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-aK-
10-04-2007, 1:35 AM
I can't find it so I'm wondering if anyone else can show me.

Is it illegal in CA to burn potassium nitrate? or any other substance that when set afire creates smoke.

essentially burning this chemical can create a large volume of smoke. If a person made a device that burned potassium nitrate and created smoke would they be violating any CA laws?

if you think that a person would be, please cite the code that they would be violating and comments.

I can find code that states that it is illegal to have something that explodes but I have not found anything that says you can not burn a substance that simply creates smoke.

Thank you...

don't flame, because I'm just trying to be prudent. The purpose of this thread is to avoid any illegal activity. If you can contribute, please do.

Yes, this is in reference to the potassium nitrate, sugar, and baking soda mix that would produce a large volume of smoke. The little one is working on science experiments and we want to try different things out. First project is to grow crystals and I want to explore more in depth science experiments with her.

ts
10-04-2007, 4:04 AM
i believe you can put a 37mm smoke canister into a 37mm flare launcher and it would be legal. i think it comes down to how you are using it.

movie theater = go to jail
trapped in the woods = get rescued
in the middle of the desert playing around with it a lot and a helicopter is sent out to rescue you = might get a bill.

edit: why would you even use the word "bomb" in this thread?

N6ATF
10-04-2007, 9:56 AM
Prepare for raid!

-aK-
10-04-2007, 12:35 PM
edit: why would you even use the word "bomb" in this thread?


I used the word "bomb" because this is what I was referring to.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/704958/ultimate_colored_smoke_bomb/

It is essentially a smoke canister. One may call it a smoke "bomb" or one would most likely call it a smoke "grenade."

But anyhow, the title of the video is "ultimate colored smoke bomb"

-aK-
10-04-2007, 12:40 PM
For those of you who are interested this video is even cooler.
How to make thermite.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/599982/how_to_make_thermite/

Very interesting but unfortunate for me way beyond the scope of a 8 year olds science project. :) Maybe in another 8 years.

-aK-
10-04-2007, 12:50 PM
i believe you can put a 37mm smoke canister into a 37mm flare launcher and it would be legal. i think it comes down to how you are using it.

movie theater = go to jail
trapped in the woods = get rescued
in the middle of the desert playing around with it a lot and a helicopter is sent out to rescue you = might get a bill.


Oh, and certainly I understand what you are saying. Obviously I'm not going to light something off inside of a movie theater or any other unsafe place. I am just wondering if in itself the chemical composition would be illegal to make under the current Nazi regime.

Like I said, this would be for a science experiment and if I feel comfortable that I'm not breaking any laws and I do end up trying to get this to work I would make sure it is done in a safe and responsible manner.

As far as I can tell I can't have a device that explodes and this smoke "bomb" doesn't explode it simply burns and if you add colored dye it burns colored smoke.

ts
10-04-2007, 5:56 PM
Oh, and certainly I understand what you are saying. Obviously I'm not going to light something off inside of a movie theater or any other unsafe place. I am just wondering if in itself the chemical composition would be illegal to make under the current Nazi regime.

Like I said, this would be for a science experiment and if I feel comfortable that I'm not breaking any laws and I do end up trying to get this to work I would make sure it is done in a safe and responsible manner.

As far as I can tell I can't have a device that explodes and this smoke "bomb" doesn't explode it simply burns and if you add colored dye it burns colored smoke.

If you stop using the word bomb then I don't see any problem with making smoke. I do it whenever I light my cigarette. (Then I throw my cigarette someplace to cause a diversion, thus making it a cigarette grenade;))

-aK-
10-04-2007, 6:11 PM
The reason I did use the word is that is essentially what I'm asking.

Would that smoke creating device be able to be considered an explosive device by CA law?

I'm pretty sure that it is fine but I thought I'd put it out there to see if anyone could correct me.

ts
10-04-2007, 6:15 PM
The reason I did use the word "bomb" is that is essentially what I'm asking.

Would that smoke creating device be able to be considered a "bomb" or explosive device by CA law?

I'm pretty sure that it is fine but I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone could correct me.

NO BOMB! It's like the word assault weapon vs semi-automatic rifle.

Good:
Officer: What the hell are you doing?
You: Oh - Science experiment.

Go to Jail:
Officer: What are you doing?
You: Making a smoke bomb.

Note: I might be wrong. But it's just logic and common sense. When I was in highschool we did stuff like that all the time. Bottle rockets, etc.

