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PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 8:59 AM
Is there any other alternative to a US Optics SN3 performance without the big price tag?

How about Nightforce or IOR?

I'm looking for a built like a tank, crystal clean glass, precise turret adjustments, side parallex adjustment, illuminated recticle, in a 3-17xish fashion with the biggest objective i can get my hands on.

front focal is a definite plus.

must be able to go the distance to 1300yards, when one day i get myself a 338lupua

and in 30mm tubing.

Actually, I changed my mind. I'm going to end up putting my Mark 4 on my custom 700, and buy a Nikon Tactical for my 700 p.

I don't see any need to spend that kind of money, when you can get something pretty close for alot less.

Timberwolf
09-27-2007, 9:39 AM
The closest in performace to USOptic is S&B followed IMHO by NF (though I'm not a NF fan at all). But you know my views and what my rifles wear. IMHO if Nikon made their Tactical (or whatever PC term its referred to as now) 4-16X50 illuminated like they did their 2.5-10 they'd have the best tact scope on the market as far as price/performance.

Prc329
09-27-2007, 9:39 AM
From my reading and experience, Nightforce, IOR, Schmitt and Bender are pretty much the top of the game. You looked threw my IOR didn't you?

I love my $300 Nikon though. Great scope.

Mute
09-27-2007, 12:25 PM
If FFP is a must, your only real alternatives in the less expensive price range would be IOR or Leupold. IMHO, IOR has better glass and build quality is about on par. I personally feel NF is a little better than both of the above in terms of build, however, no FFP as of right now.

DJDace
09-27-2007, 1:41 PM
I love the elevation knob on rksimple's custom IOR scope. I wish IOR would switch over to that style knob permanently.

Other than that I love my IOR scope. Side by side with Leupold Mark 4's it blows them out of the water.

Prc329
09-27-2007, 1:47 PM
Pete, go IOR you will not be disappointed.

PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 1:57 PM
i seriously have to tighten down my spending. i would love to get the ior, but it's not in my budget. i'm holding off buying any scope right now. looks like randy is going to be done with the build in the next couple of weeks, so he's going to take a chunk out of me pretty soon. i'm almost 90% sure my mark 4 is going on it. i might get my brother's busnell 4200 scope on the 700 p which will save me alot of money. i'm also going with tps rings and mount which should save me some bucks over the badger.

i think that'll be all for the build.

mayby in the spring time, i'll end up buying a new scope. ior, us optics, or s&b. depends how business goes next year. most guys in my industry have been dying out quick, i'm lucky to be going fairly strong at this time.

anyways thanks for all the advise guy!

wildcard
09-27-2007, 2:16 PM
Well.. just slap your current Badger mounts and Leupold MK4 on your custom rig and leave the 700P alone. I really don't think you'll be shooting both of them. When you decide you want to shoot the 700P THEN dump money into it. Until then.. save your cash.. else the gear will just be sitting there when you could have spent it on something else like bullets and accessories for you custom!

PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 3:41 PM
Well.. just slap your current Badger mounts and Leupold MK4 on your custom rig and leave the 700P alone. I really don't think you'll be shooting both of them. When you decide you want to shoot the 700P THEN dump money into it. Until then.. save your cash.. else the gear will just be sitting there when you could have spent it on something else like bullets and accessories for you custom!

i might do that. although, i want albert to start shooting with us. if he does, i told him that the rifle will be his on a long term, free lease.

bwiese
09-27-2007, 3:58 PM
I just shot my Valdada 2-12x32 scope last nite at Coyote Pt.

Couldn't be happier.

PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 4:12 PM
there might be a budget for a scope shortly. i have someone looking to buy my commuter car today.

Prc329
09-27-2007, 4:45 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=62743

I'm telling you, you will love it.

rksimple
09-27-2007, 4:52 PM
Pete- Word has it that NF is working on an FFP scope. That would be the cats meow, if pricing schemes don't change.

You're right on about getting a scope with almost all the big boy features, at a much reduced cost. Nikon tac scopes are an example of that. Same with most IOR's. Its when you want ALL the top end features (mil knobs, custom reticle, FFP, illum,etc) that it starts to get expensive. Whether or not that extra cost is worth those little upgrades, is up to the shooter.

