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ViPER395
09-30-2007, 7:45 AM
Let me lay the debate to rest, or get one started.

I don't want to hear about how .223 Remy cannot take out Sierra sized deer... It's all about picking your shots wisely, people.

Either way, keep the awes and praise civil, and the envy to a minimum. :p

CSACANNONEER
09-30-2007, 8:27 AM
Plenty of deer have been taken with one shot from a 22lr (I plead the 5th). Yes, it's about shot placement. On the otherhand, it's also about making sure that with an not so perfect shot, you still take your animal with you instead of leaving it wounded and running around in the woods to suffer and die at a later date.

CavTrooper
09-30-2007, 9:09 AM
with a mini-14 no the less!? You were really threading the needle with that one! Id say luck was on your side! LOL!
Nice deer, good job.

hybridatsun350
09-30-2007, 9:22 AM
Impressive! What was the range? Just wondering.

ViPER395
09-30-2007, 9:32 AM
I'm not really good at estimating without pacing. I'd say 70-80yds or so.

Oh and my '14 has been shortened, target-crowned, and threaded with a Smith brake. It shoots alot better and consistent than many Mini-14s out there.

Fjold
09-30-2007, 9:36 AM
Very nice buck and good hunting to get within 70-80 yards for the shot.



Oh and my '14 has been shortened, target-crowned, and threaded with a Smith brake. It shoots alot better and consistent than many Mini-14s out there.


But, that's like saying my Yugo is faster and more reliable than many Yugos out there!

ViPER395
09-30-2007, 9:42 AM
Mini-14s are way more reliable than a Yugo. In fact, I haven't seen one in years!?

& good hunting was not really it. More like I happened to be on the right trail in the right clearcut at the right time of morning. :cool: I can't take credit for nice bucks walking into the open near my position.


Nonetheless.. Thank you all for your compliments!

neomentat
09-30-2007, 10:28 AM
correct me if i'm wrong, isn't it illegal to hunt deer with the under powered .223 round in CA?

Blacktail 8541
09-30-2007, 10:45 AM
correct me if i'm wrong, isn't it illegal to hunt deer with the under powered .223 round in CA?

No it is not. Any center fire caliber.
Fish & Game Reg 353 title 14 ccr

Solidsnake87
09-30-2007, 1:16 PM
I used hornandy .223 75grn BTHP match ammo in my AR and recently downed a nice deer with a single shot to the heart at around 150 yards. The animal made it about 10 yards before collapsing. It was my first deer hunt and I knew I was using a small round. I waited till the animal was still for a sure shot.

Nice one man!

Fjold
09-30-2007, 1:28 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, isn't it illegal to hunt deer with the under powered .223 round in CA?

OK, you're wrong. Underpowered or overpowered, no matter how you load it, it's legal.

metalhead357
09-30-2007, 9:15 PM
Mini 14 in .223 on Deer?????????????

OHHHHHHHH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Just kidding...as said in other threads--it *can* do the job if the bullets placed right. I'll just never be a fan/dedicated follower to those that subscribe to choosing a .223 FIRST in thier arsenal for deer.....but hey; if I was coyote shooting AND IT WAS DEER SEASON...you BET I'd plunk-it with the '14:)

What was the hang weight of that beastie?????????:confused:

Boarding-Team-Leader
09-30-2007, 9:20 PM
Nice buck, legal method of take = backstrap, liver and onions...Yum!
BTL

Forestboy
10-01-2007, 11:47 AM
Nice deer. I watched a guy kill a doe with a .22 Short. It was a depradation hunt on private land with a permit from the fish and game, anytime, any weapon. 11:30 at night, one shot to the head. 40-50 yds. Never seen a deer killed quicker. The reason he used the short was the neighbors had complained about the 30-06 the night before.

ViPER395
10-04-2009, 10:57 PM
x2

:)

devildog999
10-04-2009, 11:03 PM
Very nice

No one is saying it can't be done. The question is is it the ethical thing to do? Why risk causing the animal to suffer more than it has to instead of getting a larger caliber with a better chance of a clean kill if you miss your mark by a bit.

