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Steyr_223
10-08-2007, 10:08 PM
Latest Brady Center hatchet job..Know your enemies..What a load of poo..

http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/no-gun-left-behind.pdf

No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby's Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools

No Gun Left Behind http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/images/reports/no-gun-left-behind-cover.jpgGuns in colleges and schools? Armed students? Armed teachers? That is the response of the gun lobby to the horrible massacre at Virginia Tech. Let's give everyone a gun and start the crossfire. The gun lobby is pushing legislation modeled after a law in Utah that prohibits colleges and universities from barring possession or use of firearms on campus. As a result of the law, 18-year-old kids could carry handguns to class, and kids even younger than 18 could possess AK-47 assault rifles with high-capacity magazines on campus. The gun lobby also wants to arm K-12 teachers.

The Brady Center's new report: No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby's Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools blows the whistle on the gun lobby's strategy and explains how, far from saving lives, it would dramatically increase gun violence risks to college students and trample on academic freedom. Drugs and alcohol use, and suicide and mental health issues all peak for people 18-24. Let's not add guns into that volatile mix. Despite the massacre at Virginia Tech, college campuses are safer than the communities that surround them, precisely because those institutions have barred or tightly controlled firearms. We need to support those institutions, not strip them of the ability to control firearms on campus. Arming teachers is also a bad idea. Do we really want teachers shooting at students? Even police officers hit their targets less than 20% of the time.

Charliegone
10-08-2007, 10:11 PM
They do know that guns were in college's and schools right?

ldivinag
10-08-2007, 10:17 PM
i have a scan off a page from an old yearbook from cal state hayward from the 60s...

one of the clubs? rifle and pistol shooting club.

pix is on my work computer so will post later...

Patriot
10-08-2007, 10:21 PM
I can think of another protective device that can be misused with potentially life-threatening consequences. Guess students shouldn't be allowed to have those at school either :eek:

762cavalier
10-08-2007, 10:26 PM
As a result of the law, 18-year-old kids could carry handguns to class, and kids even younger than 18 could possess AK-47 assault rifles with high-capacity magazines on campus.

Um K Hard for an 18 yr old to get a CCW for a handgun since you have to be 21 to buy them ( I know, your parents can give you one, but I don't think you will be issued a ccw) and anyone under 18 is not allowed to purchase firearms at all. That is quite a stretch they're making there.:rolleyes:

N6ATF
10-08-2007, 10:34 PM
AK-47's... right...

FreedomIsNotFree
10-08-2007, 11:21 PM
As a result of the law, 18-year-old kids could carry handguns to class, and kids even younger than 18 could possess AK-47 assault rifles with high-capacity magazines on campus.

As if they would be ok with AK's on campus as long as they dont have high-capacity magazines...haha.

Notice how they load the sentence with pleas to the morality of the ignorant? 18 year olds are by definition adults....not kids. By law, fully responsible and accountable for their own behavior and actions.

Also, where do they get this crap about kids younger than 18 showing up with AK's with high cap mags?....haha.

This would be comedic if they weren't serious.

PanzerAce
10-09-2007, 12:15 AM
I love how they have a huge problem with guns on campus, but their picture seems to endorse underage drinking as perfectly ok.

Also, re: LEO hitting the target less than 20% of the time: I DON'T miss my target, maybe they should disarm the LEO and arm the students that already know how to shoot *rolls eyes*

DedEye
10-09-2007, 2:01 AM
This just makes me want to cry.

Why couldn't MY dorm room have had an AR next to the bed :D?

Seriously though, do they realize it isn't some evil "gun lobby" pushing the guns into the schools, but students and faculty that are themselves currently in school pushing for this right?

aileron
10-09-2007, 6:26 AM
studying with an AR next to the laptop, sounds like fun.

Wulf
10-09-2007, 6:27 AM
If that's the best idea Brady has, they're done. That's extremely week cheese.

Glock22Fan
10-09-2007, 8:24 AM
If that's the best idea Brady has, they're done. That's extremely week cheese.

Weak or not, it will be accepted without question by the likes of some of my in-laws.

