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savasyn
10-01-2007, 11:24 AM
Can I rebuild hi cap magazines with completely different parts? I have some Thermold mags that are well used and would be interested in rebuilding them with metal bodies. Is that legal or do I have to stay with Thermold bodies?

Also, do I have to wait until the bodies are non-functional/broken to rebuild them or can I do it at any time?

Thanks!

QuarterBoreGunner
10-01-2007, 1:03 PM
Bottom line. Yes.
As long as you end up with the same number of standard capacity magazines as before, you're good to go.
Case in point: I had six garbage USA brand mags for a my M1A; I ordered six rebuild kits, which were basically complete military mags that were completely disassembled. I crushed the USA mag bodies in a press, then marked on the crushed mag bodies with a white paint pen the date that I destroyed them. Then I re-assembled the six GI mags and viola! All cool.

savasyn
10-01-2007, 1:27 PM
Cool, that makes sense.
Now where can I buy disassembled mag kits? I've not seen those.

Can I have out of state friends buy complete mags (for like $15!!), take them apart and send the parts to me, or is that a major no-no?

QuarterBoreGunner
10-01-2007, 1:33 PM
Now where can I buy disassembled mag kits? I've not seen those Do a search of the forums; there's usually some one with kits for sale.

Can I have out of state friends buy complete mags (for like $15!!), take them apart and send the parts to me, or is that a major no-no?
As long as they're completely disassembled I believe you're good to go. But I'd check the Cali BOF FAQs to make sure; or even better, PM bwiese (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/private.php?do=newpm&u=191) here and he'll be able to tell you verse and chapter.
He's forgotten more about California firearms laws than either of us will ever know.

tjcoker
10-01-2007, 1:34 PM
Cool, that makes sense.
Now where can I buy disassembled mag kits? I've not seen those.

Can I have out of state friends buy complete mags (for like $15!!), take them apart and send the parts to me, or is that a major no-no?

Got to check on the law for that one.

savasyn
10-01-2007, 1:44 PM
Cool, thanks for the links. I knew AR mags would be fairly easy to come by, but the ones most in need of replacement are for an HK91. It seems that nothing HK is easy to come by these days. I did see some US made mags for about $15 but they are complete units and not parts.

DedEye
10-01-2007, 5:10 PM
Cool, thanks for the links. I knew AR mags would be fairly easy to come by, but the ones most in need of replacement are for an HK91. It seems that nothing HK is easy to come by these days. I did see some US made mags for about $15 but they are complete units and not parts.

You can get your friend to buy them for even less, check the EE at ar15.com. You can get AR mags (new) for $11ish.

savasyn
10-01-2007, 6:30 PM
If it's legal to have friends buy them and ship disassembled parts here, I'd go for it. I haven't heard 100% that that is cool yet.

ryang
10-01-2007, 7:12 PM
Bottom line. Yes.
As long as you end up with the same number of standard capacity magazines as before, you're good to go.
Case in point: I had six garbage USA brand mags for a my M1A; I ordered six rebuild kits, which were basically complete military mags that were completely disassembled. I crushed the USA mag bodies in a press, then marked on the crushed mag bodies with a white paint pen the date that I destroyed them. Then I re-assembled the six GI mags and viola! All cool.Bottom line: Maybe not. Because it has not been spelled out in either law or precedent, I'd be wary of the "ship of theseus" paradox. For those unfamilar, it raises the question of whether an object, which has had all its component parts replaced, remains fundamentally the same. In this case it's safer to retain at least one original part, even if it's the mag spring, in your rebuild. Otherwise, it really isn't a rebuild.

The closest precedent I know of is actually a mess Boyd Coddington got into regarding smog laws. He'd buy title to an old car and then junk it in the process of building a "custom hot rod" based on that body type. Boyd used the old title to claim the new build was smog exempt. In that case the court used the ship of theseus paradox to claim it wasn't eligible for smog exemption and Boyd was convicted of fraud.

bwiese
10-01-2007, 7:33 PM
All parts of a mag are legally replaceable.

There is no law banning the collection of replacement/repair parts for magazines.

It's probably wise to retain one part of the old mag, esp something like a floorplate.

But it'd be pretty difficult to do this with Thermelt mags, I'd think - how do you put a (say) Thermold floorplate onto a metal tube?

In theory if the above were to be done - it's been awhile since I've seen a Thermelt mag - the mods to such a floorplate would make it not-a-floorplate for a Thermelt anymore and you could well be regarded as buiding a new mag.

Questions like these are real edge conditions that probably shouldn't be asked by people with small bank accounts (for lawyers).

As for regular AR metal mags, it's almost impossible to know or prove what's what and when something occurred. And most people talk themselves into jail.