There's a reason you can't legally hunt big game with a .22lr. It's not because it can't kill, it's because it's not the ethical thing to do. When we are trying to get others into the sport, it is best to show those that have no stance on hunting and that we would like to recruit that we are not savages. That we are ethical and don't want to cause our hunt any un needed suffering.

just my .02

Thefeeder
10-05-2009, 12:25 AM
I do not feel its unethical to use a 22 cal (223, 22-250) on Cal size deer. I'm witness to many who have filled their tags. The hunter is the one who has the burden of ethics in taken the correct shot regardless of what rifle he/ she uses. A 250 yard shot with a 30-30 is not a good shot for 90% of hunters who choose to use a 30-30 with open sights. Likewise, a good many hunters load up with a 300mag and a 6x18 scope thinking that they will be able to drop a buck at 500 yards, but have never shot at anything but a target off a bench at 100yd. Its up to the hunter to make the right call. No equipment will ever trump good hunting skills.

Nice 4X3 Viper.... Congrats!

Spade421
10-05-2009, 12:32 AM
damn nice buck !

jordan870
10-05-2009, 6:55 AM
thats a big deer very cool

Bigballaizm
10-05-2009, 7:13 AM
No one is saying it can't be done. The question is is it the ethical thing to do? Why risk causing the animal to suffer more than it has to instead of getting a larger caliber with a better chance of a clean kill if you miss your mark by a bit.
There's a reason you can't legally hunt big game with a .22lr. It's not because it can't kill, it's because it's not the ethical thing to do. When we are trying to get others into the sport, it is best to show those that have no stance on hunting and that we would like to recruit that we are not savages. That we are ethical and don't want to cause our hunt any un needed suffering. just my .02

I do not feel its unethical to use a 22 cal (223, 22-250) on Cal size deer. I'm witness to many who have filled their tags. The hunter is the one who has the burden of ethics in taken the correct shot regardless of what rifle he/ she uses. A 250 yard shot with a 30-30 is not a good shot for 90% of hunters who choose to use a 30-30 with open sights. Likewise, a good many hunters load up with a 300mag and a 6x18 scope thinking that they will be able to drop a buck at 500 yards, but have never shot at anything but a target off a bench at 100yd. Its up to the hunter to make the right call. No equipment will ever trump good hunting skills.

Both good & valid points in my opinion!! However I would never take a small caliber rifle out to hunt large game. Thats just me...
Nice shot! Congrats.

Harley Quinn
10-05-2009, 7:41 AM
Both good & valid points in my opinion!! However I would never take a small caliber rifle out to hunt large game. Thats just me...
Nice shot! Congrats.

Ditto
:cool2:

Large game being bigger than a CA "blacktail deer"... Distance is a huge factor also.

I would shoot a human with a 223 and they grow a lot bigger than deer.:43:

Nice shot and nice deer...

Regards

vhram
10-05-2009, 7:48 AM
Great job , nice buck. I hope my son doesnt see this post , I was giving him crap for using a .223. Where we hunt you better drop it on the spot or get ready for some canyon climbing.

Qritchie
10-05-2009, 9:29 AM
Ditto
:cool2:
Large game being bigger than a CA "blacktail deer"... Distance is a huge factor also.
I would shoot a human with a 223 and they grow a lot bigger than deer.:43:
Nice shot and nice deer...
Regards

You so krazy HQ... :laugh:

theseacow
10-05-2009, 10:05 AM
niiiice buck. where exactly was this taken?

bombadillo
10-05-2009, 10:10 AM
My co-workers dad uses a .22-250 every year and seems to bring a deer home every year with it. I can't complain because he's doing better than I am.

Trapper
10-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Congrats, thats a nice buck.

ViPER395
10-05-2009, 12:23 PM
This has always been my logic. The US Military agrees.

I would shoot a human with a 223 and they grow a lot bigger than deer.

ViPER395
10-05-2009, 12:23 PM
Google Caldor, Ca.

niiiice buck. where exactly was this taken?

jaymz
10-05-2009, 1:23 PM
What bullet weight if you don't mind me asking?