BillCA
10-09-2007, 9:14 AM
No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby's Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools

No Gun Left Behind
Guns in colleges and schools? Armed students? Armed teachers? That is the response of the gun lobby to the horrible massacre at Virginia Tech. Let's give everyone a gun and start the crossfire. The gun lobby is pushing legislation modeled after a law in Utah that prohibits colleges and universities from barring possession or use of firearms on campus.

They got it wrong, deliberately. It's not about giving everyone a gun. It's about honoring CCW permits that are valid statewide.


As a result of the law, 18-year-old kids could carry handguns to class, and kids even younger than 18 could possess AK-47 assault rifles with high-capacity magazines on campus. The gun lobby also wants to arm K-12 teachers.

Brady misrepresents the issue by throwing the AK-47 red herring into the mix to distract attention from the fact that 18 year olds cannot purchase handguns. And in most areas, you have to be 21 to be issued a CCW permit.


The Brady Center's new report: No Gun Left Behind: The Gun Lobby's Campaign to Push Guns Into Colleges and Schools blows the whistle on the gun lobby's strategy and explains how, far from saving lives, it would dramatically increase gun violence risks to college students and trample on academic freedom.


Exactly how would it trample academic freedom? I'm sure they'll claim it would stifle free exchanges of ideas because some student might "get mad and go off on a shooting spree", yet we have not seen this with the normal population of CCW permit holders, some of whom are 21-24 years old.


Drugs and alcohol use, and suicide and mental health issues all peak for people 18-24. Let's not add guns into that volatile mix. Despite the massacre at Virginia Tech, college campuses are safer than the communities that surround them, precisely because those institutions have barred or tightly controlled firearms.

And almost HALF of female college students report they have been the victim of unwanted sexual advances or rape. About 20% of these are forcible rape that occurs on campus or in campus housing.

Let's not forget that a government study found that kids and guns DO mix. Kids who shoot regularly or own their own gun are LESS likely to be involved in crimes. A 21 year old student with a CCW is more likely to secure his gun in a gun vault when he goes to a party than someone who has no permit to risk.


We need to support those institutions, not strip them of the ability to control firearms on campus. Arming teachers is also a bad idea. Do we really want teachers shooting at students? Even police officers hit their targets less than 20% of the time.

If the Brady's concern is about a teacher illegally shooting students, why would we allow such an unstable personality to be a teacher in the first place? Aren't teachers trained to deal with snooty, clownish students? Aren't they trained to deal with disruptive students?

The sad fact is that police officers are not very well trained in the actual use of firearms. Police are also engaged in different situations than civilians who are usually closer to their assailants. And even if a teach were to make hits with 20% of the shots, isn't that better than letting a killer run amok unchallenged to kill large numbers of students?

WolfMansDad
10-09-2007, 9:14 AM
AK-47's... right...

Hee hee... When I was in ROTC in college, the department had a collection of combloc stuff, including AKs and RPGs, in order to familiarize the cadets with the enemy's weapons. One day in class, the Major brought them all out for us to play with. I got to take the AK apart and examine the full-auto sear. And yes, it did have its "high-capacity" magazine with it. The RPG was REALLY basic, just about the simplest projectile weapon I have ever handled.

All this on a college campus, in an ordinary classroom.

We had a range on campus, too, and I was on the rifle team. I practiced three or four times a week, and there were guys who would use the range for casual pistol practice as well. One guy was very good. I don't know where they kept their handguns, but it wasn't in the armory.

WolfMansDad
10-09-2007, 9:17 AM
Even police officers hit their targets less than 20% of the time.

So give 'em more than five bullets!

ldivinag
10-09-2007, 11:49 AM
here's the PDF scan from the cal state hayward yearbook from the 60s.

note the caption of the pix:

http://www.filevenue.com/v/6526273/csuh_rifle_pistol.pdf.html

CCWFacts
10-09-2007, 12:02 PM
"If everyone had a gun"

That's one of their biggest pieces of BS. No one in the NRA is advocating that everyone have a gun. We (gun rights activists) are advocating CCW issuance and acceptance of CCWs on campuses. CCW issuance rates are in the low single percentage points (1% or so). 1% is a lot different from "everyone". Only a very small number of gun owners want the responsibility and burden of carrying a gun for defensive use. It's not for everyone.

dawson8r
10-09-2007, 11:10 PM
So how many of you are like me:

(1) some days I have a bad day at work and get mad.
(2) some days I get mad at my wife.
(3) some days I get mad at my kids.
(4) some days I get mad at my neighbor.
(5) once in a while all of these happen on the same day. It's called "having a bad day".

