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View Full Version : Is living off the Grid now a crime? In LA County it is.


ewarmour
02-04-2013, 8:05 AM
Apparently living off the grid, off the land, and without government assistance is now a crime that can land you in jail, and cause you to lose your home.

http://offgridsurvival.com/livingoffthegridcrime/

One step closer to utopia.

njineermike
02-04-2013, 8:37 AM
A lot of :TFH: there, but they do point to a disturbing set of precedents.

ENTHUSIAST
02-04-2013, 9:17 AM
That is horrible what they are doing to those people.

The system hates people who do not need it to survive.

Tyrants fear Free men, thus they seek to oppress them.

kb58
02-04-2013, 9:42 AM
It's far more likely intended for homeless people setting up home in canyons or alleyways than any sort of conspiracy against preppers.

Ninety
02-04-2013, 9:52 AM
I think it is pretty scary... I would be pissed.. I would love to own some land like that and live off the land... First thing I would do is build a big *** wall around my property.

Makes sense that the gov wants the land for future development ..

mvpatriot
02-04-2013, 9:59 AM
A lot of :TFH: there, but they do point to a disturbing set of precedents.

sorry no fud there, disgusting story indeed

cdtx2001
02-04-2013, 10:25 AM
Am I now on some sort of special gooberment list now that I clicked on that link?

ENTHUSIAST
02-04-2013, 10:31 AM
It's far more likely intended for homeless people setting up home in canyons or alleyways than any sort of conspiracy against preppers.

Did you watch the videos? The people own the land and LA is using all kinds of zoning laws to kick them off their OWN land.

First they used small stuff like brush clearing then after they complied they kept coming back with more and more zoning violations and eventually flat out told them they want them to remove everything from their property.

BLC
02-04-2013, 11:32 AM
Am I now on some sort of special gooberment list now that I clicked on that link?

I am sure you clicked on a link a LONG time ago that landed you on some sort of watch list.

the86d
02-04-2013, 12:46 PM
I remember seeing something similar about a year ago...

It's sad really...

KevinB
02-04-2013, 12:59 PM
Load of crap. My house is capable of off grid with a throw of a switch. They are not after me. Then again, I did mine with the proper permits and up to code.

The reason those people are off grid is they won't hook them up.

I admire their individualism and thrifty.

Ocbc
02-04-2013, 1:08 PM
Wow! This is beyond scary! The phonehenge guy actually being put in jail for building his own home. Disgusted!

kb58
02-04-2013, 2:00 PM
Wow! This is beyond scary! The phonehenge guy actually being put in jail for building his own home. Disgusted!

I'd bet money that it was probably due to building without permits or worse, not building to code. Say what you want about permit costs but building codes are there for very good and wise engineering reasons. I don't know whether the above is true but know that cops don't arrest for building homes without something else going on.

ewarmour
02-04-2013, 5:29 PM
Makes sense that the gov wants the land for future development ..

I think this ^. I think there is going to be some development going on.

Get them out, buy up property, profit.

ElvenSoul
02-04-2013, 5:39 PM
But if they where living downtown LA in a cardboard box it would be ok :(

mvpatriot
02-04-2013, 5:52 PM
But if they where living downtown LA in a cardboard box it would be ok :(

sad but true. they will even give you entitlements and encourage you to suck on thy teet. call me on your obamaphone if you disagree :)

problemchild
02-04-2013, 6:34 PM
That is horrible what they are doing to those people.

The system hates people who do not need it to survive.

Tyrants fear Free men, thus they seek to oppress them.

That should be a bumper sticker.

problemchild
02-04-2013, 6:35 PM
But if they where living downtown LA in a cardboard box it would be ok :(

Or if they squat in my neighbors foreclosed home because OBOZO cost him his job and he couldnt make his house payments, its OK.

Cali-Glock
02-04-2013, 7:33 PM
Did you watch the videos? The people own the land and LA is using all kinds of zoning laws to kick them off their OWN land.

First they used small stuff like brush clearing then after they complied they kept coming back with more and more zoning violations and eventually flat out told them they want them to remove everything from their property.

