doesn't REALLY want to get into gun control is because they DO remember what happened in '94. Lots of congresscritters lost their jobs that year...

Can'thavenuthingood
10-13-2007, 6:12 PM
bad political backlash against the Legislature by the voters

We can still have guns. Now they are a help to public safety.

Vick

thominator
10-13-2007, 6:16 PM
I guess this means that our non-stamped guns will die with us. No selling or handing them down.

grywlfbg
10-13-2007, 6:23 PM
I guess this means that our non-stamped guns will die with us. No selling or handing them down.

I don't think there's any provision like that in the "unsafe handgun" law. People moving here from out of state can bring in guns that aren't on Cali's "safe" list and freely sell them to anyone they want (assuming they can legally own a handgun yadda, yadda). This is only going to affect new guns purchased in-state after 1/1/10. Although others have mentioned the gun makers may decide to turn all their guns into "cali compliant". Especially if other anti-gun states like NY decide it's a good idea.

SemiAutoSam
10-13-2007, 6:23 PM
Provided we dont leave this communist state.

Or the unconstitutional law is not taken out at some time in the future.

I guess this means that our non-stamped guns will die with us. No selling or handing them down.

JALLEN
10-13-2007, 6:25 PM
Actually, stealing a microstamped gun is even better, once you get rid of it, the buyer has the responsiblity for it at the crime scene if not reported stolen. Let's say you're in Europe for a couple of weeks, only to get back and find your handguns have been stolen. You have to leave on business the next day out of country and can't or don't have time to report it. You get back the day a murder is committed with your gun and is left at the scene. You have no alibi for your whereabouts that day, what do you say to the police?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

The BGs don't have to steal your gun. All they need is to start picking up brass from 1471 compliant handguns at ranges around the state, then when they go out and murder someone, just sprinkle a random selection of proper caliber brass around the area. The cops will never be able to prove which gun did it, and none of them were theirs!

Create reasonable doubt? I think it might!

bwiese
10-13-2007, 6:29 PM
Almost happened before. But that would be 51 stars, think of all those flags they would have to change.:rolleyes:

That effort died down when all the non-coastal counties realized they were being subsidized/paid for by the economics of SF/SJ/LA/SD and were essentially running on welfare (i.e, cost of support vs amount of business generated).

Half the counties up in NorCal seem to be populated by uneducated meth heads anytime you stop at a restaurant in Yuba City or Redding etc.

The SF greater Bay Area *alone* directly accounts for 3% of the *USA's* GNP, and likely indirectly accounts for another 2%-3% due to product design allowing support opportunities elsewhere in the country.

thominator
10-13-2007, 6:30 PM
This is only going to affect guns after 2010? You don't think they are going to try and find ways to make the use of ANY handgun without it illegal?

I highly doubt gunmakers are going to retool their machines for all their handgun models to accomodate the bogus laws of 1 state of the union. Semi-autos may not even be available to us when this takes effect.

trever1t
10-13-2007, 6:36 PM
My comment about AB 50 is that it is a bill with a small impact on a small number of people. I realize that some people can't see the difference between a bill that has a small effect and a bill that has a large effect. Whenever I try to point out that some bills are more important than others, there are always people who say, "we all have to support each other and therefore every bill is equally important." That isn't logic; different bills do have different priorities. AB 50 is a low-priority badness. AB 1471 is a high-priority badness. Not because I don't care about 50 cal shooters, but because, gee, some things are more important than other things because they affect more people.


This is how they start taking away your rights. Passing "little inconsequential bills" that you give up because it isn't a big enough "effect". Slowly but surely they pass small bills until the only people who can legally posses firearms are the governing bodies. No anti-gun bill is too small to fight.
Our governor is worse than the last. He is a pawn of the Kennedy's and ought to be ousted from the Republican party.

bwiese
10-13-2007, 6:42 PM
This is why the law passed and was signed. Because people like YOU only care about what effects YOU.

Why should people who ONLY hunt, whether it's with a rifle or shotgun, give a damn about YOUR handguns. YOU didn't care about MY .50 BMG.

Rob, you are so right. CCWfacts, you don't quite get it - while your logic has a short-term practicality, the way laws are built and amended makes for trouble.

This is what happened with the first CA AWB (Roberti-Roos) - the 30 Caliber Garand/M1A types thought they were protected, "I don't need a black rifle", etc. These were the same guys trying to fix 20rd mags to their M1As when they realized that flash hiders on their M1As were illegal after the LA bust. Kinda funny (in a sad way) to see some of these same dudes popped for AW violations because they can't figure out what a flash hider is.

And the black rifles as well as handguns are also frequently shunned by the 'duck hunters'.

I'm not a hunter but I see the threat of AB821 and tried my damndest to help stop it. An attack on any segment of the shooting sports should be regarded as an attack on all of us!

Fortunately Irwin Nowick threw AB1471 into the safe handgun laws so we do have enough holes to drive a tractor thru.

Slowshooter
10-13-2007, 6:43 PM
Good call Arnold. Thank you for supporting the bill. By signing this bill, you have shut the coffin to any other support from me.

I'm really tempted to screw around with politics now. Perhaps we should start pushing for laws that would hurt liberals in the name of public safety.

I feel like I'm participating in the last stand of Carthage. Those who sought peace with Romans by turning in their weapons in were executed and those who fought lasted 3 years. You can bet that I will not support GOP on any level on any issue from now on.

CSACANNONEER
10-13-2007, 6:50 PM
The only positive thing I can see in this is it might finally get gun owners in this state to wake up.

I didn't care about AB 50. Those are scary exotic rifles. Whatever. But this is something that affects every handgun buyer in the state.

All should do what Barrett did, which is stop selling all of their products to anyone (LEOs included) in this state.

Well, maybe its time for YOU to wake up and see that YOU WERE WRONG about not caring about AB50! Why would a rifle scare you? It's an inanimate object! Maybe, we all should do something like Ronnie Barrett did and not sell any guns to people (like you) that don't support all 2A rights!

Kestryll
10-13-2007, 6:59 PM
Okay, enough of the laying in to each other!

Do you really think this is the way to consolidate gun owners in to a cohesive unit??

Just how does that work? I'll blast away at you until you're willing to work with me?

We're all disappointed, angry and frustrated but attacking another segment of gun owners is NOT the way to move forward.

What's done is done, there seems to be some room to maneuver in AB1471 and there are still battles to be fought so let's not give up the ship and start feeding on each other just yet.

Look at this as incentive to fight harder and to bring the differing gun owners more closely together not as a way to drive a bigger wedge in between us.

As long as we target ourselves we're no better for our rights then the Bradys are, and we do their work for them.

bg
10-13-2007, 6:59 PM
He had nothing to lose..He terms out in 10. I don't know if he can run
for the House or the Senate, but if so many will vote for him...cept me.

bwiese
10-13-2007, 7:09 PM
He had nothing to lose..He terms out in 10. I don't know if he can run for the House or the Senate, but if so many will vote for him...cept me.

I think he'll be running against Boxer for US Senate seat.

Given that we have good nationwide pro-gun footing at the US Senate/Congress level and a generally pro-gun environment nationally, we can kick Arnie to the curb since he can't help us or hurt us any more than Babs The Idiot can.

NIB
10-13-2007, 7:17 PM
Can we sue Swarzanezzer to force him to change his political affiliation?

CCWFacts
10-13-2007, 7:19 PM
Well, maybe its time for YOU to wake up and see that YOU WERE WRONG about not caring about AB50! Why would a rifle scare you? It's an inanimate object! Maybe, we all should do something like Ronnie Barrett did and not sell any guns to people (like you) that don't support all 2A rights!

I support all 2A rights. I triage what I work on. AB 50 didn't pass my triage. To me, things that impact lots of people, and have a direct public safety impact, are the most important.

By the way, even though I don't care about 50 cal rifles myself, I sent FOUR letters, to my reps and to Arnie, about AB 50. FOUR. With stamps and everything. How many did you send?

My letters re: AB 50:
September 4th, 2004

Governor Schwarzenegger
300 South Spring Street Ste 16701
Los Angeles, CA 90013

Dear Arnold,

I am writing to you with one reason only: I urge you to veto AB-50, should it come to your desk for a signature. This bill bans a class of firearms which have never been used in crime in California, and, due to their extreme weight, cost and complexity, are useless tools to the criminal. You have military experience. You know that specialized, heavy and complicated guns like the 50 BMG rifles targeted by AB-50 have no criminal use.

You are am immigrant to the US from a country which never had a Bill of Rights like ours. I welcome you here. You have achieved amazing things: starting as an immigrant, you built a career in bodybuilding competition, then in entertainment, and now in politics. But please respect our Bill of Rights. Every word of it is part of the foundation of our society and our liberty. You have a sworn duty to protect every single word of it, including our right to keep and bear (in modern English, to possess) arms (in modern English, weapons comparable to current military small arms.) Please do your duty here.

September 2nd, 2004

Assemblyman Paul Koretz
9200 Sunset Blvd. Penthouse 15
West Hollywood, CA 90069

Dear Assemblyman Koretz,

I am writing to you about a bill you have recently sponsored, called AB50. This bill will ban the possession of 50 caliber rifles in the state of California. I oppose AB50, and here are the reasons you must withdraw it and vote “no” on it.

I assume that you may not be a gun owner, or may not be familiar with firearms technology. If I am wrong in this, please bear with me in the following explanation.

The 50 BMG round was developed by John Browning, the legendary American firearms designer who designed many weapons which have been in continuous use by our military and civilian shooters for almost a hundred years. “BMG” stands for “Browning Machine Gun”. This round was developed for the WWI M2HB machinegun, which is still in use in our armed forces. Sometime after WWII, some civilian shooters tried chambering some rifles in this caliber, and found out that it is an exceptionally accurate long-range round. The round is far too large for hunting any land animal (it is used by native Alaskans in their indigenous hunting permitted by the IWC, but that is its only hunting use). What the 50BMG is great for is very long range target competition. It's possible to shoot this rifle accurately at ranges of over 1000 yards. This is the kind of hobby some shooters get addicted to. It's great fun.