ViPER395
10-05-2009, 1:29 PM
First one was 60gr Nosler Partition, put out by Federal Premium

Second was Remington Green Box 55gr Pointed Soft Point. CoreLokt or something.

I recommend the former. That one was dead in his tracks. Second one yesterday travelled about 15 yards.

Harley Quinn
10-05-2009, 1:29 PM
What bullet weight if you don't mind me asking?

I hope OP answers this one, though it is sometimes, argued pro or/and con.
I believe the optimum is the one in the 55 grain range give or take 10%.
The rifle twist is important for sure, regarding that subject.
It is really a matter of opinion.

The military has been mentioned.
They have variety of bullets for all occasions being encountered...
So, that is a location for reference, to be able to know, if not sure.

Regards

professionalcoyotehunter
10-05-2009, 1:29 PM
Congrats! nice buck. I thought about taking one with my mini14 also but figured since I still have the .30-06 I would rather blow a hole in them. J/K.

ViPER395
10-05-2009, 1:37 PM
Nice buck, small horns.

http://marcieeric.thedigitalhive.com/pics/nextone.jpg

professionalcoyotehunter
10-05-2009, 1:41 PM
Still very nice. I hope to get one this weekend.

rksimple
10-05-2009, 2:20 PM
I think a lot of people that poo-poo the 223 for deer have never killed a California buck. Knowing how to choose and place your shot is MUCH more important than caliber. Nice buck.

sickboy774
10-05-2009, 3:16 PM
Nice bucks!

mif_slim
10-05-2009, 3:53 PM
What is a ethical kill? letting it suffer longer then it should? so how long is that? I've said it many times, I've seen 7mm Mag hit whitetails and they still take off running to the next state. Of the 38 deers that I've taken, at least 10 of them taken with .223. The rest were taken with Bow. None of them suffer more then what a 270 or 30-06 would do to a deer.

Point is if you do your part, the caliber size doesnt really matter (keep it legal though).

rino
10-05-2009, 6:34 PM
very cool to see a mini take a deer!

m98
10-06-2009, 2:06 AM
What is a ethical kill? letting it suffer longer then it should? so how long is that? I've said it many times, I've seen 7mm Mag hit whitetails and they still take off running to the next state. Of the 38 deers that I've taken, at least 10 of them taken with .223. The rest were taken with Bow. None of them suffer more then what a 270 or 30-06 would do to a deer.

Point is if you do your part, the caliber size doesnt really matter (keep it legal though).

Well Said......But like most and many they would rather prefer the 7 or 300 rem ultra mag monster power killer. THen I ask why not just use a single shot chambered in 50bmg. Hey, it's only going to be a 200yd shot, that ultra master magnum might not be powerful enough for these tough kommifornian deer. Guys that goes out and get a super ultra magnum caliber rifle but can't shoot it sh*T when they spot game....So sad.....When the sharpshooter with the smaller caliber bagged it on the other side of the moutain as the morons that shot at it couldn't hit the side of a barn so as the deer hopped over onto the other side of a mountain it was taken with a .223 by the sharpshooter.

Harley Quinn
10-06-2009, 8:41 AM
What is a ethical kill? letting it suffer longer then it should? so how long is that? I've said it many times, I've seen 7mm Mag hit whitetails and they still take off running to the next state. Of the 38 deers that I've taken, at least 10 of them taken with .223. The rest were taken with Bow. None of them suffer more then what a 270 or 30-06 would do to a deer.

Point is if you do your part, the caliber size doesnt really matter (keep it legal though).

Some consider the time for bleed out (bow) to long. 7 mag is reasonable deer round IMHO If you don't hit vitals or break a shoulder they run:eek:

Jack OConnor wrote about the correct location, it is the heart, lungs similar to a good shot with an arrow. Arrow bleeds um out similar...
But, the extra omph of bullet and energy passing into or through boiler area is, they don't go for the big run, as a rule.

223 Rem, could do that easily, and has. 60 grain is a good bullet, and the fps gives it plenty of energy.

Information for all to read:

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

223 is an outstanding round, for a lot of things.

