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View Full Version : Brady Center hit piece on Trader Sports in San Leandro


Steyr_223
10-08-2007, 10:25 PM
Tony should post a response on his page..Why he does not get into the wholesale ammo business, I never know..

http://www.tradersports.com/

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/reports/trading-in-death.pdf

Trader Jack
10-08-2007, 10:31 PM
[QUOTE=Steyr_223;784812]Tony should post a response on his page..Why he does not get into the wholesale ammo business, I never know..

This is old news. Traders is finished and no great loss at that.:chris:

aklon
10-09-2007, 9:05 AM
[QUOTE=Trader Jack;784824This is old news. Traders is finished and no great loss at that.:chris:[/QUOTE]


First off, pal: Trader's is not out of business, and is still selling everything they had before - just no guns. You want ammo? Try Trader's ...

Second: so you take a delight when one of the shops is closed? What's wrong with you? Didn't get a price you like so now you kick a dog with a broken back just out of glee?

Maybe you should conside that no matter what your *personal* feelings, when the government closes down a shop - any shop - you have that much less freedom. But, since you have a vendetta to settle, you could care less, right?

My two cents: don;t like it? Tough: find another gun store to crap on.

1911_sfca
10-09-2007, 10:33 AM
I've gotta agree with Trader Jack.


Second: so you take a delight when one of the shops is closed? What's wrong with you? Didn't get a price you like so now you kick a dog with a broken back just out of glee?

Maybe you should conside that no matter what your *personal* feelings, when the government closes down a shop - any shop - you have that much less freedom. But, since you have a vendetta to settle, you could care less, right?

Chill out tough guy. It obviously was his personal opinion, and for that matter, it's mine too. The guys in that place are jerks and I never want to go back there, regardless of whether they sell guns. Aside from social graces or lack thereof, when the government closes down a shop for breaking the law, I don't feel particularly bad for the owners nor that I am losing any freedom. In fact, with so many dirty guns traced back to Traders, I feel more freedom.. freedom to walk down the street with a little bit less fear that I am going to be shot by some gun that was bought in a straw purchase at Trader's.

And that, "pal", is going to be a common sentiment. I like having gun shops in the Bay Area to choose from. But shops like Traders? Good riddance.

Glock22Fan
10-09-2007, 10:52 AM
For my 2 cents, if the accusations from the Brady center are untrue, fight them; if they are true, then it's good to shut down such dealers. Bad apples cannot be good for any of us.

I suspect that (from the amount of detail) that the Brady center have, on this occasion, even if presented in a biased manner, got it more or less right.

CCWFacts
10-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Yes, if this shop was selling guns out the back door (which I believe it was) they should be shut down. I don't think this whole thing was over a few missing forms from 20 years ago.

The NRA should co-opt this whole Brady Campaign thing about rogue gun dealers. There are more of them than we acknowledge and they are a big problem for us.

QuarterBoreGunner
10-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Every one in the business in the 90's (me included) knew that Tony had some... questionable business practices. It was only a matter of time before they shut him down.
I'm sorry to see one less gun store in the Bay Area, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over this particular one.

cadurand
10-09-2007, 12:26 PM
I used to frequent Traders when I lived on that side of the bay. I purchased 3 pistols from them in my lifetime.

For two of those transactions the guy behind the counter had so much trouble filling out the paperwork I was expecting a call to come back and fill it all out again. That never happened but it was still my experience they were bad with the paperwork. I would bet this caused a lot of their problems later with the inventory disrepancies. They had a ton of guys working that counter and they all seemed to do their own thing.

Decent prices, good selection. That was my experience. If they were selling guns out the backdoor that's bad.

AKman
10-09-2007, 1:40 PM
I read the Brady Center brief and have to agree that they should have been shut down long ago. There is no excuse for ignorance and/or incompetence when it comes to fulfilling your obligations as a FFL. I suspect that some of the violations were minor paperwork errors, but the large number of violations, the seriousness of some of the violations and the duration of violations clearly indicates more than mere incompetence. It would appear that a lot of dirtbags illegally obtained firearms because of Trader Sports. Tracing 447crime guns to Trader Sports in one year gives all honest gun owners a bad name, even those OLL guys that push to the edge of the envelope.

-hanko
10-09-2007, 2:37 PM
First off, pal: Trader's is not out of business, and is still selling everything they had before - just no guns. You want ammo? Try Trader's ...

Second: so you take a delight when one of the shops is closed? What's wrong with you? Didn't get a price you like so now you kick a dog with a broken back just out of glee?

Maybe you should conside that no matter what your *personal* feelings, when the government closes down a shop - any shop - you have that much less freedom. But, since you have a vendetta to settle, you could care less, right?

My two cents: don;t like it? Tough: find another gun store to crap on.
Trader's ammo prices are out of line v. the web and even other local stores...not sure trader's is doing as well as before if they can't sell guns;)

No one takes delight in losing a prk gunstore, quite the opposite feeling, in fact: we need gun stores more now than in the past.

If the government closed the shop for the improper reason(s), I'd assume Traders would fight the closing...their silence is deafening:confused:

I know, Pal, it's sometimes hard to accept bad news; if traders was dealing under the table/out the back door, they deserved to lose their license...I face the same requirements with mine.

thanks for posting to the forum

-hanko

xenophobe
10-09-2007, 7:12 PM
Man, you "gunners" are eating up the Brady Center propaganda. You call yourselves shooting enthusiasts? Makes me want to vomit.

Traders was a cool shop with some nice guns. I bought quite a bit from there and it's unfortunate that they can't sell guns anymore.

Some people on this forum really make me sick of even participating here anymore.