IMHO, I think I have lots of guns (but I'm not done collecting yet). But I don't load them all up and go around killing people just because I'm having a bad day. These Brady Bunch a-holes either sincerely think anybody with a gun is on the verge of snapping or they're just another group of anti-gun propagandists. Its the latter I think. Guess they never heard the quote that goes something like this: "60 million gun owners didn't kill anybody today".

derek@thepackingrat.net
10-09-2007, 11:15 PM
my room looks like that...

... minus the bottles =)

N6ATF
10-10-2007, 12:51 AM
Hee hee... When I was in ROTC in college, the department had a collection of combloc stuff, including AKs and RPGs, in order to familiarize the cadets with the enemy's weapons. One day in class, the Major brought them all out for us to play with. I got to take the AK apart and examine the full-auto sear. And yes, it did have its "high-capacity" magazine with it. The RPG was REALLY basic, just about the simplest projectile weapon I have ever handled.

All this on a college campus, in an ordinary classroom.

We had a range on campus, too, and I was on the rifle team. I practiced three or four times a week, and there were guys who would use the range for casual pistol practice as well. One guy was very good. I don't know where they kept their handguns, but it wasn't in the armory.

Sounds like controlled environments, not the quad, which the Bradys apparently want us to believe will start looking like Al Queda youth training camps.

kids even younger than 18 could possess AK-47 assault rifles with high-capacity magazines on campus

gazzavc
10-10-2007, 8:11 AM
So how many of you are like me:

(1) some days I have a bad day at work and get mad.
(2) some days I get mad at my wife.
(3) some days I get mad at my kids.
(4) some days I get mad at my neighbor.
(5) once in a while all of these happen on the same day. It's called "having a bad day".



We all have them, thats why we go "down the pub", chat with our mates, get home, ask where the dinner is and get told "its in the dog".

Life. Its 6/4 against.

BillCA
10-10-2007, 8:51 AM
So how many of you are like me:

(1) some days I have a bad day at work and get mad.
(2) some days I get mad at my wife.
(3) some days I get mad at my kids.
(4) some days I get mad at my neighbor.
(5) once in a while all of these happen on the same day. It's called "having a bad day".

IMHO, I think I have lots of guns (but I'm not done collecting yet). But I don't load them all up and go around killing people just because I'm having a bad day. These Brady Bunch a-holes either sincerely think anybody with a gun is on the verge of snapping or they're just another group of anti-gun propagandists. Its the latter I think. Guess they never heard the quote that goes something like this: "60 million gun owners didn't kill anybody today".

It's called projection.

Basically, if you think you'd be angry enough to shoot someone if you had a gun with you, then that feeling is "projected" onto the population at large. It's a sort of self-justification for the anger, much like "if I feel this way, most other people would do the same thing."

The Brady bunch builds its ranks with emotional appeals so they attract people prone to be very emotional about things. Thus it's easy for them to envision getting very irate over some minor incident (a fender bender) to the point of using violence against another person. They believe because they get that intensely angry over a dinged fender or a "stolen" parking place everyone else does too. So if they feel they'd shoot someone over a parking space, then, by God, no one should be able to carry a gun...just in case.

I've owned guns for over 30 years. In that time, I've had arguments and spats with spouses, girlfriends, friends, neighbors and relatives. I've also encountered rude drivers, reckless drivers, hostile drivers and inattentive drivers. Regardless of being armed or not, it hardly enters my mind to actually reach for a gun to do bodily harm to someone emulating a gene-tampered turkey.

tombinghamthegreat
10-10-2007, 10:55 AM
They do know that guns were in college's and schools right?