They have been doing this for a couple of years. This is nuts! We are talking about people in the middle of the desert. It is why they live there; to be left alone!

BottomsUP
02-04-2013, 10:40 PM
What a wreck. America (California) has become so sought after laws and regulations that can produce revenue for the local and state governments that people cant even be people anymore. People are what drive this country, High, Middle or low class, does not matter. Everyone has a right to live/survive they way they please. This is the first I am hearing about this and I am sick.

wpage
02-05-2013, 1:47 AM
Its a shame.

burr2of4
02-05-2013, 3:10 AM
I didnt need to hear this sh*t today

jbohon
02-05-2013, 10:15 AM
That is horrible what they are doing to those people.

The system hates people who do not need it to survive.

Tyrants fear Free men, thus they seek to oppress them.

"Tyrants fear Free men"

I had to make this into a sticker for my truck. Very well put.

ROTC sniper
02-06-2013, 9:11 PM
I'd bet money that it was probably due to building without permits or worse, not building to code. Say what you want about permit costs but building codes are there for very good and wise engineering reasons. I don't know whether the above is true but know that cops don't arrest for building homes without something else going on.

Seriously guys...this is the reason why. There are building codes and standards that need to be met. Take the situation/people/building out of the desert and say they tried to build their house without proper building techniques in the middle of a populated city...it would be no different. Code enforcement would come down and issue a cease and desist order then tell them to stop building / inhabiting their homes. Now I'm not saying that some if not many permit fees/government agencies are a waste of money and time but for the most part in the building arena, (and I have a lot of experience in construction), it's usually good to have inspectors looking over things.

Look at what happens in 3rd world countries that do not have standard building codes and people are free to build whatever they want with whatever materials they want. Massive catastrophies. Then when issues do happen, i.e. buildings collapse, people get hurt, they expect the government to rescue them...much worse they sue because people are entitled and expect other people to be responsible for the **** they themselves started/created.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet or the so called news that's put out there to stir up people...

wood carver
02-08-2013, 8:58 PM
I'd bet money that it was probably due to building without permits or worse, not building to code. Say what you want about permit costs but building codes are there for very good and wise engineering reasons. I don't know whether the above is true but know that cops don't arrest for building homes without something else going on.

I suppose you believe everything your government tells you, and that they are there for your well-being. :facepalm:

OIFVet03
02-08-2013, 9:55 PM
If it is a crime in that area, then those people should be removed from office. That's my opinion. I would leave that area and then try to fix it. Obviously you can't live off the grid in a neighborhood but you can practice the skills.

kb58
02-09-2013, 7:48 AM
I suppose you believe everything your government tells you, and that they are there for your well-being. :facepalm:
And supposition frequently gets substituted for fact on survivalist sites. :facepalm:

FatalKitty
02-10-2013, 6:35 PM
I'd bet money that it was probably due to building without permits or worse, not building to code. Say what you want about permit costs but building codes are there for very good and wise engineering reasons. I don't know whether the above is true but know that cops don't arrest for building homes without something else going on.

so ****ing WHAT?
if the house is not built to code: WHAT IS THE DAMAGE?

I should be free to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.. because the ONLY risk I am taking is with MY OWN LIFE and the government has no place there.

same with my OWN ****ING HOUSE. if I want to sell it to someone else, then that is a different story. if the house is built unsafe, and collapses on me, then that's my problem. if it collapses on someone else, WELL THEN we see a crime has been committed.


arresting people for victimless crimes is NOT what America is. IT'S NOT

Mullins
02-10-2013, 6:52 PM
so ****ing WHAT?
if the house is not built to code: WHAT IS THE DAMAGE?

