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CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 9:51 AM
Is there any regulations restricing the use of legal (read: registered) "assault weapons" for hunting? I generally use my AR with 5 or 10 round mags for hunting predators, and since Ill be able to register my "assault rifle" Id like to be able to use it for its intended purpose... HUNTING!

Thanks.

moulton
09-30-2007, 10:43 AM
are you in the armed forces? and currently out of state?

CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 10:48 AM
yes

LAK Supply
09-30-2007, 11:14 AM
If you're in another state chances are there's no such thing as a "registered assault weapon." You would be governed by caliber and ME restrictions and not the appearance of the gun.

CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 11:27 AM
Wow, I guess I must elaborate.

I am active duty Army currently stationed at Ft. Knox, KY. I have recently received orders to PCS (permenent change of station / this means move) to Southern California for my next assignment. I have received the application for the Military "Assault Weapons" Permit, filled it out and monday will be going down to the MP (Military police) station to do the fingerprint cards. After the application is complete, I will be sending it to the DOJ/BOF for processing and then will be waiting for receipt of my permits. Once the permits are received I will have a legal, registered, "assault weapon"

Now for the question:

Are there any regulations that prohibit the use of a legal, registered "assault weapon" for hunting in the state of California. Im not concerend with DFG regulations, those are easy enough to read and understand, its the firearms laws Im not to clear on.

To those who have any pertinant information, Thank You.

Quiet
09-30-2007, 1:08 PM
CA Penal Code 12285(c) indicates where you can possess your registered assault weapons and .50BMG rifles.

Unless you are going to do your hunting on private property with the owner's permission or on goverment own land that allows the use of assault weapons, doesn't seem like you can use it.

Also, I believe you are limited to 5 round magazines when hunting.


PC 12285
(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1.

CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 1:14 PM
CA Penal Code 12285(c) indicates where you can possess your registered assault weapons and .50BMG rifles.

Unless you are going to do your hunting on private property with the owner's permission or on goverment own land that allows the use of assault weapons, doesn't seem like you can use it.

Also, I believe you are limited to 5 round magazines when hunting.


PC 12285
(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1.

Allright, thanks for that.

It specifically says "use of a firearm...is specifically permitted" It does not say "use of an "assault weapon". so from that I must determine that I CAN use my "assault weapon" for hunting on any BLM or other land that is open for hunting.

Thanks for the code.

**EDIT** I guess I must get permission.... Thanks, I misread your post the first time. Under closer review...

CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 1:25 PM
Swweeettt.

From the BLM website:

"Persons have the permission of the Bureau of Land Management to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands, except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations."

Rascal
09-30-2007, 1:40 PM
There is no restrictions on magazine capacity, for hunting, however since you are coming into the state after the Cal magazine ban, you cannot bring magazines with a capacity of over ten rounds into the state, even if/when you get the permit to bring in your AW. You can hunt with a ten round magazine if you like.

metalhead357
09-30-2007, 9:21 PM
Swweeettt.

From the BLM website:

"Persons have the permission of the Bureau of Land Management to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands, except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations."


WHichhhhhhhhhhhh Site???????????????????
BLM DOES allow AW's on SOME sites...BUT NOT ALL; case in point NO BLM lands in the redding district allow it:cool: while plenty of others do...Please list the site (both where you're planning to hunt and Which WEB SITE you got that from....

But on NFS lands you're good to go with AW's and hunting...........:D


And NO----------- NO 10 round restrictions or 5 round restrictions--- it aint addressed in the codes anywhere but for shotguns.

SemiAutoSam
09-30-2007, 9:32 PM
AR15's have had a place in hunting for a long time.

This COLT Ad is from the 1960's if im not mistaken.

Have a look at the price.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/coltadbk6.jpg

bwiese
09-30-2007, 10:40 PM
While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision


It specifically says "use of a firearm...is specifically permitted" It does not say "use of an "assault weapon". so from that I must determine that I CAN use my "assault weapon" for hunting on any BLM or other land that is open for hunting.

Not so fast there!

12285(c)(6) above says pretty directly that specific use of an AW must be expressly authorized by agency. Similar strictures apply to private land: if you say "Can I hunt/shoot on your land?" is not good enough: you must ask/get permission by saying, "Can I hunt/shoot on your land with an AW?"

Broadly, you cannot take an AW into a place where the owner does not specifically authorize it.

Also, if you visit a friend in a rental residence/apartment to show your AW, not just the resident must give his approve, the owner (or owner's legal agent) must give permission.

This does not apply to businesses in rented property: the biz owner - a gunshop, or your buddy's auto shop - the proprietor can give permission w/o further permission required.