Now a days, high schoolers are expelled for bringing pepper spray, small pocket knives or stun guns. But there is a rapist near the school who already raped 2 kids within a week and they can't find him. Along with a bomb scare. I am not suggesting my 17 year old sister should be carrying a handgun around, but she should be able to have some sort of ability to defend herself without getting in expelled for self defense(since self defense is against the rules).

BaronW
10-10-2007, 11:14 AM
When I was in high school, defending yourself at all in a fight would get you suspended, period. At least, that was the policy. I never got in a fight, so I never got to test it. My dad told me that if they insisted on suspending me for defending myself then it would be time to press assault charges and to let the police convince me to drop them if the school backed down. (And to NEVER back down once I mentioned the police, otherwise it's blackmail/extortion)

The basic mindset these people have is that you have no right to use force or violence under any circumstances, even to defend against great bodily harm.

artherd
10-10-2007, 11:57 AM
I got to test a policy like that in the 2nd grade, against a 6th grader who thought it would be 'fun' to grab my broken leg and let me hop around to catch up and try not to crack my skull on concrete. I kicked him in the temple with my one good leg and knocked him unconsious.

Principle came out, looked at 80 lb kid with broken leg, and looked at 120lb fattie a full head taller than me fully unconsious. Came right over and shook my hand infront of everyone and said "Good job son".

N6ATF
10-10-2007, 12:15 PM
Brilliant!

Stormfeather
10-10-2007, 1:51 PM
I got to test a policy like that in the 2nd grade, against a 6th grader who thought it would be 'fun' to grab my broken leg and let me hop around to catch up and try not to crack my skull on concrete. I kicked him in the temple with my one good leg and knocked him unconsious.

Principle came out, looked at 80 lb kid with broken leg, and looked at 120lb fattie a full head taller than me fully unconsious. Came right over and shook my hand infront of everyone and said "Good job son".

You really didnt knock me out. . . you just stunned me. . . . . ;)


Seriously though, thats the mindset we need to bring back, kick his/her butt, and let the principal sort it out.

Subvertz
10-10-2007, 2:22 PM
I am the only one who thinks students would respect armed teachers more?

Steyr_223
10-10-2007, 4:45 PM
"I am the only one who thinks students would respect armed teachers more?"

Respect and Fear are different..I fear an armed thug, terrorist or enemy combatant..I respect friends, family, police officers and my fellow Calgunners..

Subvertz
10-10-2007, 5:41 PM
Respect and Fear are different..I fear an armed thug, terrorist or enemy combatant..I respect friends, family, police officers and my fellow Calgunners..
Any reason there can't be both?

WolfMansDad
10-10-2007, 6:17 PM
...I am not suggesting my 17 year old sister should be carrying a handgun around, ...

Why not? Mine did.

Yeah, this whole "gun" thing does sort of run in the family. ;)

LAK Supply
10-10-2007, 6:59 PM
Imagine that! People who are able to defend themselves when a psycho ignores the law and starts shooting people! :eek:

Their entire premise is built around lack of self-control in common people. It was the same thing with CCW and the Castle Doctrine when they were first introduced respectively. "OMG! There's going to be blood running in the streets!" :eek: Just because they lack self control does not mean the rest of us do.

taloft
10-10-2007, 7:49 PM
Before all the gun control nonsense, students commonly carried a firearm to school in order to hunt on the way home. Where were all the school shootings then? History shows just how full of it the brady campaign is.

N6ATF
10-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Hey, it's an even simpler version of Minority Report.

Want to know if someone is going to commit a crime? See if they want to have YOU unarmed. Go directly to jail.

Let's see how long they keep projecting their own evil thoughts onto others.

Thrillbilly
10-11-2007, 6:08 PM
I know I would not want to leave any of my guns behind ;)

MedSpec65
10-11-2007, 6:31 PM
Before all the gun control nonsense, students commonly carried a firearm to school in order to hunt on the way home. Where were all the school shootings then? History shows just how full of it the brady campaign is.Yeah, what is it with the current political climate? Every major issue is discussed as if it's in a vacuum and "just came up". Is it asking too much of folks to review a little history before coming to a conclusion?