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View Full Version : mm and ace skeleton stock legit


savageevo
09-19-2007, 9:30 AM
this combo legit. considering the style of this stock. thanks

Nefarious
09-19-2007, 9:36 AM
I dont see why it would not be. You should be just fine using it on a featureless build

bwiese
09-19-2007, 11:11 AM
I think I get what you're trying to ask, as there may be a gap btwn rear of MM grip and the lower part of ACE stock.

If there's ANY chance *you* or *ANOTHER* person could get web of hand in this groove and operate trigger - no matter how uncomfortably or realistically - then it should be shied away from since it could remotely be regarded as a pistol grip.

MonsterMan grips were designed to run with a standard A2 milspec stock. Any other usage may be questionable given above.

I really don't see the need for an ACE stock, esp in such a situation. Furthermore, the A2 stocks have a nice trapdoor for storage of spare parts (spare bolt, pins, etc.)

SemiAutoSam
09-19-2007, 11:32 AM
I agree.
And while I own a ACE stock I only use it with my fixed mag build.



I think I get what you're trying to ask, as there may be a gap btwn rear of MM grip and the lower part of ACE stock.

If there's ANY chance *you* or *ANOTHER* person could get web of hand in this groove and operate trigger - no matter how uncomfortably or realistically - then it should be shied away from since it could remotely be regarded as a pistol grip.

Monster Man grips were designed to run with a standard A2 milspec stock. Any other usage may be questionable given above.

I really don't see the need for an ACE stock, esp in such a situation. Furthermore, the A2 stocks have a nice trapdoor for storage of spare parts (spare bolt, pins, etc.)

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 11:41 AM
One option is to add some to the MMG so there is no gap between then end of it and the Ace skeleton stock.

-Gene

Tweak338
09-19-2007, 1:15 PM
I currently use a MMG and an Ace skeleton stock.
There is no way in hell I can wrap your thumb around it.

rohanreed
09-19-2007, 1:17 PM
If there's ANY chance *you* or *ANOTHER* person could get web of hand in this groove and operate trigger - no matter how uncomfortably or realistically - then it should be shied away from since it could remotely be regarded as a pistol grip.

Doesn't the definition of a pistol grip also stipulate that where the web of the hand wraps around be below the line of where the trigger meets the receiver?

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 2:11 PM
Yes. That's why Bill was referring to the web of the hand in the groove/opening.

-Gene

rohanreed
09-19-2007, 6:17 PM
Yes I got that part. What I was getting at was that the portion of the mmg that falls below that line is nearly as far from the trigger as the bottom edge. If someone could wrap the web of their hand around the bottom point of the mmg and still reach the trigger, no matter how uncomfortably or realistically, then would it not also bear the remote chance of being regarded as a pistol grip?

http://dogballs.net/images/01ar1_measured.jpg

(I'm not trying to argue against the validity of the MMG here, I like the first gen one that I have and like the new version I've handled even more. And monsterman, sorry for using your image, but it's the best one I could find. I'll take it down if you wish.)

Solidmch
09-19-2007, 6:59 PM
no one in their right mine would call that a pistol grip. Sorry, but your thinking to much. :eek:

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 7:03 PM
You think the other side wishes to use its right mind? Comon.

If the gap is in the area "south west" of the axis in your picture and you can in any way pull the trigger, you might have a pistol grip.

Remember that Iggy has been known to keep trying to break a semiauto to get it to be a "machinegun."

Worst case, fill in the little gap.

-Gene

AJAX22
09-19-2007, 7:25 PM
I was playing around with my ace pistol buffer and an MMG today (on a pinned mag lower), there was WAY to much daylight for me to be comfortable with it on an open magwell gun.

Legal? probably, but Its a grey enough area that I don't want to put my butt on the line just for a cooler stock.

SuperSet
09-19-2007, 7:29 PM
Interesting thread. I've been jostling around the idea of an MMG build but I hate the A2 stock. It's just too long.
That Sully stock looks promising though. Does it have the same problem as the ACE being there's open space in there?

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 7:33 PM
The Sully looks like it would be better match but its all about the potential gap.

-Gene

Solidmch
09-19-2007, 7:55 PM
You think the other side wishes to use its right mind? Comon.

If the gap is in the area "south west" of the axis in your picture and you can in any way pull the trigger, you might have a pistol grip.

Remember that Iggy has been known to keep trying to break a semiauto to get it to be a "machinegun."

Worst case, fill in the little gap.

-Gene

It would be hard to get a DA to take that case. No one wants to loose. Unless you change the definition of a pistol grip I dont think there is a flying chance that could win.

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 8:07 PM
Lets do the math.

1. Spend less than $50 to fill in the gap.

2. Spend $20K proving that you're correct and its not a pistol grip.

I can afford #2, but I have better things to do with my legal funds. You?

-Gene

Solidmch
09-19-2007, 9:10 PM
Oh dont get me wrong. I agree. I am only talking about mmg with A-2 stock. I think one is getting into some grey area any other way. I was only talking about the picture that had been posted.

hoffmang
09-19-2007, 9:13 PM
In that case, let me be clear. I was saying that the "south west" section would be a problem on an Ace Skeleton. It is COMPLETELY not a pistol grip or a thumbhole stock when paired with an A2 or other stock with substantially equivalent profile.