(one more page omitted about history, use, and practical aspects of 50 cal and why it has no connection to crime or public safety)

I worry that this is part of a pattern: ban one specific class of gun after another, starting with very rare guns like 50BMG rifles, and progressing from there. In fact, I am not a 50BMG owner and I have intention of ever becoming one, but I fear that the next step may be to ban some guns which I currently own or would like to own, like target pistols. Please, do your job as a legislator and protect our country's Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment. Please also think about your legislative priorities. There are plenty of endangered species here that need to be protected, wide areas of roadless wilderness that should be saved, and lots of children who need better education. Why not focus on those issues instead of harassing law-abiding gun owners?


(and two other letters which are too long to post here)

So yeah, when I say I don't care about some gun law, what I mean is, I don't care about it, I don't want the NRA expending political capital on it, but I might as well blow the $0.37 (back when AB 50 was in play) to send a letter or two about it.

If all gun owners in this state put in as much effort as I do on issues which I don't care about, there would need to be a special freight train to Sacramento to deliver all the mail.

When it's an issue I do care about, I send more letters, I force my friends to send letters, I send money to the NRA if possible, I start a website about the issue, etc.

SemiAutoSam
10-13-2007, 7:21 PM
Oh yes about the Brady's they must have had more people calling Arnold's phone system huh ?

that is if calling did a damn bit of good anyway.

His mind was probably already made up when it hit his desk and the phone system is just something to keep the people busy that actually put stock in it.

I can honestly say without a doubt that I will not miss this state when I leave.

TacFan
10-13-2007, 7:28 PM
Hate to say it guys but I saw it coming. I knew all the phone calls and letters would not stop it from passing

The SoCal Gunner
10-13-2007, 7:50 PM
I can honestly say without a doubt that I will not miss this state when I leave.

+1. I'll leave when I get the chance for at least some time then I'll bring back some goodies.

bwiese
10-13-2007, 7:54 PM
The story I am hearing is that all of Arnie's staff was against it (1471).

In the last week the CA Chiefs of Police Assn (not sure of exact title) was pushing hard for it.

Slowshooter
10-13-2007, 7:58 PM
The story I am hearing is that all of Arnie's staff was against it (1471).

In the last week the CA Chiefs of Police Assn (not sure of exact title) was pushing hard for it.

That's my guess too. Arnold would not have gone for it, unless he had 'legitimate reason' such as this. By agreeing with police officers, he can rely on 'I was thinking in interest of public safety' excuse.

From LEO's perspective, anything to make their life/job easy will be welcome, and that is not compatible with what we citizens wish.:(

DIG
10-13-2007, 8:01 PM
So what are our options now? I've written, faxed, emailed snailmailed, called till I used up my cell phone minuites and been yelled at by the wife... and we still get bent over and sold out?...
Welcome to California! Prepare for lots of ankle-grabbing and don't forget the KY! The chaffing is a b.i.t.c.h.! It's only getting worse. The voice of the people is hardly ever acknowledged unless it brings more votes and further secures their position in office. There is no way to derail their agenda once they have their beady snake eyes set on something. It doesn't have to make sense, just sound good to the ignorant masses. This makes me sick!:mad: There is so much foul s.h.i.t. building up in this state I'm still waiting for a shift in the tectonic plate (the "big one") to break California off at the border and drop into the ocean. Glad I can swim. Ha ha ha :43: yuk yuk yuk heh heh :o

[end silly rant]

chris
10-13-2007, 8:07 PM
so sad to see this bill pass. we were thrown a bone last year by these Fing liers in crapamento. this people are nothing but traitors in my eyes and hope one day they face the hangman for infringing on the rights of the people.

it is a true a sad loss for this group we all fought hard and lost to a moron who invented this technology to sell to liberal government officials to deny the rights of many. yes he may be smart in his own right but an F**ing socialist in my view. i do not care if anyone calls me names for scorning the A**hole of this technology.

but we have fought and lost BIG TIME. it is my belief that this is the beginning of the end of gun ownership in Kalifornia. no one here is responsible for this type of crap we see today. it is you all the other gun owners who NOTHING!!! but sit on the fence and let others DO IT FOR YOU!!!

you are the type of gun owner that should be ashamed of yourself!!!!! you now have one less type of firearm that can and maybe unavailible here. thanks to your inaction while others DIT IT FOR YOU AGAIN!!!. on that day you will wonder why no one spoke up for you. well they can't because they cannot speak freely anymore. so now you are alone and no one to speak with you only yourself.BE ASHAMED BE VERY ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.

there may be a time when they come after the guns you like and this WILL HAPPEN. they are chipping away at your rights, that fine men and women are dying this very day for and you SIT ON YOUR BUTT AND DO NOTHING!!!!!:mad: again lower your head in shame. you the gun owner who DOES NOTHING. these rights were hard fought for and still are today. in less that 230 years they are getting reduced at a fenominal rate.

i know that this is a rant and i'm not done yet. i hope that by this law getting signed YOU THE LAZY ARSE GUN OWNER. you do finally do something!!! this is a fight that if we lose all rights will be gone. maybe not in my lifetime but maybe your childrens lifetime.

also remember the 2008 election. look at who may win Billery Clinton. i hope you the gun owner who does NOTHING and others do it for you!!!! i don't care if you are busy working and makin all that money. do you want to be a slave? i sure as hell do not. i hope this makes you do SOMETHING!

I WOULD RATHER BE POOR AND FREE THAT RICH AND ENSLAVED!!! that is my own saying and you should live by it.


in closing you all have done an OUTF***KINSTANDING JOB. in trying to fight this crap we see here today. i salute you all since you have fought like our forefathers did for freedom. AND YOU THE GUN OWNER WHO DOES NOTHING i hope i never see you because i have some choice words for you.

also i hope the next gun show the line at the NRA table is longer than the line to get in. if this law did not want make you want to join i sure as hell don't know what will.

again thank you all for those who called and wrote and e-mailed the useless governor.:) you are the best in this state.:)

gbran
10-13-2007, 8:15 PM
Jan 2010. Non-microstamping new or imported semi-autos deemed unsafe.
Feb 2010, I sell all my semi's and buy auto's and make a lot of money.
Jan 2011 all pre-stamping semi's banned and have to be turned in like AW B's.

gbran
10-13-2007, 8:16 PM
ooops.......sell semi's, buy revolvers.

Solidsnake87
10-13-2007, 8:47 PM
So what happens if some scumbag takes a micro stramped casing, reloads it, and commits a murder with an "unmarked" handgun?

thominator
10-13-2007, 8:48 PM
How I see it guys, is that the bottom line is they want to take our guns away. All of them. It doesn't matter what affiliation or political party Schwarzenegger or other anti-gunners belong to. The socialist agenda is to disarm the people, plain and simple. Instead of making a law that all firearms are illegal in one fell swoop, they are slowly, patiently, and systematically chipping away at the right to bear and keep arms through laws like this.

RRangel
10-13-2007, 8:50 PM
So what happens if some scumbag takes a micro stramped casing, reloads it, and commits a murder with an "unmarked" handgun?

You're using logic. That doesn't matter to socialists. The sun is still shining, and they need to make the bad guns go away.

slick_711
10-13-2007, 9:28 PM
The BGs don't have to steal your gun. All they need is to start picking up brass from 1471 compliant handguns at ranges around the state, then when they go out and murder someone, just sprinkle a random selection of proper caliber brass around the area. The cops will never be able to prove which gun did it, and none of them were theirs!

Create reasonable doubt? I think it might!

I'll take that a step further.


In the last week the CA Chiefs of Police Assn (not sure of exact title) was pushing hard for it.

Sucks to be them when I'm picking up once fired PD brass and handing it out to gangbangers.


I think when I finish school I'll move to Prescott,AZ. Nice weather w/ seasons, cozy gun laws, beautiful land, good cost of living...

Either that or we mount a San Francisco Tea (or ...?) Party.

The 2nd Amendment has been chipped away to nearly nothing, and once it's gone they'll begin chipping away at the 4th, the 6th & 7th, then the 5th, then the 1st. By destroying the 2nd they've already violated the 10th. Our precious Bill of Rights and the Constitution that backs it are heading toward a trampling, not away from one. :(

56Chevy
10-13-2007, 9:34 PM
So when Arnold runs for Senator as a Republican next, I might as well vote for the democrat, cause with his actions in last 5 months, he isn't a republican ( he wasn't much of one in the first place ) anymore.
I don't know who I can vote for anymore. Even Bush has proven to be close to a communist to me.

jjperl
10-13-2007, 9:41 PM
so when are we going to have our first official calguns protest in front the the capital building with guns in hand?

We need to make our cause public and show these motherf***ers that their BS isn't flying with us. :mad:

nothing4u
10-13-2007, 9:43 PM
Hmm, wonder if I should even waste my GI Bill in this state. Think I better start looking for a state that won't charge a veteran non-resident tuition.

SgtBulldog
10-13-2007, 9:47 PM
So what happens if some scumbag takes a micro stramped casing, reloads it, and commits a murder with an "unmarked" handgun?

Said scumbug wouldn't even need to reload it. Just pick his casings and leave yours. When the cops show up on your doorstep you get the burden to prove your innocence.

dfletcher
10-13-2007, 9:47 PM
The only thing that will cause Arnold to understand there is a price to pay for being anti - gun is if he runs for state wide office, is vocally opposed by pro - gun organizations and his subsequent loss is attributed to that defection of pro - gun voters. Unless that happens, he'll get away with it.

Rather than waiting until the general election, where the choice would be between Arnold and that miserable NY yenta Boxer, wouldn't supporting a real Republican be a better alternative?



Fransn zol esn zayn layb .....

Pvt. Cowboy
10-13-2007, 9:49 PM
Sure am sorry to hear it, Californians. :(

Hope it doesn't become a criminal charge to change out a microstamped barrel with a non-microstamped barrel, or whatever.

Best of luck to you over there.

RRangel
10-13-2007, 9:50 PM
The story I am hearing is that all of Arnie's staff was against it (1471).

In the last week the CA Chiefs of Police Assn (not sure of exact title) was pushing hard for it.

A pox on the specific Police organization. They aren't worthy to hold the positions they do if this is the sort of garbage that passes for public safety. They are an embarrassment.

dee-vee
10-13-2007, 9:51 PM
Is there a list of the police chiefs that were for it? Id like to know who the scum bags are.

Liberty1
10-13-2007, 9:54 PM
Also, who are the few Republicans that pushed this over the top. They need to be called out and defeated in their next primary.

otteray
10-13-2007, 10:02 PM
Dear NRA,
Please give Arnold an "F" for his 2nd amendment legislative actions.

I'm going bed early because I'm depressed.

