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tman
09-12-2007, 11:22 AM
All of this happened earlier this year. Since I have decided against legal action, I will post my story.

Last year I got a job working at a front desk. It was an easy job with a lot of downtime so I was able to get homework and reading done. Great position to be in if you're a college student. I might only be going on 22, but I take my work seriously because I live on my own and completely support myself financially. I even pay for books and tuition out of my own pocket with no financial aid thus far.

After the semester was over and I had no homework, I began to get bored at work as I had up to 6 hours of downtime a day, so I began surfing the web. Mostly Calguns and other gun/survival related sites. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to surf the web, but one of my coworkers did and everyone was fine with it. I figured if there was a problem, the worse that would happen is they would tell me to stop. I was a great employee, they were always telling me how great I was doing.

WRONG! I get a call one day and I am told not to come into work that day that there was "a problem with how you have been doing your job" and I was effectively on suspension. I had no idea why because they didn't tell me. They just let me worry about it for about 4 days before asking me to come in. I came in, and there was my last paycheck on my supervisors desk. She told me that they found out that I had been using the internet and that it is against the rules and that other people "had permission" to do so but not me.

Needless to say, I was pretty shocked. It didn't make sense why they would just drop me like that for something so minor without any kind of warning. I even worked until midnight on my 21st birthday, which was on a Friday.

But I didn't have time to sit around and think about it, I had to find a new job. I was furiously submitting my resume, interviewing, etc. About a week or so after being fired I got a voice mail and assumed it was an employer calling in reference to a submitted application or something. WRONG!

It was an FBI agent. Believe me when I say getting a call from the FBI will but a twist on a day that had been going pretty good.

His message said that he needed to speak with me and to call him back. He said that I wasn't in trouble, but that didn't help a whole lot. I know that LEO's say the same thing to get you to fess up before they can slap the cuffs on you. I probably shouldn't have called him back, but I did because I had to know what this was about. The anxiety was too much. I know FBI agents don't just call random people to chat. The voice mail also said something about "my previous employer" and "what was found on the computer".

So I call him back and he seems real nice. Almost overly nice. He surprised be pretty good when he said he had been reading my private messages from this site. That's when I realized where I made my mistake. I had downloaded my private messages to the work computer before I cleared my inbox because it was full. I was going to send the file to myself via email and then delete the file off my work hard drive but I forgot. Someone at work must have found the file and then reported it to management.

So, the FBI agents starts digging. He's asking me if I belong to any "militias" or "white supremacy groups". Funny how surfing gun related web sites automatically gets to put in the "loony extremist" category. I told him no, of course not.

We talked for maybe 10 minutes. It seemed like he was trying to say something that would raise up a red flag. For instance at one point he apologized and said he couldn't get me my job back ("Yeah, no s***", I was thinking). I said "I didn't think that's why you were calling me". He eagerly replied back with "Oh yeah, why did you think I was calling?", as if he thought I was going to incriminate myself about something.

Anyway, I guess he gave up because he said I was in the clear and seemed like a law-abiding "2nd Amendment advocate" like "many of the people here in my own office" and that "there's nothing wrong with that".

I guess what happened was my employers turned in the stuff they found to the local police. The police then contacted the FBI. I also want to note that this was BEFORE the Virginia Tech tragedy.

I was thinking about suing because I was obviously discriminated against. I guess my employers didn't like guns. It might say in the handbook that personal use of the computers is against the rules, but by letting employees get away with it they are implying that the rule is not enforced. So, in terminating me, they were selectively enforcing the rules. My landlord studied law and said I might have a good case if I decide to take it to court. However, I am not even going to bother with it. I have work, school, and the rest of my life to handle and that's enough for me.

So what I want to illustrate to you all is if you surf gun related sites, don't be surprised if you get a call from the FBI. Be careful where you leave your "pocket Constitutions" laying around, people might think you're a terrorist. Also, I would suggest that you be careful about revealing that you have an interest in firearms during casual conversations at work if you are not sure how your coworkers feel.

Neil McCauley
09-12-2007, 11:28 AM
Damn, that really sucks balls man. I think your advice is valid for those who are employed with corporate america.

CCWFacts
09-12-2007, 11:40 AM
There are real crimes, with victims, happening every day that are not properly investigated. That's where they should be putting their resources. Not looking at web forum postings.

ZapThyCat
09-12-2007, 11:41 AM
Wow (as I type from my work computer).