I should be free to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.. because the ONLY risk I am taking is with MY OWN LIFE and the government has no place there.

same with my OWN ****ING HOUSE. if I want to sell it to someone else, then that is a different story. if the house is built unsafe, and collapses on me, then that's my problem. if it collapses on someone else, WELL THEN we see a crime has been committed.


arresting people for victimless crimes is NOT what America is. IT'S NOT


^^^This Exactly, I understand the the building codes are there for safety reasons but it disbanded but of an over reach by our government

Mullins
02-10-2013, 6:55 PM
Dam autocorrect, but it is a bit of an overreach by out government.

bohoki
02-10-2013, 7:24 PM
its sad, but structures have to be to code maybe they should have trailers and motorhomes

kb58
02-11-2013, 5:44 AM
so ****ing WHAT? If the house is not built to code: WHAT IS THE DAMAGE?

I should be free to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.. because the ONLY risk I am taking is with MY OWN LIFE and the government has no place there.

same with my OWN ****ING HOUSE. if I want to sell it to someone else, then that is a different story. if the house is built unsafe, and collapses on me, then that's my problem.
That's fine, if you can pay the health costs, otherwise it's just entitlement disguised as freedom. There are a lot of people who feel they should be allowed to do whatever they want but won't accept the responsitibility that comes with it, thinking nothing of you and I paying for the consequences of their "freedom."

zombiescanlearn
02-11-2013, 6:25 AM
Seriously guys...this is the reason why. There are building codes and standards that need to be met. Take the situation/people/building out of the desert and say they tried to build their house without proper building techniques in the middle of a populated city...it would be no different. Code enforcement would come down and issue a cease and desist order then tell them to stop building / inhabiting their homes. Now I'm not saying that some if not many permit fees/government agencies are a waste of money and time but for the most part in the building arena, (and I have a lot of experience in construction), it's usually good to have inspectors looking over things.

Look at what happens in 3rd world countries that do not have standard building codes and people are free to build whatever they want with whatever materials they want. Massive catastrophies. Then when issues do happen, i.e. buildings collapse, people get hurt, they expect the government to rescue them...much worse they sue because people are entitled and expect other people to be responsible for the **** they themselves started/created.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet or the so called news that's put out there to stir up people...

+1,000. Seriously everyone, get permits and you'll be fine.

kb58
02-11-2013, 6:43 AM
No, they want the freedom to do whatever they want, with you and me paying their medical bills - since they also believe that they shouldn't be forced to have coverage...

Jeepers
02-11-2013, 7:16 AM
+1,000. Seriously everyone, get permits and you'll be fine.
permits? we dont need no stinking permits!!! who cares if my makeshift septic is draining strait into the ground water ? who care if i dump used oil on my property ? who cares if i make my house out of old pallets and glass beer bottles and we have a quake ? ... come on now its WWOL already isnt it ? i sure hope so or i wasted a bunch of $ on my newest mad max rig ...

/sarcasm .....

Paltik
02-11-2013, 7:17 AM
Believe it or not, many people are able to conceive of individual liberty in a way that does not force others to pay for their medical care. There are people who wish the medical system would leave them alone and let them die in dignified peace. Lots of people do make the connection between personal freedom and personal responsibility.

bodger
02-11-2013, 7:51 AM
And yet, there is an non-profit organization called "TreePeople" in Coldwater Canyon Park in Los Angeles (Coldwater and Mulholland) that has been granted the use of the park and over the past 25 years or so, has built numerous illegal, unpermitted structures, replete with plumbing and electrical service, none of which was permitted or insepcted.

The offices of this organization are a series of seven "yurts", for which TreePeople was granted a temporary certificate of occupancy, good for 18 months. This expired over 8 years ago and since then, there have been un-inspected and unpermitted structures added to the compound. No proper access for wheelchairs exists, not even the required signage and parking spaces.

This goes unchecked and un -enforced because the politicians who support this non-profit organization love to have their picture taken with the directors of TreePeople. It makes for good press and gives the politicos the "green" look.

Anyone own a home near this park? "Green" could turn to charred black if one of the 200 amp service panels up there installed by Bubba and never inspected happens to light up and catch the canyon on fire. Also, there is a man living in one of the yurts whose "gray water" dumps directly into a ravine about 40 yards from what I would guess is about a twoo million dollar house. I'll bet if that homeowner ran his sewage into the same ravine, he'd catch a bust right quick and a healthy fine.

Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety has been notified of these violations (by me actually) and continues to either look the other way or cave in to pressure from the mayor and others.

Shameful hypocrisy, and clearly quid pro quo from the politicians to allow that mess to exist up there. If anyone is in a wheelchair and wants to file a lawsuit and make some money out of the city coffers, TreePeople is a sitting duck.
But if you are Joe Blow living in the desert a mile from your closest neighbor, you will be shut down. I understand the need for building codes, but what is good for the regular population should also apply to the city and county facilities.

AJAX22
02-11-2013, 8:22 AM
I used to date a girl who worked in the la planning department.

It is everything bad you think it is and worse.

If people speak up about it, they get transferred to desks with nothing to do in the middle of nowhere with no chance for career advancement.

KevinB
02-11-2013, 8:59 AM
Wait till you live next to one of these places, my place was a half mile from theirs. Their failed septic system, polluting the creek that runs thru my property, Burning trash, car farming, escaped control burns, livestock that they can't keep on their own property, meth labs and dumping of the chemicals. The list goes on and on.

I bought that place at a tax auction and bulldozed the shack they called "home", I should have just waited till the place caught fire with all the wiring and propane issues in the place. I removed 23 dead cars and trucks off that place. They only "lived there" 5 years.

Live free my ***.

RCJeeper
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
So many places in the desert look like land fills and eye sores.

There is no conspiracy here, just cleaning the eye sores up. Shesh.

dieselpower
02-11-2013, 11:28 AM
This topic is why I am banned from OT. I got into a heated debate with a former LEO who said people who live off the grid are criminals and should be treated as such. My reaction to that was to turn his words against and by referencing police beatings and misconduct the same stereotypical way he did with people who live off the grid.

I got the ban-hammer, he didnt. Oh well watch what you say people.

zombiescanlearn
02-11-2013, 3:59 PM
permits? we dont need no stinking permits!!! who cares if my makeshift septic is draining strait into the ground water ? who care if i dump used oil on my property ? who cares if i make my house out of old pallets and glass beer bottles and we have a quake ? ... come on now its WWOL already isnt it ? i sure hope so or i wasted a bunch of $ on my newest mad max rig ...

/sarcasm .....

LOL. It's fine to express your personal freedom, but you can't do it at the expense of your neighbor. Think about it.

Imagine if you have a nicely manicured home that you take pride in. Next door you have a guy who wants to live off the grid and who decides to put up a who knows what two stories high. On top of it, he doesn't cut his grass or take in the trash and he has a pool that has turned black from being uncared for. He also converted his garage and rents it out so that he can live off the grid and not work. How would you feel?

I have a friend with a neighbor just like that. It's the worse thing you can wake up to every morning. So he called code enforcement. What else would you do?

dieselpower
02-11-2013, 4:20 PM
LOL. It's fine to express your personal freedom, but you can't do it at the expense of your neighbor. Think about it.

Imagine if you have a nicely manicured home that you take pride in. Next door you have a guy who wants to live off the grid and who decides to put up a who knows what two stories high. On top of it, he doesn't cut his grass or take in the trash and he has a pool that has turned black from being uncared for. He also converted his garage and rents it out so that he can live off the grid and not work. How would you feel?

I have a friend with a neighbor just like that. It's the worse thing you can wake up to every morning. So he called code enforcement. What else would you do?

what about a guy who owns 2 acres of land and wants to live in a shack he built himself...not bothering anyone, no one can even see unless they enter his land.

zombiescanlearn
02-12-2013, 2:55 PM
what about a guy who owns 2 acres of land and wants to live in a shack he built himself...not bothering anyone, no one can even see unless they enter his land.

If the structure is a new structure that needs a permit then go get one. Simple. Just check your city's code.

dieselpower
02-12-2013, 4:24 PM
If the structure is a new structure that needs a permit then go get one. Simple. Just check your city's code.

so even though I own the land, I can not live there unless I get a permit?

I just want to be left alone, on my land. I just cut down my trees, made a small log shack. Now the goberment says they can enter my land, tear down my shack and toss me off my land because I didnt get a permit.

What if I don't have money for a permit?
What if the required building codes are not within my means?
Do the city planning officers and inspectors take fish, rabbit and pottery as forms of payment?

Oh so now you require me to have a job and work to pay the goberment so I can live on my land...land I own free and clear.

bill_k_lopez
02-12-2013, 4:39 PM
The video is from 2011.

zombiescanlearn
02-13-2013, 2:15 AM
so even though I own the land, I can not live there unless I get a permit?

I just want to be left alone, on my land. I just cut down my trees, made a small log shack. Now the goberment says they can enter my land, tear down my shack and toss me off my land because I didnt get a permit.

What if I don't have money for a permit?
What if the required building codes are not within my means?
Do the city planning officers and inspectors take fish, rabbit and pottery as forms of payment?

Oh so now you require me to have a job and work to pay the goberment so I can live on my land...land I own free and clear.

There was a story about some guy doing this maybe a year ago. He was also a hoarder. City came down and red tagged the structure. Him and his friend blew off the red tag and continued living in the unpermitted structure. A fire broke out due to the DIY electrical work in the structure and some of them couldn't get out. End of that story.

If a structure is going to be of a certain size, it has to conform to the building code and needs to be permitted. If you can't afford it, then don't build it. Build something else that you can afford.

wolfy
02-13-2013, 6:11 AM
considering you can't cut an oak tree down in la county nothing surprises me.

bodger
02-15-2013, 10:43 AM
considering you can't cut an oak tree down in la county nothing surprises me.

Unless you are a city a city agency giving permission to cut hundreds of trees so they can move the space shuttle down the streets. Then it's okay.

John J
02-16-2013, 2:30 PM
My county *** rapes you for $35,000 for a permit to build a barn!!

The only reason for this is to pay Neves the quitters $15,700/mo retirement.


+1,000. Seriously everyone, get permits and you'll be fine.

wolfy
02-16-2013, 5:25 PM
My county *** rapes you for $35,000 for a permit to build a barn!!

The only reason for this is to pay Neves the quitters $15,700/mo retirement.

That is crazy,

ROTC sniper
02-16-2013, 5:33 PM
Oh so now you require me to have a job and work to pay the goberment so I can live on my land...land I own free and clear.

First of all, you never really own your land free and clear...you'll always pay.... try to go on without paying property taxes and see what happens to your land. Then you'll see who really owns it

44fred
02-18-2013, 8:25 AM
Cool thread!
This discussion is never ending. I wouldn't want to be the one who tries to solve this issue. Think about it, there are really good arguments for both sides and the middle as well.
NO SOLUTION TO SATISFY EVERYBODY.

Granite
02-18-2013, 8:30 AM
Why not just put up a military tent. Damn things last years and you can put a heater in there as well.

Some buildings also don't need permits based on size. Build a few of them.

Wherever there is a law, there's a way around it.

iron cannon
02-18-2013, 10:59 AM
LOL. It's fine to express your personal freedom, but you can't do it at the expense of your neighbor. Think about it.

Imagine if you have a nicely manicured home that you take pride in. Next door you have a guy who wants to live off the grid and who decides to put up a who knows what two stories high. On top of it, he doesn't cut his grass or take in the trash and he has a pool that has turned black from being uncared for. He also converted his garage and rents it out so that he can live off the grid and not work. How would you feel?

I have a friend with a neighbor just like that. It's the worse thing you can wake up to every morning. So he called code enforcement. What else would you do?

Are you watching me

Paltik
02-18-2013, 2:51 PM
I'm all for personal freedom. In general, a person should be free to live in whatever structure he chooses, and to do whatever he wants to with his own property. By the same token, I do not support seatbelt laws or motorcycle helmet laws.

However, with personal freedom comes personal responsibility. If the toxic waste you dump on your property leeches into the water table and harms someone else, you're liable. If the fire hazard on your property starts a fire that harms your neighbor's property, you're liable. But you shouldn't be liable for your neighbor's decreased property values caused by your fiberglass dinosaur sculpture collection on the front lawn.