Liberty1
10-13-2007, 10:06 PM
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_cfa_20070828_140345_sen_floor.html

1471 SUPPORT : (Verified 8/27/07)

Alameda County Board of Supervisors
Alameda County Office of Education
American Academy of Pediatrics
American College of Emergency Physicians State Chapter of
CA
California Chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun
Violence
Chief Aaron Baker, Pittsburg Police Department
Chief Adolfo Gonzales, National City Police Department
Chief Albert N?jera, Sacramento Police Department
Chief Andres Probst, Bell Police Department
Chief Andrew Hall, Westminster Police Department
Chief Anthony Batts, Long Beach Police Department
Chief Anthony Sollecito, Seaside Police Department
Chief Bob McDonell, Newport Police Department
Chief Camerino Sanchez, Santa Barbara Police Department
Chief Charles Montoya, Glendora Police Department
Chief Christopher Shawkey, Costa Mesa Police Department
Chief Dan Drummond, West Sacramento Police Department
Chief Dan Lawrence, Clayton Police Department
Chief Daniel Ortega, Salinas Police Department
Chief David Gullo, Campbell Police Department
Chief David L. Maggard, Irvine Police Department
Chief David Livingston, Concord Police Department
Chief David Snowden, Beverly Hills Police Department
Chief Frank Wills, West Covina Police Department
Chief Heather Fong, San Francisco Police Department
Chief Jack Van Etten, Burlingame Police Department
Chief James Hyde, Antioch Police Department
Chief James Rose, Pinole Police Department
Chief Jeffrey C. Kirkpatrick, Seal Beach Police Department
Chief Jerry Dyer, Fresno Police Department
Chief Jim Copsey, Grover Beach Police Department
Chief John Crombach, Oxnard Police Department
Chief John Welter, Anaheim Police Department
Chief Joseph Aita, San Pablo Police Department
Chief Joseph Romero, Pomona Police Department
Chief Ken James, Emeryville Police Department
Chief Kenneth Small, Huntington Beach Police Department
Chief Landy Black, Davis Police Department
Chief Larry Todd, Clearlake Police Department
Chief Lisa Ravazza, Piedmont Police Department
Chief Louis Trovato, Nevada City Police Department
Chief Lynne Johnson, Palo Alto Police Department
Chief Mark Evenson, Brentwood Police Department
Chief Michael Billdt, San Bernardino Police Department
Chief Michael Heffner, Hawthorne Police Department
Chief Michael Trevis, Huntington Park Police Department
Chief Myron Galchun, Dinuba Police Department
Chief Pat Miller, Ventura Police Department
Chief Paul Cooper, Claremont Police Department
Chief Peter Dunbar, Pleasant Hill Police Department
Chief Philip Green, Twin Cities Police Authority
Chief Randy Adams, Glendale Police Department
Chief Richard Ehle, Capitola Police Department
Chief Roger Johnson, Monrovia City Police Department
Chief Scott Holder, San Ramon Police Department
Chief Scott Jordan, Tustin Police Department
Chief Stan Stewart, Chino Police Department
Chief Steve Towles, Vernon Police Department
Chief Susan Jones, Healdsburg Police Department
Chief Susan Manheimer, San Mateo Police Department
Chief Thomas Hoefel, Burbank Police Department
Chief Thomas Soberanes, Walnut Creek Police Department
Chief Todd Mattern, Los Alamitos Police Department
Chief Wayne Hose, Stockton Police Department
Chief Wayne Tucker, Oakland Police Department
Chief William J. Bratton, Los Angeles Police Department
Chief William Lansdowne, San Diego Police Department
Christ the King Church
City & County of San Francisco
City of Los Angeles
City of Oakland
City of Sacramento
Coalition Against Gun Violence
District Attorney Kamela Harris, City and
Friends Committee on Legislation of CA
Legal Community Against Violence
Los Angeles County Police Chiefs' Association
Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, City of Los Angeles
Mayor Gavin Newsom, City of San Francisco
Mayor Jerry Sanders, City of San Diego
Orange County Chief's & Sheriff's Association
Orange County Citizens for the Prevention of Gun Violence
Police Officers Research Association of CA
Sheriff Gregory Ahern, Alameda County
Sheriff Lee Baca, Los Angeles County
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell
Violence Prevention Coalition of Orange County
Women Against Gun Violence
Youth Alive!

OPPOSITION : (Verified 8/27/07)

Beretta USA Corporation
California Assn of Firearms Retailers
California Rifle and Pistol Assn
Crossroads of the West Gun Shows
GLOCK, Inc.
Gun Owners of California
Kahr Arm and Auto Ordinance
National Rifle Association
National Shooting Sports Foundation
Outdoor Sportsmen's Coalition
Safari Club International Foundation
Sheriff Bob Doyle, Riverside County
Sheriff Clay Parker, Tehama County
Sheriff Gary Penrod, San Bernardino County
Sheriff Jim Denney, Sutter County
Sheriff Larry Jones, Glenn County
Sheriff Lorrac Craig, Trinity County
Sheriff Margaret Mims, Fresno County
Sheriff Martin A. Ryan, Amador County
Sheriff Michael Carona, Orange County
Sheriff Rick Riggins, Siskiyou County
Sheriff Scott Marshall, Colusa County
Sheriff Steve Warren, Lassen County
Sheriff Thomas D. Allman, Mendocino County
Sheriff Tom Bosenko, Shasta County
SIGARMS
Smith and Wesson
Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute
The California Sportsman's Lobby, Inc.

RRangel
10-13-2007, 10:12 PM
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_cfa_20070828_140345_sen_floor.html

1471 SUPPORT : (Verified 8/27/07)

Alameda County Board of Supervisors
Alameda County Office of Education
American Academy of Pediatrics
American College of Emergency Physicians State Chapter of
CA
California Chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun
Violence
Chief Aaron Baker, Pittsburg Police Department
Chief Adolfo Gonzales, National City Police Department
Chief Albert N?jera, Sacramento Police Department
Chief Andres Probst, Bell Police Department
Chief Andrew Hall, Westminster Police Department
Chief Anthony Batts, Long Beach Police Department
Chief Anthony Sollecito, Seaside Police Department
Chief Bob McDonell, Newport Police Department
Chief Camerino Sanchez, Santa Barbara Police Department
Chief Charles Montoya, Glendora Police Department
Chief Christopher Shawkey, Costa Mesa Police Department
Chief Dan Drummond, West Sacramento Police Department
Chief Dan Lawrence, Clayton Police Department
Chief Daniel Ortega, Salinas Police Department
Chief David Gullo, Campbell Police Department
Chief David L. Maggard, Irvine Police Department
Chief David Livingston, Concord Police Department
Chief David Snowden, Beverly Hills Police Department
Chief Frank Wills, West Covina Police Department
Chief Heather Fong, San Francisco Police Department
Chief Jack Van Etten, Burlingame Police Department
Chief James Hyde, Antioch Police Department
Chief James Rose, Pinole Police Department
Chief Jeffrey C. Kirkpatrick, Seal Beach Police Department
Chief Jerry Dyer, Fresno Police Department
Chief Jim Copsey, Grover Beach Police Department
Chief John Crombach, Oxnard Police Department
Chief John Welter, Anaheim Police Department
Chief Joseph Aita, San Pablo Police Department
Chief Joseph Romero, Pomona Police Department
Chief Ken James, Emeryville Police Department
Chief Kenneth Small, Huntington Beach Police Department
Chief Landy Black, Davis Police Department
Chief Larry Todd, Clearlake Police Department
Chief Lisa Ravazza, Piedmont Police Department
Chief Louis Trovato, Nevada City Police Department
Chief Lynne Johnson, Palo Alto Police Department
Chief Mark Evenson, Brentwood Police Department
Chief Michael Billdt, San Bernardino Police Department
Chief Michael Heffner, Hawthorne Police Department
Chief Michael Trevis, Huntington Park Police Department
Chief Myron Galchun, Dinuba Police Department
Chief Pat Miller, Ventura Police Department
Chief Paul Cooper, Claremont Police Department
Chief Peter Dunbar, Pleasant Hill Police Department
Chief Philip Green, Twin Cities Police Authority
Chief Randy Adams, Glendale Police Department
Chief Richard Ehle, Capitola Police Department
Chief Roger Johnson, Monrovia City Police Department
Chief Scott Holder, San Ramon Police Department
Chief Scott Jordan, Tustin Police Department
Chief Stan Stewart, Chino Police Department
Chief Steve Towles, Vernon Police Department
Chief Susan Jones, Healdsburg Police Department
Chief Susan Manheimer, San Mateo Police Department
Chief Thomas Hoefel, Burbank Police Department
Chief Thomas Soberanes, Walnut Creek Police Department
Chief Todd Mattern, Los Alamitos Police Department
Chief Wayne Hose, Stockton Police Department
Chief Wayne Tucker, Oakland Police Department
Chief William J. Bratton, Los Angeles Police Department
Chief William Lansdowne, San Diego Police Department
Christ the King Church
City & County of San Francisco
City of Los Angeles
City of Oakland
City of Sacramento
Coalition Against Gun Violence
District Attorney Kamela Harris, City and
Friends Committee on Legislation of CA
Legal Community Against Violence
Los Angeles County Police Chiefs' Association
Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, City of Los Angeles
Mayor Gavin Newsom, City of San Francisco
Mayor Jerry Sanders, City of San Diego
Orange County Chief's & Sheriff's Association
Orange County Citizens for the Prevention of Gun Violence
Police Officers Research Association of CA
Sheriff Gregory Ahern, Alameda County
Sheriff Lee Baca, Los Angeles County
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell
Violence Prevention Coalition of Orange County
Women Against Gun Violence
Youth Alive!

OPPOSITION : (Verified 8/27/07)

Beretta USA Corporation
California Assn of Firearms Retailers
California Rifle and Pistol Assn
Crossroads of the West Gun Shows
GLOCK, Inc.
Gun Owners of California
Kahr Arm and Auto Ordinance
National Rifle Association
National Shooting Sports Foundation
Outdoor Sportsmen's Coalition
Safari Club International Foundation
Sheriff Bob Doyle, Riverside County
Sheriff Clay Parker, Tehama County
Sheriff Gary Penrod, San Bernardino County
Sheriff Jim Denney, Sutter County
Sheriff Larry Jones, Glenn County
Sheriff Lorrac Craig, Trinity County
Sheriff Margaret Mims, Fresno County
Sheriff Martin A. Ryan, Amador County
Sheriff Michael Carona, Orange County
Sheriff Rick Riggins, Siskiyou County
Sheriff Scott Marshall, Colusa County
Sheriff Steve Warren, Lassen County
Sheriff Thomas D. Allman, Mendocino County
Sheriff Tom Bosenko, Shasta County
SIGARMS
Smith and Wesson
Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute
The California Sportsman's Lobby, Inc.

