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View Full Version : Best way to insure justice?


-aK-
09-23-2007, 11:33 PM
I just read the dug up airport searches thread and brought up a thought.

I'll preface by saying I've considered keeping a audio recorder on me while transporting or shooting guns (I occasionally shoot out in the middle of BFE) in case I had a LE encounter go horribly wrong. Furthermore, I'm not simply anti-LE per se, in fact I've considered putting in an application, but in light of the story about the biker trying to leave the airport and of course the cop who flipped out on that guy in the commuter lot it is conceivable that it could happen.

Anyhow how likely or fair LE abuse is is not what I want this thread to be about. I want to talk about ideas on the best way to insure that the truth is upheld in the unlikely event of LE abuse OR maybe an event not involving LE at all. Think a self defense situation if you will.

That "young boy" from the commuter lot had a dash cam like camera setup which seemed effective enough but I think those are very expensive. One source of discussion. What do you think about the effectiveness and cost of this option?

Another thought is a simple taped or digital voice recorder. Seems a cheap and semi effective option. A con though would be that it would seem not to difficult for a "stormtrooper" to simply erase the recording after confiscating the device from you. Also you have voice only and not video. Thoughts?

A third option maybe to use your cellphone to call a recording device. Pro would be that it couldn't be tampered with. But a con would be that you may get much lower quality. Of course voice only could be considered a con.

Now if you're just going to say that I have my tin foil hat on too tight don't bother posting. That wouldn't be productive would it?

leelaw
09-23-2007, 11:48 PM
I guess optimally the best thing to do would not act like or be a scuzzball.

The best option would be to not have bad cops, but, sadly, they exist and only serve to tarnish the reputation of all other cops in the eyes of those quickly to judge a group by the actions of a few.

The SoCal Gunner
09-24-2007, 12:57 AM
I would say look out for a cheap camcorder. The technology is getting better and the price is going down. Figure out how to mount it in an inconspicuous location to keep the video in your control.

Some camcorders use tape and memory card or CD/DVD and memory card. Have the video record onto the memory card if the officer decides to confiscate the tape or CD/DVD. Maybe he will notice the memory card, maybe he won't.

savageevo
09-24-2007, 7:43 AM
I was thinking about usining computer cams mounted in a couple places in the car and then have a laptop connected to them. just have it start recording when you are driving and when no occurance happens just simply erase the file. I think if a company produces such a device/kit they would make lots of $.

xrMike
09-24-2007, 8:16 AM
To insure justice you need to call Geico or State Farm.

;)

Technical Ted
09-24-2007, 8:26 AM
To insure justice you need to call Geico or State Farm.

;)
No. You Sign up with these guys http://www.prepaidlegal.com/

SemiAutoSam
09-24-2007, 8:30 AM
And memory cards are getting cheaper and cheaper these days.

Bought a 2GB SD Card for 20 bucks at radio shack a few weeks ago.

I would say look out for a cheap camcorder. The technology is getting better and the price is going down. Figure out how to mount it in an inconspicuous location to keep the video in your control.

Some camcorders use tape and memory card or CD/DVD and memory card. Have the video record onto the memory card if the officer decides to confiscate the tape or CD/DVD. Maybe he will notice the memory card, maybe he won't.

xrMike
09-24-2007, 9:28 AM
Right you are Ted. I was making a funny on the use of "insure" vs. "ensure" in the thread title (which is probably only funny to another English major, and maybe not even then... ).

-aK-
09-24-2007, 10:27 AM
Ahah but, the recording device would be used as insurance that you don't get screwed. :)

SemiAutoSam
09-24-2007, 10:30 AM
Only if the one that would otherwise Screw you knows they are being recorded.



Ahah but, the recording device would be used as insurance that you don't get screwed. :)

-aK-
09-24-2007, 10:33 AM
Are you saying that the other party has to know they are being recorded in order for it to be used in a court of law?

If so, I believe that is untrue. That only applies when you have a reasonable right to privacy such as a phone call.

If not, then what are you saying?

GSequoia
09-24-2007, 10:43 AM
Actually I believe what Sam was saying is that if the person was being secretly recorded you'd still get screwed by them; you'd just have some ammo to fight back with.


Personally I wouldn't go through the trouble unless I had been consistently mistreated. There is a common misconception out there that all officers are big jerks, that's untrue. There are jerks out there but generally they are all just normal people.