I'm slowly beginning to take on the attitude of Zak Smith, which is this: The initial cost of the rifle and scope is the smallest investment in becoming a proficient rifleman. Just look at how much is spent in ammo, barrels, matches...not to mention the other associted costs in the overall equation. Its for that reason I chose to have a custom rifle built and to top it with an SN3. I should now never have to worry about my rifle or optic being the weak link in my shooting. For example, the class I'm leaving for this weekend. If my current rifle or scope takes a dump while I'm over there, how much did I really save by cheaping out on optics/rifle?

Buy once, cry once. It only hurts for a bit.

PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 4:53 PM
it might happen soon, nayt. if i sell my car today.....i might be very tempted but i might go with the sniper's hide edition for $1,200 with rings and mount.

PistolPete75
09-27-2007, 4:55 PM
Pete- Word has it that NF is working on an FFP scope. That would be the cats meow, if pricing schemes don't change.

You're right on about getting a scope with almost all the big boy features, at a much reduced cost. Nikon tac scopes are an example of that. Same with most IOR's. Its when you want ALL the top end features (mil knobs, custom reticle, FFP, illum,etc) that it starts to get expensive. Whether or not that extra cost is worth those little upgrades, is up to the shooter.

I'm slowly beginning to take on the attitude of Zak Smith, which is this: The initial cost of the rifle and scope is the smallest investment in becoming a proficient rifleman. Just look at how much is spent in ammo, barrels, matches...not to mention the other associted costs in the overall equation. Its for that reason I chose to have a custom rifle built and to top it with an SN3. I should now never have to worry about my rifle or optic being the weak link in my shooting. For example, the class I'm leaving for this weekend. If my current rifle or scope takes a dump while I'm over there, how much did I really save by cheaping out on optics/rifle?

Buy once, cry once. It only hurts for a bit.


i will be definitely envious of your scope. i just can't get over the price tag. i can afford it, but i dont' want to spend that kind of money on a scope. it's just me. mayby next later, when i have money coming out of my ears.

rksimple
09-27-2007, 4:56 PM
it might happen soon, nayt. if i sell my car today.....i might be very tempted but i might go with the sniper's hide edition for $1,200 with rings and mount.

Do you have a line on the SH IOR's? Last I heard they were sold out of the first run. Who knows when the next batch will be in.

Cypriss32
09-27-2007, 5:02 PM
3.5-15x NF 50mm NPR2 that sums up life at this time. I can get 2 of those for the price of the USO i would like. So whats your choice? NF that model has around 125? MOA i think.

rksimple
09-27-2007, 5:06 PM
3.5-15x NF 50mm NPR2 that sums up life at this time. I can get 2 of those for the price of the USO i would like. So whats your choice? NF that model has around 125? MOA i think.

If they ever come out with their FFP version, and make the zero stop knob avaiable to the public, I might forget about the SN3. NF makes a very dependable scope.

Cypriss32
09-27-2007, 5:32 PM
LOL FFP. I ask myself the question does it make me shoot any better, I got an LRF and it works. When that doesnt work, i got a spare battery set, and then when i lost those i have an extra LRF my friend carries with batteries. If those fail, I wonder were the **** I am, how the **** I got there, why the **** im there, and how im gona get out of there. It seems allmost all of us wont be killing people, unless I join the military, (very well might happin) Then ill invest 2k in an SN3. Untill then my Mark4s, and Nikon Tacticals do the job just fine.

Timberwolf
09-27-2007, 5:37 PM
Ah but if you shoot in one of my matches and I have UKDs it won't matter how many batteries you have :whistling:

Cypriss32
09-27-2007, 5:48 PM
I think ill bring my gf to carry the LRF i think thats fair?

rksimple
09-27-2007, 7:51 PM
LOL FFP. I ask myself the question does it make me shoot any better, I got an LRF and it works. When that doesnt work, i got a spare battery set, and then when i lost those i have an extra LRF my friend carries with batteries. If those fail, I wonder were the **** I am, how the **** I got there, why the **** im there, and how im gona get out of there. It seems allmost all of us wont be killing people, unless I join the military, (very well might happin) Then ill invest 2k in an SN3. Untill then my Mark4s, and Nikon Tacticals do the job just fine.

It might not make you shoot any better. If you bang away at known distances and on single, stationary targets, SFP is just fine...in fact, maybe preferred. But ranging can be done quite well with both ffp and sfp scopes.

You neglect to realize the added benefit of accurate holdoffs at any power. This is especially useful on movers and multiple targets at different distances. If your intended use is not in a tac match environment, then SFP may be fine. But shoot a few tactical matches before you pass judgement on a tactical scope, or at least qualify your opinion.

