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View Full Version : New to Cali, can hi-caps from 97 come too?


ccwguy
10-06-2007, 5:58 PM
I have an acquaintance who has relocated here from out of state. He has his hi-caps for his G19 from 1997. Can they come into the state?

PLINK
10-06-2007, 6:05 PM
Nope.

He had to have owned them and lived in CA prior to 2000.

ccwguy
10-06-2007, 6:06 PM
Nope.

He had to have owned them and lived in CA prior to 2000.

Yep, I wasn't real sure of the in state pre-ban ownership. Cool. Thanks.

M. Sage
10-06-2007, 6:43 PM
Nope.

He had to have owned them and lived in CA prior to 2000.

IIRC, he has to have owned them and possessed them in CA before 2000.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 6:52 PM
IIRC, he has to have owned them and possessed them in CA before 2000.

Correct. If he did have them in CA before 2000 and resided there, and then subsequently moved out of state, he could reenter CA with them anytime after 2000.

colossians323
10-06-2007, 6:59 PM
I have an acquaintance who has relocated here from out of state. He has his hi-caps for his G19 from 1997. Can they come into the state?

Yes, but if he did not live here prior to the 2000 ban, and is not reentering with them, he should remove the floor plates to sell as parts for all the other Californians that so desperately need to rebuild theirs.

VegasND
10-06-2007, 7:32 PM
Help me out here--I want to make sure I've got what you're saying right. Before I left CA years ago I had some 50 round magazines for my 10-22. I bought them in AZ and took them back to CA with me when I moved back for a while. I still have them.

Are you saying it would be legal for me to bring them back to CA with me when I move back? I want to be completely sure I understand this.

ccwguy
10-06-2007, 7:43 PM
Help me out here--I want to make sure I've got what you're saying right. Before I left CA years ago I had some 50 round magazines for my 10-22. I bought them in AZ and took them back to CA with me when I moved back for a while. I still have them.

Are you saying it would be legal for me to bring them back to CA with me when I move back? I want to be completely sure I understand this.

123

bwiese
10-06-2007, 7:45 PM
Before I left CA years ago I had some 50 round magazines for my 10-22. I bought them in AZ and took them back to CA with me when I moved back for a while. I still have them.

Are you saying it would be legal for me to bring them back to CA with me when I move back? I want to be completely sure I understand this.


OK, so it appears the sequence is this (hard to tell)...
you were, 'way back when', a CA resident;
you then moved to AZ and acquired some hicap mags;
you moved back to CA before 1/1/00 w/hicap mags and established residency again at least for some short time;
you moved out of CA (apparently to NV);


Therefore you can reenter CA with your hicaps. The fact that you had CA residency with mags before 1/1/2000 is key. Residency's an easy thing to prove.

People legally owning hicaps in CA before 1/1/2000 are allowed to go outside and return to CA with these hicaps. There's no specified time duration for your 'trip' outside of CA - 1 day shooting trip to Reno desert, 2 week vacation to Sedona, or a job change that causes you move outta state for a dozen years and then returning to CA.

Here's the Penal Code...

12020(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail
not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
.
.
.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity
magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the
state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state. .


As a general summary, hicap mag 'crimes' are difficult to prosecute against anyone who was a CA resident before 1/1/00 - without the assistance of the person involved - except for obvious situations like blatant importation (i.e., followed home across border from Reno gunshow), or for a gun/mag setup that didn't exist before 1/1/00.

thomasanelson
10-06-2007, 7:48 PM
If your 10/22 is a .22 like mine! Then you are exempt from hi-caps limitations. There are no restrictions on .22 rifles.