Well, now we know. I'll be the first to say what a big let down those chiefs are. This law is a disgrace. I hope those gun companies come to their senses regarding selling to anti's in this state.

Stevil
10-13-2007, 10:41 PM
Will this law apply to LEO's too, or does the badge get them a pass?

dee-vee
10-13-2007, 10:45 PM
LEO's are above the law as always.

Draven
10-13-2007, 10:45 PM
I'll take that a step further.
Sucks to be them when I'm picking up once fired PD brass and handing it out to gangbangers.


Unfortunately, 1471 is hinged on the safe handgun list, so police can buy non-microstamped pistols from out of state.

glockman19
10-13-2007, 11:07 PM
Benedict Arnold has lost my support and any future vote.

I'm looking for property in Oregon, Nevada & Arizona.

Exiledviking
10-13-2007, 11:22 PM
I'd say something but this is a public forum. :cuss::mad:

That makes 2 of us!


Seeing the list of supporters...is there a list of California Assemblymen and Senators as well?

I would like to know who, besides Arnold Kennedy, sold us out.

Guess what Arnold, I vote and I hope that most of my fellow members here do as well. We will remember...

BigDogatPlay
10-13-2007, 11:24 PM
The Governor has, once again, shown his true colors. He is a socialist Democrat whose voter registration happens to have an "R" on it for his political convenience. As much as I wished he wouldn't sign it, and as much as I sent e-mails, mailed letters and made phone calls I knew in my heart all along that he would sign it.

Peace officers with "legislative authority" to carry firearms can buy non-roster weapons without any approval needed from their agency. That means AB 1471 does not apply to them. Those peace officers whose authority to carry firearms is not granted through the penal code by rather by their agency will, I think, be screwed along with the rest of us. But since that is a DOJ policy statement, and not the law, it might be interesting to try and get that policy statement overturned as it clearly violates equal protection (if you ask me) so that they too can only buy rostered firearms. Then watch how quickly microstamping gets abandoned.

In the meantime, let's all sit back and watch the prices on semi-auto handguns go through the stratosphere.

Librarian
10-13-2007, 11:29 PM
Seeing the list of supporters...is there a list of California Assemblymen and Senators as well?

I would like to know who, besides Arnold Kennedy, sold us out.

Of course there's a list:
SenateLOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: Assembly 3rd Reading AB1471 Feuer By Torlakson
(AYES 21. NOES 17.) (PASS)
AYES
****

Alquist
Calderon
Cedillo
Corbett
Florez
Kehoe
Kuehl
Lowenthal
Machado
Migden
Oropeza
Padilla
Perata
Ridley-Thomas
Romero
Scott
Simitian
Steinberg
Torlakson
Wiggins
Yee


NOES
****

Aanestad Ackerman Ashburn Battin
Cogdill Correa Cox Denham
Ducheny Dutton Harman Hollingsworth
Maldonado Margett McClintock Runner
Wyland

AssemblyLOCATION: ASM. FLOOR
MOTION: AB 1471 FEUER Concurrence in Senate Amendments
(AYES 44. NOES 33.) (PASS)


AYES
****

Bass
Beall
Berg
Brownley
Caballero
Charles
Calderon
Carter
Coto
Davis
De La Torre
De Leon
DeSaulnier
Dymally
Eng
Evans
Feuer
Fuentes
Hancock
Hayashi
Hernandez
Huffman
Jones
Karnette
Krekorian
Laird
Leno
Levine
Lieber
Lieu
Ma
Mendoza
Mullin
Nava
Portantino
Price
Ruskin
Salas
Saldana
Solorio
Soto
Swanson
Torrico
Wolk
Nunez


NOES
****

Adams Aghazarian Anderson Arambula
Benoit Berryhill Blakeslee Cook
DeVore Duvall Emmerson Fuller
Gaines Galgiani Garcia Garrick
Horton Houston Huff Jeffries
Keene La Malfa Maze Nakanishi
Niello Parra Plescia Sharon Runner
Silva Smyth Tran Villines
Walters

1064chubbs
10-13-2007, 11:36 PM
F**k Arnie!!!!!

Army
10-13-2007, 11:38 PM
This is why I voted for Tom.

supersonic
10-13-2007, 11:41 PM
ADOLF SWARZENEGGER IS A STRAIGHT UP C*******ER. THIS IS MY OPINION. HE WAS NOT EVEN BORN IN THIS COUNTRY. HE BANNED A CALIBER (.50BMG), FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! "RETARD" DOESN'T EVEN TOUCH THE SURFACE OF THIS STEROID-RAVAGED HYPOCRITE'S MENTAL CAPACITY. C*******ING MO********ER...............................:mad:

ShooterMcGavin
10-13-2007, 11:42 PM
That's the last straw. I'm outta this piece of crap state

chris
10-13-2007, 11:49 PM
we have been betrayed and we have lost. i n my lifetime i now believe that we will have gun confiscation in this state!!!!!!

ligamentum flavum
10-13-2007, 11:50 PM
Of course there's a list:
Senate

Assembly

thanks Librarian.

i'm gonna print this list and all the aye's will not get my votes in the future.

*as an aside, i was surprised Sheriff Mims of Fresno was opposed to ab1471. i heard from several sheriff deputies that she was anti-gun.

Sam Hainn
10-14-2007, 12:08 AM
My comment about AB 50 is that it is a bill with a small impact on a small number of people. I realize that some people can't see the difference between a bill that has a small effect and a bill that has a large effect. Whenever I try to point out that some bills are more important than others, there are always people who say, "we all have to support each other and therefore every bill is equally important." That isn't logic; different bills do have different priorities. AB 50 is a low-priority badness. AB 1471 is a high-priority badness. Not because I don't care about 50 cal shooters, but because, gee, some things are more important than other things because they affect more people.

That is and was quite a mistaken view of AB50 by many gun owners. Don't you realize AB50 was the first bill to ever ban a bolt action rifle? And ban by caliber only? Don't you realize it set a precedent for being able to ban other guns by caliber regardless of action? Don't you realize, the follow-up could be a bill that bans by ".223 or 5.56 NATO" or by ".45ACP" or "any caliber .400 or more in diameter"???? You do realize they have laws like this in Europe, specifically banning guns by caliber? What is currently in Congress addressing "ballistics" and "power" was derived out of Paul Koretz's ignorance of firearms and not foreseeing .50DTC.

To minimize the power of any of these bans due to "the number of people they effect" without true comprehension of the bills as written is short-sighted. In fact, I think in the long run it will be easier to rescind AB1471 after the technology proves flawed and fictitious than to turn around AB50. I believe AB50 will lead to more damning gun-control laws than AB1471. AB50 will affect more people over the long haul than AB1471 once both are fully realized by those with technical savvy. :(

BigDogatPlay
10-14-2007, 12:24 AM
i n my lifetime i now believe that we will have gun confiscation in this state!!!!!!

Unless you are really young we already have had confiscation in your lifetime. SKS models with detachable magazines were required to be surrendered by fiat of DOJ in 1999, effective 1/1/2000.

History can repeat itself (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/californiademandsaksrifles.htm), and the Governor has set the stage by signing AB 1471.

mcubed4130
10-14-2007, 12:40 AM
One of these days before 2010 it seems; I will need to seriously consider moving to the USA. This whole PRK business sucks rocks... and Arnold who I did vote for; will never again get any support or votes from anyone in my family - and I sent him a letter saying so.

In the meantime; this monster (ab1471); appears to be dumping into the already highly annoying "Safe Handgun Laws" - which as some us have already discussed has exploitable flaws, and weaknesses in many areas.

However, in the meantime; also keep in mind C&R handguns are exempt. Myself I'm thinking a 1911 C&R (or 3) and a dozen or so CZ 52s (well maybe only 10 - 3 kids, 1 wife, me - double handed shooting = 10) may help take the edge off this pathetic news. C&R shopping time.

We lost this battle... but we can loose nearly every battle and still win the war; do what you need to do; to take the edge off this one; and get ready for the next battle.

-M3

Librarian
10-14-2007, 12:57 AM
In fact, I think in the long run it will be easier to rescind AB1471 after the technology proves flawed and fictitious
I think that highly unlikely. Legislators don't care if they were wrong, they care if they get re-elected.

They already know this will be ineffective - many of us have told them so, in great detail.

Legislators are not stupid. They're just not using an open agenda. But it isn't more hidden than with a fig-leaf; anyone who cares to look knows the summary is "I don't want to live in a world with guns."

That such a world is out of reach, and even if it were in reach it would not solve All of Mankind's Problems, doesn't matter to them: wishing just has to make it so.

Santa Cruz Armory
10-14-2007, 1:05 AM
I'm so sick... I could just :puke: on Arnie.

Sam Hainn
10-14-2007, 1:07 AM
I think that highly unlikely. Legislators don't care if they were wrong, they care if they get re-elected.

They already know this will be ineffective - many of us have told them so, in great detail.



Agreed, but you cut off part of that quote which qualified the context; the "if at all" applies only by comparison of AB1471 to AB50 as regarded a prior comparison of the two by a previous poster. The section left off: "...than to turn around AB50" - if EITHER could be turned around at all is the context, which in my belief, I agree with you that it is unlikely either could be, but if at all, by showing flawed technology, than AB1471 more so than AB50.

markymark
10-14-2007, 1:07 AM
How much does it cost to renew a firearm's listing on the safe handgun list? Can a private individual (or individuals) pay the fee to keep a gun on that list?

Stevil
10-14-2007, 1:08 AM
Let's not forget how we feel today, betrayed. When Benedict Arnold is up for his next political jaunt, let's be loud and sink him, make it known who we are... it'll be time to teach some lessons.

glockk9mm
10-14-2007, 1:32 AM
I will be using my Terminator movies as targets my next range visit.

Sam Hainn
10-14-2007, 1:34 AM
Let's not forget how we feel today, betrayed. When Benedict Arnold is up for his next political jaunt, let's be loud and sink him, make it known who we are... it'll be time to teach some lessons.

