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View Full Version : Legally purchase a MAC-10 Through a Private Party transfer


SemiAutoSam
09-15-2007, 6:07 PM
I found a way to Legally purchase a MAC-10 Through a Private Party transfer that is.

What do any of you think about going this route ? I dont have the cash at the moment but I know the whereabouts of these are in California so a PPT would be all it takes that and take it out of AW registration and replace the threaded barrel with a unthreaded barrel.


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/Resized001-5.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/Resized002-5.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/RIFLES/DSC00265.jpg

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
With the threads removed on the barrel or the barrel replaced with a non threaded one this is no longer an issue.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
With the threads removed on the barrel or the barrel replaced with a non threaded one this is no longer an issue.

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
The MAC-10 uses the pistol grip as its mag well so this is not an issue.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.




http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.htm

12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.

These shouldn't even be on this list Per Harrot.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR110 C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1

NOTE THE MAC-10 in my pics is not of this MAKE OR MODEL
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
This one shouldn't even be on this list Per Harrot.
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
NOTE THE MAC-10 in my pics is not of this MAKE OR MODEL
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
The MAC below is close but the model is off by one number.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.

CalNRA
09-15-2007, 6:17 PM
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
With the threads removed on the barrel or the barrel replaced with a non threaded one this is no longer an issue.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
With the threads removed on the barrel or the barrel replaced with a non threaded one this is no longer an issue.

I don't get it. I don't see how replacing the threaded barrel with a non-threaded one would solve 4(C), the "shroud" would still be there. It doesn't say a semi-auto pistol with threaded barrel AND any of the following, but any semi-auto that accepts detachable mag with any of the following.

the only I can see is to fix the magazine and remove the threaded barrel.

I'm also little tired from going to the range so I could be talking out of my rear. :D

I'm not too familiar with the mac 10, I don't know if the top half of the gun slides back under recoil but even if that's true the top part doesn't look like it completely encloses the barrel, thus allows one to fire the gun without burning his hand with a "shroud" in place that's not a slide. Still an AW unless you fix the mag.

:confused:

bwiese
09-15-2007, 6:18 PM
The make/model ain't on Roberti-Roos list.

The owner would have to remove the threaded bbl and deregister it as AW with DOJ BoF first. After that, it's not an AW and is just a big ugly pistol.

Then, it could be PPT'd to you via FFL - without hicap mags of course. (I am assuming you already legally own hicaps for such a firearm, since using such a gun with 10 rounders is kinda nonsensical.)

I am not too sure why anyone wants these. Frankly a Ruger P89 is cheaper and more useful.

ETD1010
09-15-2007, 6:27 PM
I am not too sure why anyone wants these. Frankly a Ruger P89 is cheaper and more useful.

But..but.. a Mac-10 is COOLER!! :cool: :D:cool2:

SemiAutoSam
09-15-2007, 6:31 PM
With out a threaded barrel how do you attach a barrel shroud?

Where do you see a barrel shroud on the MAC-10 I have posted pics of ?





I don't get it. I don't see how replacing the threaded barrel with a non-threaded one would solve 4(C), the "shroud" would still be there. It doesn't say a semi-auto pistol with threaded barrel AND any of the following, but any semi-auto that accepts detachable mag with any of the following.

the only I can see is to fix the magazine and remove the threaded barrel.

I'm also little tired from going to the range so I could be talking out of my rear.

I'm not too familiar with the mac 10, I don't know if the top half of the gun slides back under recoil but the slide doesn't look like it completely encloses the barrel, thus allows one to fire the gun without burning his hand with a "shroud" in place.





I have a ton of 30, 40 and 50 round mags for the 45acp mac-10's

and a bunch of 9mm mags as well.

I guess I was a tight wad when I tried to sell things like that at the gun show's and hence kept them.

Bill another draw to this Kind of Pistol is it fires from a open bolt.



The make/model ain't on Roberti-Roos list.

The owner would have to remove the threaded bbl and deregister it as AW with DOJ BoF first. After that, it's not an AW and is just a big ugly pistol.

Then, it could be PPT'd to you via FFL - without hicap mags of course. (I am assuming you already legally own hicaps for such a firearm, since using such a gun with 10 rounders is kinda nonsensical.)

I am not too sure why anyone wants these. Frankly a Ruger P89 is cheaper and more useful.

Turbinator
09-15-2007, 6:45 PM
Didn't we already determine MAC10's and Cobray M11's could be transferred legally if they are already in the state, not registered AW's, and don't have any offending features?

Sounds like this has already been hashed out?

Turby

M. Sage
09-15-2007, 7:31 PM
I don't get it. I don't see how replacing the threaded barrel with a non-threaded one would solve 4(C), the "shroud" would still be there. It doesn't say a semi-auto pistol with threaded barrel AND any of the following, but any semi-auto that accepts detachable mag with any of the following.

the only I can see is to fix the magazine and remove the threaded barrel.