There is a memo from June? July 2003 by BLM/Forest Service that says that lawful AWs can be used on BLM land. (Signed by USFS Region 5 director.) As I recall it does not to make a distinction between registered AWs and permitted AWs.

Use care on state lands that intermingle with BLM lands, borders can be murky (GPS!, and have a *current* map). I am not sure, but some BLM lands may actually be jointly administered/shared lands with CA and extreme caution should be observed.

Remember that misuse of an AW (i.e, using it in the wrong place at the wrong time - i.e., unauthorized even if shooting is legal otherwise) is a 12280(a) PC felony, just like transport violation - and this applies even if the AW is legally permitted or registered!

Walk carefully. I'm sure in the next few months I'm gonna get a phone call from someone that says "But it was registered and legal!" - and the point is, that's still not always enough.

CavTrooper
10-01-2007, 1:11 AM
WHichhhhhhhhhhhh Site???????????????????
BLM DOES allow AW's on SOME sites...BUT NOT ALL; case in point NO BLM lands in the redding district allow it:cool: while plenty of others do...Please list the site (both where you're planning to hunt and Which WEB SITE you got that from....

But on NFS lands you're good to go with AW's and hunting...........:D


And NO----------- NO 10 round restrictions or 5 round restrictions--- it aint addressed in the codes anywhere but for shotguns.

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/recreation/hunting.html



BLM>California>Recreation>Hunting
Print Page


Hunting and Target Shooting
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hunting is permitted on public lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management. State of California hunting regulations must be followed on Federal lands.

Target Shooting is allowed on public lands. However, you must provide your own targets and remove your debris when you leave your site. It is illegal to shoot at trees, signs, outbuildings, or other objects on federal lands that are for the public's enjoyment.

Bureau of Land Management California policy is to allow the use of firearms on public lands, as provided for in state law, and to cooperate with state authorities in the enforcement of firearms regulations.

Persons have the permission of the Bureau of Land Management to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands, except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations.

Proper Access to public lands must be through public roads. Crossing private lands to access public lands is not permitted unless you first obtain permission from the private landowner. Surface management maps may help you in locating public (Federal) lands.

Safe and prudent actions should be followed at all times. Be aware of the other public land visitors who may be utilizing the same areas for other recreational uses, i.e., camping, hiking, biking, and rock-hounding.

If you have specific questions on areas that may be appropriate for hunting or shooting, you are encouraged to contact the BLM Field Office having jurisdiction over the area:

Map of Field Office boundaries and locations
List of Field Office addresses and telephone numbers

Sounds like yall in Redding may be getting the shaft:

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/redding/recreationmain/reddingrecreationhunting.html

BLM adheres to the guidelines issued by the California Department of Justice regarding the types of weapons allowed for use on the public lands. Use of assault-type weapons is not permitted.

metalhead357
10-01-2007, 5:36 AM
THAT is why Both Bill and I have said BE CAREFUL......that main page of the BLM is deceptive in that the lil' blurb about other regs in place--- as you yourself saw Redding is just one that doesn't, but there are others as well.

And yep; you're not the only one thinking that the Redding District has thier head someplace where the sun downt shine.........:cool:

CavTrooper
10-01-2007, 5:53 AM
Ok, so this is getting interesting.
Im going through all the DFG and BLM regulations looking for anything pertaining to "AW", and finding many inconsistecies (suprise).

CA "AW" laws say you can shoot your registered, legal "AW" where you have permission to shoot your "AW", public or private ranges, private property or public land where shooting is open.

CA BLM says you may shoot your registered, legal "AW" on BLM land except where prohibited by other local laws.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/recreation/hunting.html
"Persons have the permission of the Bureau of Land Management to possess and use firearms, including lawfully registered assault weapons, on BLM-administered public lands, except when prohibited by other applicable laws and regulations."

Then, going through the individual BLM districts, you find that each has either thier own regs (always citing CA state law, not local laws) or no regs regarding "AW", like was pointed out earlier in the Redding district:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/redding/recreationmain/reddingrecreationhunting.html
"BLM adheres to the guidelines issued by the California Department of Justice regarding the types of weapons allowed for use on the public lands. Use of assault-type weapons is not permitted."

or in Hollister:
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/hollister/faq_hunting.html
"The following weapons and ammunition are PROHIBITED on public lands: Assault weapons, as defined and listed in the California Penal Code Section 12276; Machine Guns; Shotguns with barrels less than 18 inches in length; Rifles with barrels less than 16 inches in length; Tracerammunition, Armored Piercing ammunition; Steel-Jacketed ammunition; Steel-Cored ammunition; Incendiary or Explosive ammunition. There are exceptions! Please contact the Law Enforcement Ranger for the area in which you will be hunting or target shooting, to ensure youīre using legal weapons and ammo."