Sink him for who? I don't think we'll get that chance. He is now term limited for Governor but IS the governor until 2011. What's next? He'll run for the United States Senate (Congress, not state). I don't think any allowance for him to run for Presidency will be in place by the time he vacates Governorship - so Senate it will be. And who will you sink him for? Boxer? If anything the reason Arnold passed these two bills was to garner future votes from Democrats against an extremist like Boxer. I have a feeling CA gun owners will still see Arnold as the lesser of two evils whatever office that is, the next time around, and you will still see a majority of this board voting for him.Sorry. Just who might be the Democrat candidate against him for whatever office that is? Paul Koretz? Mike Feuer? Perata? Knox? Scott? Goldberg? Bustamante? Angelides? Villaraigosa????

Does anyone really think we will ever get someone like McClintock as Governor/ United States Senator? No, but I have a feeling that even with this, you will still see a large number of gun-rights advocates voting for Arnold next time around... AND Democrats that don't give a ratsass about guns.

turinreza
10-14-2007, 1:58 AM
Let's recall Arnie for not being a republican..

i'm serious.. if we get enough momentum going then the whole state will
see that he is going to be recalled and maybe blemish his future political career.

this along with his banning "mom" and "dad" from public schools is enough to get
the signatures we need to make them hear our voice...

j2ws2000
10-14-2007, 2:29 AM
Time for civil disobedience, time to make headlines, time to say no and let our voices be heard. Gun owners are disorganized, not united, and unfortunately quite paranoid to stand up for their rights for fear of losing their rights. I will not conform to this law.

You will not conform to this law.

We will not conform to this law.

California refuses to recognize this law.

America refuses to recognize this law.

It is time we get serious and call a spade a spade and exercise our rights as people of the United States of America. The founding heroes did not stand for this, and we can honor them by protesting this, and refusing this, and anything else that may come.

Your magazine locks and off list lowers make me sick. Your ten round magazines and muzzle breaks make me want to puke. Your new ideas for getting around a law looks as silly to me as trying to paddle your way out of a whirlpool. What happens when it is time to turn them in, will you have a redesigned stock then, perhaps a mag lock, perhaps a barrel plug so it will not fire?

A firearm is a purely defensive weapon, artillery and explosives are offensive weapons, and our founders acknowledged regulations on those. It is hard, if not impossible, to advance with a firearm, it being a defensive tool. Ask yourselves when you are pinning your magazines or welding your magwells, or buying a $1000 handgun with a microstamp, why are you being denied the right to own a defensive tool little by little?

If a homosexual movement can conquer a California major city, a minority of people, then why not us? Perhaps we are not passionate enough about our liberty? I am not saying anything about homosexuality, and I am not Catholic, but their extremists entered a Catholic Mass and made a mockery of it. I say it is time we admit these lunatics (the left) are very good at getting ideas across, and we should too. You know what we ought to do? Find enough brave men and do invasions of our own, disrupt city and state meetings dressed as the founding fathers themselves, blurting in unison, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Hell, let's have a march with unloaded flintlocks in hand, dressed as our founding fathers. Let the police strong-arm that, let the media say something about that.

Get the word out, it's time. Let us study the resistance of the past and let our elected officials know that we, the people, are the law.

KenpoProfessor
10-14-2007, 2:35 AM
How much does it cost to renew a firearm's listing on the safe handgun list? Can a private individual (or individuals) pay the fee to keep a gun on that list?

Would that really matter when Glock, Kimber, S & W, Kahr, and all the other manufacturers build a new generation gun next year and no longer produce the ones on the list? This is equivalent to the 86 MG ban for those of you in the PRK, the prices will be astronomical for something that cost near nothing the next state over. I mean look at the Keltecs, they already sell for double what everyone else pays.

BTW, I posted this new over at GlockTalk, they seem to understand the nature of why the politicians are doing this and don't degrade CA in any way like Arfcom. Seems the FFL's are going to have a couple of booming years before they go out of business when this law kicks in.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=769962


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

paradox
10-14-2007, 7:08 AM
it is a true a sad loss for this group we all fought hard and lost to a moron who invented this technology to sell to liberal government officials to deny the rights of many.

That would be Todd Lizotte, a republican.

His making money was more important to him than our freedoms.

What a way to fulfill a negative stereotype...

supersonic
10-14-2007, 7:31 AM
HOW did a person born & raised in EUROPE legally become our GOVERNOR???????
Who "bent" & "twisted" laws/rules w/ their $MEGAMILLIONS$ to make this BAD ACTOR a political force in our state? WTF am I missing? I need to go out & get some air.

rod
10-14-2007, 8:36 AM
Wow, I'm a little stunned. First, I thought AB1471 would get shot down but I was wrong there. I'm even more stunned at some of the responses I've read here. We get a kick in the balls from our elected officials and the first thing a bunch of you want to do is run to another state. Don't you know you can't run from your problems. These crazy laws will follow you to any state you run to unless we defeat these laws right here and now. We all need to stand up collectively, brush the dust off, and kick the balls of our elected officials. My dad taught me to never run from a fight or I'd get my butt kicked when I got home. If any of you think you can run from this fight, you'll get your butt kicked when you find a new home in the way of CA anti-gun laws following you to wherever you hide. To those who expressed a desire to move to a "free state", I hope you were typing out of anger. We need to work together in this fight if we hope to have a chance in defeating our enemy's.

To those who called, e-mailed, faxed, and so on, I say thank you. We gave it our best shot and we took a hit. This fight aint over though. Let's think this through and come up with a plan to take our rights back.

4 Brigada
10-14-2007, 8:55 AM
HOW did a person born & raised in EUROPE legally become our GOVERNOR???????
Who "bent" & "twisted" laws/rules w/ their $MEGAMILLIONS$ to make this BAD ACTOR a political force in our state? WTF am I missing? I need to go out & get some air.


Democracy at work, I didnt vote for him, but most of the state did. I agree with your statement, unfortunatly he will get voted into office again. I believe that this fight is not about guns, its about paychecks. The parasites in sacramento, getting payed with our taxes so they can pass laws that screw us. With respect to guns in CA enjoy them while you can, because in the not so far future you will not have that right in CA. Only the ones that can hire their personal bodyguards will have the protection of guns and the elite controllled enforcement comunity. Im not quitting but I can see that the gun owners have lost every battle in CA, AW, 50 cal now microstamping, the only reason we still have guns is because someone hasnt proposed the legislation. But if their paycheck is on the line you bet, they will send your kids to die if they have to so they can keep their jobs

SemiAutoSam
10-14-2007, 9:32 AM
They are also talking about this new dilemma of ours on the east coast gun board North East Shooters.

Most of them feel sorry for us but a few realise that poop rolls downhill and what ever our communist politicians enact here can make it to their state as well. Their politicians are almost as corrupt as ours.


http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=324565#post324565

E Pluribus Unum
10-14-2007, 9:37 AM
Why is everyone so hard on Arnold?

Reverse this a little bit:

Lets say California wanted to be a "shall issue" ccw state. Lets say we rallied our legislators, they listened, and passed a law making CCW permits a requirement for non-felons.

Would it be the job of the Governor to Veto that bill because his personal belief was against it?

It is the job of the governor to keep ALL of the people of California's interest at heart. The Bradys have been superb at spreading paranoia and false statements to the point that the average California citizen is FOR microstamping. The lemmings look at it as another "tool for law enforcement".

The governor did his job by signing that bill. If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at your assemblyman that voted for the darned thing!

thominator
10-14-2007, 9:58 AM
Sorry to disagree E, but part of his oath of office, as he swore to do, was to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. This law infringes on the 2nd ammendment. To those who think otherwise, you're fooling yourselves.

Might be time for some folks to review the traitor's swearing in.

http://gov.ca.gov/inaugural

drclark
10-14-2007, 10:02 AM
When I read the news that the governor had signed both bills I was very angry. Now I am mostly just disappointed but not shocked. Arnold has veered a sharp left ever since his failed special election. He is trying to set himself up as a viable candidate for the senate.

I am also disappointed in the reaction here. I can completely understand posting out of anger.... but realize our foe's (ie the bradys, etc) are probably reading these threads with glee. Lets try not to give them too much free entertainment.

We need to realize that we face a much bigger problem than Arnold sitting in the governor's seat. Imagine what our lives would have been like over the past 6 years if Davis were still in office. With all the bills that come out of the legislature on a yearly basis, what is life going to be like under the next governor?

The bottom line is that gun owners and gun ownership have a negative stereo type in modern soceity. The only way we are going to win in the long term is to change that stereotype. We need to show the general public that the average gun owner is not a gangbanger, terrorist to be, or anti-gov't wacko but instead is a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, a mother or father.

We need to study the methods that the gay community and more recently the illegal immigrant community have used over the past several years to gain acceptance and try to apply some of those techniques ourselves. Maybe its time to start organizing annual marchs in sacramento or other major cities. Maybe its time to start suing movie, tv, and game producers for perpetuating negative stereo types of gun owners. Regardless, we as gun owners need to unite all aspects of our community and collectively "come out of the closet".

I hope that the anger over these two bills will serve to unite the community and can be directed into constructive efforts going forward.

drc

EddieCoyle
10-14-2007, 10:06 AM
Hi all,

New member here, first post. SemiAutoSam invited me over from NortheastShooters.com.

My condolences to you all, I'm certain Massachusetts will be next. In fact, a bill has already been introduced in the Massachusetts house to serialize cases, projectiles, and ammo boxes!

Good luck fighting this. Your "brothers in arms" on the East Coast are watching because we know we're next.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
10-14-2007, 10:23 AM
Arnold what a disappointment. You have Failed California.
Never get my vote again.

Matt777
10-14-2007, 10:34 AM
I'm so disappointed in Benedict Arnold and this state. I'll be transfered out of California before the law takes effect, but until then I'm going to work hard to encourage all of my friends and family to buy a handgun before this law takes effect.

Californio
10-14-2007, 10:35 AM
Hi all,

New member here, first post. SemiAutoSam invited me over from NortheastShooters.com.

My condolences to you all, I'm certain Massachusetts will be next. In fact, a bill has already been introduced in the Massachusetts house to serialize cases, projectiles, and ammo boxes!

Good luck fighting this. Your "brothers in arms" on the East Coast are watching because we know we're next.