I'm also little tired from going to the range so I could be talking out of my rear. :D

I'm not too familiar with the mac 10, I don't know if the top half of the gun slides back under recoil but even if that's true the top part doesn't look like it completely encloses the barrel, thus allows one to fire the gun without burning his hand with a "shroud" in place that's not a slide. Still an AW unless you fix the mag.

:confused:

That's not a shroud, it's the receiver.

Now the TEC-9..... http://lib.irismedia.org/sait/guns/handguns/hg136-e.htm

Mssr. Eleganté
09-15-2007, 9:11 PM
And Sam, don't forget that in order to do a PPT you are going to have to get a California Driver's License first. Or you could go to that FFL you are always talking about who does transfers for $25 and doesn't require a California Driver's License.

RRangel
09-15-2007, 9:12 PM
Those aren't known for being quality if you're looking for a good handgun. I'd rather have any other pistol on the CA approved list over that, seriously. It's pretty much a brick of a handgun.

BossHog
09-15-2007, 9:15 PM
Would permanently attaching a thread protector to this serve the same purpose as removing the threads altogether or replacing with a non-threaded barrel?

M. Sage
09-15-2007, 9:32 PM
Yes. So would having the threads turned (cut) off.

BossHog
09-15-2007, 9:41 PM
Yes. So would having the threads turned (cut) off.

In your opinion, would it be better (e.g. legally safer and/or more esthetically pleasing) to loc-tite or weld a thread protector on?

M. Sage
09-15-2007, 9:46 PM
I don't think Lock-Tite is permanent enough. I've heard that silver solder passes muster, though.

RANGER295
09-15-2007, 10:10 PM
Sam… I am jealous… I have been searching for one of these things. I have mags for them in 9mm, .45, and I think I may have one that I believe is .380.

Charliegone
09-15-2007, 10:21 PM
My cousin got something similar to a mac through private party (he got a cobray .380) with no threads. Completely legal. Threads have to be removed and it wouldn't be a good idea to have threaded barrel (in case you removed it and replaced with a non-threaded one).

RANGER295
09-15-2007, 10:33 PM
My cousin got something similar to a mac through private party (he got a cobray .380) with no threads. Completely legal. Threads have to be removed and it wouldn't be a good idea to have threaded barrel (in case you removed it and replaced with a non-threaded one).

There is no constructive possession for the AW ban. There is no reason not to have a threaded barrel sitting around.

Q
09-15-2007, 11:08 PM
Nice find. If you could find a ffl, I would be interested in one.:D
One of my favorite ingram movies Lone Wolf McQuade.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/lonewolf1.jpg

M. Sage
09-15-2007, 11:10 PM
There is no constructive possession for the AW ban. There is no reason not to have a threaded barrel sitting around.

+1. No problem with having it in pieces.

AJAX22
09-15-2007, 11:34 PM
Sam you crazy SOB... you actually found one thats off list....

I never thought that they'd mis-list the make and model of the most obvious MAC of them all.... Excelent find.. I can't believe they actually missed that one. :D

**edit** the mac design doesn't contain a barrel shroud, it has a telescoping bolt design which allows the barrel to extend a ways into the upper receiver, however from where the barrel exits the trunion (the point where it is attached) it is unshrouded.

there is nothing that specifies how far a receiver can overlap a barrel.

hoffmang
09-15-2007, 11:39 PM
This could help round out my burgeoning collection of the firearms of gun control...

-Gene

AJAX22
09-15-2007, 11:47 PM
Do you have an UZI pistol Gene? I've got everything set up to have them brought in as single shots ;)

I plan on having a pair of them myself eventually (when my gun budget is restored)

M. Sage
09-16-2007, 9:12 AM
I can't believe they actually missed that one.

Lol, you ever looked at what's on the list and compared it with what's not?

BM59 - on.
M1 Garand - off.
M1A - off.

What's the difference between those three? The BM59 is basically an M1A in .30-06 or a Garand with a detachable mag. It's pretty obvious that the people writing that list were morons.

ROCKETW19
09-16-2007, 10:53 AM
I found a way to Legally purchase a MAC-10 Through a Private Party transfer that is.

What do any of you think about going this route ? I dont have the cash at the moment but I know the whereabouts of these are in California so a PPT would be all it takes that and take it out of AW registration and replace the threaded barrel with a unthreaded barrel.


since you dont have the cash right now and i do why dont we work something out and i will buy it! PM me if we can work it out.

SemiAutoSam
09-16-2007, 11:15 AM
There are a few ahead of you that have already asked the same question.

I will create a auction for this item as the prize when and if I choose to let this item go.

since you dont have the cash right now and i do why dont we work something out and i will buy it! PM me if we can work it out.