People should be able to defend themselves from potential harm other people could reasonably see coming; there's no need to wait for your daughter to actually develop cancer before being able to take action against a neighbor dumping toxic waste into the ground--the neighbor should prove solid measures to prevent spread into other people's property or the water table, or immediately stop the dumping and assume responsibility for removing the contamination.

Should people have no say over their neighbors' behavior? Why not? I see nothing wrong with covenants, deed restrictions, homeowners' associations, and the like. It can be nice to have the option of moving into a neighborhood and knowing in advance that none of your neighbors will paint their house bright green, put a car up on blocks in their front yard, park in their driveway overnight, or park in front of someone else's house. In these scenarios, someone with a property rights over the land makes future behavior a condition for purchasing or occupying the land--in other words, the owner voluntarily gives up some of his natural freedoms. His right.

A community might likewise want to provide other incentives for behavior generally encouraged--perhaps if an owner builds to code and allows inspections, he can escape liability for accidental fire damage, for example.

But do I think I or society has a right to not see unpleasant things people erect or place on their property? I do not. If a person manages to acquire legal ownership of a plot of land in the desert and wants to live in a shack of tin and cardboard, hauling water in by cart twice a week, with nobody harmed by his septic tank and buried waste, then I say leave him alone to his free life.

I see no reason privileged people should be able to dictate to others how they should live their lives. All around the world, millions of humans are willing to trade the safety and beauty that comes with building codes and centralized planning for the option to own a home at all, while millions of others are willing to pay more for the predictable "look and feel" of a community. Both should have their place.

spy-d
02-18-2013, 3:33 PM
Up here in the north state, You don't need a permit to build a farm building as long as it doesn't have all 4 walls or a floor.

Back in the 70s (WOW... 40 years ago) you could build a barn with wood floors and walls without permits IF you storing Feed, Hay or use it as a Shop.

We built a 6-pole barn, With only 2 sides and a cement floor. It was tall enough to park a trailer and a truck under it. The County of Butte (at that time) stated that because the barn doesn't have all 4 walls, We didn't need a permit. And PG&E hooked power to a Temp Pole.

Barn is still there.....

I am sure that the laws have changed by now.

ROTC sniper
02-18-2013, 8:16 PM
A good way around the building and safety codes is to put a trailer on your property. Trailers are regulated by the DOT and not the city/county building and safety codes, therefore there are less restrictions. You can make a trailer look as nice as you want (think Malibu) or leave it stock and it's fully functional. You can hook up power, sewer, water, etc. Just as long as you leave the axels on the trailer and do not build a permanent foundation, you should be good to go.

Of course if you have a battery bank and solar panels, you could get away without having to tie into the grid. Gas can be off of a 500 gallon propane tank which only needs to be 50' away from the structure but would still need to get permits for connecting the lines. Digging a well for water would still need permits. Septic would also need permits. At least you're halfway there.

kb58
02-18-2013, 8:24 PM
A good way around the building and safety codes is to put a trailer on your property...
Dont' forget the matching refrigerator collection...

I remember driving past a yard that had "red neck" written all over it. In addition to the usual, there waa a guy in the front yard pushing an object around with his foot as he hosed it out - a toilet. Nice.

Steve_In_29
02-19-2013, 9:14 AM
That's fine, if you can pay the health costs, otherwise it's just entitlement disguised as freedom. There are a lot of people who feel they should be allowed to do whatever they want but won't accept the responsitibility that comes with it, thinking nothing of you and I paying for the consequences of their "freedom."Yes because us riders all know how well a helmet works when a cager spams us at 60mph. That govt mandated and spec'ed helmet doesn't even survive intact.

It's about CONTROL pure and simple and the politicos could give a ratz***** about our health.

njineermike
02-19-2013, 10:11 AM
Dont' forget the matching refrigerator collection...

I remember driving past a yard that had "red neck" written all over it. In addition to the usual, there waa a guy in the front yard pushing an object around with his foot as he hosed it out - a toilet. Nice.

If it's not yours, why do you care? Feel like coming over to my house and giving me advice on what's in my garage? Hows about the stickers on my truck or the color of my curtains?


