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View Full Version : My TRO nightmare and my guns


Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 10:42 AM
Well....I've been waiting to post this until the whole thing was concluded...but here it is.

I have always had custody of my 2 children from a previous marriage....my ex-wife has drug problems and I have a standing court order that allows me to drug test her anytime I want (at my expense) with 4 hour notice.

3 weeks ago I had ordered my ex to drug test (which she refused to take)after she flew off the handle while returning the kids to me after her visitation. This is usually a sign of a relapse of her drug problem as she has only had visitation back for a month and a half since the last drug problem.

Well.....as retaliation and to help draw attention from the failed drug test (it's considered a failure if she refuses the test), she filed a Temporary restraining order for domestic violence against me (which never occured other than I yelled at her while she yelled at me..no threats, etc). Then she had me served the restraining order within an hour of when I was leaving (it was a friday) on a 4 day deer hunting trip (she knew this from my kids).

Needless to say.....my trip was cancelled as I now am not allowed to possess firearms anymore and must sell all of them to a FFL or turn them over to law enforcement. Thats what the court order states.:eek:

So I did a PPT to my brother of all my firearms the next morning (cost me several hundred dollars).....after the fact I found out I was supposed to have the FFL fill out another form,etc.

Then....I get a letter fro the sheriffs dept saying my CCW was revoked because of the TRO!:banghead:

Now I spent the last 3 weeks worried and totally devestated.....I know I didn't do anything wrong, but I worried the judge may just give it to her anyways "just to be safe".

I went and talked to a lawyer......and I had already written a somewhat rough response to show the lawyer to help her write the official response to file. She basically said....this is great...and that I didn't really need her. And that she could take my money if I really want her to...but she thought I had it covered by myself and that my exwife should get thrown out on her ear. Then, she didn't even charge me for the 45 minute consultation where she helped my fine tune my response and gave me ideas and other help with some visitation issues (like getting her visitation supervised again after this failed drug test).

This really did make me feel better (but not great) about the whole thing and I decided to go it pro per.

Well....yesterday was the court date and he heard the evidence and said he would give a finding that afternoon. I recieved it this morning......her restraining order was denied! :D

Well...I'm out hundreds of dollars and my CCW is revoked....but at least I get my guns back today. I'm going to write a letter to the Sheriff asking him to reinstate my CCW....but I doubt that it will really happen. At best...maybe I can go through with the class again, apply, etc and get one again. But I worry that this may have permanantly screwed it up for me......

Anyways...it's amazing that someone can go down and mess with your life with zero proof and it can even get thown out and denied by the judge and still have lasting effects on my rights...:(

AJAX22
10-11-2007, 10:58 AM
I'm glad you came out ok from all this with your gun collection intact.

I can't believe this is what we've come to as a society, disarming people because of a he said she said situation.

What would have happened if you had homeade pistols that cannot be transfered in the state of CA? or a registered AW?

What repercussions will your ex be facing? Jail time for filing a false report?

It seems silly that someone who has a CCW because (in part) of their psychotic ex can have it suspended by filing a false claim.

where's the logic in that?

N6ATF
10-11-2007, 10:58 AM
Sounds like she needs to have all visitation rights revoked and you need to take your kids and move as far away as possible and don't leave a trail.

She's going to keep pulling this crap just as long as there are other things in your life that can be harmed by her lies.

The SoCal Gunner
10-11-2007, 11:00 AM
I don't see why the sheriff would not reinstate your ccw providing that even the court denied her restraining order. I think a decent explanation would do and you also have a new reason for having the ccw, the crazy addict wife.