ROCKETW19
09-16-2007, 11:28 AM
There are a few ahead of you that have already asked the same question.

I will create a auction for this item as the prize when and if I choose to let this item go.

sounds good. but seriously i would keep it. i had the exact same gun about 17 years ago and sold it (for alot) and still regret it to this day. i realy want the mac11 380 version but ill take this if i can.lol.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-16-2007, 2:43 PM
Bill another draw to this Kind of Pistol is it fires from a open bolt.

I thought I read somewhere the ATF determined that any firearm that fires from the open bolt would be too easily convertable to automatic and carries the same NFA tax stamp. How do you properly transfer an open bolt firearm in California?

AJAX22
09-16-2007, 2:58 PM
I thought I read somewhere the ATF determined that any firearm that fires from the open bolt would be too easily convertable to automatic and carries the same NFA tax stamp. How do you properly transfer an open bolt firearm in California?

The same as a regular gun.

open bolt guns are prohibited from being manufactured any more (as of 1982?) because they can easily be converted to FA. but they had to grandfather all the existing ones that had already been sold.

It's hard to find them, many (if not most) were converted to FA before the 86 FOPA took effect.

however they exist... if you look hard enough and have the bankroll to back it up.

here's a gratuitous pic of my .22LR ranger 39A open bolt semi auto rifle.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0147.jpg

SemiAutoSam
09-16-2007, 3:23 PM
That's purdy is that a Bingham magazine in it ? I have a butt load of those somewhere that I use to use in a 1022 rifle. I guess those would be a good enough incentive to clean out one of my containers huh?

Post some better detail of the mag if you have the time I want to see if its the same as the ones I have.




The same as a regular gun.

open bolt guns are prohibited from being manufactured any more (as of 1982?) because they can easily be converted to FA. but they had to grandfather all the existing ones that had already been sold.

It's hard to find them, many (if not most) were converted to FA before the 86 FOPA took effect.

however they exist... if you look hard enough and have the bankroll to back it up.

here's a gratuitous pic of my .22LR ranger 39A open bolt semi auto rifle.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0147.jpg

AJAX22
09-16-2007, 3:45 PM
I honestly don't know what kind of magazine it is, Its a 20 round something or other that I had in storage. I have a few of them but all I know is it says IH 22LR. and is very well made.

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-17-2007, 8:02 AM
The same as a regular gun.

open bolt guns are prohibited from being manufactured any more (as of 1982?) because they can easily be converted to FA. but they had to grandfather all the existing ones that had already been sold.

It's hard to find them, many (if not most) were converted to FA before the 86 FOPA took effect.

however they exist... if you look hard enough and have the bankroll to back it up.

Thanks for the clarification. So a PPT of any open bolt, non-full auto firearm manufactured/built before 1982 should be legal. I guess we would have to take the sellers word that the firearm was originally bought in open bolt configuration before 1982 seeing as how handgun registration didn't happen until 1991?

Damn it! One more I need to add to the collection. :43:

I was seriously considering building one, but I've heard many reports of the closed bolt design having some serious trigger slap problems. Open bolt would be excellent.

AJAX22
09-17-2007, 10:11 AM
There are some obvious differences between an open bolt and closed bolt mac.

different markings, different holes for FCG.

also they have a stupid little metal bit welded into the bottom of the receiver that prevents the insertion of an open bolt (FA) FCG

If you would like to try out a closed bolt semi auto PM11/9, I have a home built one you can play with if you are down in LA.

the trigger slap is painfull ... however it does make bumpfire easier

AYEAREFIFTEEN
09-17-2007, 11:58 AM
There are some obvious differences between an open bolt and closed bolt mac.

different markings, different holes for FCG.

also they have a stupid little metal bit welded into the bottom of the receiver that prevents the insertion of an open bolt (FA) FCG

If you would like to try out a closed bolt semi auto PM11/9, I have a home built one you can play with if you are down in LA.

the trigger slap is painfull ... however it does make bumpfire easier

Thanks for the offer to shoot the PM11. I am in the LA area, perhaps we can set up a time to meet when convenient for you.

I'm really interested in your build. I'll send a PM so we don't Hijack this thread any further. ;)

FreedomIsNotFree
09-17-2007, 12:09 PM
Coolness factor not withstanding....I'm not sure why anyone would want a Mac-10. I had one years ago, prior to the ban, and that thing was a pain in the rear to shoot. Not only was it nearly impossible to aim properly, but the grip is horrible. If its not FA with a 30 rd. mag, not sure how useful it would be.....when I think of the term "spray and pray"...I think of guns such as this....

Sometimes we buy things just because we can.....and I could see how this gun could fall into that category....

slick_711
09-17-2007, 1:35 PM
Lol, you ever looked at what's on the list and compared it with what's not?