Going back to 12285, it states that:
"(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276,12276.1, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land. "

CA BLM being the overall manager of the land gives express permission that legal "AW" may be used on BLM land.

Certain individual districts say it is unlawful, citing STATE, not LOCAL, laws.

Other districts simply refer you to state firearms and hunting regulations.

So, I am printing off all of the state BLM regs and individual BLM district regs, highlighting the relevant portions, putting them in a binder along with my printout of 12275-12290, will be including a copy of my MAWP and any other relevant info, and keeping this with me in my vehicle whenever I go out with my "AWs".

Im gonna play the CYA game, if I get messed with, I can break it out and show whoever, whats what.
I feel that by going out and legally hunting with my "AW", it will be more positive exposure and hopefully help to change some views or opinions on "AWs" and the retarted laws pertaining to them.
Im going through this stuff like its my J-O-B. When I go out with my registered, legal "AW", I will be following the letter of the law. If I get hemmed up by some overzelous LEO I will either be wrong, and its my fault, or the LEO will be wrong, in which case I have all relevent documentaion to prove my case then and there.
If Im wrong, I wont be crying to anyone about anything, I was wrong and will accept my punishment. However If Im in the right and still get messed with, you better belive I will be going off like dynamite on whoever decides to violate my rights.

Thanks to all of you who have given freely, good information. I hope to keep learning the laws with your help, and to participate in whatever effort I can to help the cause in CA.

CavTrooper
10-01-2007, 3:21 PM
UPDATE TO BLM HUNTING AND SHOOTING REGS.

legal "assault type weapons" are a-ok for target shooting and hunting on ALL BLM lands.

Look for the change to be reflected on the BLM districts website, particularly Hollister and Redding BLM districts. :D

**EDIT**Obviously this does not include areas that are off limits to target shooting and hunting or that are regulated as archery or shotgun only areas.

metalhead357
10-01-2007, 5:31 PM
CAV- thanks for the PMS!


You rock; I hope to see it soon. PLEASE. Please print out that letter to you and then scan it!!!!! Post it here with the redacted info about yer'self.... I know there's LOTS of peeps that would love to see this!!!!!!!!!!

And there's a certain BLM'r up north that will now have to find other ways to annoy peeps............

I'd love to get a list of all those ticketed by him in light of this letter. Bet they all could get a refund:D

Between the strike-down of the underground regs of DOJ and now this....I think I'm gonna poop a pink twinkie if I aint carefull:eek: I'm so friggin' ecstatic I spun in my chair several times!!!!!!!!!!!!

CavTrooper
10-01-2007, 5:44 PM
It was an email, not a paper letter, hopefully it doesnt make that big of a difference in the effect on the rules up there. We will see what happens over the next few days in regards to the rules that are posted on the respective BLM district websites. Everyone who should know was informed, according to the conversations and email I received, so I guess we will see, eh?
BTW, this change, while minor, and only to words and not actual regulations, took all of 3 hours to come about.
All this from a poor, uneducated, Army guy with some time on his hands. Imagine what REAL smart people, lawyers or whoever, might accomplish if they actually wanted to.

1 of 1000 cuts.... too easy.

metalhead357
10-01-2007, 5:50 PM
It was an email, not a paper letter, hopefully it doesnt make that big of a difference in the effect on the rules up there. We will see what happens over the next few days in regards to the rules that are posted on the respective BLM district websites. Everyone who should know was informed, according to the conversations and email I received, so I guess we will see, eh?
BTW, this change, while minor, and only to words and not actual regulations, took all of 3 hours to come about.
All this from a poor, uneducated, Army guy with some time on his hands. Imagine what REAL smart people, lawyers or whoever, might accomplish if they actually wanted to.

1 of 1000 cuts.... too easy.

As said in my PM....something closer to...sometimes it just takes a fresh look from a fresh mind. I've called Redding multiple times trying to get them to change thier stance....NEver bothering to think that maybe thier own higher-ups may not know <DOH>:chris:

the northern PRK's in deep grattitude m'friend. I know several hunters that will be flippantly joyous over this one. Think I may just have to frame a copy of the web page when she shows up.......

this just rocks!

CavTrooper
10-05-2007, 10:28 AM
UPDATE:

Redding BLM website has been changed to reflect the ACTUAL laws in regards to "assault weapons". If you recall, at the beginning of the week the Redding BLM website read:

http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/reddi...onhunting.html
"BLM adheres to the guidelines issued by the California Department of Justice regarding the types of weapons allowed for use on the public lands. Use of assault-type weapons is not permitted."