Hope this helps,
Regards

RobG
10-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Nice bucks:thumbsup: You unethical hunter, you:p

Crazyhorse
10-06-2009, 1:31 PM
I shot a big texas whitetail doe with a .222 @ 210 yards and she dropped in her tracks. I've also um heard? of people taking deer with .22 rifles. I'd "think" stingers would do the job. My regular deer gun is a .243 with barns tripple shock(I think that's the name).

CH

professionalcoyotehunter
10-06-2009, 1:33 PM
This is just ridiculous. It is in another thread.

http://www.all-creatures.org/hope/deer-20090623.htm

Crazyhorse
10-06-2009, 1:38 PM
This is just ridiculous. It is in another thread.

http://www.all-creatures.org/hope/deer-20090623.htm

Seriously someone wasted the time to take the pictures but didn't call a game warden or grab a gun and put the suffering animal down?

But, In their defense if I messed up a shot that bad I would call the game warden and track it till I killed it. Once you have the warden with you, you can walk across any fence lines till you find it.

CH

Harley Quinn
10-06-2009, 1:44 PM
Seriously someone wasted the time to take the pictures but didn't call a game warden or grab a gun and put the suffering animal down?

But, In their defense if I messed up a shot that bad I would call the game warden and track it till I killed it. Once you have the warden with you, you can walk across any fence lines till you find it.

CH

The person who shot that did not know, I have a feeling.
They run and run with that in them...
It was not from a very powerful bow IMHO...

The animal is going to have a tough time of it.

Those who took the picture might have helped the critter. Or not...
Should do some checking and reverse it on to them for not taking the right action :confused:

Dart gun time, take arrow out and let go... Or eat it...;)

Regards

jaymz
10-06-2009, 1:57 PM
The person who shot that did not know, I have a feeling.
They run and run with that in them...
It was not from a very powerful bow IMHO...

The animal is going to have a tough time of it.

Those who took the picture might have helped the critter. Or not...
Should do some checking and reverse it on to them for not taking the right action :confused:

Dart gun time, take arrow out and let go... Or eat it...;)

Regards

Dude. It went all the way through it's head! That was a plenty powerful bow, just a very poorly placed shot. My guess is that it was an inexperienced archer/hunter that couldn't wait for the broadside shot and choked...big time. That's the kind of "hunter" that make us all look bad. Sorry for the threadjack. We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of conversation.:D

professionalcoyotehunter
10-06-2009, 2:15 PM
Most arrows with proper poundage set will pass all the way through unless it hits the shoulder bone. I believe it was not enough pwer as well. I also thought whoever took the pictur should have put it out of it misery dont they have any bit of Decency.

IrishPirate
10-06-2009, 5:52 PM
Plenty of deer have been taken with one shot from a 22lr (I plead the 5th). Yes, it's about shot placement. On the otherhand, it's also about making sure that with an not so perfect shot, you still take your animal with you instead of leaving it wounded and running around in the woods to suffer and die at a later date.

WORD!!!

m98
10-06-2009, 11:49 PM
This is just ridiculous. It is in another thread.

http://www.all-creatures.org/hope/deer-20090623.htm

OMG!!!!!!....I don't know about any of you guys BUT I feel like I just want to beat the LIVING SH*t out of these TREE HUgging MORONs in not immediately calling DFG in to put this poor deer out of it's misery....I'm so pissed off right now.........

Crazyhorse
10-07-2009, 7:17 AM
Dude. It went all the way through it's head! That was a plenty powerful bow, just a very poorly placed shot. My guess is that it was an inexperienced archer/hunter that couldn't wait for the broadside shot and choked...big time. That's the kind of "hunter" that make us all look bad. Sorry for the threadjack. We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of conversation.:D

I'll put cash on it was a young hunter who wanted to take a deer with a headshot. I'll bet he had visions of the deer dropping in her tracks and looking like the old arrow headband deals you see around halloween.

CH

Crazyhorse
10-07-2009, 7:20 AM
The person who shot that did not know, I have a feeling.
They run and run with that in them...
It was not from a very powerful bow IMHO...