Patriot
10-04-2007, 6:19 PM
NO BOMB! It's like the word assault weapon vs semi-automatic rifle.

Good:
Officer: What the hell are you doing?
You: Oh - Science experiment.

Go to Jail:
Officer: What are you doing?
You: Making a smoke bomb.

Note: I might be wrong. But it's just logic and common sense. When I was in highschool we did stuff like that all the time. Bottle rockets, etc.

At least he didn't call it an IED :rolleyes:

Rhys898
10-04-2007, 7:42 PM
It's an ISD, improvised smoking device, but that name would also apply to honey bear bongs.....

Jer

P.S. I do not condone the use of illegal drugs!

firecaptdave
10-04-2007, 7:50 PM
My guess is that it would be considered a dangerous firework and you could be cited. I think the section you would be cited for might be one of the misdemeanors that prevents gun purchases...so you wouldn't what that.

ts
10-04-2007, 7:57 PM
My guess is that it would be considered a dangerous firework and you could be cited. I think the section you would be cited for might be one of the misdemeanors that prevents gun purchases...so you wouldn't what that.

might be right - if i were you i would see what chemicals are used in kits for classrooms - if the same chemicals you are using are in those kits i would think it is pretty safe.

-aK-
10-04-2007, 7:58 PM
Hmm, do you know what section it is so that I can read up on it?

leelaw
10-04-2007, 8:00 PM
Note: I might be wrong. But it's just logic and common sense. When I was in highschool we did stuff like that all the time. Bottle rockets, etc.

Bottle rockets are aerial fireworks. Bad ju-ju in California.

ts
10-04-2007, 11:13 PM
Bottle rockets are aerial fireworks. Bad ju-ju in California.

Note to all high school students: if your professor makes a bottle rocket to display the powers of kenetic energy or what not - call the police immediately. he might be a terrorist or an illegal from TJ trying to show you how to make fireworks.:D

leelaw
10-04-2007, 11:25 PM
Note to all high school students: if your professor makes a bottle rocket to display the powers of kenetic energy or what not - call the police immediately. he might be a terrorist or an illegal from TJ trying to show you how to make fireworks.:D

"bottle" rocket or "model" rocket? There's a significant difference, one being legal, the other being contraband.

383green
10-05-2007, 10:27 AM
My guess is that it would be considered a dangerous firework and you could be cited. I think the section you would be cited for might be one of the misdemeanors that prevents gun purchases...so you wouldn't what that.


I have nothing to back this up, but my cynical opinion is that you would be charged with making a bomb, the police would search your house, seize anything that looked like a weapon, lay out your Dianne Feinstein Arsenal (tm) on a table and hold a press conference, and then if you are very lucky, have plenty of money and hire a great attorney, you'll get the charge knocked down to making/possessing a dangerous firework, plead no contest and be sentenced to time-served, and never see your firearms again.


But then I think that the glass is half empty and the water in it doesn't look safe to drink. ;)

-aK-
10-05-2007, 11:55 AM
Ok, do you know what section of the penal code that restricts making/possessing a dangerous firework?

Smokeybehr
10-05-2007, 1:07 PM
Ok, do you know what section of the penal code that restricts making/possessing a dangerous firework?

Health and Safety Code Sec. 12500 et seq., FTW.

-aK-
10-05-2007, 3:26 PM
Health and Safety Code Sec. 12500 et seq., FTW.

Thank you.

.. well first off, whether you watched the video or not here are the components of the device.

Potassium Nitrate
Sugar
Baking soda
Organic powdered dye (colored)

Ok, my question was; would this be illegal in CA?

First off is the chemical composition itself restricted?
Well obviously the four items by themselves are not.
Are they when you mix them together?
I don't think so, I haven't found anywhere or anything where they would be.
*quick note potassium nitrate is a main component of black powder, which would be very bad to make I imagine, however that would only be created if you mixed it with charcoal and sulfur which has no bearing on this experiment.

I found some info in this from the Fire Marshall's office. http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf%5Cfireengineering%5Cfw%5CFireworksHandbook2002 .pdf

Ok, now, using the Fire Marshall's info I found some relevant definitions.