In the end, its all a game...unless your LE or military. Some people may spend major bucks on a new exhaust system or power commander for their bike to see somewhat limited gains. Is it worth it? Not to me, but probably to them. Is a USO worth over 2g's...I'll let you know.

PistolPete75
09-28-2007, 8:20 AM
i just sold my commuter car for 3k, but i ended up giving $500 to my wife and the rest will pay most of my rifle off.

i'm still debating over buying a new scope. we'll see how my bike sale goes. that should bring in another 5k.

ryan, when are you getting your scope? i want to check that bad boy out.

wildcard
09-28-2007, 8:52 AM
i just sold my commuter car for 3k, but i ended up giving $500 to my wife and the rest will pay most of my rifle off.

i'm still debating over buying a new scope. we'll see how my bike sale goes. that should bring in another 5k.

ryan, when are you getting your scope? i want to check that bad boy out.

You got a bike? I've been meaning to get my license. First things first.. got to learn how to ride a bicycle!

rksimple
09-28-2007, 6:52 PM
Pete- I haven't even ordered it yet. Should be ordered by next paycheck.

Jason- had some bikes...since my current profession hinges on my manual dexterity, I knocked off the street riding for a while.

wildcard
09-28-2007, 7:18 PM
Pete- I haven't even ordered it yet. Should be ordered by next paycheck.

Jason- had some bikes...since my current profession hinges on my manual dexterity, I knocked off the street riding for a while.

Its just no fun when you have your priorities in order :43: I suppose being able to provide food and shelter for your family eases the pain a little though! Not to mention gun money!

Mute
09-28-2007, 7:42 PM
Jason- had some bikes...since my current profession hinges on my manual dexterity, I knocked off the street riding for a while.

I feel your pain. I miss riding a bike.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 9:17 AM
i took the plunge. i got a 10% discount from John at US Optics, and ordered an SN-3 T-Pal today. the count down has begun.

wildcard
10-02-2007, 9:20 AM
i seriously have to tighten down my spending. i would love to get the ior, but it's not in my budget. i'm holding off buying any scope right now. looks like randy is going to be done with the build in the next couple of weeks, so he's going to take a chunk out of me pretty soon. i'm almost 90% sure my mark 4 is going on it. i might get my brother's busnell 4200 scope on the 700 p which will save me alot of money. i'm also going with tps rings and mount which should save me some bucks over the badger.

i think that'll be all for the build.

mayby in the spring time, i'll end up buying a new scope. ior, us optics, or s&b. depends how business goes next year. most guys in my industry have been dying out quick, i'm lucky to be going fairly strong at this time.

anyways thanks for all the advise guy!


You sure changed your mind fast :D

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 9:24 AM
You sure changed your mind fast :D

i dreamed about the scope last night. i took it as a sign. :)

made a few modifications to my original build.

went with a 35mm tubing, mil gap recticle for hold over shooting, metric dials, and red illuminated lights.

when i get this scope, i want to just dial in for elevation, and hold over for change in windage. my custom 700 won't be shot till this scope is finished, and then all my logging will start with my new load in varget or rl15 powder.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 9:29 AM
**** Pete, you gonna make me spend more money. Gotta check my stash and see what I can sell, or just wait till tax time. I kinda want an SN3 SDSS. I'll be looking at almost $2800.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 9:30 AM
Go with RL15 so we can exchange notes :)

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 9:41 AM
i have like two pounds left of rl15. i'll save it for the new rifle.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 9:42 AM
**** Pete, you gonna make me spend more money. Gotta check my stash and see what I can sell, or just wait till tax time. I kinda want an SN3 SDSS. I'll be looking at almost $2800.


i'm just recycling my stuff. my bike is up for sale, and i'm selling my nick nacks on ebay.

i figure after this build, i will not have any excuses. it'll be all about my skill level that i would have to work on.

my 700 p tends to skip an inch at 100yards when the barrel gets real hot. i shoudn't have a problem with the new rifle.

i'm holding 1moa on the 700p. i may do less, but's infrequent and only within my first 20 shots.

wildcard
10-02-2007, 9:56 AM
i'm just recycling my stuff. my bike is up for sale, and i'm selling my nick nacks on ebay.

i figure after this build, i will not have any excuses. it'll be all about my skill level that i would have to work on.

my 700 p tends to skip an inch at 100yards when the barrel gets real hot. i shoudn't have a problem with the new rifle.

i'm holding 1moa on the 700p. i may do less, but's infrequent and only within my first 20 shots.