-Gene

Solidmch
09-19-2007, 9:21 PM
In that case, let me be clear. I was saying that the "south west" section would be a problem on an Ace Skeleton. It is COMPLETELY not a pistol grip or a thumbhole stock when paired with an A2 or other stock with substantially equivalent profile.

-Gene

I agree

SuperSet
09-19-2007, 9:40 PM
The Sully looks like it would be better match but its all about the potential gap.

-Gene

Is there anyone using the Sully with MMG? I'd love to see a pic.

mcubed4130
09-19-2007, 10:06 PM
Just to be clear, this area I changed to the funny brown pattern w/red arrow pointing at it, is the area that is questionable?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/mcubed4130/ace_mmg_oll.jpg

As there is no possible way for me to reach the trigger - if I painfully try and shove the web of my hand in there.

-M3

Fate
09-19-2007, 11:07 PM
...but I hate the A2 stock. It's just too long.
Put an A1 stock on it then. Or a "tactical entry" version of the A2 if your arms are like T-rex.

bwiese
09-19-2007, 11:57 PM
Just to be clear, this area I changed to the funny brown pattern w/red arrow pointing at it, is the area that is questionable?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/mcubed4130/ace_mmg_oll.jpg

As there is no possible way for me to reach the trigger - if I painfully try and shove the web of my hand in there.

Mcubed,

Thanks for the pic as I was working from guesswork & aging mental image.

In theory that little teensy area could be area of argument/concern. If filler material brought the whole bottom of the gap area above the line at the top of the trigger, then all's cool in regards to 11 CCR 5469(d).

hoffmang
09-20-2007, 10:09 AM
Just to echo Bill - all one needs to do by law is fill the little area with the piece of cardboard that M3 placed in the photo. However, for prudence's sake, just make a little fin that fits basically flush with the base of the Ace.

M3 - Thanks for the pic!

Solidmch - I wasn't clear enough above. You and I had just miscommunicated. My bad for not being more precise in my earlier post. You were most certainly correct.

-Gene

savageevo
09-20-2007, 2:22 PM
thank you all for your reply, I will be modifying the MM for this build. I do like the way the ace stock look and feel and also like how the MM feels too so both combination is a way to go for me. I am sure there are a few others that want this combo and this clears it up for us. thanks again guys.:patriot:

m335i
10-04-2007, 12:53 AM
Any idea if this will work with the shorter Ace Entry Stock?
http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_77&products_id=190

savageevo
10-04-2007, 8:30 AM
I see how that may work, the curve comes closer to the MM but then again is the oal 30"?

grywlfbg
10-04-2007, 1:04 PM
Put an A1 stock on it then. Or a "tactical entry" version of the A2 if your arms are like T-rex.

+1. I had trouble with the reach of the A2 so I'm using an MMG w/ an A1 stock. Just had to file a little off the "fin" on the MMG to get it to fit. If you search for my name, A1, and MMG I did a write-up.

mcubed4130
10-04-2007, 1:08 PM
I see how that may work, the curve comes closer to the MM but then again is the oal 30"?

OAL - obviously will depend on what length barrel / barrel + permanently attached muzzle device would be; and/or if you add a butt stock pad or not.

-M3

DedEye
10-04-2007, 4:01 PM
Interesting thread. I've been jostling around the idea of an MMG build but I hate the A2 stock. It's just too long.
That Sully stock looks promising though. Does it have the same problem as the ACE being there's open space in there?

It's either Bushmaster or RRA that makes an A2 stock that's about 3" shorter. I think that's your best bet.

mcubed4130
11-30-2007, 9:45 PM
Hmm....

Certainly not to rain on Lan World Inc's good work... but...

http://www.lanworldinc.com/Robinson.htm
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/mcubed4130/XCR-CA-Short-RS-1.jpg

Isn't this still a problem in theory?

-M3

MonsterMan
11-30-2007, 10:22 PM
Hmm....

Certainly not to rain on Lan World Inc's good work... but...

http://www.lanworldinc.com/Robinson.htm
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/mcubed4130/XCR-CA-Short-RS-1.jpg

Isn't this still a problem in theory?

-M3

You would have to have incredibly long fingers to reach the trigger if you put your web back past where the grip falls below the line. My finger is a good inch or more away when I try. I even have long fingers. If one is worried, just fill that small area that falls below the line with a material of their choice.

Piper
12-01-2007, 8:14 AM
This is so much Bravo Sierra, I think I'll just wait for the AWB to be repealed.

MonsterMan
12-01-2007, 2:13 PM
If it ever goes to a trial, what do you want to bet the BOF will bring in a giant guy with huge hands who can use it as a pistol grip.

It worked for OJ.

I bet that same huge handed person has really sharp pointed fingernails that could push the bullet button too! :eek:

MudCamper
12-02-2007, 10:51 AM
Interesting thread. I've been jostling around the idea of an MMG build but I hate the A2 stock. It's just too long.

I mounted a MMG on a stubby/entry stocked rifle. I had to trim the MMG down with a dremel just like MM said, but it worked great. And it is short!

trinydex
08-19-2008, 7:47 PM
sorry for the necrobump i wanted to save these pics so future inquiring minds can see