Ten Rounder
10-11-2007, 11:02 AM
Good to hear you landed with the shinny side up(aircraft joke). Dealing with the sheriff should be easy. Should be the same as a renewal. TRO is just that, temporary. What my take some time is what paperwork that might have been sent to Sacramento behind your back. You might be in limbo for a bit.

bulgron
10-11-2007, 11:04 AM
They revoked the CCW? Is it possible to simply suspend one pending the outcome of a judge's hearing? I think it sucks that even that much can be done to someone based on a he-said/she-said situation, but at least a suspension isn't necessarily a permanent thing.

troyPhD
10-11-2007, 11:08 AM
I'm never getting married. Sheez.

savasyn
10-11-2007, 11:13 AM
How can they act on a TRO before the judge rules on it? Luckily, I've never had to deal with anything like this so I have no idea how they work.

RobG
10-11-2007, 11:34 AM
How can they act on a TRO before the judge rules on it?
That was my question too. Maybe its Temporary until the judge decides if it should be permanent :confused:

Good for you and your kids on the positive outcome!

45DAVID1
10-11-2007, 11:43 AM
I'm never getting married. Sheez.

Marraige isn't that bad if you find the right woman and know the rules. You will always be wrong in every arguement and no matter what she is wearing she looks good. Ask me how I know.... because i broke both of those rules, im getting a divorce, am in the process of trying not to lose a house, and i'm getting "rid" of all my firearms. Nevermind, don't get married!

Clodbuster
10-11-2007, 12:27 PM
Do you need to be married to have a TRO served to you?


I'm never getting married. Sheez.

Johnny Diablo
10-11-2007, 12:36 PM
Good on you, for looking out for the kids with that drug test.

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 1:57 PM
Do you need to be married to have a TRO served to you?

Nope....if you even ever dated a gal she could file a TRO on you.

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 2:03 PM
Also...my CCW was REVOKED...not suspended. The letter from the Sheriff said it was revoked due to the TRO made me ineligible for a CCW. And that the DOJ had been notified and that I should return my CCW to the Sheriffs dept as soon as possible.

I wish it would have just been suspended...as that would probably been easier to get reinstated. But I don't know if they are even allowed to suspend one.....

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 2:04 PM
go set up a meeting with the sherriff.don't just write a letter and send it. go ahead and write one and bring it with you to the meeting. face to faces are alot better and more personal than talking over the phone or through letters. make sure to be calm and collected even if they start to ask you difficult questions. what county was this in by the way

Thats a good idea....lets see if I can even get a face to face with him though.

Smokeybehr
10-11-2007, 2:31 PM
Also...my CCW was REVOKED...not suspended. The letter from the Sheriff said it was revoked due to the TRO made me ineligible for a CCW. And that the DOJ had been notified and that I should return my CCW to the Sheriffs dept as soon as possible.

I wish it would have just been suspended...as that would probably been easier to get reinstated. But I don't know if they are even allowed to suspend one.....

Reading the different related PC sections, when you were served with the TRO, you became a "prohibited person", and your CCW had to be revoked. Look at PC12050 (e) (1) and 12021 (g) (2) for the relevent sections.

Standard IANAL disclaimer applies.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2007, 3:14 PM
Reading the different related PC sections, when you were served with the TRO, you became a "prohibited person", and your CCW had to be revoked. Look at PC12050 (e) (1) and 12021 (g) (2) for the relevent sections.

It might be a good idea when talking to the Sheriff to let him know that you understand he had to revoke your CCW, but now that the TRO is gone you'd like to start the process all over again.

He may be less likely to grant you a CCW if he thinks you hold a grudge against him. :p

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 3:43 PM
Thanks for the Code....very helpful...and you were right. Looks like I need to reapply all over again....:(

I'll try talking to the sheriff first though....Anyone know how long it takes the DOJ to get their records straight after the judge makes a finding? I'm waiting on the official paperwork from the court before I talk to the Sheriff.....

Creeping Incrementalism
10-11-2007, 5:24 PM
This situation is so atrocious--any psycho you ever date can cause this much legal damage to you over a total fabrication. Other states aren't like this, are they? How is Nevada or Arizona?