You are right, they plan to export this C**P to all the States they can.

bg
10-14-2007, 10:43 AM
I can only hope this will be a wake up call for the rest of the Nation who
value gun rights come the elections in 08. Sure, many will see this as just
affecting Ca and semi sidearms, but with any forethought, one can see how
this microstamping mess could be expanded in any myriad of ways to include
long guns AND wheelguns. You can bet the push will be on big time for the
"smart gun" whatever that is..

We can let others know in other states just how a democratically controlled
legislature and so called Rino Gov treats law abiding gun enthusiasts.
Hopefully this will be a rallying call to all those on the outside of Ca to
see what happens when the fix is in.

I truly believe this new Ca law will be brought forth in future debates when
the issue of firearms come up in debates. We lost here, but it doesn't mean
that the pro firearm front nationally must come 08.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a core fight for firearm rights in the future
not only here in Ca but for the country. You know kinda, kinda like Custer's
last stand..As a side note, it will be interesting to see how Heller plays out now.

So now that we have been hobbled again so to speak, how many have or
are going to renew their NRA membership now...? Because any way you
look at it, the fight for firearm rights and freedoms has just warmed up
to a uncomfortable level and we have to face it and fix it.

If not us, who ? Are we not "The People" ?

E Pluribus Unum
10-14-2007, 10:50 AM
Sorry to disagree E, but part of his oath of office, as he swore to do, was to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. This law infringes on the 2nd ammendment. To those who think otherwise, you're fooling yourselves.

Might be time for some folks to review the traitor's swearing in.

http://gov.ca.gov/inaugural

The second amendment guarantees our right to own a gun; this law does not infringe on the second amendment any more than a law requiring serial numbers on all firearms.

This law cannot be fought using the second amendment because it falls under the "reasonable restriction" limitation that the Supreme Court has ruled on.

I do not personally agree with the micro stamping issue; I think it’s a BIG waste of time and money because criminals will get hot guns with the micro stamping removed.

That being said however, With what I know of law I do not believe this is a second amendment violation as it does not prevent anyone from owning a gun; it only requires that newly manufactured guns imbed the serial number into the cartridge.

They might be able to argue that such a requirement is too strict for manufacturers to comply with and therefore effectively bans all firearms but good luck with that one….

Lakhsmi Schmendrick
10-14-2007, 10:59 AM
As far as I'm concerned, Arnold can Pisse davon.

Outlaw Josey Wales
10-14-2007, 11:05 AM
I do not personally agree with the micro stamping issue; I think itís a BIG waste of time and money because criminals will get hot guns with the micro stamping removed.



A microstamped gun would actually benefit criminals by leaving the microstamp intact. Afterall it's not many criminals that DROS their firearms.

Lakhsmi Schmendrick
10-14-2007, 11:07 AM
I haven't read all 15 pages of posts yet. I am sure somebody has already pointed out that the real effect of the law, and the intention behind it, is to restrict future gun sales in CA, by making guns more expensive and restricting the variety of guns sold in this state. Fewer gun makers will want to do business here, and will submit fewer models of guns for the CA approval process. That will put upwards pressure on new gun prices, and therefore on used gun prices, as well. The effect is that law abiding citizens, who buy their guns, will buy less of them, whereas criminals, who steal their guns, will in relative terms, own more of them.

Librarian
10-14-2007, 11:10 AM
How much does it cost to renew a firearm's listing on the safe handgun list? Can a private individual (or individuals) pay the fee to keep a gun on that list?

$200 per year per gun, and no, only a manufacturer or importer may submit guns for the list and only a qualified submitter may pay the fees.

Looks like 11 CCR s 968.91, but I can't get the web site to give me the actual text, just the history.
12131. (a) On and after January 1, 2001, the Department of Justice
shall compile, publish, and thereafter maintain a roster listing all
of the pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being
concealed upon the person that have been tested by a certified
testing laboratory, have been determined not to be unsafe handguns,
and may be sold in this state pursuant to this title. The roster
shall list, for each firearm, the manufacturer, model number, and
model name.
(b) (1) The department may charge every person in this state who
is licensed as a manufacturer of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44
(commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code,
and any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in this state, an annual
fee not exceeding the costs of preparing, publishing, and maintaining
the roster pursuant to subdivision (a) and the costs of research and
development, report analysis, firearms storage, and other program
infrastructure costs necessary to implement this chapter.Other than manufacturers and importers, DOJ is not authorized to charge a fee.

WokMaster1
10-14-2007, 11:11 AM
Americans, Californians for that matter freak out about privacy issues when it comes to the gov't & corporations sticking their nose into our lives. Many issues have been brought to court with positive results. Phone taps, etc.

Can we use the privacy issue as a challenge to this law & bring it up with the Supreme Court of California?

Kestryll
10-14-2007, 11:11 AM
No matter the language let's keep it clean, or at least relatively so.

thominator
10-14-2007, 11:13 AM
E,

This law is just another on the slippery slope of completely banning on handguns in California. Soon it will be illegal to own unstamped guns. Just use your immagination to see where this is headed. Gun-control laws are not designed to control guns. They are designed to eliminate them.

E Pluribus Unum
10-14-2007, 11:13 AM
If you have a hot gun, why remove the microstamping? It's just sending the police back to the original owner. If you have a few hot ones of the same model, swap some parts around. It would be great to have a shell with 3 different serial numbers from the slide, extractor, and firing pin in it.

Because that is how crimes are solved.

They track the gun back to the original owner... find out it was stolen in Crime 1 along with 4 other guns. Lets say they recover all 4 guns from 4 different criminals. Start cross referencing who knows who. Once you figure out everyone that these 4 criminals hang out with one can start to figure out who knows all 4.... Et cetera, et cetera.

A gun's serial number is often used to track the trail of that firearm. This is why some criminals remove the serial number.

The argument is moot; its not really about solving crimes... we all know that.

TacFan
10-14-2007, 11:24 AM
this will make it easier to frame people for crimes :chris:

E Pluribus Unum
10-14-2007, 12:10 PM
E,

This law is just another on the slippery slope of completely banning on handguns in California. Soon it will be illegal to own unstamped guns. Just use your immagination to see where this is headed. Gun-control laws are not designed to control guns. They are designed to eliminate them.

We are in 100% agreement. I know what this is all about in reality. I am simply offering my interpretation of the law. I never said I agreed with it... I do not.

I feel the second amendment means what it says, "Shall not be infringed". That phrase is not present on the first amendment (where the supreme court ruled there is reasonable restriction). I believe the "Shall not be infringed" protects EVERY person's right to own weapons, even including ex-felons. Do I PERSONALLY feel violent, repeat offending felons should be allowed to carry guns around, no. I do believe however that the second amendment affords them that right.

Personal feelings now aside.... I do not believe we have an argument that it violates the second amendment.

BigDogatPlay
10-14-2007, 12:24 PM
Personal feelings now aside.... I do not believe we have an argument that it violates the second amendment.

And I agree with you. I doubt we could find a competent court anywhere in the state that would find it so.

I do think, however, that the DOJ policy regarding LEO purchase of off roster arms is a potential. Frame the argument across the board...

** if non-microstamping arms are "unsafe", then why are LEOs allowed them?
** if then LEOs are allowed non-microstamping arms then the logical conclusion is that they are safe and hence the roster becomes an infringement.
** there is also the equal protection argument... why are LEOs afforded a broader interpretation of 2A than any other citizen?

Charliegone
10-14-2007, 12:29 PM
this will make it easier to frame people for crimes :chris:

This is what I'm afraid of. What if some criminal goes to the range and picks up some stamped brass throws it all over the crime scene (from one he just made)? It will throw the investigators into a spin...the person who shot that brass would have to show evidence they weren't at the crime scene...hell they might even confiscate your gun just because of that! Then what? Return it to you after a couple months or even years? Arrest you because you because your alibi can't be backed up (what if you live alone?)? Lots of innocent people might end up going to jail because of this technology. Where the hell are all the studies on this? Nothing..yet the legislature still approves it and Arnold still signs it...quite a way to do public policy...I hope in the future when this happens people will bankrupt the state by suing their butts for wrong arrest.

Waldog
10-14-2007, 12:33 PM
What the idiot's in the Kalifornia Central Committee (State Legislature) and
Commrade Governor Arnie don't understand is that NOW they have dramatically increased the value of stolen REVOLVERS. BAD GUYS are now going to covet REVOLVERS. Brilliant, you STATE DEMOCRATS, just BRILLIANT !!!!!!

MedSpec65
10-14-2007, 12:43 PM
With this narcissistic character running the State, the place will be bankrupt around 2010 anyhow. He's allowed the public trough-feeders to expand the deficit even more than it was when Davis was in office. This guy has a burning desire to be liked. He just doesn't have the political experience to compete with the vultures in Sacramento. Like Bush, he began appeasing the opposition the day he was elected. Maybe it's for the best. There's way too many people living in this State anyway. It's a big country. I'm looking for another place to live.

frommycolddeadhands
10-14-2007, 1:55 PM
There's way too many people living in this State anyway. It's a big country. I'm looking for another place to live.

Left 5 months ago and I can't recall being happier in my adult life. I came to visit twice and it almost sent me into a depression. You can't even imagine how good it feels when you can carry and nobody freaks out and walking out with a rifle from a store 15 minutes after you walked in it. Back there I was asked on daily basis why I need a gun, over here everyone I talked to so far started bragging about what they got, what they carry, how fast they draw and so on. Not to mention that you actually don't need to bring a diaper and a pacifier to a range, maybe a shooting bench and lunch.

KenpoProfessor
10-14-2007, 2:12 PM
Left 5 months ago and I can't recall being happier in my adult life. I came to visit twice and it almost sent me into a depression. You can't even imagine how good it feels when you can carry and nobody freaks out and walking out with a rifle from a store 15 minutes after you walked in it. Back there I was asked on daily basis why I need a gun, over here everyone I talked to so far started bragging about what they got, what they carry, how fast they draw and so on. Not to mention that you actually don't need to bring a diaper and a pacifier to a range, maybe a shooting bench and lunch.


It takes you 15 minutes? I got that beat for 5 from the time I paid the guy to him finishing the 4473 with my CCW # :D

My sanity returned as well, I was thinking some pretty evil thoughts before I left, now, I live in a state of personal euphoria. I'd swear someone was tapping my food source with happy pills.


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

.22guy
10-14-2007, 2:14 PM
Well, after some thinking, maybe Arnie had some good and valid reason for signing this legislation.



