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Subvertz
09-21-2007, 1:35 PM
I am an E-6 in the Navy, newly transferred to San Diego. My buddy is holding my AR in WA until I can figure out the exact rules.
I have read all the 12276 statues, AWCA, all the court cases, and I'm still unclear on a few things. Hope ya'll can help.
I bought my AR from a local shop in SC. I believe it started out as a DPMS Panther A-15, but they sold it to me as a DPMS "Jungle Wolf". http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1700/1760.html
I don't have a stock gun as comparison, so I am unaware what specific changes were made.
1. I guess my question is…what level of change and renaming would render my lower different that the one on the OLL?
2. Would a local shop renaming it absolve me of not knowing it was originally on the list?
3. DPMS doesn't have my specific configuration on there web page…could I claim it was special, therefore not listed?
4. Does the "Panther (All)" on the list mean I am included?
5. Does my active military status grant me any privileges? (I don't use guns in the line of duty (Submarine Nuke Electrician))
6. I understand the fixed mag workaround, can I have my buddy snail mail me my lower if it is legit?

Thanks for all your help guys!

want_ar
09-21-2007, 1:42 PM
There is no such thing as an OLL list. It is either on AW list or it's not. If the AW list says all Panthers are on the list, you are out of luck. Your gun is an AW and it's registration period has expired. So you cannot bring it into the state. You cannot just rename it to what you want. The manufacturer named it when they manufactured it

Your military status does not grant you any special exemptions.

Perhaps people better versed in the laws can correct me.

pnkssbtz
09-21-2007, 1:46 PM
If your firearm is not on the Kassler list, and is not banned by Make AND Model, AND your weapon doesn't violate SB23, it is legal to bring into the state. However any magazines with greater than 10 round capacity are not allowed in the state.


I believe US Armed forces personnel, whom place of residence reside outside of california, can fill out a form (with their base commander's approval) to bring an AW into the state and legally register it. (IIRC)


There are some more requirements that have to be satisfied but I know its possible for out-of-state armed forces personnel transferring to CA.


I am sure one of many Veterans here could chime in with further info.

SemiAutoSam
09-21-2007, 1:47 PM
Sorry to correct but there is a OLL list.

Here is the link. I took off the AK series that are on the list at the link as it seemed you were talking about an AR.

If you didnt also look at the Kasler list here it is.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf


http://home.comcast.net/~bartelt1508/OLL-LIST.pdf



The California OFF-List Guide
AR-15 Series Weapons
ALEXANDER ARMS *
.50 BEOWOLF
6.5 GRENDEL
AMEETEC ARMS
WM-15
AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
ASA-10
ARES DEFENSE SYSTEMS, INC. *
ARES-16
BARRETT *
M468
BUSHMASTER
CARBON 15
J-15
BAR-10
CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
CENTURY ARMS *
C-15
CMMG
MOD4-SA
COLT *
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
CARBINE
COMPASS LAKE ENGINEERING
MR-15
DALPHON
DANIEL DEFENSE
DD-15
DOUBLESTAR
STAR-15
DPMS
SINGLE SHOT
LR-308
A-15
DSARMS
ZM4
ESSENTIAL ARMS
J-15-F
FRANKFORD ARSENAL
XM-177
FAR-15
FULTON ARMORY
FAR-15
GLOBAL TACTICAL
GT-AR15
GRENADIER PRECISION
M4 A3
M4 COMMANDO
M4 SOC
GUNSMOKE ENTERPRISES
M-15 MATCH
HESSE ARMS
HAR-25
HIGH STANDARD
HSA-15
JP ENTERPRISES, INC. *
JP-15
CTR-02
LAR MANUFACTURING
GRIZZLY-15
LAUER CUSTOM WEAPONRY
LCW-15
LEITNER-WISE *
LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL *
DEFENDER 2000
LRB INDUSTRIES, LLC
M15SA
MEGA MACHINE SHOP
GATOR
MGI
NOVESKE
N4
PATRIOT ORDINANCE FACTORY
P-415
P-416
RATWORX
M-7
ROCK RIVER ARMS
LAR-15
SABRE DEFENSE
X16/15A3
XR-15
SMITH AND WESSON *
M&P-15
M&P-15T
SOCOM MANUFACTURING
DIAMOND
BLACK DIAMOND
SPECIAL WEAPONS
AR47
SPIKE’S TACTICAL
ST15
STINGER ARMS
STAG ARMS
STAG-15
STAG-6.8
SUN DEVIL
SD15
SUPERIOR ARMS
S-15
TITUSVILLE ARMORY
TA-15
TROY INDUSTRIES INC. *
CQB-SPC
VULCAN ARMS
V-15
CAL1
WILSON TACTICAL LLC.
WT-15
ZM WEAPONS *
LR300
TOTAL RECORDS: 114
*Stripped lowers not available without purchase of complete lower or rifle
PLEASE CONTACT XENOPHOBE AT THE CALGUNS.NET MESSAGE BOARD IF ANY PARTICULAR OFF-LIST
RECEIVER IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS LIST, OR IF A MODEL IS INCORRECTLY NAMED.
AK-47 SERIES WEAPONS COMPILED BY 69MACH1 AT CALGUNS.NET. ALL AK-47 ADDITIONS OR CORRECTIONS
SHOULD BE SENT TO HIM.
© xenophobe. THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED IN ORIGINAL, UNMODIFIED FORM ONLY. OLLLIST.
PDF



