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View Full Version : New York's Single Shot, Black Powder, Musket LOOPHOLE must be closed!


Liberty1
09-28-2007, 10:23 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5678702

Glaring loophole in St. John's rifle incident

Eyewitness News Investigation

(New York - WABC, September 27, 2007) - The Eyewitness News Investigators make a startling discovery. The rifle police say the gunman at St. John's University was carrying is not considered to be a firearm under federal or state law.


The Investigators Jim Hoffer has the story.

The St. John's student who threw an entire college campus into a panic knew for several months he wanted to buy a gun -- and he knew he wanted to buy it in Upstate New York. When you read this story, you'll know why.

It is at a sporting goods store in Poughkeepsie, New York where last week St. John's student Omesh Hiramam purchased a $170 dollar rifle simply by showing an ID card.

The store management would not talk about the purchase. We do know that unlike many of the guns sold here, this one was distinctive: using black powder and firing a single metal pellet.

It's a replica of an antique firearm and federal and state gun laws do not apply to antique-type guns. It can be purchased without any background check.

The gunman's attorney says it was perfectly legal.

"You can go to any gun store in New York, Upstate New York, wherever you want and purchase it," Rosemarie Rotondo, Hiraman's attorney, said.

That's not how the NYPD sees it. As a resident of New York City, Hiraman they claim should have had a gun permit.

"If you show you are a New York City resident, then you have to produce a New York City permit. You are required to have a permit in New York City to possess a rifle. He did not have that permit," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said.

An e-mail that Hiraman wrote to a Long Island attorney back in June shows he knew it would be easier buying a gun outside the city.

He writes to attorney Michael Paul asking, "in Dutchess County what procedure does the gun shop owner follow when an individual is purchasing a rifle."

Four months later, the 22-year-old student traveled to Dutchess County and bought this weapon without any background check. Remember, the attorney says since it was an antique, he didn't need one.

"We're undermined by weak laws elsewhere and this simply must be changed," said Jackie Kuhls, executive director for New Yorkers Against Gun Violence.

A former agent for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms says for state and federal law not to consider this rifle a firearm is crazy.

"It is totally outrageous to have this type of firearm considered to be an illegal type of firearm, especially under federal and state law," said former ATF agent Domincik Polifrone.

The NYPD tested the gun Thursday afternoon. It did fire. The NYPD confirms that it was loaded and operational when the gun was carried onto the campus.

CalNRA
09-28-2007, 10:26 PM
Uh, he missed the international talk-like-a-pirate by a few days.

:eek:

thefinger
09-28-2007, 10:49 PM
"A former agent for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms says for state and federal law not to consider this rifle a firearm is crazy.

"It is totally outrageous to have this type of firearm considered to be an illegal type of firearm, especially under federal and state law," said former ATF agent Domincik Polifrone."


Umm, is it just me, or is the author of this article a little wee-taw-ded?

fireblast713
09-28-2007, 10:52 PM
lol... such BS, for once a state has worse laws then CA. A single shot black power rifle, does anyone honestly think that's a serious threat to public safety? I'd be more worried about a guy with a compound hunting bow and a quiver of broad arrows or maybe those nasty spring loaded types (you don't need a permit for that I'm assuming). And at the very least at least he bought it legally, I'm willing to bet there are thousands of illegal guns in the NYC right now in the hands of criminals, gangsters, and hoodlums... and I'm pretty sure they aren't the 1 shot black powder type.

CSACANNONEER
09-28-2007, 11:07 PM
OMG! Do they know that he could have bought a full-scale muzzle loading cannon just as easily?

I wonder if it was one of those assault type rifles? You know, something that you can attach a bayonet to.

hoozaru
09-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Dee Dee Dee!!!! :D

Charliegone
09-29-2007, 12:53 AM
lol... such BS, for once a state has worse laws then CA. A single shot black power rifle, does anyone honestly think that's a serious threat to public safety? I'd be more worried about a guy with a compound hunting bow and a quiver of broad arrows or maybe those nasty spring loaded types (you don't need a permit for that I'm assuming). And at the very least at least he bought it legally, I'm willing to bet there are thousands of illegal guns in the NYC right now in the hands of criminals, gangsters, and hoodlums... and I'm pretty sure they aren't the 1 shot black powder type.

yeah...but ...but you can shoot it from the hip without reloading.

SamIAm
09-29-2007, 8:54 AM
lol... such BS, for once a state has worse laws then CA.

Actually, it's just NYC. (I used to live there, and the laws in NYC make California look like Free America.) The rest of the state is OK. This is one of the reasons why Giuliani is on the defensive with the NRA, though most of the laws were already in place when he was elected mayor.

Patriot
09-29-2007, 10:16 AM
I'm actually surprised more people aren't up in arms ;) over blackpowder/antique laws. Guess it's a sort of security through obscurity thing.

Liberty1
09-29-2007, 1:15 PM
The NYPD tested the gun Thursday afternoon. It did fire. The NYPD confirms that it was loaded and operational when the gun was carried onto the campus.


Perhaps the arrestee is positioning himself for a future SCOTUS challenge to his arrest with a loaded musket!

Salty
09-30-2007, 3:29 PM
I love how they put so much emphasis on how cheap the gun was and how much harm it could have caused people. When they say "black powder rifle" they say it as if it's some type of evil & illusive gun that no one should be allowed to own.

Christ! it's a f'in musket! One could prolly cover 50+ yards in between reloads.

I hate how slanted the press is, they could turn a rubber band gun into a WMD.

VegasND
09-30-2007, 4:54 PM
Just keep this is mind when people talk about 'reasonable gun control.' This is the perfect example that what is really meant is prohibition of all arms.