PDA

View Full Version : Can I transfer a complete OLL into CA?


joe4702
10-06-2007, 8:28 PM
Hi folks,

This may be a dumb question, but I've read too many OLL threads and my head is spinning a bit.

I'm interested in ordering a CMMG lower with all the parts already installed, direct from their website.

Can that be transfered through an OLL-friendly FFL, like Royal Loan or Precision Arms (San Diego area) or do I need to buy the stripped lower and parts kits and build it myself?

The prices seem about the same, so it if legal, it would be easier to just buy the completed lower and avoid the hassle of having to build it. But since it seems everyone talks about building their own, I'm guessing there is some legal reason it needs to be done that way.

Thanks for any info.

Joe

Shane916
10-06-2007, 8:30 PM
It would be legal. You would have to check with your FFL first. The built lower would also need a 10 round magazine fixed in place if the pistol grip is installed.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 8:42 PM
It would be legal. You would have to check with your FFL first. The built lower would also need a 10 round magazine fixed in place if the pistol grip is installed.

The 10rd fixed mag for just a lower is moot now.

That was a product of our initial hyper-overcautioness at the beginning of the OLL revolution.

An off-list receiver with various lower parts attached, but with no upper affixed, is simply not a semiauto centerfire rifle.

Actually there's relatively little need to buy a 'stuffed' lower anyway. Parts are easy to assemble in a bare lower - hell, I've built and AR in bed while watching Jay Leno.

want_ar
10-06-2007, 8:45 PM
As long as it is not assembled in violation of the law, you are fine. Simply stated:

-Pinned mag + evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, etc) okay
-No evil features + standard mag release/detachable mag okay

All ARs that you will see outside CA will have evil features + detachable mag, therefore illegal in CA regardless of OLL status. That is why people assemble their own. Distributers like lanworld buy from CMMG and then modify it to make it CA legal. As long as the mag is pinned and it holds no more than 10 rounds, you are fine.

Also remember that you may not pin a mag > 10 rounds regardless of whether you had one before the ban.

oaklander
10-06-2007, 9:02 PM
I don't think this is correct - see Bill's post above. Lowers with PGs and detachable mags are legal IF they are not attached to an upper.

That being said, it's pretty easy to build one. All you need are pliers, a hammer, and a pin punch.

But, to reiterate - do not attach a lower that has a PG and a detachable mag to an upper.

As long as it is not assembled in violation of the law, you are fine. Simply stated:

-Pinned mag + evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, etc) okay
-No evil features + standard mag release/detachable mag okay

All ARs that you will see outside CA will have evil features + detachable mag, therefore illegal in CA regardless of OLL status. That is why people assemble their own. Distributers like lanworld buy from CMMG and then modify it to make it CA legal. As long as the mag is pinned and it holds no more than 10 rounds, you are fine.

Also remember that you may not pin a mag > 10 rounds regardless of whether you had one before the ban.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 9:06 PM
I don't think this is correct - see Bill's post above. Lowers with PGs and detachable mags are legal IF they are not attached to an upper.

Correct. Regardless of parts or attached grips or stocks, lowers are not semiautomatic, not centerfire and not rifles and do not have capability of firing.

Again, the worry about 10rd mags being fixed was initial hyperconservative caution at start of OLL revolution in late 2005/early 2006.

Would that stuffed off-list lower with PG and telestock be legal if a 22LR upper were attached? Of course it would!

want_ar
10-06-2007, 9:18 PM
Correct. Regardless of parts or attached grips or stocks, lowers are not semiautomatic, not centerfire and not rifles and do not have capability of firing.

Again, the worry about 10rd mags being fixed was initial hyperconservative caution at start of OLL revolution in late 2005/early 2006.


Hmm, thanks. I've always remembered it that way. Back in the day, I think both things were thought to be unacceptable. Very likely due to "hyperconservative caution." I remember back in the day everyone was yelling to "NEVER attach the pistol grip to the lower before pinning the mag." That's how I still do my builds.

I draw the curtains, install the lock, stick a 10 round mag in and only then do I remove my foil hat and proceed with installing the stock, PG, upper :p

joe4702
10-07-2007, 5:17 AM
Good info, thanks all. Sounds like the only issue is whether CMMG will ship a completed lower to CA and finding an FFL who will transfer it.

If I do decide to build my own, is it any harder to install a 2-stage trigger vs. the standard trigger?
I have a match upper that I'd like to use with a nice trigger.

tenpercentfirearms
10-07-2007, 6:34 AM
CMMG will not ship a complete lower into California.

I didn't know Bill was advocating this new approach. As a dealer who has had to deal with the DOJ, I don't think it would be worth the hassle to take a risk like that when I can have a fixed magazine kit installed or simply take the offending parts off.

Your main problem from ordering anything out of state is 1) finding a manufacturer or dealer willing to ship any OLL stuff in and 2) finding a dealer in California who is willing to accept it. There are most certainly guys out there who will do it and most of them advertise on this website. Just don't expect to call up a manufacturer and get them to say yes and then call up your local Turners and have them approve it too. You're better off just calling one of the vendors that frequent Calguns and asking them to make it happen for you. Good luck.

SFV_Dealer
10-07-2007, 7:26 AM
Wes is correct!
Most manufacturers and distributors will not ship into California - they don't know about the current case laws & can't keep up to date with California laws. They barely keep up with the very heavy law laden Federal laws on the books - you should ask an FFL to show you just the ATF Federal book that we get every year - lots of regs and rules !!

We are lucky that we have 4 manufacturers (Type 07) who will ship into CA direct so that is why we support them by 2 ways:
1. Keeping prices very low on receiver & rifles by keeping out the 3rd party dealer middleman price hikes that normally get passed onto you the consumer,...
2. Keeping the manufacturer in business by buying from them direct!

So remember what is really going on here in CA - what is happening in the rest of the nation does not apply to CA! We are on our own so support your local dealer who deals with OLL because there aren't very many of us!

bwiese
10-07-2007, 11:54 AM
I didn't know Bill was advocating this new approach. As a dealer who has had to deal with the DOJ, I don't think it would be worth the hassle to take a risk like that when I can have a fixed magazine kit installed or simply take the offending parts off.

Good point, but I'm not really advocating it.

But then I'm not an advocate of complete lowers being purchased when you can easily stuff them with LPKs while in bed.

JALLEN
10-07-2007, 4:31 PM
Actually there's relatively little need to buy a 'stuffed' lower anyway. Parts are easy to assemble in a bare lower - hell, I've built and AR in bed while watching Jay Leno.

If you can believe this, it's actually so easy even a lawyer can do it!

joe4702
10-07-2007, 6:42 PM
Thanks guys. I ended up buying 2 stripped CMMG lowers from CWS at the Del Mar Show today. I snuck in there in between helping out at the NRA Members Council booth. :). Hope they're as easy to build as you you guys say :)

dawson8r
10-07-2007, 9:44 PM
joe4702 - I bought a CMMG 16" super light upper at the Del Mar show today. I've been wanting to build an AR-type rifle for my wife. Bought a lower parts kits, 6-position stock, and Ergo grip too. Put the whole thing together before I finished a single beer. It real is easy. I presented it to her this evening. She thought it felt "really light". Nothing says "I Love You" like giving your wife an AR!

joe4702
10-08-2007, 8:09 PM
Thats cool! And you're lucky to have a wife who is into firearms!