What are you talking about? No restrictions on .22 rifles? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

VegasND
10-06-2007, 7:50 PM
So, hi-caps are ok for .22s today? But, any hi-cap magazines I possessed at any time I lived in CA would still be legal upon my return? Thanks for your patience, I really do not want to have legal problems if I must move back.
Last a CA resident in 1982.
Many Thanks--Dean


OK, so it appears the sequence is this (hard to tell)...
you were, 'way back when', a CA resident;
you then moved to AZ and acquired some hicap mags;
you moved back to CA before 1/1/00 w/hicap mags and established residency again at least for some short time;
you moved back to AZ;

blkA4alb
10-06-2007, 7:54 PM
So, hi-caps are ok for .22s today? But, any hi-cap magazines I possessed at any time I lived in CA would still be legal upon my return? Thanks for your patience, I really do not want to have legal problems if I must move back.
Last a CA resident in 1982.
Many Thanks--Dean

No the high capacity ban applies to rimfires as well. Only tube fed rimfires are exempt.

ccwguy
10-06-2007, 8:04 PM
No the high capacity ban applies to rimfires as well. Only tube fed rimfires are exempt.

I have a memo here somewhere from the DOJ which was in direct relation to the 10/22 incident with one of my students. His father sent him to class with a hi-cap for his 10/22. I questioned it to the Dad who is a deputy and was forwarded the exemption info some time later. Give me some time to find it. His leo status was not related to it as far as I recall..

blkA4alb
10-06-2007, 8:07 PM
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 8:12 PM
What are you talking about? No restrictions on .22 rifles? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

CCWguy is wrong!!

The only exemption for 22 mags is for tube-fed magazines, as per PC 12020(c)(25)(B) - "22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device".

(This is kinda interesting as 223 is often referred to as "22 cal" in bullet size, and no one has specified rimfire vs centerfire. Thus it could be easily argued that tubular hicap mags for a 223 firearm (using a series of rotary tubes holding more than 10rds each) is exempt.)

In any case it appears Dean /VegasND is good to go since he appears to have had simultaneous residence in CA and possession of these hicaps. So therefore he can reenter because he is not 'importing'.

Wulf
10-06-2007, 8:19 PM
Therefore you can reenter CA with your hicaps. The fact that you had CA residency with mags before 1/1/2000 is key. Residency's an easy thing to prove.

Where do you read in the law that possession AND residency prior to 1/1/2000 are required?

I only see where it mentions possession. I'm not saying your wrong, I just never understood that there was a residency requirement.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 8:22 PM
Where do you read in the law that possession AND residency prior to 1/1/2000 are required?

I only see where it mentions possession. I'm not saying your wrong, I just never understood that there was a residency requirement.

There really isn't. But, practically speaking, the ease of defense is far far easier w/residency before 1/1/00.

You could end up (never having been a resident) as being charged with importation and you'd have to take pains to show you'd been in CA before 1/1/00 with them. While the burden of proof is on prosecution, it's still a bit more of hump to climb. Sure an attorney can get you off on this, but for practical aspects residency really helps and I'd not really recommend reimportation for nonresidents.

Wulf
10-06-2007, 8:50 PM
There really isn't. But, practically speaking, the ease of defense is far far easier w/residency before 1/1/00.

You could end up (never having been a resident) as being charged with importation and you'd have to take pains to show you'd been in CA before 1/1/00 with them. While the burden of proof is on prosecution, it's still a bit more of hump to climb. Sure an attorney can get you off on this, but for practical aspects residency really helps and I'd not really recommend reimportation for nonresidents.

I know there's some competetive shooters in Nevada that come over occasionaly for matches. I suppose if they every got challanged they'd have a match result out there somewhere that establish their prior presence with guns stuff which sounds like all the resonable doubt in the world.

bwiese
10-06-2007, 9:04 PM
I know there's some competetive shooters in Nevada that come over occasionaly for matches. I suppose if they every got challanged they'd have a match result out there somewhere that establish their prior presence with guns stuff which sounds like all the resonable doubt in the world.

It's not always that easy. Yes, you have a defendable case. But it may not walk away nearly as easily as that for someone who's actually had pre-2000 CA residency. I hesitate to recommend other scenarios since someone's sure to get in trouble.