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View Full Version : would you be interested in black powder shooting?


duenor
10-03-2007, 7:06 PM
Ive got a little plan in mind. Dont know how it will work out, but first I need some information.

How many of you would be interested in shooting black powder? As 1858 / 1873 Single Action Revolvers: pour a capful of powder into the chamber, put a little patch in, put a ball in, press with lever, repeat for five other cylinders.

For those of you who dont know anything about it, here's what you need to get started:

1. BP revolver - ~$150 used
2. Percussion Caps
3. Black Powder ~$11 a pound
4. Balls .454 ~$10 / 100
5. nipple wrench $5
6. patches $5

This quasi poll is for So Cal Los Angeles county shooters.

Scarecrow Repair
10-03-2007, 8:53 PM
As 1858 / 1873 Single Action Revolvers: pour a capful of powder into the chamber, put a little patch in, put a ball in, press with lever, repeat for five other cylinders.

I am confused here. The 1873 SAA is a cartridge revolver, right? They use black powder cartridges; I didn't think any of them were cap and ball muzzle loaders. And the 1858 Remington is a cap and ball muzzle loading revolver, but I have always loaded it and all cap and ball revolvers with powder, bullet, and grease. Why do you use a patch? I only use patches in single shot muzzle loaders, both pistols and long guns, but never revolvers.

I am new to this, so enlighten me, please.

socalsteve
10-03-2007, 9:46 PM
I live in So Cal (the San Fernando Valley) and I'd be interested - as a matter of fact I just bought a used 1858 remington reproduction.

I haven't shot one before but like I said I'm interested.

I bought it from a guy in Oregon and he should be shipping it any day now.

I think from what I've read you can use a lubed patch instead of grease? I'm not sure I'll read up more before I try anything.

Army
10-03-2007, 10:40 PM
I am confused here. The 1873 SAA is a cartridge revolver, right? They use black powder cartridges; I didn't think any of them were cap and ball muzzle loaders. And the 1858 Remington is a cap and ball muzzle loading revolver, but I have always loaded it and all cap and ball revolvers with powder, bullet, and grease. Why do you use a patch? I only use patches in single shot muzzle loaders, both pistols and long guns, but never revolvers.

I am new to this, so enlighten me, please.
Cabela's and other offer a '73 styled C&B for those who just don't want to go through all the paperwork and DROS hassle.

My old '58 would take nearly 40grs if I really crushed the loading lever. That silly thing was more accurate than it should have been. But, of course, I traded it off too.:(

duenor
10-04-2007, 4:38 AM
yup, there are a myriad variety of C&B revolvers.
my personal one is an 1858 remmie by pietta, with an R&D cylinder in 45 LC for those days when I want to let my big cartridge hang out too like the 44mag guys.

let me know if you guys are interested... if you dont have a BP gun thats okay; all you need is to be interested in my cunning plan.

RudyN
10-04-2007, 9:02 AM
I live in Santa Clara County and have two repro 1858 Remingtons. Haven't shot them for a looong time though. It is fun. I love the smell of Black powder in the morning. :D

ar15barrels
10-04-2007, 9:52 AM
I just committed to a 36 caliber navy clone, but I have not picked it up yet.
I also have a TC New Englander that I managed to mount nice rear vernier sight and front globe sights on.

We should have a Calguns blackpowder shoot.
There's bound to be enough people to make a party out of it.

duenor
10-05-2007, 1:53 AM
that's exactly what im thining of, AR15.
a calgunst BP shoot at either angeles or burro (or DM for members), and a BP group buy. I'm not sure how hazmat works other than that you have to pay hazmat twice for smokeless and then for BP; but if we can group buy we could save a ton over store and also use real BP vs that BP substitute stuff. It is far too dangerous to store more than a pound or two of BP in one persons home (although I suppose with some effort you could bury it in the ground where an explosion would do nothing but raise dirt).

ditto for balls, lube, etc.

kev

Parag
10-05-2007, 5:29 PM
I found a nice 8" Uberti 1858 Remington sporting a factory conversion to .45LC cartridges with a proper loading-gate rather than just a special cartridge cylinder. I think it's fairly new - couldn't find it on their web-site.