It has since been changed to read:

"BLM adheres to the guidelines issued by the California Department of Justice regarding the types of weapons allowed for use on the public lands. Federal law prohibits the use of fully automatic assault weapons on public land."

The Redding BLM website now reflects the California BLM policy on "assault weapons".

It isnt much, but at least its something, unless of course youve been ticketed or arrested for using your "assault type weapon" on Redding BLM land.

Still waiting on Hollister.

carsonwales
10-05-2007, 2:17 PM
I would just avoid the hassle altogether. Register your AW only if it is 'listed'....otherwise don't waste the time.

If its NOT listed, put a bullet button on it and use anywhere you would otherwise use a center fire rifle....

You haven't indicated whether or not your CFR is listed or not.

I see no logical reason to register your AW in California unless its listed. You can't use High Cap mags anyway...because you can't import them. Further, you know how temporary a PCS can be despite the moniker...A bullet button is a big ZERO issue for hunting....saddle up some ten round mags...high cap mags are useless for hunting and just add needles weight to the gun when your hauling it over hill and dale.

If it is listed, and after you register it...buy a new OLL lower for hunting anyway. Use your existing upper and get a lower parts kit and re-use the stock, buffer, spring and tube off of your original rifle while your here....

Its simply not worth the risk or trouble...and as nebulous and incongruous as the laws are...you can sleep easy with your OLL......Thats my two cents...

CavTrooper
10-05-2007, 2:30 PM
My "assault weapon" is not registered (yet) and it not listed. Why would I register an unlisted rifle, well,
1) to avoid the hassle of nutering my rifle any further than the magazines I use.
2) to piss off the folks that dont want any "assault weapons" in this state by bringing in more.. legally!
3) so that I may unquestionably (by those that do not know) and legally use my "assault rifle" in its current form.

The good thing about it is that since my rifles are of the unlisted variety, I can configure them differently should the need or reason arise.

The regulation here dealt with "assault STYLE weapons", and one could reasonable argue that an OLL with magazine lock could be considered "asault STYLE" and therefore ban them from the BLM lands in question. Since the wording was changed to properly reflect State and Federal law and the CA BLM policy, there is no question now regarding "assault STYLE".

IMHO I believe its a win for legally registered "assault weapons" as well as CA compliant, self loading, semi-auto, centerfire rifles.

carsonwales
10-05-2007, 2:35 PM
My "assault weapon" is not registered (yet) and it not listed. Why would I register an unlisted rifle, well,
1) to avoid the hassle of nutering my rifle any further than the magazines I use.
2) to piss off the folks that dont want any "assault weapons" in this state by bringing in more.. legally!
3) so that I may unquestionably (by those that do not know) and legally use my "assault rifle" in its current form.

The good thing about it is that since my rifles are of the unlisted variety, I can configure them differently should the need or reason arise.

The regulation here dealt with "assault STYLE weapons", and one could reasonable argue that an OLL with magazine lock could be considered "asault STYLE" and therefore ban them from the BLM lands in question. Since the wording was changed to properly reflect State and Federal law and the CA BLM policy, there is no question now regarding "assault STYLE".

IMHO I believe its a win for legally registered "assault weapons" as well as CA compliant, self loading, semi-auto, centerfire rifles.

Fair enough....you seem like a prudent fellow....make damn sure you have explicit permission and/or and carry your paperwork when hunting....

Good luck....and thank you for your service to our Country

CavTrooper
10-05-2007, 2:40 PM
Fair enough....you seem like a prudent fellow....make damn sure you have explicit permission and/or and carry your paperwork when hunting....

Good luck....and thank you for your service to our Country

Thank you.

The "express permission" part was the reason I wanted to clarify the regs on BLM land, as thats where I will be doing most of my hunting. Now, its clear that everyone does have "express written permission" to hunt/shoot on BLM land, its good for everybody!

metalhead357
10-09-2007, 5:47 PM
Abs_friggin"_lootly Awsome News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:d

1911_Mitch
10-09-2007, 8:55 PM
Good work. Thanks for the effort. I don't usually shoot on BLM land, buts its great you got the rules changed for the calgunners in that area!

Subvertz
06-12-2008, 11:12 PM
I'll be taking my recently imported MAWP AR to shoot up some BLM land this weekend!

Rob454
06-13-2008, 8:52 PM
Also, I believe you are limited to 5 round magazines when hunting.




Nope. there is no limit on rounds for a rifle. At least I never read of one in the hunting laws. For shotguns its 3 rounds. You would just look silly as hell going hunting for a deer with a 30 round mag. But I guess if the person is that bad a shot they need all the help they can get:D