BigDogatPlay
10-11-2007, 5:35 PM
Have you considered filing a small claims action against her for the $$$ you had to go out of pocket on PPT fees based on her specious filing for TRO? She filed her application which caused you, the law abiding citizen, to take action required by law that cost you money. Since her claim was not upheld I should think you should enjoy right of recovery on the loss her actions forced you to take.

Hitting her in the wallet would probably get her pause to shut the heck up for a while anyway, and holding a monetary judgement over her could be an interesting bit of leverage down the road. It might also give her the idea that her emotion driven actions can have consequences when they blow up in her backside so it's better to not have those emotions.

Best of luck with the CCW permit. If the Sheriff is of a mind to issue them at all, which if you had one in the first place clearly he is, I'd expect he'd at least give you a fair hearing on getting it reinstated.

Knauga
10-11-2007, 6:08 PM
CCW is purely at the discretion of the Sheriff. If he chooses, he could in fact reissue your CCW without having to go through all of the BS and wait associated with it. That would be up to him, and if he is sympathetic to your problem he might. A face to face meeting may help you there, you can bring him a copy of the judgement denying the restraining order, your original court order/judgement from the divorce. Were you able to have the judge put any further restrictions on your ex at that hearing? Failing a drug test (failing to take one) and wasting the courts time with a BS TRO is likely to put a judge in the mood for sanctions.

I am very disturbed that a TRO issued at the ravings of a known drug abuser can be used to revoke a CCW for somebody who has a proven track record.

Knauga
10-11-2007, 6:11 PM
Women can go insane... I was married to one who seemed fairly reasonable when we were dating. She toyed with the idea of accusing me with domestic violence, went so far as to cause injury to herself. The only reason that she didn't follow through was the fact that HER friend who she was trying out the story on told her that not only did she think she was lying, but that she (her friend) would go to court and testify on my behalf if she tried anything like that.

Marriage is a mine field without any maps and best left only to the extremely brave or incredibly stupid :D

metalhead357
10-11-2007, 6:24 PM
That was my question too. Maybe its Temporary until the judge decides if it should be permanent :confused:

Good for you and your kids on the positive outcome!

THAT IS the way it goes; JUST had this conversation with a buddy who didn' think TRO were a "big deal" as his co-worker was thinking he was going to be getting one soon. After I explained pretty much just what our OP went through- my buddy was on the phone and his siter assumed all the guns.....thankfully NO TRO came about.

Rule of thumb; if it starts going south-- Be the first to the courthouse and protect your guns and assessts...........


Dude, FWIW...I'm sorry you went through this; write a personal letter to the sherrif and explain what happened; include a court transcript if possible; you MIGHT just get that CCW back..........maybe a long shot, maybe not......

ccwguy
10-11-2007, 6:48 PM
TRO- TemporaryRestraining order. You still get your day in court to prove otherwise. Sell your guns? Not real sure about selling them.. You are simply restricted from possessing them.I believe they can be held by a friend, an FFL in state or out until the TRO is validated for being an RO. She did the DV approach to save the $175 serving fees. She can be charged with filing a false police report if you have all your ducks in a row for court. Prove her wrong.

thedrickel
10-11-2007, 7:33 PM
A false domestic violence claim is by far my biggest fear. I hate those damn DV laws, they are ridiculous. If she had made a mark on herself and gone to the hospital (who would have called the cops), you would be screwed. Let's hope she's not that smart.

Smokeybehr
10-11-2007, 8:41 PM
3 weeks ago I had ordered my ex to drug test (which she refused to take)after she flew off the handle while returning the kids to me after her visitation. This is usually a sign of a relapse of her drug problem as she has only had visitation back for a month and a half since the last drug problem.


The next time that she comes to pick up and drop off the kids, I'd have an LEO there as a civil standby in case she tries to pull this crap again. I'd make sure that you make her do a whiz quiz BEFORE she gets the kids, as well as after. That way you know if she's been using before, is UI, or was using while the kids were in her care. If any one of those happens, you have good grounds for going after her to revoke her visitation privileges.