SemiAutoSam
10-01-2007, 7:35 PM
Here is a letter from one of the states Deputy Attorney Generals on the subject of High capacity magazines purchasing and repairing.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

savasyn
10-01-2007, 8:01 PM
Hmmm, looks like I'm stuck with Thermolds. Are they still in business so I can contact them about replacement parts?

Bill, thanks! And Thermelts, that would be funny if I didn't have so many of them. I've never seen one melt, but I've never had a full auto either. I haven't gotten my rifles get hot enough to melt them yet.

ryang
10-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Here is a letter from one of the states Deputy Attorney Generals on the subject of High capacity magazines purchasing and repairing.I'm very familar with that letter, since I was the person who originally wrote the DOJ asking those questions. :p

gazzavc
10-01-2007, 10:41 PM
When in doubt, stay nothing.

glockk9mm
10-01-2007, 11:05 PM
So if I rebuild my 30rnders should I keep the destroyd parts as evidence that i destroyd them, or should I just throw them away?

C.G.
10-01-2007, 11:07 PM
So if I rebuild my 30rnders should I keep the destroyd parts as evidence that i destroyd them, or should I just throw them away?

I'd keep them just in case.

aplinker
10-01-2007, 11:27 PM
You don't need to destroy them, either. Parts are parts, not magazines.

Wulf
10-02-2007, 7:22 AM
I'd keep them just in case.

I understand the caution. But I also think its a bad habit for a citizen to get into....that is, maintaining evidence to prove your innocence. The way its supposed to work is the State has the obligation to prove guilt. For sure its a "camels nose under the tent" argument I'm making. But the bottom line is is that the legislature wrote a law that's virtually unenforceable. Once you start complying with legislative intent rather than fact of law where do you stop? Next thing you know you're drinking DOJ's FUD Kool-Aid by the gallon. Might as well just give up your OLL, weld all your 10 round magazines into place, and cut up your handguns that have fallen off the "safe" list while you're at it.

SemiAutoSam
10-02-2007, 7:45 AM
Great then why didn't you post it first ?

BTW its helped get replacement Mag kits into California so thank you for your efforts and thoughts in writing the original letter.

I'm very familiar with that letter, since I was the person who originally wrote the DOJ asking those questions. :p

ryang
10-02-2007, 8:29 AM
Great then why didn't you post it first?I did, back in 2005. :D Here's a link to the original post:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24722

BTW its helped get replacement Mag kits into California so thank you for your efforts and thoughts in writing the original letter.You're welcome. I was just doing my part to help the community as a whole.

glockk9mm
10-04-2007, 10:32 PM
Just buy them from CProdcuts online. They are cheap and quality.

http://www.cproductsllc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=cp&Category_Code=30rnd (http://www.cproductsllc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=cp&Product_Code=190&Category_Code=KITS)

http://www.cproductsllc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=cp&Product_Code=175-0&Category_Code=30rnd

I need to replace my follower and my body in my mag, can I purchase both the follower kit, and body at the same time? or should I order them separately to avoid any trouble?

m1match
10-05-2007, 8:36 PM
Yes C Products will sell mag bodies and rebuild kits (follower, spring, floorplate) to Californians. One thing to keep in mind is they told me the stainless steel mag bodies will not work with stock GI followers so you'll need to buy their followers.

8200rpm
11-09-2007, 12:57 AM
All parts of a mag are legally replaceable.

There is no law banning the collection of replacement/repair parts for magazines.

It's probably wise to retain one part of the old mag, esp something like a floorplate.

But it'd be pretty difficult to do this with Thermelt mags, I'd think - how do you put a (say) Thermold floorplate onto a metal tube?

In theory if the above were to be done - it's been awhile since I've seen a Thermelt mag - the mods to such a floorplate would make it not-a-floorplate for a Thermelt anymore and you could well be regarded as buiding a new mag.

Questions like these are real edge conditions that probably shouldn't be asked by people with small bank accounts (for lawyers).

As for regular AR metal mags, it's almost impossible to know or prove what's what and when something occurred. And most people talk themselves into jail.

If someone had a damaged Thermold mag body or floorplate, the Thermold follower and spring would fit into a USGI mag tube/floorplate.

Thermelts are the ones with the Canadian maple leaf. According to one source, the Canadians apparently downgraded from Thermold's original DuPont Zytel to a cheaper plastic...

http://magfaq.tripod.com/mags2.htm#3j

MudCamper
11-09-2007, 11:30 AM
Side question: Chrome silicon spring or stainless steel spring? What's the diff? Which is better?

Mute
11-09-2007, 4:37 PM
Silicon springs seem to have longer life. The ones made by ISMI are very high quality and I believe are the ones sold by CProducts and Magpul (need to check with the manufacturer). Given a choice I'd take the silicon springs if they're made by ISMI.