Feel free, and I'll feel perfectly free to tell you to go F yourself and get the hell off my property.

Paltik
02-19-2013, 2:15 PM
That's fine, if you can pay the health costs, otherwise it's just entitlement disguised as freedom. There are a lot of people who feel they should be allowed to do whatever they want but won't accept the responsitibility that comes with it, thinking nothing of you and I paying for the consequences of their "freedom."

This is a large part of our problem in America. In shouldering responsibility for so many things (e.g. healthcare, education, retirement, safety) the government is almost forced to restrict our freedoms more and more. At best, a generous portion of our earnings is seized to pay for all the things government has taken responsibility for; at worst, the government goes bankrupt, formerly responsible people embrace their new role as free-riders, and we lose our liberties.

In taking the position that we should maximize individual liberty, I accept that entitlements such as healthcare and public education have to go.

ewarmour
03-09-2013, 8:01 PM
http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/08/sessions-and-ryan-to-lahood-halt-the-high-speed-train-to-vegas/

Hmmmm.....

Paltik
03-19-2013, 10:30 AM
Posted in another thread, but relevant here as well: A prepper's camp that teaches how to build shelters, cook with wood, etc. shut down for not meeting code. (http://rt.com/usa/conway-survivalist-carolina-charges-442/)

bohoki
03-19-2013, 4:19 PM
i wish i could get one of those facinating cement tents

BdvfMrIu5QU

BCDavis
04-10-2013, 3:09 PM
What I don't understand from that first video, is why that one guy was asked to move his RV. I understand the whole thing about buildings done without permits, not to code, etc. They will nail you on that, regardless if you are in the city, or in the middle of nowhere. But parking an RV on your lot? Seems like that would be fine. Unless they have some specific local code against it out there or something. Which wouldn't be surprising. Maybe you can't permanently live in an RV on your property or something. They do make a lot of laws to prevent people from living that way, because people in the city find it unappealing. But those same laws apply across the board, even in the middle of nowhere.

kbenson
04-10-2013, 3:33 PM
The folks who live here seem to do so undisturbed....4 now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City

sixoclockhold
04-10-2013, 3:43 PM
I was living in an RV on my own land for a year. Had a septic company I paid with receipts $100 a month to come pump me out bi-monthly. County made me get an in ground septic system or move it. Middle of no where basically. In Arkansas even. You can not permanently reside anywhere without facilities.

kb58
04-25-2013, 8:12 AM
Complain all you want about "unreasonable rules", but there are very good reasons for them. This is what happens when people are allowed to build what they want with no engineering oversight, and it's just amazing to hear people say, 'if it falls down I'll do better next time." Tell that to those inside: http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-bangladesh-factories-ignored-evacuation-101035209--finance.html

Everyone thinks they're a structural engineer...

Cnynrat
04-25-2013, 8:32 AM
It is not this way everywhere. While researching potential retirement locations (T minus 4 years and counting), I've found it enlightening to take a look at county planning commission web sites to get an idea of what we might be in for. Here are a couple excerpts from the Boundary County ID Planning Commission:

From their page "Building a Home in Boundary County"

Life in Boundary County is wonderful; the people here retain a strong pioneer spirit of hard work and of helping their neighbors ... most who call this community home would agree that you'll not find a more neighborly place anywhere else. But the rugged beauty and often harsh conditions mean that many of the amenities you may be used to are not available, and if you're used to relying on strict ordinances and regulations to help you resolve neighborly disputes, you'll be disappointed. It is the belief of the county that people who buy and build here have the right to build the home that best suits them; if the roof collapses under the weight of the snow, they'll know better next time. Conversely, you may build a beautiful home that meets the most stringent building codes while your neighbor may not; the county will not intercede on your behalf to make that neighbor live up to your standards.

From the Vision section of the Boundary County Comprehensive Plan


I. PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS

Boundary County policy will advocate the rights of property ownership, recognizing the primacy of private property rights and the sanctity of private property ownership as enunciated in the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution and Articles 1 and 14 of the Idaho Constitution.