If you can, I'd also see about getting a little video surveillance if possible, so that you have evidence of what she does or doesn't do when you're making the exchange.

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 9:23 PM
The next time that she comes to pick up and drop off the kids, I'd have an LEO there as a civil standby in case she tries to pull this crap again. I'd make sure that you make her do a whiz quiz BEFORE she gets the kids, as well as after. That way you know if she's been using before, is UI, or was using while the kids were in her care. If any one of those happens, you have good grounds for going after her to revoke her visitation privileges.

If you can, I'd also see about getting a little video surveillance if possible, so that you have evidence of what she does or doesn't do when you're making the exchange.


Very good ideas.....I actually have to go to court with her again on Monday for the visitation hearing. Her visitation has been suspended/supervised 4 times in the last 2.5 years for drugs.....and her failure to take the drug test within 4 hours is considered a dirty test. So...this time I'm asking that her visitation be supervised for a complete year by a court approved supervisor among other things. I believe it may be granted...it will at least be supervised again for several months until she proves clean for a period of time. I've done that before several times following a dirty drug test.

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 9:29 PM
TRO- TemporaryRestraining order. You still get your day in court to prove otherwise. Sell your guns? Not real sure about selling them.. You are simply restricted from possessing them.I believe they can be held by a friend, an FFL in state or out until the TRO is validated for being an RO. She did the DV approach to save the $175 serving fees. She can be charged with filing a false police report if you have all your ducks in a row for court. Prove her wrong.


Well...The actual TRO said I had 2 choices...turn firearms over to LE or SELL them to a FFL.

But I already beat the RO...so the Temporary is gone. And she never filed a police report....she just walked in the court house and filled out the short form with a pen and my gun rights were temporarily gone along with my CCW, etc.

Sueing her is a waste of time though....she has nothing and has no money. She lives on $800 a month from Social Security Disability because she's Bipolar.

Whitesmoke
10-11-2007, 9:31 PM
Dude, FWIW...I'm sorry you went through this; write a personal letter to the sherrif and explain what happened; include a court transcript if possible; you MIGHT just get that CCW back..........maybe a long shot, maybe not......

Thanks man...I'm going to try for sure...after carrying for the last several years...it just seems wrong to not be able to.:mad:

artherd
10-11-2007, 9:41 PM
A false domestic voilence claim is a crime in itself. Purjury, possibly Malicious Procution, and a whole host of others. It is also a civil tort. Sue her silly; don't go small claims. Get an RO on her.

Ravenslair
10-11-2007, 9:41 PM
Glad to hear it all worked out OK in the end. If I were you, I would conduct any and all child exchanges (if they ever become unsupervised) at your local PD. All you have to do is call the PD and tell them you are going to do a custody exchange in their lobby.

Your ex sounds like those that cry wolf. Better to always have a witness around. If you cannot do it at the PD, have a witness in your vehicle videotaping the entire exchange. You really need to protect yourself and your children. If the wife continues to be a drug user, try and get full custody. There is nothing worse than a parent that drags their kids through their useless life.

JALLEN
10-11-2007, 9:54 PM
A false domestic voilence claim is a crime in itself. Purjury, possibly Malicious Procution, and a whole host of others. It is also a civil tort. Sue her silly; don't go small claims. Get an RO on her.

If she made a false report to law enforcement maybe, but the denial of a TRO is not a ruling that her application and statement in support was a false report. It's not binary, the winner is true and the loser is false. Lack of evidence, insufficient grounds, all sorts of considerations go into the decision to geny. It may have been purely technical... she didn't use the right words, who knows??

glockman19
10-11-2007, 10:21 PM
I'm never getting married. Sheez.
You don't need to be married for your live-in to file a bogus TRO. All you have to do is live together.

M. Sage
10-11-2007, 10:22 PM
So you were deprived of property and liberty without due process? Wow.. it's all gone downhill, hasn't it?