'Course, it's a "regular" single-action pistol (needs FFL, DROS, other TLAs), but I think it's nicer than the conversion cylinders. Only one firing pin rather than one per cylinder.

Oddly enough, it still has the loading-piston/lever - not sure how one would use it tho'.

Maybe we need a black-powder-substitute day here in the SF Bay Area too. BP is a little less safe and harder to clean, or so I understand.

-- Parag

Scarecrow Repair
10-05-2007, 8:41 PM
I found a nice 8" Uberti 1858 Remington sporting a factory conversion to .45LC cartridges with a proper loading-gate rather than just a special cartridge cylinder. I think it's fairly new - couldn't find it on their web-site.

'Course, it's a "regular" single-action pistol (needs FFL, DROS, other TLAs), but I think it's nicer than the conversion cylinders. Only one firing pin rather than one per cylinder.

What I like about the conversion cylinder is not having to DROS. Closest you can get to cash and carry. The only real drawback is reloading, but for a home defense gun, if six shots don't do the trick, well, I have other problems.

BP is a little less safe and harder to clean, or so I understand.

But only BP has the smell and the smoke, and the substitutes don't work well in flintlock pans.

timmyb21
10-05-2007, 11:03 PM
The nipple wrench sounds painful ;)

duenor
10-06-2007, 1:40 AM
for a home defense gun, if six shots don't do the trick, well, I have other problems

that's why you carry TWO 1858 revolvers. if TWELVE 250grain lead slugs dont do the trick.. well there's always flippin' em around and switching to head-bashing mode.

betcha can't do THAT with a glock!

Ghugly
10-06-2007, 10:14 AM
I found a nice 8" Uberti 1858 Remington sporting a factory conversion to .45LC cartridges with a proper loading-gate rather than just a special cartridge cylinder. I think it's fairly new - couldn't find it on their web-site.

'Course, it's a "regular" single-action pistol (needs FFL, DROS, other TLAs), but I think it's nicer than the conversion cylinders. Only one firing pin rather than one per cylinder.

Oddly enough, it still has the loading-piston/lever - not sure how one would use it tho'.

Maybe we need a black-powder-substitute day here in the SF Bay Area too. BP is a little less safe and harder to clean, or so I understand.

-- Parag

I had an Uberti 1860 Army that I shot for a few years. I used only genuine black powder. When I was done shooting for the day, I'd disassemble it, toss it in the kitchen sink, and scrub the heck out of it. A good drying and oiling kept it in perfect condition. Other than the smell of rotten eggs, I've always preferred the genuine black.

If you want some real fun, try shooting a 1847 Walker Dragoon. It will defiantly get your attention! I've shot a S&W .460 Magnum and it was impressive. My friend's Walker, loaded with 60 odd grains of FFFG, is more impressive. More recoil, more flame, and the smoke cloud (sometimes a huge, round, smoke ring that just hangs in the air) is something that is just too cool for words.

Back in the early '70's, I was returning from a shooting session with my .58 caliber rifle when I saw a couple of friends of mine. I stopped to say,"hi." They asked what I was doing, and I told them. One of them asked to shoot it, so I pulled it out and started loading it. At that point, he started laughing. He said, "I thought you had a REAL GUN...........THAT THINGS A TOY!!!!" You should have seen the look on his face when he pulled the trigger! With 120 grains of FFG behind the round ball, there was close to a 2 foot flame, a huge cloud of smoke, and recoil that he was just not prepared to deal with. 30 odd years later, it's still one of my favorite memories.

TMC
10-06-2007, 12:53 PM
So once you shoot cap & ball you have to try flint. Earlier this year we took a faily trip to Virginia to show the kids were this nation started, well everywhere you go where they have re-enactments there are flintlock demonstrations and every gift shops has toy flintlock rifles and pistols. My 11 year old wanted one but they were about $45.00+, for a toy! I told her I'd rather buy a kit for a real one and we could build it together so that's what we did. I did the tougher metal fitting but she did most of the work. It turned out really nice. We took it camping this summer to try it out. Its slow to load but fun to shoot. A middle of the road load with a 50 cal ball has very little recoil, the only thing you have to get used to is the delay sometimes from the flash to the bang (I was using 2F because that's all I had, 3F would have made for better ignition with flint). Trouble is now I want a flint rifle.