Hmmmmmmm, nope he's a commie. :chinese::90:

ligamentum flavum
10-14-2007, 4:37 PM
The story I am hearing is that all of Arnie's staff was against it (1471).

In the last week the CA Chiefs of Police Assn (not sure of exact title) was pushing hard for it.

BigDogatPlay had it right.

Why should LEO's be allowed to patrol our streets with "unsafe" handguns?

i think since these police chiefs are pushing us gun owners so hard (LAPD and the .50cal, now microstamping), we should push back.

let's find some ACLU person to make LEO weapons covered under microstamping as well so they can keep track of cartridge casings at police shootings, etc. turn the big brother tech around.

.50DE
10-14-2007, 7:58 PM
BigDogatPlay had it right.

Why should LEO's be allowed to patrol our streets with "unsafe" handguns?

i think since these police chiefs are pushing us gun owners so hard (LAPD and the .50cal, now microstamping), we should push back.

let's find some ACLU person to make LEO weapons covered under microstamping as well so they can keep track of cartridge casings at police shootings, etc. turn the big brother tech around.


This is going to ruffle allot of feathers, but its true.

LEO's are special, we are not.

We are subjects, not citizens

They Gov knows whats good for us, and will enact there laws regardless of how we feel about it.

.22guy
10-14-2007, 8:56 PM
This probably doesn't add much to the conversation, but at least Gray Davis probably would have just signed it straight away, and not made us wait, worry and wonder, and waste our stamps. :(

ibanezfoo
10-14-2007, 9:01 PM
Did anyone read the governator's statement for signing this bill? Its very obvious he didn't read it himself or even understand what others told him about it. What a turd.

-Bryan

big50_1
10-14-2007, 10:42 PM
Why would anyone in their right mind go to a range and fire a MS-equipped pistol and leave casings all over? That's like throwing your Visa/Mastercard slips with your card numbers in the trash. Most of the time, no problem; but that one time that someone goes dumpster diving for your info or gathers casings for spreading at a crime scene, you are hosed big time. Also what happens if the MS stamps are somehow damaged? Does that mean that my possession of a pistol with damaged MS stamps makes me a felon? I am so tired of being ignored in CA. As a traditional-type of guy, rules and regs coming from Sacramento just keep spitting in my face, so to speak. Is there any politician out there who gives a c__p about a traditional-conservative person? I am so fundamentally offended that I am beyond shaking my head. I just don't know anymore.

Addax
10-14-2007, 11:39 PM
Reporter Commentary:
AB1471 will make the streets of California safer since now the state is taking direct action against those who will commit crimes using a legally purchased handgun. California has one of the most comprehensive firearms controls laws and AB1471 is just another one of the successful laws passed here in California in recent years to help prevent crime and to reduce the amount of gang members on the streets who use guns to commit crimes.

This new and great technology and it will help to prevent crime since the really really bad people who do crimes will not go to a gun store and buy a gun that can be traced back to them...

Even though the technology has been tested, there have been some failures in microstamping properly, so the firearms mfg's will not have to work double time to make the technology a consistent and viable solution.

These gang members and criminals will now be forced to steal guns that do not have this microstamping from law abiding gun owners and / or they will end up going across the border into Mexico or other states to buy guns off the streets to bring back into California.

The current statistics show that over 95% of all gang member firearms related crimes are done with firearms that have been stolen or have come up from Mexico.

Statistics also show that street gang activity will be reduced by approx. 50% (such as Drive By Shootings) since these gangs will be trying to break into peoples homes and steal their handguns that do not have the microstamping technology.

So this Microstamping law will help to prevent the 5% of firearms related crimes in California every year, using a technology that needs time to be perfected, while the other 95% goes unchecked, but that is small price to pay in the war to prevent firearms getting into the wrong hands...

Hypothectial Reporter Commentary....

accordingtoome
10-14-2007, 11:55 PM
The best ****ing part is that this piece of **** is going to take effect five days after my 21st birthday. :mad:

wow that just sucks..:rolleyes:

accordingtoome
10-14-2007, 11:58 PM
This is what I'm afraid of. What if some criminal goes to the range and picks up some stamped brass throws it all over the crime scene (from one he just made)? It will throw the investigators into a spin... .


thats a great idea.. :43: i was actually just thinking that same thing when i read your post

Applehaus21st
10-15-2007, 12:48 AM
This really sucks! And to make it worse, we taxpayers are paying those people who did this to us.

odysseus
10-15-2007, 1:46 AM
Arnold, who often claims that Ronald Reagan was a hero and example to him. Reagan would not have signed this bill, nor would accept Arnold's "performance" as governor. Arnold is a fake conservative (barely one anyway) and a hypocrite.

OCResident
10-15-2007, 2:43 AM
I think it's time for some hardball and a change in strategy for all involved - including NRA/CRPA/etc.

We don't have the collective power to knock a California Dem candidate out of a major office like Governor/US Senate/etc. - but why not hit hard at a local level?

One at a time, target one or two State Assembly or Senators at a time - pump BIG money campaigning against them even supporting any other Democrat in their district if a Republican won't stand a chance. Knocking Feurer or Perata, for example, out of office would send a strong message - author anti-gun bills and lose your job. Make it a repeatable process every election. This seems doable. We can target non-local money at local elections. It wouldn't take an inordinate amount of money to change a local campaign - and supporting a DIFFERENT Democrat in a Democratically held district is almost like using their non-public agenda against them.

I think that is how we could make a difference in California politics. Everyone is focusing on Arnold - how about the other state Assembly members and Senators that got the bill to his desk? Their jobs are within our reach and their names are posted. Let's start with the authors.

Bimmerworld
10-15-2007, 7:53 AM
Oh thank god for this.

I feel safer already!















:mad:

SemiAutoSam
10-15-2007, 8:03 AM
a list of assemblymen and or state Senators that voted for this wonderful peice of legislation ?

I found it.



http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070910_0159PM_asm_floor.html
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070906_0419PM_sen_floor.html
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070626_000001_sen_comm.html
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070529_0356PM_asm_floor.html
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070516_000001_asm_comm.html
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1451-1500/ab_1471_vote_20070424_000002_asm_comm.html

DIG
10-15-2007, 2:37 PM
That's the last straw. I'm outta this piece of crap state

I hear you on that. March '08 isn't coming quick enough for me. The problem is that the ignorance and paranoia that spawned these new laws are not limited to within the borders of PRK. It'll spread throughout the nation like a plague. This cr@p has to be stopped here. IMO, this is where the line should be drawn. I'm afraid the voice of us Calgunner's is not strong enough to drown out the massive list of microstamping supporters. Remember, "Chiefs" know better than us; after all, they are, Chiefs ...we're just gun-nuts. :mad:

DIG
10-15-2007, 2:43 PM
Did anyone read the governator's statement for signing this bill? Its very obvious he didn't read it himself or even understand what others told him about it. What a turd.

-Bryan

yeah, it's ridiculas. generic statement. this guy has no heart. ..frickn' puppet. he had a list of bill's to sign longer than my ...leg. he was on auto-pilot, just signing away to keep that pen moving. There are many, many more important issues in CA that need addressing before even looking at 1471.:mad:

psriley
10-16-2007, 1:05 AM
Well, like everyone here I'm extremely disappointed. Here's a couple of optimistic viewpoints, though.

You still have a couple of years to grow your collections before this nonsense legislation takes affect. Do so. I know my handgun-purchasing agenda just got very full. Yes, there could be subsequent legislation banning possession of non-MS firearms, but we still have time to make sure that does not happen. Let's be galvanized by what did just happen.

If this type of legislation becomes federal, or is enacted in other states, it is more likely that manufacturers will institutionalize microstamping into their product lines, therefore it doesn't cost them all that much more to do business in CA. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here. I regard this law as an abomination and as an insult to all responsible citizens, but if it does spread to other states, CA may benefit from economy of scale.

Undoubtedly, there will be a multitude of stamped cases found at crime scenes, whether they be from stolen compliant firearms, substituted cases, etc. There may even be situations in which cases have multiple stamps (I guess no one explained to the legislators the concept of reloading). All of these stamps will be misleading...none of them will actually help in solving the crime, but will require exponentially more man-hours to trace down the stamps. Suppose scumbags decided to sprinkle 100 or 200 or 500 differently-stamped cases at a crime scene? There will emerge a black market of legitimately and falsely stamped cases or even stamped reloads for just this clientele. In practice, microstamping will likely fail miserably because it will actually hinder law enforcement. In fact, it will probably suggest to criminals a way to cover their tracks that they may never have thought of before. There is hope for repeal based on real-world results. This will take years, however.

Not trying to be Mary Sunshine here, because we have been hard done by...no getting around that. But I think it's incumbent upon all of us to be the level-headed interest group we know ourselves to be, circle the wagons, figure out how we lost this one, and use the time available to figure out how to fix it. Venting at the governor and resolving to leave the state are understandable responses, but ultimately futile. Unfortunately, there are probably statistics that make the governor feel just fine about his decision. Leaving the state solves your problem temporarily, but ultimately this is anti-gun momentum that could impact you anywhere in this country, and sooner than you might think. I, for one, am thinking seriously about a career change (not just because of gun stuff). I was headed to law school after college, but got sidetracked. Time to dust off those LSAT study guides...

Cheer up!

Librarian
10-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Am i reading it right that just three votes in the senate going our way would have stopped this abomination from passing?
Yes.

See any folks in the "aye" list you think can be moved off the anti-gun stance?

Me neither.

davedog665
10-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Doh" everything has been said and i agree with all of you

Calguns2000
10-16-2007, 2:31 PM
Well, like everyone here I'm extremely disappointed. Here's a couple of optimistic viewpoints, though.

You still have a couple of years to grow your collections before this nonsense legislation takes affect. Do so. I know my handgun-purchasing agenda just got very full. Yes, there could be subsequent legislation banning possession of non-MS firearms, but we still have time to make sure that does not happen. Let's be galvanized by what did just happen.

If this type of legislation becomes federal, or is enacted in other states, it is more likely that manufacturers will institutionalize microstamping into their product lines, therefore it doesn't cost them all that much more to do business in CA. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here. I regard this law as an abomination and as an insult to all responsible citizens, but if it does spread to other states, CA may benefit from economy of scale.