Whitesmoke
10-12-2007, 8:57 AM
A false domestic voilence claim is a crime in itself. Purjury, possibly Malicious Procution, and a whole host of others. It is also a civil tort. Sue her silly; don't go small claims. Get an RO on her.


Thats the next step......:yes:

Whitesmoke
10-12-2007, 8:57 AM
You don't need to be married for your live-in to file a bogus TRO. All you have to do is live together.


You don't even have to have lived together...only have dated.

Pappy91W
10-12-2007, 9:41 AM
I'm never getting married. Sheez.

You don't even have to get married. All you have to do to fall under "domestic" violence is stick your pickle in her ONCE, then, she can play the Domestic violence card on you in the future at her whim.

Pie can cost you far more than anyone could have ever imagined.

metalhead357
10-12-2007, 5:47 PM
As far as I know for a TRO...it doesn't have to even be a true relationship in the couple's sense. Anyone can get a TRO on anyone that they have truly negative contact with............. but 100% on the Domestic aspects.....:cool:

Just say it with me T---R---O has Got to Go-Go_GO!

five.five-six
10-12-2007, 9:45 PM
Well...The actual TRO said I had 2 choices...turn firearms over to LE or SELL them to a FFL.

But I already beat the RO...so the Temporary is gone. And she never filed a police report....she just walked in the court house and filled out the short form with a pen and my gun rights were temporarily gone along with my CCW, etc.

Sueing her is a waste of time though....she has nothing and has no money. She lives on $800 a month from Social Security Disability because she's Bipolar.

Once you have been served, legally, inter family transfer is off the table. It is the cops or an ffl.. There is some ambiguity in the law as to whether or not the ffl can be a 03 :) so there is an out. Also this part of the law is NEVER enforced. I have a permanent 3 year restraining injunction against a man who has 2 guns, but no one will do anything about it.. And he is a deranged drug addict / dealer

pnkssbtz
10-12-2007, 9:51 PM
Can you sue in small claims for the cost of the DROS of your guns to and from another party for a TRO that is declined?

metalhead357
10-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Can you sue in small claims for the cost of the DROS of your guns to and from another party for a TRO that is declined?


you could try....for most though a couple of DROS fees would be small compared to the time in court, court fees, day(s) of work....etc. But there IS something resembling a *must* once you've exceeded X amount of dollars that you should at least TRY this route--at least in my meager opinion.

Question is-- who do you sue? If the TRO requester is already a turd and aint got no money? The state?

Talk about needing a new law-- DROS should be entirely WAIVED in cases like these.............. or a ONE TIME simple restoration fee for ALL guns for like $5.00

Whitesmoke
10-13-2007, 8:27 AM
Once you have been served, legally, inter family transfer is off the table. It is the cops or an ffl.. There is some ambiguity in the law as to whether or not the ffl can be a 03 :) so there is an out. Also this part of the law is NEVER enforced. I have a permanent 3 year restraining injunction against a man who has 2 guns, but no one will do anything about it.. And he is a deranged drug addict / dealer

I've read your story....and I feel for you.

I believe you are right....I believe it is supposed to be to a FFL or LE. But I decided to take my chances and PPT them through a FFL. At least I could show that I made an effort.....and that I had paperwork from an FFL saying I got rid of them. I don't believe most of the Judges really understand the difference between what I did and what the law calls for.

The court and the judge never even saw or asked about my guns or FFL paperwork.

Whitesmoke
10-13-2007, 8:29 AM
Question is-- who do you sue? If the TRO requester is already a turd and aint got no money? The state?

Talk about needing a new law-- DROS should be entirely WAIVED in cases like these.............. or a ONE TIME simple restoration fee for ALL guns for like $5.00


Yeah....she has no money...so suing is kinda futile. other than to discourage her in the future.

Knauga
10-13-2007, 11:28 AM
Or make her angry and more creative about how she screws with you.

Whitesmoke
10-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Or make her angry and more creative about how she screws with you.


yep...thats true too.