The animal is going to have a tough time of it.

Those who took the picture might have helped the critter. Or not...
Should do some checking and reverse it on to them for not taking the right action :confused:

Dart gun time, take arrow out and let go... Or eat it...;)

Regards

Naw, it won't make it. Either it will dislodge the arrow and die from the infection(looked like siliva draining out the neck. Or what is more likely it will die of starvation and dehydration. If it get's lucky someone with a gun with put it down before that happens.

CH

Harley Quinn
10-07-2009, 9:36 AM
Dude. It went all the way through it's head! That was a plenty powerful bow, just a very poorly placed shot. My guess is that it was an inexperienced archer/hunter that couldn't wait for the broadside shot and choked...big time. That's the kind of "hunter" that make us all look bad. Sorry for the threadjack. We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of conversation.:D

Not sure what picture you are talking about?
The one I am discussing is a neck shot, on a very small deer.
It is drooling, arrow is half on both sides of neck:confused:

So as you mentioned, back to OP. A 223 bullet, in same area would not be a kill either IMHO
Will die eventually as "Crazyhorse" mentions.

Regards

RobG
10-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Its always irritating to see the antis cry and mourn for the "poor suffering animals" but, are unwilling to end said suffering. They would rather parade that deers photo around and watch as it dies a slow death in order to show how "unethical" bowhunting is:rolleyes:

professionalcoyotehunter
10-07-2009, 10:33 AM
:iagree:

Harley Quinn
10-07-2009, 10:58 AM
Its always irritating to see the antis cry and mourn for the "poor suffering animals" but, are unwilling to end said suffering. They would rather parade that deers photo around and watch as it dies a slow death in order to show how "unethical" bowhunting is:rolleyes:

That picture is a moment in time, I have a feeling 10 minutes later it was dead. I'll have to give them more credit, than they give the hunter.

winxp_man
10-07-2009, 1:15 PM
i have a friend that has hunted deer in Missouri for about 5-6 years only with a .223 and never has a deer get away... he he had one that he had to shot one more time to kill it for good. to me personally it shot placement if you dont have confidence in you shot than dont shoot. practice makes better with anything.

Crazyhorse
10-07-2009, 1:22 PM
Not sure what picture you are talking about?
The one I am discussing is a neck shot, on a very small deer.
It is drooling, arrow is half on both sides of neck:confused:

So as you mentioned, back to OP. A 223 bullet, in same area would not be a kill either IMHO
Will die eventually as "Crazyhorse" mentions.

Regards

I'm not so sure I agree with that.

I would guess that would be leathal from a .223 Such a fast light round at something like 10-20 yards(guessing distance archer took). Arrows move around bone a bit, the .223 would have fragmented the bone badly, I'm not sure the deer would have moved from where it was shot. From hunting with .222, .223, and .243 I think it would be amazing if the doe even got 25 yards. I have seen similar shots at close range and the bone from the nose/jaw along with the bullet fragments blow out the back of the neck and make a mess.

Not that I would recommend a shot like that but on our land we always have a ton of depravation permits and it's not uncommon for some of my relatives to go for the base of the skull/high neck shots. This saves the shoulders from getting blood shot and laced with bone and brass fragments and the deer tend to drop.

CH

Edit: I would like to add the angle and quality of the pictures isn't that good. In most of the shots it looks like the arrow went in the nose, and down into the mouth, along the inside of the jaw and out the back of the neck. In the very last picture it looks a bit more like it went out alond the bottom of the jaw. Hard to tell, if it went out the bottom of the jaw call it 50/50 the deer ends up like the one in the pictures with more bleeding. If it went throug the neck at all I'd put it more like 90% it would have dropped on the spot.

winxp_man
10-07-2009, 1:36 PM
I'm not so sure I agree with that.

I would guess that would be leathal from a .223 Such a fast light round at something like 10-20 yards(guessing distance archer took). Arrows move around bone a bit, the .223 would have fragmented the bone badly, I'm not sure the deer would have moved from where it was shot. From hunting with .222, .223, and .243 I think it would be amazing if the doe even got 25 yards. I have seen similar shots at close range and the bone from the nose/jaw along with the bullet fragments blow out the back of the neck and make a mess.