There is no such thing as an OLL list. It is either on AW list or it's not. If the AW list says all Panthers are on the list, you are out of luck. Your gun is an AW and it's registration period has expired. So you cannot bring it into the state. You cannot just rename it to what you want. The manufacturer named it when they manufactured it

Perhaps people better versed in the laws can correct me.

want_ar
09-21-2007, 1:52 PM
Sorry to correct but there is a OLL list.


Ah, sorry. I didn't know about this. I thought he meant the AW/Kasler list as written in the law. Didn't know there was an OLL list maintained by gun owners.

kermit315
09-21-2007, 2:08 PM
yes, there is a way to register for military people. i will try to dig up the POC at DOJ/BOF. email that guy and he will send you the info you need to bring your pretty in the state. i think it is like a 125 dollar reg fee and 25 yearly after that or something.

Edit to add: Whats your Rate?

AT2(AW)

pnkssbtz
09-21-2007, 2:09 PM
The OLL list is not an official .gov list.


The only offical .gov list is for BANNED weapons (i.e. Kasler)


However, Xeno's OLL list is basically the stuff not on the Kasler list, so its good to use as a guide =)

Subvertz
09-21-2007, 2:18 PM
OK, my lower is on the banned list AND the OLL?
Kermit315, I am an EM1(SS), former Seawolf sailor

kermit315
09-21-2007, 2:28 PM
glad to have you here. here is what i got from a Devil Dog over on THR.

Originally Posted by kermit315
Hey man, I have a question. You posted this: If you are in the military and stationed in CA:
Howdy folks. My application just came in. If you are in the military and stationed in CA, you can get a California out of State Military Assault Weapons Permit. It's a $78 fee good for 1 year and a $25 renewal fee for every subsequent year. The only stipulation is that you have to own these weapons already and can't register any new weapons once you get the permit. I left the application at my desk at work so I can't give you the Point of Contact, but this is my last (and first) post of the night before I hit the rack, so either PM me and I'll hit you up tomorrow or just stand by and I'll post a reply with the email address when I get to work.

Semper Fi.


When you posted this you mentioned an application, but only listed a POC for DOJ. Can you walk me through exactly what is necessary to get my AR from Illinois legal for cali?

Thanks,

Jamie.
Well, I'm assuming you're stationed out here. Well, as long as you have that guy send you the application and you'll put down the rifle's serial number, manufacturer's number and all of those goodies. You'll need 2 sets of fingerprints, a copy of your origional orders, and there's also some other info you'll have to fill out but that's all in the package. If you email that POC, he'll give you the whole package.

The KEY thing to remember is once you fill this out, you CANNOT add any other weapons to the permit. The other KEY thing to remember is that you still have to comply with the 10 round magazine max under CA law.

the poc email is Brent George


Brent.George@doj.ca.gov

Subvertz
09-21-2007, 2:39 PM
Hey I appreiciate that, and I'll try the military route.
I'd still like to know if there is a level of customization or modification that can render a lower different than one straight from the manufacturer, in the eyes of the law.

bwiese
09-21-2007, 2:42 PM
Subvertz...

AWs are banned in CA in two ways - by make/model combination, or by configured features suite.

Firstly, your receiver is likely marked both "DPMS" and "Panther" or "Panther Arms".