Boundary County planners will recognize that property owners have the right to enjoy the use of their property in pursuit of their own best interests, both social and economic, yet recognize also that the ownership of property confers responsibilities. Use of private property should not interfere with the health or safety of neighboring property owners or occupants or deny neighboring property owners those same inherent rights.

Boundary County land use and planning and zoning ordinances will place the minimum level of restriction and administrative requirement necessary to provide for the public weal.

Boundary County planners will not implement any action, ordinance or administrative regulation that constitutes uncompensated deprivation of private property as defined in the state and federal constitutions, and will vigorously support county property owners from any government or agency that attempts to deny their rights of ownership without just compensation.

The way it used to be in much of the country. To what extent has the reliance on government regulation caused individual self reliance to wither and die away?

Paltik
04-25-2013, 3:26 PM
This is what happens when people are allowed to build what they want with no engineering oversight, and it's just amazing to hear people say, 'if it falls down I'll do better next time." Tell that to those inside:

Why "tsk-tsk" and say people get away with this? Because we let people get away with it.

I guarantee you that if the executives of those factories were executed for homicide (they were warned of the cracks and chose to ignore the evacuation order), and the owners (including stockholders) were liable to the victims and their families, other companies in the area would check their buildings and honor evacuation orders. What happens, though, is the principals and stockholders are shielded by law from liability.

Instead of saying, "This is what happens when people are allowed to build what they want with no engineering oversight," I say, "This is what happens when people are not held responsible for their actions."

Steve_In_29
04-25-2013, 4:32 PM
Why "tsk-tsk" and say people get away with this? Because we let people get away with it.

I guarantee you that if the executives of those factories were executed for homicide (they were warned of the cracks and chose to ignore the evacuation order), and the owners (including stockholders) were liable to the victims and their families, other companies in the area would check their buildings and honor evacuation orders. What happens, though, is the principals and stockholders are shielded by law from liability.

Instead of saying, "This is what happens when people are allowed to build what they want with no engineering oversight," I say, "This is what happens when people are not held responsible for their actions."

^^^ X2!

wendys
04-25-2013, 4:39 PM
so ****ing WHAT?
if the house is not built to code: WHAT IS THE DAMAGE?

I should be free to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.. because the ONLY risk I am taking is with MY OWN LIFE and the government has no place there.

same with my OWN ****ING HOUSE. if I want to sell it to someone else, then that is a different story. if the house is built unsafe, and collapses on me, then that's my problem. if it collapses on someone else, WELL THEN we see a crime has been committed.


arresting people for victimless crimes is NOT what America is. IT'S NOT

I can see where you are coming from but of that house collapses on you what about the lives of the rescue workers that must try and keep you alive? Firefighters, LEO that go in for a rescue?

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Steve_In_29
04-25-2013, 4:57 PM
I can see where you are coming from but of that house collapses on you what about the lives of the rescue workers that must try and keep you alive? Firefighters, LEO that go in for a rescue?
Yes.... if it only saves one life then taking away your freedoms are worth it!!

Sound familiar?


If house wasn't built to code and it's too dangerous to enter for rescue then tough for the owner.

Fire Depts do this for houses that are by code supposed to have a certain distance of brush cleared around a house. In the case of a wildfire they will not defend a house that hasn't done so and move on to the next location.



Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.

Ronald Reagan

bill_k_lopez
04-25-2013, 5:01 PM
Videos Uploaded on Jun 23, 2011.

In other news, those damn Japs bombed Pearl Harbor!! We ought to get into this fight.

wendys
04-25-2013, 10:59 PM
Yes.... if it only saves one life then taking away your freedoms are worth it!!

Sound familiar?


If house wasn't built to code and it's too dangerous to enter for rescue then tough for the owner.

Fire Depts do this for houses that are by code supposed to have a certain distance of brush cleared around a house. In the case of a wildfire they will not defend a house that hasn't done so and move on to the next location.



Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.

Ronald Reagan

Trust me I agree, I was just trying to play Devils advocate and come up with anything that is at least semi-reasonable.

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