Not that I would recommend a shot like that but on our land we always have a ton of depravation permits and it's not uncommon for some of my relatives to go for the base of the skull/high neck shots. This saves the shoulders from getting blood shot and laced with bone and brass fragments and the deer tend to drop.

CH

i agree with this ....... also one thing a .223 round for example a 69 gr will do is tumble i have a friend that shot at a harder surface and she said the shape of the hole was the shape of the actual bullet lookin at the side of it not a round hole....

Chk Chk Boom
10-07-2009, 2:50 PM
OK, you're wrong. Underpowered or overpowered, no matter how you load it, it's legal.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/25mm-relink.jpg

That's me gettin' ready for the hunt.

My Gear:
M242 Bushmaster w/silencer and laser sights and flashlights.
Tacticool to the max.

Harley Quinn
10-07-2009, 4:04 PM
The more I look at those pictures the less I believe them. I think it is photo shopped, to be honest. Fixed up and all that stuff.:confused:

Anyway, been a good conversation.

Regards

devildog999
10-07-2009, 4:07 PM
Its always irritating to see the antis cry and mourn for the "poor suffering animals" but, are unwilling to end said suffering. They would rather parade that deers photo around and watch as it dies a slow death in order to show how "unethical" bowhunting is:rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more. They are so into proving we are monsters that they become the monsters themselves. If a hunter came upon an animal that was injured like that, he would put it out of it's misery.

ViPER395
10-13-2013, 11:03 PM
btt for LeadSlinger

1lostinspace
10-13-2013, 11:18 PM
The armchair commandos are going to love this one. Its amazing how many people have no idea about what they are talking about. I have dropped deer with 9mm and 45ACP. I used Snake oil ammo RBCD and it was like a light went off, they were dead by the time the shell hit the ground! Before everyone goes crazy both had broken leg/hip from car hitting them.

LeadSlinger585
10-13-2013, 11:46 PM
btt for LeadSlinger

Thanks!

ViPER395
10-13-2013, 11:54 PM
I guess I posted number II in this thread instead of starting it's own. darn...
Thanks!

MapleSyrupSmuggler
10-14-2013, 9:34 AM
In Before XcountrywhatshisfaceX

Seriously though, nice buck. Some people are just jelly because they need a cannon to kill any big game. I got a boar several months ago with 223 55 gr barnes. I did a spinal shot and he dropped like a sack of potatoes. :thumbsup:

ViPER395
10-14-2013, 10:28 AM
Thank you Maple. Yea in my other thread I be catching hell right now for using a "varmint round"... If it's good enough to hunt people in the middle east it must work on deer....right?

Sent from my pocket rocket. now Free ('http://tapatalk.com/m?id=10')

Hunt
10-14-2013, 10:46 AM
no problem with a .223 just keep it under 700 yards beyond that wind drift and impact energy may become a negative influence on your accuracy.

Caneman
10-14-2013, 11:14 AM
my guess is that a Barnes 62gr .224 moving at 3000 fps would take out smaller mule deer less than 200 yards

MJB
10-14-2013, 11:52 AM
Their's a reason guides won't let you use anything under 270 on most big game.........just saying.......you don't need a magnum to do it but you do need a bullet with more weight and knock down power. If California had a blood rule I put money on it that all you 223 guys would jump up to bigger calibers.

If your a bow hunter you know about Kinetic energy and all the science behind it. More weight equals harder hitting and deeper penetration which translates into quicker kills and more room for error etc.

Yea a 223 will do the job but not all of the time......I've killed a deer with my 204 and that's really small but would it be my go to gun HELL no it just happened to be what I had at the time when the deer popped out.

ViPER395
10-14-2013, 2:47 PM
I keep it under 100yd usually. I'm in pine forest, not open country. :cool:

no problem with a .223 just keep it under 700 yards beyond that wind drift and impact energy may become a negative influence on your accuracy.