The Kasler list (11 CCR 5499) lists "DPMS Panther (all)" as banned, so regardless of configured features suite, you could not bring it into CA under ordinary circumstances. [There is a very small subset of older, likely cast, DPMS receivers without 'Panther' markings and these receivers are legal.]
There is a substantial question of whether "(all)" creates a new subseries - causing another legal issue that's possibly defendable - but it's easier just to get another receiver. (More below.)

However, CA DOJ does issue 'MAWP' documents - 'Military Assault Weapons Permit' - for active duty military personnel stationed here, for the duration of their duty here. If you separate/retire from your service while here, the permit is invalid and you'd need to move your AW outside CA before that happens (otherwise you'd illegally possess an unreg'd assault weapon).

File for the MAWP *before* you bring in (or have shipped in) your rifle. Contact Calif DOJ Bureau of Firearms' Assault Weapon Registration and Special Weapon Permits at (916) 263-8100 [fax: (916) 263-0790] for forms and further details.

Also - regardless of what DOJ BoF clerk says, I see no legal support for an AW permit such as an MAWP discussed here, allowing importation of hicap magazines.

Now, if your receiver were not a Colt AR-15 and was not on the list of formally-identified AR "series" members (remember, it's not a series member unless/until it's on this "Kasler" list, 11 CCR 5499) then it's an "off-list" receiver.

You could build an off-list receiver up (using the rest of your rifle parts!) into a legal, working rifle that is not an AW by either using a 10-round or less fixed magazine, or using special grips or stocks that don't count as the formally-defined (11 CCR 5469) 'pistol grip...' or 'thumbhole stock'.

See http://www.monstermangrip.com
and http://www.californiarifles.com

Both of these latter solutions allow the use of detachable magazines. While perhaps slightly odd in appearance to some, these are actually quite ergonomic!

Subvertz
09-21-2007, 2:52 PM
You guys are awesome with the help.
I wish I had access the rifle to see if it actually has "Panther" marks.
It's been so long since I've seen my baby :(
Lets say I found out it doesn't say panther, bring it in assuming its an OLL.
If I get in trouble, how do they determine the model exactly?
Is it markings only, or do they have a list of serials from each manufacturer?

I think I understand all the mag release and pistol grip workarounds.

BWIESE, I read your memorandum. I was actually surprised I could follow all the legalspeak.

SemiAutoSam
09-21-2007, 2:54 PM
You could always take everything BUT the receiver and pick up a receiver here.

I have purchased then for 100.00 Plus DROS (Dealers Record Of Sale).

Subvertz
09-21-2007, 3:00 PM
If you look at my link, you'll see the custom camo job. I'd really rather not have to get a new lower.

bwiese
09-21-2007, 3:10 PM
Lets say I found out it doesn't say panther, bring it in assuming its an OLL.
If I get in trouble, how do they determine the model exactly?

'Make and model' is what it is: the combination.

"Colt AR15" is banned. (Well, kinda not but that's a separate story.)
"Bushmaster XM15" is banned too.

By contrast, a "Colt XM15" or a "Bushmaster AR15" would not be listed as banned.

"DPMS" alone is not enough to ban it. Let's say you had a "DPMS Siamese" instead of "Panther": it's not listed so it's not banned.

Don't bring it in if it says "Panther".

Is it markings only, or do they have a list of serials from each manufacturer?

Serial#s are moot. Make and model is what's on the receiver.


I think I understand all the mag release and pistol grip workarounds.


Good, but make sure and double check w/us with your intended configuration. If it turns out your rifle is truly 'off-list', still bring it in in separated 'parts' and reassemble into compliant form and d.

Remember
(1) fixed magazines must hold only 10 rounds.
(2) rifles using a detachable magazine can't have 'evil features', incl. a flash hider.

Subvertz
09-21-2007, 3:17 PM
Can you post which penal code or CA laws govern the 'Military Assault Weapons Permit'. I can't find it on AG's site, and the BoF guy didn't reply to my email right away.

I will be sure to check my intended setup with you guys before importing. I'll know as soon as I can get a look at my gun!

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-21-2007, 3:21 PM
"Colt AR15" is banned. (Well, kinda not but that's a separate story.)

Any updates on this story?

SemiAutoSam
09-21-2007, 3:32 PM
COLT *
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=762395&postcount=4
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/colt3nj.jpg
Any updates on this story?

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-21-2007, 3:43 PM
COLT *
CAR-A3 H-BAR ELITE
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=762395&postcount=4
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/colt3nj.jpg

SemiAutoSam, thanks for the link. I am aware that particular lower is legal in california. Unfortunately its hard to find anyone willing to part with just the lower, and even harder to find one that doesn't have the big ugly pin above the safety. (Apparently put there to prevent people from drilling a hole to add a full auto fire control group.)

There was a discussion a few months back relating to the possible legality of listed lower receivers (Colt AR-15) if configured properly. I was just wondering if bwiese had any further information.

bwiese
09-21-2007, 3:57 PM
Any updates on this story?

No.

It's been known for some time that Colt has never really sold an "AR-15" except maybe early production. Colt does not use this as a model # - if you were a distributor and called Colt to order a batch of "AR-15s" you'd get a puzzled reply - which one do you want?

Even the terms "Match Target" and "Sporter Target" have similar flaws: all have so many derivatives they are not models but are, in fact 'series' in and of themselves.

Should Harrott apply only to a top level models, or will we need Son of Harrott to clarify subseries?

Colt refers to their models as, for example, Model 601, R6000, R6600, MT6430, MT7400, LE1020, LE6921, etc.

Iggy really screwed the pooch with his approval Evan's Gunsmithing/GB Sales' welded-up Colts. As a side effect, (not 100% sure) there was talk that Evan's/GB's welded-up Colt rifles marked Colt Match Targets aren't really banned by name because that model was an MT6400 or MT6700. Apparently so DOJ could cover its *** Evan's was or is getting a mfgr's permit to re-mark these as "Evan's Colts" and "Evan's Bushmasters"; Iggy's original approval of these led to a half-day meeting in how to resolve the legality. (Owner's of Evan's guns are fairly well protected from legal issues.)

Possession of a many 'named' Colt guns not having SB23-defined features suites is thus, in fact, defendable. (It ain't recommended, however, given the grief level/risk - and the availablity of numerous equiavlent off-list alternatives.)

Possession of a listed receiver is defendable (again, not recommended!) as the laws ban 'named' functional semiautomatic *firearms* and not receivers. [This was discussed in legislative analysis of AB2728 last year after gut-and-amend changed it from a gun dealer bill to one trying to control off-list receivers.]

bwiese
09-21-2007, 3:59 PM
There was a discussion a few months back relating to the possible legality of listed lower receivers (Colt AR-15) if configured properly. I was just wondering if bwiese had any further information.

No, that's not quite it. That could get you in big trouble.

As said above, possession of a *listed receiver* is not the same as that of a *listed rifle|pistol*. The former is defendable; the latter not so, regardless of features and the distinction is the receiver doesn't have the ability to fire, nor is there any semiauto vs manual-cycled status available from the reciever alone.

IN NO WAY IS THIS AT ALL A RECOMMENDATION. It's merely saying that certain such situations involving named *receivers* have a valid defense. So DON'T DO IT.

carsonwales
09-21-2007, 5:01 PM
Sorry to correct but there is a OLL list.


TOTAL RECORDS: 114
*Stripped lowers not available without purchase of complete lower or rifle
PLEASE CONTACT XENOPHOBE AT THE CALGUNS.NET MESSAGE BOARD IF ANY PARTICULAR OFF-LIST
RECEIVER IS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS LIST, OR IF A MODEL IS INCORRECTLY NAMED.
AK-47 SERIES WEAPONS COMPILED BY 69MACH1 AT CALGUNS.NET. ALL AK-47 ADDITIONS OR CORRECTIONS
SHOULD BE SENT TO HIM.
© xenophobe. THIS DOCUMENT MAY BE FREELY DISTRIBUTED IN ORIGINAL, UNMODIFIED FORM ONLY. OLLLIST.
PDF

I sent PM to xenophobe....

Sabre Defence ALL are not 'listed' and hence should be in the OLL list.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-21-2007, 5:04 PM
No.

It's been known for some time that Colt has never really sold an "AR-15" except maybe early production. Colt does not use this as a model # - if you were a distributor and called Colt to order a batch of "AR-15s" you'd get a puzzled reply - which one do you want?

Even the terms "Match Target" and "Sporter Target" have similar flaws: all have so many derivatives they are not models but are, in fact 'series' in and of themselves.

Should Harrott apply only to a top level models, or will we need Son of Harrott to clarify subseries?

Colt refers to their models as, for example, Model 601, R6000, R6600, MT6430, MT7400, LE1020, LE6921, etc.

Iggy really screwed the pooch with his approval Evan's Gunsmithing/GB Sales' welded-up Colts. As a side effect, (not 100% sure) there was talk that Evan's/GB's welded-up Colt rifles marked Colt Match Targets aren't really banned by name because that model was an MT6400 or MT6700. Apparently so DOJ could cover its *** Evan's was or is getting a mfgr's permit to re-mark these as "Evan's Colts" and "Evan's Bushmasters"; Iggy's original approval of these led to a half-day meeting in how to resolve the legality. (Owner's of Evan's guns are fairly well protected from legal issues.)

Possession of a many 'named' Colt guns not having SB23-defined features suites is thus, in fact, defendable. (It ain't recommended, however, given the grief level/risk - and the availablity of numerous equiavlent off-list alternatives.)

Possession of a listed receiver is defendable (again, not recommended!) as the laws ban 'named' functional semiautomatic *firearms* and not receivers. [This was discussed in legislative analysis of AB2728 last year after gut-and-amend changed it from a gun dealer bill to one trying to control off-list receivers.]

Thanks Bill. I wasn't sure if I missed anything from the earlier thread.

I hope I am following you correctly, but it seems that Kassler lists the Colt series and just about everything else as a complete rifle model number rather than the receiver itself. I completely understand your advise to side with caution for obvious reasons, especially receivers marked with "Colt AR-15" because of how specific it is. When it comes to the LE6920 there seems like a lot of open holes.

If a Colts Law Enforcement LE6920 rifle is marked "Colt's Law Enforcement" on the receiver but does not have "LE6920" on the receiver then it is listed as a complete rifle only and not on the receiver level. The "Colt's Law Enforcement" marked receivers can be used on any number of Colt model rifles.

Example of 6920 markings
http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/6920_Rec.JPG
Example of 6921 markings
http://www.speakeasy.org/~camaross/Misc/6921_Rec.JPG

The only different between a Colt 6920 and a Rock River CAR-A2 is the fact that we know the Rock River receiver has its own model number (LAR-15). When I buy a Rock River receiver I'm buying an LAR-15 not a CAR-A2.

If I don't buy a complete 6920, what do I end up with? What model number would an FFL use? How do I know if I'm buying is a listed Colt receiver if it doesn't have LE6920 anywhere on it? These are obvious rhetorical questions and the reason why the Harrott decision is so important.

Are there any Colt enthusiasts out there that know if Colt has a seperate model number for their receivers?

bwiese
09-21-2007, 5:23 PM
AYEARFIFTEEN,

Please be careful.

I see no need to have any marginally questionable Colt receiver when an error can cost you $25K and risk.

Go get a Stag.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-21-2007, 5:56 PM
AYEARFIFTEEN,

Please be careful.

Always, and thanks.

I see no need to have any marginally questionable Colt receiver when an error can cost you $25K and risk.

Go get a Stag.

It certainly isn't worth $25K, but that Colt always feels like its the one that got away.

Apparently you are not a fan of the Colt receivers. ;)

Subvertz
09-22-2007, 9:49 AM
My Email to Brent George returned undeliverable. I think that email address is no longer valid. I will try Bwiese's phone numbers on Monday.

SemiAutoSam
09-22-2007, 10:01 AM
I found one on the Fal Files a while ago (08-29-2007) but when these things pop up you have to strike fast as they do not last.

You could always contact the buyer and make him an offer.

This is the profile of the buyer.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=5046

I alerted the CGN membership about it here.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=730338#post730338

Here is the actual thread on the falfiles.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211159

SemiAutoSam, thanks for the link. I am aware that particular lower is legal in California. Unfortunately its hard to find anyone willing to part with just the lower, and even harder to find one that doesn't have the big ugly pin above the safety. (Apparently put there to prevent people from drilling a hole to add a full auto fire control group.)

There was a discussion a few months back relating to the possible legality of listed lower receivers (Colt AR-15) if configured properly. I was just wondering if bwiese had any further information.

Subvertz
09-22-2007, 11:29 AM
Well, I'm gonna see how the Military AW Permit works out, but I'm thinking my lower is gonna be OK anyway. Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.:)

bwiese
09-22-2007, 12:45 PM
Well, I'm gonna see how the Military AW Permit works out, but I'm thinking my lower is gonna be OK anyway. Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.:)

Be careful. Statistically it's unlikely that you have a DPMS *non*-Panther lower, there are not nearly as many of those (from later 90s) as there are ones marked "Panther Arms".

If you get an MAWP from Calif DOJ, this issue is moot.

But the MAWP in effect requires you to remove a 'named' rifle from state before you separate service, and if you decide to remain in CA you can't have it.

Subvertz
09-22-2007, 2:51 PM
Update: It is not marked "Panther"! So I need to order my mag lock now before importing right?
Also, what is the best way to ship it? Snail mail it 3 boxes(Upper, stripped lower, parts) or go through a dealer?
Still gonna try the MAWP, but when I seperate in 3 years, I'll be moving to Norway (wifes family), not staying in CA...

SemiAutoSam
09-22-2007, 3:00 PM
I happen to manufacture a stainless steel MAG-LOCK if you want one of mine here is the thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41634

You can check out pics of the MAG-LOCK and if it fits your needs send me a PM or e mail.

ttyl
Sam

Update: It is not marked "Panther"! So I need to order my mag lock now before importing right?
Also, what is the best way to ship it. Snail mail it 3 boxes(Upper, stripped lower, parts) or go through a dealer?
Still gonna try the MAWP, but when I separate in 3 years, I'll be moving to Norway (wife's family), not staying in CA...

Subvertz
09-24-2007, 11:20 AM
So, I've been calling BoF all morning, leaving voicemails...
Lana Garcia has not picked up. Is there somewhere I can print off the MAWP from online? I'm itching to get started. :shrug:

bwiese
09-24-2007, 11:47 AM
So, I've been calling BoF all morning, leaving voicemails...
Lana Garcia has not picked up. Is there somewhere I can print off the MAWP from online? I'm itching to get started. :shrug:

Don't think MAWP permits are online. Actually anyone at the Special Weapons Permit desk should be able to send out the form - I believe Lana is the one that processes them.

It's good that there's no 'Panther' marking on your DPMS. (Fairly rare.)

Stripped receivers not banned by name can be imported to CA. Also this means you could - using a variety of configurations not banned in law - bring in your gun or receiver without an MAWP provided it has either a fixed magazine - or you use a MonsterMan grip or U15 stock and have no flash hider or other 12276.1PC evil features and can have detachable magazines.
[DO *NOT* USE A Prince50, Bullet-Button or other brand of magazine lock WITH A HICAP MAG, AND DO NOT BRING IN HICAP MAGS TO CA!]

Subvertz
09-24-2007, 12:45 PM
I spoke with Yvonne, Lana Garcia's supervisor.
She is not at work today.
Lana is the only person in the State that can send out the application.
She said they are trying to fix this issue. (Not holding my breath)

I'm leaning toward the BB until my MAWP goes through.
A featureless build just takes away so many flavors, and I usually don't need more than 10 shots at any one time.

shonc99
09-24-2007, 2:01 PM
I am in the Navy, have a MAWP and know the process.

PM me and I will respond with more detail.

Basic process,
1. Call Yolanda and get application
2. Fill out application listing make, model, serial #'s and caliber(s)
3. have Pass and Decal office do the included fingerprint cards.
4. mail application, fingerprint cards, $78 check or MO and copy of orders back to Yolanda.
5. Get permit (letter) back and enjoy.

You obviously should register all listed firearms, as well as any that could be AW's by way of SB23 'evil' features- like a Ruger Mini-14. This allows you the ability to add those features later if you want. Also, while Lauer, Stag, etc. aren't listed under Kasler, you should include them anyway as then you can have them here un-nutered.

:D

shonc99
09-24-2007, 2:03 PM
Also, please do not send back the application until we have talked. Since I just renewed for the year, I know some very helpful hints.

Subvertz
09-25-2007, 9:19 AM
Just spoke with Yolanda at BoF.
My application is inbound.
I told her that my rifle was in storage, and I don't know the serial # of hand.
I asked her if it was OK to just put down the make/ model.
She said that was OK, she would call for S#'s after the fact.
So it sounds like I could say I own guns that I might want in the future, and just give the numbers when I actually get around to buying them?

bwiese
09-25-2007, 9:39 AM
So it sounds like I could say I own guns that I might want in the future, and just give the numbers when I actually get around to buying them?

Hmm, that is edgy.

CA residents can't buy guns in another state w/o going thru a CA FFL. (Question is, does your mil ID allow you to do that?) And most CA FFLs can't transfer AWs.

Also, this in essence gives you a permit to bring in AWs as they are, not manufacture them inside CA.

For future reference I would not broadcast your ideas further on this. You're pretty easy to identify, and in case you don't know DOJ watches this board.

Subvertz
09-25-2007, 9:46 AM
Yeah, I got that. It wasn't an attempt to be illegal.
Just point out yet another fuzzy area in Kali gun laws...