Crazed_SS
10-09-2007, 7:17 PM
Man, you "gunners" are eating up the Brady Center propaganda. You call yourselves shooting enthusiasts? Makes me want to vomit.

Traders was a cool shop with some nice guns. I bought quite a bit from there and it's unfortunate that they can't sell guns anymore.

Some people on this forum really make me sick of even participating here anymore.

You have to be objective sometimes.. Just because someone is a FFL, owns guns, has a gun shop, etc does not mean they're on the up and up. In every business there are people who will try to bend/break rules to increase their bottom own bottom line. I never been to Traders and it may have very well been a good store, but if they were breaking the law in the manner described then they got what was coming to then.

Rogue dealers hurt all of us. I dont see any reason to support them. It's hard to maintain the high ground and claim law-abiding gun owners/dealers arent the problem if some FFL is selling guns to bad guys out the back door.

xenophobe
10-09-2007, 7:20 PM
You have to be objective sometimes.. Just because someone is a FFL, owns guns, has a gun shop, etc does not mean they're on the up and up. In every business there are people who will try to bend/break rules to increase their bottom own bottom line. I never been to Traders and it may have very well been a good store, but if they were breaking the law in the manner described then they got what was coming to then.

Proof?

Yes, lick up that Brady spooge and regurgitate it to me like it's legitimate.

If any such things happened, Traders would be closed for good and someone would be in jail.

Crazed_SS
10-09-2007, 7:25 PM
I can only form an opinion based on the information provided. It's not just the Brady's, but if you look back on page 1, there's members here saying they were shady. If you have any other info disputing the claims that Trader's was in the wrong, I'd be interested in reading that too.

CCWFacts
10-09-2007, 7:54 PM
Proof?

Yes, lick up that Brady spooge and regurgitate it to me like it's legitimate.

If any such things happened, Traders would be closed for good and someone would be in jail.

That could still happen. If it doesn't happen, there will never be "proof", but I am convinced (from various source of information) that they were in fact selling guns out the back door. Apparently QuarterBoreGunner has heard the same thing "around the campfire". That makes me even more convinced.

And dealers selling out the back door do more harm to us than the Brady Campaign itself ever could.

I'm not licking up Brady Campaign propaganda; I'm basing my belief a) on sources and b) on the fact that the BATFE did this and c) the fact that Trader's isn't trying to fight it. The BATFE, whatever you may think of them, is not in the habit of closing down stores based on trivial paperwork violations.

I believe that this store should be out of business entirely. If they were selling out the back door (which I believe they were), them losing their FFL wouldn't necessarily put an end to "under the counter" transactions.

And yes, I have bought ammo etc there before. I don't like to see a good store going out of business, but this is not a good store.

bwiese
10-09-2007, 8:38 PM
There's only so much you can fight BATF. Once a certain point is reached with violations (i.e, can't resolve because you lost a box of 4473s) those can't be cured and it leaves "uncurable issues" that kill renewal of license.

Trader's had problems because they were a distributor as well as a dealer and inventory btwn the two was sloppy. They were in biz 30+ years when standards (or rather, enforcement thereof) were looser and then enforcement changed. Boxes of 4473s were lost.

I think Trader's actually got sued sometime back for racism for supposedly not selling guns because of ethnicity/dress/appearance ("do rags", etc.).

Given its proximity to West Oakland, you sometimes can't win.

I've done biz w/Trader's since very late 80s. I never saw anything suspicious in the numerous times I was there (i.e, sometimes once or more a month). I saw some questionable folk there and elaborate explanations were given as to Fed/CA gun laws- the response was to mutter 'uh-huh' and walk out.

Could a bum employee have sold something out the back door? Perhaps. Is Tony C too smart to do that for a few bucks short-term profit and risk a business? Yep. Were they perhaps a bit casual about storing 4473s and keeping track of them? Likely.

Dontcha think some poor examination of incoming gun manifest off UPS truck, with a few hiked off the UPS truck, might have resulted in inventory differences? Tony could very well be taking arrows for UPS 'steal a gun' policies of unsecured trucks.

Also remember that BATF regards a trivial error (leaving 'County" off the "Santa Clara", for example) on a 4473 as an incomplete and therefore invalid form - and a transfer stemming from this as a noncompliant transfer, and which can't be 'fixed'. Accumulate a few of these and your FFL is toast: dozens of mom & pop gunshops, sole proprietors in good areas with low volumes and no 'crime guns' sold, have closed shop due to this.

Steyr_223
10-09-2007, 9:00 PM
I grew up in Oakland during the 1970's and my dad use to take me there to get ammo. We would shoot his M1 Carbine, S&W Model 12 and my Marlin model 60 at Chabot or the Optimist club afterwards..I remember Tony C even back then..In 1982, I got my AR from them with my first paycheck after I turned 18..Tony C did the paper work.

Right before Roberti-Roos, I was there with my friend buying soon to be ban guns..Remember seen extras from "Colors" doing group buys of AKs, ARs and other "AW" type rifles.. Crazy times..

From my experience they were on the level. They always did my paper work correctly. Their service level did drop during busy, peek times..Tony C's son, the Filipino guy, the older short guy (Jack?) with the glasses and the troll rocker guy were always cool.

Got lots of great deals on ammo and firearms over the years..They had some great sales. I always looked forward to the Thursday sports sections in the Oakland Tribune and the Chronicle for the Traders ad..

Good times..

:)


Any chance a new owner can be found to take over and get a new FFL?

kalibear
10-09-2007, 9:28 PM
Please lets not continue beating a dead horse

Now back to your regular scheduled programming...