CSACANNONEER
10-06-2007, 5:54 PM
TMC,
You should be useing ffffg in your primming pan.

Parag
10-07-2007, 4:58 PM
Good point about the conversion cylinders, tho' it's almost as much trouble to unload and load a single-action via loading-gate as it is to just swap cylinders. Although I have seen some Cowboy Action folks do it really fast.

Isn't another problem with BP in general (and probably BP substitutes) that it doesn't keep well when loaded? That is, a loaded BP firearm has a fairly short time in which it must be fired or unloaded/reloaded? A day or so? Perhaps the substitutes are better for home-defense purposes?

Although perhaps the Ruger Old Army conversions are better for this role since they can handle smokeless powders...

-- Parag

CSACANNONEER
10-07-2007, 5:18 PM
Isn't another problem with BP in general (and probably BP substitutes) that it doesn't keep well when loaded? That is, a loaded BP firearm has a fairly short time in which it must be fired or unloaded/reloaded? A day or so? Perhaps the substitutes are better for home-defense purposes?

-- Parag

I don't know about that. There have been numerous accounts of old wall hangers being able to fire after many years of hanging over a mantle. It more depends on 1) the quality of the powder, 2) the type of lube used (some homebrew lubes could be detramental to the powder, 3) and most importantly, how it was stored. Including humidity, temperature and how well the charge was sealled from the air.

Fjold
10-07-2007, 5:35 PM
I was stationed with a guy in the Navy who had a large scar on the side of his neck. He explained that his grandfather had an original 1800's flintlock rifle hanging on his wall. His brother took it down one day and was playing with it, making sparks. The fourth or fifth time he did this the gun discharged and the guy I knew was hit in the neck with burning powder. Luckily there was no ball loaded but the powder and patch material tore the side of his neck open and left a permanent powder burn. No one knew how long it had been since the gun was last shot but it was easily 20 years.

Scarecrow Repair
10-07-2007, 8:53 PM
Good point about the conversion cylinders, tho' it's almost as much trouble to unload and load a single-action via loading-gate as it is to just swap cylinders. Although I have seen some Cowboy Action folks do it really fast.

Isn't another problem with BP in general (and probably BP substitutes) that it doesn't keep well when loaded? That is, a loaded BP firearm has a fairly short time in which it must be fired or unloaded/reloaded? A day or so? Perhaps the substitutes are better for home-defense purposes?

Although perhaps the Ruger Old Army conversions are better for this role since they can handle smokeless powders...

-- Parag

A friend says the real problem with blackpowder isn't storing the gun with unburnt powder, but not cleaning it once it is fired or if it gets wet. He has loaded rifles and let them sit for a year and they fired fine. He assumes you have a good seal and are using cap and ball, not a flintlock, because the patch and cap seal the powder away from humid air, unlike the touchhole of a flintlock.

As for the conversion cylinder, the powder is contained within the brass cartridge. That's what makes them better for home defense than cap and ball, where the grease would attract dust and possibly dry up or leak, not only making a mess but possibly exposing the powder to air.

Load it up, keep it, fire once in a while for practice, great little unregistered gun, cheap, expendable if they take it for investigation, and as reliable as any other cartridge gun, I think.

RAMCHARGER
10-09-2007, 9:31 AM
I love shootin' BP loads (Win X) loads from my Taurus SAA .45 Colt when the little shop gets em.
It's stainless so I just dunk it in a gallon buket of parts cleaner over night cuz dat stuff is dirty :)

I had a .36? caliber BP revolver that I later gave to my brother.

Blue
10-09-2007, 11:46 AM
I live in Santa Clara County and have two repro 1858 Remingtons. Haven't shot them for a looong time though. It is fun. I love the smell of Black powder in the morning. :D



I've got an original :D

Target Masters in Milpitas told me I could shoot it there too.