12505. Dangerous fireworks
(1) "Dangerous fireworks" includes all of the following:
(a) Any fireworks which contain any of the following:
(1) Arsenic sulfide, arsenates, or arsenites.
(2) Boron
(3) Chlorates, except:
(A) In colored smoke mixture in which an equal or greater amount of sodium bicarbonate is included.
(B) In caps and party poppers.
(C) In those small items (such as ground spinners) wherein the total powder content does not exceed 4 grams of which not greater than 15 percent (or 600 milligrams) is potassium, sodium, or barium chlorate.
(4) Gallates or Gallic acid.
(5) Magnesium (magnesium-aluminum alloys, called magnalium, are permitted).
(6) Mercury salts.
(7) Phosphorus (red or white except that red phosphorus is permissible in caps and party poppers).
(8) Picrates or picric acid.
(9) Thiocyanates.
(10) Titanium, except in particle size greater than 100-mesh.
(11) Zirconium.
(b) Firecrackers.
(c) Skyrockets and rockets, including all devices which employ any combustible or explosive material and which rise in the air during discharge.
(d) Roman candles, including all devices which discharge balls of fire into the air.
(e) Chasers, including all devices which dart or travel about the surface of the ground during discharge.
(f) Sparklers more than 10 inches in length or one-fourth of one inch in diameter.
(g) All fireworks designed and intended by the manufacturer to create the element of surprise upon the user. These items include, but are not limited to, autofoolers, cigarette loads, exploding golf balls, and trick matches.
(h) Fireworks known as devil-on-the-walk, or any other fireworks which explodes through means of friction, unless otherwise classified by the State Fire Marshal pursuant to this part.
(i) Torpedoes of all kinds which explode on impact.
(j) Fireworks kits.
(k) Such other fireworks examined and tested by the State Fire Marshal and determined by him, with the advice of the State Board of Fire Services to possess characteristics of design or construction which make such fireworks unsafe for use by any person not specially qualified or trained in the use of fireworks. 12511. Fireworks
"Fireworks" means any device containing chemical elements and chemical compounds capable of burning independently of the oxygen of the atmosphere and producing audible, visual, mechanical, or thermal effects which are useful as pyrotechnic devices or for entertainment.
The term "fireworks" includes, but is not limited to, devices designated by the manufacturer as fireworks, torpedoes, skyrockets, roman candles, rockets, Daygo bombs, sparklers, party poppers, paper caps, chasers, fountains, smoke sparks, aerial bombs, and fireworks kits.12525. Pyrotechnic compositions
"Pyrotechnic compositions" means any combination of chemical elements or chemical compounds capable of burning independently of the oxygen of the atmosphere.

12526. Pyrotechnic device
"Pyrotechnic device" means any combination of materials, including pyrotechnic compositions, which, by the agency of fire, produce an audible, visual, mechanical or thermal effect designed and intended to be useful for industrial, agricultural, personal safety, or educational purposes.
The term "pyrotechnic device" includes, but is not limited to, agricultural and wildlife fireworks, model rockets, exempt fireworks, emergency signaling devices, and special effects.

After studying that I believe at this time that it does not fall into the classification of "dangerous firework" per 12505.

So the next question is; does it fall under 12525 Pyrotechnic compositions?
I imagine that it probably would burn independently of oxygen. Unfortunately I don't have a vacuum lab to test this so I'll assume that it is a Pyrotechnic composition. However finding this out for sure would be a nice thing to know. For now I'll assume it is.

It appears to me that the difference in this case between it being classified as a Pyrotechnic device or a Fireworks is the intended use.
I would say that if I made this and used it for the purpose of entertainment it is a firework and if I used it for educational purposes or personal safety (survival signaling device for example) it is a Pyrotechnic device.

I can imagine someone wanting to use one of these devices for making special effects for a film or possibly using it for special effects when playing paint ball games. Then I believe it could fall under
12532. Special effects
"Special effects" means articles containing any pyrotechnic composition manufactured and assembled, designed, or discharged in connection with television, theater, or motion picture productions, which may or may not be presented before live audiences and any other articles containing any pyrotechnic composition used for commercial, industrial, education, recreation, or entertainment purposes when authorized by the authority having jurisdiction.

Now that I'm closer to classifying it I'm off to research the if any restrictions on the manufacturing, possessing, and using.

After my research is done I'm going to contact the Fire Marshall's office directly to get the final answer.

CCWFacts
10-05-2007, 5:08 PM
Must... resist... making... joke... about... the gay bomb (http://www.sunshine-project.org/incapacitants/jnlwdpdf/wpafbchem.pdf) being legal in CA, smoke bomb not legal in CA, unless maybe it's a cannabis smoke bomb....

Doheny
02-10-2010, 8:48 AM
Likely not legal under H&S fireworks law (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=8242967072+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve).