View Full Version : Question regarding AB1471...

10-10-2007, 6:47 PM
I was thinking about it earlier today, and god forbid this crap actually becomes law,but if it did:

Would you then have to transfer each serialized part via ffl??

What happens if you have to replace a serialized part?

Who's to say you dont have a spare on hand already?

What are they gonna do? Police your brass and look for unserialized cases?

10-10-2007, 6:59 PM
I'm wondering where you will find a gun manufacturer who will SELL you the serialized parts you are mentioning here, much less a complete CA-compliant handgun. Anybody know of any Companies that have re-tooled their plants to sell this stuff?
If this law passes, you will have very few, if any choices to make. The gun manufacturers will be discouraged from selling handguns in California, which is exactly what AB 1471 is all about.

10-10-2007, 7:01 PM
Well, if it becomes law, I want my first serialized number to be 666 :reddevil:

10-10-2007, 7:03 PM
Trust me, I get the intent of this POS legislation. These questions are more rhetorical than anything else, becuase I can imagine that manufacturers would simply stop selling here. I wouldnt blame them one bit.

10-10-2007, 7:23 PM
I've heard there are other eastern States that already have these laws and handguns are being sold there, but I haven't been able to identify them. I wish somebody would enlighten us.

10-10-2007, 8:16 PM
What happens if you have to replace a serialized part?

Send the whole handgun into the manufacturer for a new part. And lets not forget that the technology isn't anywhere close to perfect and its supposed to be FUBAR at around 2,500 rounds.

10-10-2007, 8:24 PM
Send the whole handgun into the manufacturer for a new part. And lets not forget that the technology isn't anywhere close to perfect and its supposed to be FUBAR at around 2,500 rounds.
So on one of my .22 pistols, it would be no good after 3-4 shooting trips:p

10-10-2007, 8:46 PM
Governor Schwarzenegger has not signed the bill yet. We need a VETO.

Please call and vote in opposition of AB 1471

Phone: 916-445-2841
press 1 - For english
Press 2 - To voice opinion on an Assembly bill
press 1 - Assembly bill 1471 Firearm microstamping
Press 2 - If you Oppose

Thank You

10-11-2007, 4:48 PM
I read somewhere, and now I'll have to go try to find it again, that pretty much all of the major manufacturers have indicated that they won't tool up for microstamping technology so, presumptively if the bill is signed, after the date of effectivity there would be no new semi-autos for the approved roster.

I wonder if the exemption for peace officers and agencies to purchase non-rostered handguns would extend past any invocation of microstamping? I presume it would, but that policy (not law) seemingly would, by defnition, put "unsafe handguns" into the hands of LEOs... which could make a dandy argument in a court case somewhere in the real world, but not here in Oz.

Maryland is, I am pretty certain, doing "ballistic fingerprinting". It is, naturally, a huge and expensive failure. I don't know that any jurisdiction has mandated microstamping yet and a quick search doesn't turn any up.

10-11-2007, 4:55 PM
YES manufacturers will NOT change to accomodate NEW guns we'll be stuck with what's on the list.

YES, LEO is exempt and will still be ble to buy any gun they want. Tht's where I think the legislation stinks. They are civilians when off duty and many LEO I've met and have shot with aren't any more proficient or careful than I am.

As a matter of fact I shot next to three LASD deputies and their patterns with duty weapons looked like shot gun patterns. no better than 9" @ 7 yards. NOT very good shooting.

10-11-2007, 5:05 PM
Right now there are about 1,000 guns on the "approved" list. Obviously the purpose of this law is to knock that number down, with the target being zero. I imagine if this passes, a handful of mass-selling guns will be retooled and available here. And revolvers.

10-11-2007, 5:08 PM
Found this... (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-25-2007/0004614963&EDATE=)

"Compelling the use of this unreliable sole-sourced technology will
dramatically reduce the product selection available to law-abiding
consumers in California," said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF senior vice
president and general counsel. "Many manufacturers will choose to abandon
the California market rather than incur substantial costs associated with
complying with microstamping legislation, which would include purchasing
(at monopolistic prices) very expensive equipment and patented technology
and completely redesigning their manufacturing processes, plant and

While it is not any particular manufacturer, it is the manufacturer's mouthpiece / lobbyist. If they say the manufacturers aren't going to re-tool then I believe them.

I'm a former LEO. I've never been imbued with the mindset that as a LEO I was among "God's Chosen Few", a phrase that was used extensively in my academy class a couple of decades back. What is it, as a LEO, that makes me any better than any law abiding citizen? I've never understood that. And it seems to me that in Silveira there was a ruling that otherwise honorably retired LEOs weren't anything special as concerned so called "assault weapons". So why should LEO's be any different when it comes to the roster?

10-11-2007, 5:19 PM
It seems like Arnold only has a few days to veto this thing if he's going to do it. Am I right?

10-11-2007, 5:43 PM
Yes, he has until the 14th to sign or veto it. Otherwise, if he takes no action, it will become law. Maryland IS the state that is doing the Ballistic Fingerprinting. That system has only assisted in getting a single conviction. Without that system, the conviction still would have happened. This system is so expensive and has generated so little in the way of results that the MSP is calling for it to be dismantled.

Unlike the microprinting bill, this only requires that 2 shots be fired, the brass from those shots be collected and then sent in to the lab when the firearm is first sold. The lab images the brass at that time. That system is NOT dependent upon special tooling or any modifications to any manufacturing tooling. It's all on the lab side and depends only on the brass being captured and put with the correct pistol that fired that brass.

10-11-2007, 6:00 PM
The right way to do all this is with isotopic labeling of ammo components: bullets, powder, primers and brass. If you pick the right isotopes, you could easily encode 16 bits (or more) of info in all those components, giving 65,000 unique identifiers. That wouldn't identify bullets individually but it could identify batches individually, and that's enough to track to the store where the ammo was sold.

Doing this would make no difference in the final price of the ammo and it wouldn't require retooling of factors or supply chains.

It wouldn't allow individual traceability of bullets or ammo but it would give enough information to help prosecutors prove things like the type of ammo and batch, which would be a real help in cases.

It would also let us track environmental impact of lead.

Something like this could and should be done voluntarily by the major manufacturers. No legislation would be needed, except maybe some liability protection for them if they do this.

Isotopic labeling would be impossible to remove, and difficult to tamper with. It's not fool-proof; someone would always be able to find non-labeled stuff somewhere. But none of these labeling systems are fool-proof, and obviously the microstamping stuff is so easy to defeat it's worthless.

10-11-2007, 9:06 PM
It would be too much to hope for, if this absurd bill becomes law, that the manufacturers that refuse to tool up to be able to sell CA legal weapons would do like Ronnie Barratt and tell CA LE to jump in the lake when they want to buy guns and service. I understand that Barratt refused to service any of his .50 BMG guns already sold, and refused to sell any more to CA LE.

I wonder what would happen if they sent out an RFP and nobody offered to sell any guns? Nobody, nadda, zippo. The manufacturers forbade their dealers from selling as well. Then what?

Maybe the police, sheriffs and highway patrol could borrow some sling shots from the TJ police department while the Legislature got it sorted out.