Also the way you act has everything to do with how you are treated. I've been pulled over by jerks, the situation never escalated because I didn't act like a jerk toward them. Of course the flip side of that is when I'm pulled over by an officer that's fine there are no issues at all.

So just treat them with respect and don't be a dick, treat them like any other person you'd treat in a professional relationship (that's all this is really). I won't tell you that you're required to say sir and ma'am as that really depends on you, personally I never have because those words just don't roll off my tongue easily as I've never been in the practice of saying it. ;)

You can be civil, it will save you grief.

-aK-
09-24-2007, 11:02 AM
I understand what you are saying and what Leelaw said earlier. And I appreciate input. I'm not a jerk, I'm not a scumbag, and I'm not expecting this to happen.

What I am however is a person who thinks about worst case scenarios. I'm the type of person who has a small first aid kit and a fire starting device with him at most times, "just in case." The first thing I do when I enter my house is load my pistol. Not because I expect, hope, or antagonize a home invasion but because I would "rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it."

I also may open carry my pistol, unloaded, while not within 1000ft of a school. "just in case" and because I can't carry it concealed, yet. Now if I do start doing that the chances of me having a LE encounter and the possibility of LE abuse increases dramatically. Even if I am perfectly civil.

Anyone else want to help be productive in this post?

Like I said in the beginning I didn't want to talk about the reasons why or how likely something like this could happen. And a "stormtrooper" LEO is also not the only or even most likely scenario that this could come in handy. Any negative encounter with another person, be it a car accident, mistaken identity, or just the drunk neighbor, or whatever... could make a recording device come in handy.

SemiAutoSam
09-24-2007, 11:06 AM
No not at all as if your out on the street anyone could record (Rodney King) you and the cops interactions there.

What I meant by that statement was the LEO will only be intimidated if he knows your recording the interaction.

And he also might turn into a ASSHAT and attempt to take the recording device most likely depending on how much of a bad apple he is and how much you captured up to the point of his realising he is being recorded.

.



Are you saying that the other party has to know they are being recorded in order for it to be used in a court of law?

If so, I believe that is untrue. That only applies when you have a reasonable right to privacy such as a phone call.

If not, then what are you saying?

-aK-
09-24-2007, 11:15 AM
No not at all as if your out on the street anyone could record (Rodney King) you and the cops interactions there.

What I meant by that statement was the LEO will only be intimidated if he knows your recording the interaction.

And he also might turn into a ASSHAT and attempt to take the recording device most likely depending on how much of a bad apple he is and how much you captured up to the point of his realising he is being recorded.

.

Ahhh yes. and that last statement is essentially why I started the thread. To get the opinions of others regarding the effectiveness of a recording device.

So, any ideas on how to be able to record an encounter, in the interest of truth, and also protect that recording from the "bad apple?"

The only thing that I can think of right now, which seems not very feasible, is if you had a recording device that transmitted the recording to some sort of external storage, at home or vehicle perhaps.

SemiAutoSam
09-24-2007, 11:20 AM
Sure but its not portable.

A electronics store I use to frequent when I lived in the Santa Rosa area had a small PC board mount camera that only required a wire for power (12VDC) and a small coax cable to the recorder.


the lens on this camera was very small less than the diameter of a dime.

I have one mounted in the center console somewhat under the Radio in my car.

And then use a small camcorder with external inputs.

the wires routed from the camera in the glove box to the camera and microphone.



Ahhh yes. and that last statement is essentially why I started the thread. To get the opinions of others regarding the effectiveness of a recording device.

So, any ideas on how to be able to record an encounter, in the interest of truth, and also protect that recording from the "bad apple?"

The only thing that I can think of right now, which seems not very feasible, is if you had a recording device that transmitted the recording to some sort of external storage, at home or vehicle perhaps.

scottj
09-24-2007, 12:01 PM
I've seen mini-DVR's advertised for as little as $150. They typically record video and probably some record sound too. After the memory is full they overwrite the old data with new data. I was thinking about putting one in my car after the second fender bender in a week were the other party was "confused" about what had just happened. I haven't bought one yet but they are out there and should do exactly what you need. Just do a Google search for mini-dvr.

I have bought a couple different DVR's for work over the years. The fancier ones aimed at the commercial market save the data in a proprietary format that can't be hacked or photo-shopped so that the evidence would be admissible in court. So I'm not sure whether the cheaper unencrypted ones would have any standing. Does anyone have any thoughts on this aspect?

Scott