Undoubtedly, there will be a multitude of stamped cases found at crime scenes, whether they be from stolen compliant firearms, substituted cases, etc. There may even be situations in which cases have multiple stamps (I guess no one explained to the legislators the concept of reloading). All of these stamps will be misleading...none of them will actually help in solving the crime, but will require exponentially more man-hours to trace down the stamps. Suppose scumbags decided to sprinkle 100 or 200 or 500 differently-stamped cases at a crime scene? There will emerge a black market of legitimately and falsely stamped cases or even stamped reloads for just this clientele. In practice, microstamping will likely fail miserably because it will actually hinder law enforcement. In fact, it will probably suggest to criminals a way to cover their tracks that they may never have thought of before. There is hope for repeal based on real-world results. This will take years, however.

Not trying to be Mary Sunshine here, because we have been hard done by...no getting around that. But I think it's incumbent upon all of us to be the level-headed interest group we know ourselves to be, circle the wagons, figure out how we lost this one, and use the time available to figure out how to fix it. Venting at the governor and resolving to leave the state are understandable responses, but ultimately futile. Unfortunately, there are probably statistics that make the governor feel just fine about his decision. Leaving the state solves your problem temporarily, but ultimately this is anti-gun momentum that could impact you anywhere in this country, and sooner than you might think. I, for one, am thinking seriously about a career change (not just because of gun stuff). I was headed to law school after college, but got sidetracked. Time to dust off those LSAT study guides...

Cheer up!Microstamping could actually increase crime, as a criminal can drop a handful of microstamped brass at the crime scene and then use the existence of the multitude of other possible perpetrators as a defense which could lead to a jury being unable to find the criminal guilty "beyond a shadow of a doubt".

bulgron
10-16-2007, 4:22 PM
Microstamping could actually increase crime, as a criminal can drop a handful of microstamped brass at the crime scene and then use the existence of the multitude of other possible perpetrators as a defense which could lead to a jury being unable to find the criminal guilty "beyond a shadow of a doubt".

Hmmm.... but wouldn't the stamp on the primer be the ultimate identifying mark? The brass might have multiple stamps, but there's going to be only one on the primer.

Of course, if the firing pin gets filed down, but the ejector doesn't, then it makes sense to use brass that's been reloaded two or three times.

Salting the crime scene with brass of equal caliber makes more sense to me, if what you want to do is cover your criminal tracks. But let's be honest. If a criminal is thinking that far enough in advance, won't he either file away all the microstamping features of the gun or, more likely, purchase an older semiauto without the microstamping features?

I wonder if there's going to be an underground industry of people who remove microstamping features for the criminal (gang) elements in our society.

At the end of the day, there's no way this legislation will do anything other than harrass law-abiding gun owners. :mad:

Shame on you, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Kilbane
10-17-2007, 5:00 AM
"My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it.People need somebody to watch over them.Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave" -Arnold, 1990, in U.S. News.http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/articles/030915/15whisplead_2.htm




Ermm Sieg Hiel?:rolleyes:

thominator
10-17-2007, 4:13 PM
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/thomer_bucket/arnie_future_.jpg

daskraut
10-17-2007, 7:43 PM
I really thought he would have the brains to pass on this flawed law, what a dumb*****!. I can't believe I used to admire this guy when we worked out at world gym in venice......really sad.

Outlaw
10-17-2007, 7:52 PM
Great this sucks!

Slick
10-18-2007, 10:23 AM
that nazi piece of **** Arnold.

Like father, like son...

Jack_Bauer
10-18-2007, 3:16 PM
Hmmm.... but wouldn't the stamp on the primer be the ultimate identifying mark? The brass might have multiple stamps, but there's going to be only one on the primer.



That's assuming you know which case held the bullet that was used in the crime.

Colorado_Penguin
10-18-2007, 7:06 PM
I've read and reread the Penal Code change several times. I found it interesting that the change is that if the handgun DOES NOT have the microcode it is deemed "UNSAFE". As pointed out elsewhere, the key path is that any new handgun would have to be placed on the approved SAFE LIST, which is the way it is now.

Has anyone thought of this..... I've not found anything that prevents the DOJ from saying that guns not on the current "SAFE LIST" (new semiautos) are "UNSAFE" (e.g. does not have microstamping (read here... any semiauto handgun we currently have)). What prevents them from saying we need to gather up all the "UNSAFE" semiauto handguns? The code was very specific that a semiauto handgun needs to be on the "SAFE LIST", no mention of older ones that dropped off the list or older ones that have never been on the list.)

Did I miss something? The way I read it, DOJ could say on Jan 1, 2010 all semiautos handguns without microstamp is unsafe and needs to be disposed of. (And don't think that any of the currently listed SAFE handguns will not have an experation date of Dec 31, 2009 (unless they are a microstamp model))

Librarian
10-18-2007, 8:29 PM
If you abbreviate the way you just did, you validate what the antis want you to think.

You need to use the correct terminology, even if it makes no sense.

It's not a 'safe list', it's the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

Guns on the Roster are not 'safe', they're 'not unsafe'.
What prevents them from saying we need to gather up all the "UNSAFE" semiauto handguns? Probably fear of an actual revolution. As far as we've gone down that road in California, a demand to turn in a large number of guns almost certainly will not pass Federal court scrutiny. I get the feeling that that would be a tipping point for a lot of people...

They could do something like require guns to be on the Roster in order to be legal to transfer within the state. Then. like 'assault weapons', we could have them, but not sell them, buy new ones, or hand them down to our children.

gunrun45
10-19-2007, 1:20 AM
Here's the real kicker...
The CA DOJ did a test on this idea several years ago.
Wanna know what they found?
Micro stamping doesn't work. After the first few rounds the stamping device (firing pin) became covered with debrise and failed to impart a legible identifing imprint on the primer.

Anyone who does firing pin impression identification can tell you that the firing pins unique identifying characteristics change over the span of firing/ cleaning the weapon.

I guess madnatory cleaning of all firing pins after 5 rounds will be the next law...

One word.
Idiots!

SFV_Dealer
10-25-2007, 8:22 AM
Hmmm. My 2 cents:

This law sounds like a feel good legislation by politicians who report to their population... Law doesn't change bad guys from getting guns anyway - just hinders the entire law abiding folks.

The $64,000 question:
Why don't the law enforcement community stop the felons from getting their hands on guns & ammo in the first place instead of hindering the law abiding ???

So let me get this straight, as a firearms dealer, Pre 2010 purchased handguns will be available for PPT and Post 2010 guns will be restricted.. So it's time to buy up as many semi auto handguns before 2010 ???

SemiAutoSam
10-25-2007, 9:06 AM
Pat,

Your thinking of politicians that would be working for you and me and this kind of politician just does not exist in our this construct of our reality.

And yes your correct its Legislation that pleases the ignorant constituent of the politicians and helps keep them in office to proceed with their plans of socialism and communism.




Hmmm. My 2 cents:
This law sounds like a feel good legislation by politicians who report to their population... Law doesn't change bad guys from getting guns anyway - just hinders the entire law abiding folks.


Who would they have to shoot at if felons dont have guns ?


The $64,000 question:
Why don't the law enforcement community stop the felons from getting their hands on guns & ammo in the first place instead of hindering the law abiding ???


Unless they change the law about PPT between now and then, Don't kid yourself this could happen.

Who would have thought in the 1970's that we would have to wait 10 days to purchase a gun or have this supposed safe handgun list?

There is no 2nd guessing the lawmakers and what new unconstitutional law they will create for the future.


So let me get this straight, as a firearms dealer, Pre 2010 purchased handguns will be available for PPT and Post 2010 guns will be restricted.. So it's time to buy up as many semi auto handguns before 2010 ???

bwiese
10-25-2007, 9:11 AM
Relax, folks.

AB1471 has lots of issues due to interesting language surrounding patent matters. It's likely unimplementable when we get to the regulatory stage - at least for 17+ years, maybe more. I don't think DOJ BoFfers want to referree patent wars (nor could they, they don't have the skills).

Don't panic, continue to buy your handguns at your regular pace.

Spdjunkie
10-25-2007, 11:40 PM
Relax, folks.

AB1471 has lots of issues due to interesting language surrounding patent matters. It's likely unimplementable when we get to the regulatory stage - at least for 17+ years, maybe more. I don't think DOJ BoFfers want to referree patent wars (nor could they, they don't have the skills).

Don't panic, continue to buy your handguns at your regular pace.

AGREE !!! +1000000000------% :D

Money Hungry @$$ #0!#$ !!! :mad:

Ford8N
10-26-2007, 9:59 AM
There is no 2nd guessing the lawmakers and what new unconstitutional law they will create for the future.



The US constitution does not apply to this state or it's subjects. Heck, they could say something is a Felony to own if you are a subject(resident) of this state, but just across the state line it is legal to own, buy, ect. It has been discussed before, otherwise we would be using only Federal gun laws like the majority of the US.


California sux.

tombinghamthegreat
10-29-2007, 11:02 AM
At least i will be 21 before th law goes into effect. Is it possible that CA could add on the bill "that any semi auto gun without a micro stamper is a felony to own". I could see CA just making another trap for people exercising our rights as Americans.

StukaJr
10-29-2007, 12:20 PM
Relax, folks.

AB1471 has lots of issues due to interesting language surrounding patent matters. It's likely unimplementable when we get to the regulatory stage - at least for 17+ years, maybe more. I don't think DOJ BoFfers want to referree patent wars (nor could they, they don't have the skills).

Don't panic, continue to buy your handguns at your regular pace.

Word! You just saved me thousands on cosmetic surgery to remove frown and worry wrinkles! :cool:

Sergeant
10-29-2007, 3:46 PM
A. Hitler, was not a German, but Austrian...
He worked out to have a German citizenship and become the leader...
What he did? We all know... (Guns only for responsible Gov. agencies - GESTAPO and such...). Every one is happy, no crime, no guns, just bunch
of freedom... Ya?
Guess what?
A. Shwartzneeger is also from Austria, Great little country which not only
produces great gun - Glock, but, also dictators... Ya?
If history goes by loops, He may be the first "Not US born President" or perhaps Canceler, and we all be very happy and united nation "finally"... Yaaaaaa?

Besides, you will buying a Gun and Engaving machine at once, and that is cooool... Hey let's put GPS and camera on it, perhaps MP3 player...
no, no, no... a cellular phone, so it will call to the police, every time you
pull the trigger and reports you actual coordinates, what a fun... Ya?