BM59 - on.
M1 Garand - off.
M1A - off.

What's the difference between those three? The BM59 is basically an M1A in .30-06 or a Garand with a detachable mag. It's pretty obvious that the people writing that list were morons.

Mmmm, I agree they were morons, but I would think that was more an issue of lobbying and less an issue of differences between the rifles. The BM59 is the only one of those three rifles not U.S. made. Entirely possible that I'm reading too far into it, but I'd imagine S.A. had a little something to do with that.

saki302
09-17-2007, 9:29 PM
I have one I built around 10+ years ago (closed bolt semi). The trigger is actually quite nice- minimal trigger slap, crisp letoff. Perfect function (though it tosses a hammer pin e-clip once in awhile), and light recoil. Fairly accurate too- comparable to any service pistol (hits slightly to the right- about 1/2" @ 10M).

Upsides? Light recoil. Takes cheap sten mags.

Downsides? HEAVY. BIG. Clunky grip angle. Every *****hat at the range asks 'Is that an UZI?!?!?'...

It doesn't do anything a Glock won't do- but it is fun to shoot and gets attention...

-Dave

ROCKETW19
09-17-2007, 10:46 PM
If its not FA with a 30 rd. mag, not sure how useful it would be.........
it would take about 2 mins for this to happen! it is the kind of gun i would want for the "you never know day"

saki302
09-18-2007, 2:45 PM
For the 'You never know day', probably the last thing I'd want is full auto to spray off the ammo supply.

It's good for fun, and suppressive fire. The military has a near unlimited budget for ammo, and suppressive fire- we don't! :D

That was part of the reason I enjoyed 'Blood Diamond'- DiCaprio looked like he knew what he was doing most of the time- controlled fire on semi auto.. good trainer!

-Dave

SemiAutoSam
09-18-2007, 2:57 PM
I wouldn't think it would be the last thing you would want if a mob of armed people was rushing your location. But there are tools for a lot of given situations and this is one of those tools in its Legal full auto capacity.

Another tool could be a longer range rifle that could remove a threat from say 100-500 yards distance.




For the 'You never know day', probably the last thing I'd want is full auto to spray off the ammo supply.

It's good for fun, and suppressive fire. The military has a near unlimited budget for ammo, and suppressive fire- we don't! :D

That was part of the reason I enjoyed 'Blood Diamond'- DiCaprio looked like he knew what he was doing most of the time- controlled fire on semi auto.. good trainer!

-Dave

m24armorer
09-18-2007, 5:20 PM
Last of the pre-82 open bolt .380's. Found it under the desk........



http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/m24armorer/Image032.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/m24armorer/Image030.jpg

AJAX22
09-18-2007, 5:24 PM
Last of the pre-82 open bolt .380's. Found it under the desk........

you looking to get rid of that? ;)

SemiAutoSam
09-18-2007, 5:29 PM
Looks like the small s just before sM11 was added post mfg?

Does the -A1 on the end of sM11 matter ?

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.htm

(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.



Last of the pre-82 open bolt .380's. Found it under the desk........

m24armorer
09-18-2007, 5:37 PM
The -A1 matters a lot!

SemiAutoSam
09-18-2007, 5:38 PM
I thought it might.

m24armorer
09-18-2007, 5:46 PM
The small "s" is for semi. And Sam I hope the guns you are looking at are closed bolt.

ROCKETW19
09-18-2007, 11:37 PM
I hope the guns you are looking at are closed bolt.

why is this?

resistor
09-19-2007, 8:44 AM
Open bolt is too easy to convert to F/A.

SemiAutoSam
09-19-2007, 9:42 AM
And what about owning a open bolt firearm that was mfg prior to 1982 do you think is against the law ?

If its not banned by federal law and not on any California ban lists without the threaded barrel its legal.

Open bolt is too easy to convert to F/A.

resistor
09-19-2007, 12:17 PM
And what about owning a open bolt firearm that was mfg prior to 1982 do you think is against the law ?

If its not banned by federal law and not on any California ban lists without the threaded barrel its legal.


No, I'm not saying its illegal at all; if its off list, its off list, and legal here in KStan.

What I'm saying is that semi open bolt guns are too easy to convert. If you can find a semi-auto fixed firing pin/open bolt gun here in California, I'd be impressed. Its not IMPOSSIBLE, but youd have to have had that gun for a LONG time.

ROCKETW19
09-19-2007, 3:00 PM
Open bolt is too easy to convert to F/A.

yes i know how easy it is, i had one many moons ago. but m24armorer made a comment that made me think something is wrong with having one.
although the one i had was with the fake supressor witch made it easy to shoot. i dont know how hard it will be without one? probably a waist of bullits but fun thats for sure.