That shouldn't be happening.. skipping 1" at 100 yds is a lot. It may not be the rifle getting hot.. but you developing some sort of flinch after a certain round count. You should let somebody shoot some groups with your rifle to make sure its the rifle and not the shooter. Not trying to insult your skills, just the more scientific side of me talking. If its the shooter.. it won't matter what kind of equipment you have. Why work on your skill level later? Just make sure you don't have faulty equipment NOW and start improving your skills NOW :)

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 10:04 AM
ya, my 100 yard groupings go from 1/3-1moa, but typically 1moa on 90% of my groupings. i had one dud round in my 50round ammo stash last weekend, and no flinch.

there is usually 1 round that flies out of the grouping and messes up a 1/2-3/4 moa grouping.

my best groupings are done within the first 5 groupings, and then it goes to 1moa. i usually shoot 75 rounds down the barrel in two shooting sessions each lasting about 30 minutes. my barrel gets really, really hot.

my loads were previously loaded on the dillon set up which did vary oal by .05
it's think it may be the 1200 trimmer.

either case, my forester will be put to use. but i am thinking of getting the giraud trimmer for consistant trimming. my dillon 1200 trimmer after it's gets really hot sinks down .05 i think this is where my consistancy will increase in my reloading technique. each time i use the 1200 trimmer, the oal is 2.05 funny thing is, when i finish trimming down around 200 pieces of brass. it ends up going down to 2.00 the 1200 trimmer generates alot of heat, and i think it ends up sinking down just a tad. happened to me twice so far.

i guess the best technique using the 1200 trimmer is, trim 50 pieces at at time. then recheck, then do another 50. hmmm, gotta try that today. i have 350 pieces to trim today.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 10:06 AM
Something is not right there.

wildcard
10-02-2007, 10:14 AM
When you say "skip an inch" to you mean the groupings open up to an inch? Or do you means it groups an inch away from the previous groupings?

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 10:22 AM
When you say "skip an inch" to you mean the groupings open up to an inch? Or do you means it groups an inch away from the previous groupings?

l mean, I will aim at the same position with the same breathing technique and trigger pull. All the shots are touching each other, except for this one shot that will wander off from 1/2 to inch from the grouping. get's me irritated everytime. like out of a 5 shot grouping, 4 will be touching and then 1 will be off a little to the side. very typical in my 100yard groupings.

wildcard
10-02-2007, 10:28 AM
I get it now. I thought you meant you'd have entire grouping 1" apart from each other rather than shots within a grouping.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 10:31 AM
what i want to achieve in 100yard shooting is that i want all the holes to touch each other. this should make my longer distance shooting more consistant. if you can't shoot 100yard consistant, how can you shoot 800yard consistant right?

Prc329
10-02-2007, 10:31 AM
Sounds like you are yanking that last shot.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 10:36 AM
Sounds like you are yanking that last shot.

that's what i thought, but i can swear it's the same trigger pull and breathing technique. one change i've done in my shooting technique was to place the butt of the stock right on my colar bone rather than underneath it. my prone position is lower now, so i can't place it on underneath my colar bone anymore. groupings are more stablized in the center of the target rather than off to the right or left a little.

same story though, 1moa. i can't seem to hold anything under that consistantly on a hot barrel.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 10:51 AM
Try shooting off some sort of rest just to rule out you or the rifle.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 10:54 AM
Try shooting off some sort of rest just to rule out you or the rifle.

actually that is a good idea. i haven't bench rested in a long time.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 11:14 AM
Dude, I gotta go and sight in my rifle this weekend and I'll bring my front rest of you want to test her out. I plan on hitting angeles since I like there benches for sighting in.

PistolPete75
10-02-2007, 11:27 AM
angeles sounds like a good idea. i want to reconfirm my dope from 200-600yards.

what time are you planning to go there this weekend? i have a 9pm appoitment in malibu, then i can come to angeles right afterwards. if that is too later for you, it's all good. i'll use my bipod with my rear bunnyears. that'll hold well.

Prc329
10-02-2007, 11:28 AM
I'll be at Angeles at 9 and probably stay there till around 12.

DJDace
10-02-2007, 12:04 PM
I just got my IOR scope back from Colorado yesterday so I will be heading out to Angeles to sight it back in again. Randall added my Larue rails last week so I have my bipod on now as well so I am ready for some serious shooting. I'll be able to take my new SxS 12g shotgun out for a test run as well :)

Hopefully I'll see you guys there!