Welcome to the land of the paranoid. A pocket constitution gets you labeled as a terrorist. This isn't a country I want to raise my kids in. Unfortunately, none of the other ones fall into that catagory either :-/

Annie Oakley
09-12-2007, 11:43 AM
My gosh! What did you have in the files that frightened people so badly? I can't imagine someone getting fired for just talking about guns.

tman
09-12-2007, 11:46 AM
My gosh! What did you have in the files that frightened people so badly? I can't imagine someone getting fired for just talking about guns.I don't remember it was so long ago. Nothing illegal, I know that.

It was my PM's. I think there might have been a couple messages regarding disaster preparation. Other than that, probably just messages pertaining to the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.

BaronW
09-12-2007, 11:48 AM
My gosh! What did you have in the files that frightened people so badly? I can't imagine someone getting fired for just talking about guns.

It happens. http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-04-30

soopafly
09-12-2007, 11:48 AM
This is such BS from your ex-employer. Just becuase you are white and look at gun stuff on the web you are labeled a "white supremacist" or a "militia" member? Had you been black and surfing the exact same sites, they would have labeled you a "gang banger"...had you been middle eastern, they would have labeled you a "terrorist." WTF is the matter those 'wads? This is a blessing in disguise...you don't want to be working for those jackholes.

BTW, had you been Filipino, you would have been labeled "normal":p

Hoop
09-12-2007, 11:55 AM
I was thinking about suing because I was obviously discriminated against.



People get fired for internet usage all the time. I don't think you really have a case, unless they gave you specific permission to look at whatever you want. I was fired from Earthlink for looking up bass tabs during normal work hours.

I had a dual monitor setup, one side was walking a customer through dial-up software installation, the other side was busy looking for Angel of Death by SLAYER. Boss saw it, asked what it was, I said "uggghhhh...". Told me to close it out immediately and that I would have to speak with him later. Walked into his 'office', got my last check, and left.

Of course, I didn't get a call from the FBI either, but then people weren't near as paranoid 3-4 years ago as they are now.

DRM6000
09-12-2007, 11:57 AM
sorry to hear about your experience.

after reading all that, i realize how fortunate i am. i work in a small office managing a small property and my maintance guy and i chat about guns, cars and other guy stuff. my boss knows i have guns and she's cool with it. she grew up with guns around her since her father was a rancher. one day she even asked me if i would let her and her husband shoot some of my guns because they were thinking about buying a pistol for home defence.

i don't think she'd have a problem with me visiting calguns on the work computer, but she might have a fit if she knew how often i surf the net.

kalibear
09-12-2007, 12:02 PM
That sucks dude, I don't know what else to say. I hope the incident doesn't bite you in the long run.

My boss and coworkers all know I'm into guns and knives but I am still careful and discreet when I browse the forums. I always sign out and delete my cookies and internet history and check the registry too to delete unwanted urls. Always use Shift+delete keys when your deleting an image or file too so it don't sit in your Recycle Bin.

tman
09-12-2007, 12:05 PM
People get fired for internet usage all the time. I don't think you really have a case, unless they gave you specific permission to look at whatever you want. I was fired from Earthlink for looking up bass tabs during normal work hours.
Yeah, but you can't fire one person for surfing personal web sites and not anyone else. Like I said, another coworker surfed web sites unrelated to work and they just brushed it off as "she had permission" (yeah right).

Hoop
09-12-2007, 12:08 PM
i don't think she'd have a problem with me visiting calguns on the work computer, but she might have a fit if she knew how often i surf the net.

I've been to offices were the employees were drinking and looking up pron during work hours. It's all about the individual office & your coworkers. Some are just plain bad places to work at where people gossip like they're still in High School & tattle on each other to the boss.

PIRATE14
09-12-2007, 12:12 PM
I can tell you stories about a dozen guys.....and work related incidents to surfing......gun web sites.....

AJAX22
09-12-2007, 12:14 PM
What sucks is if our hobby was sucking **** we'd have grounds for a discrimination suit.

F'ing double standard I say

PistolPete75
09-12-2007, 12:16 PM
it's time to be your own boss. you don't have to deal with bullshxt like this.

carsonwales
09-12-2007, 12:45 PM
So, the FBI agents starts digging. He's asking me if I belong to any "militias" or "white supremacy groups". Funny how surfing gun related web sites automatically gets to put in the "loony extremist" category. I told him no, of course not. NEXT TIME YOU GET ASKED THE ABOVE, TRY THIS RESPONSE:

"Yes sir and no sir. As to the second part, I am not a white supremest...I am just an average white guy."

"As to the first part however I am a member of the 'unorganized militia', as perhaps are you?. According to Title 10 U.S.C. section 311, the 'unorganized militia' shall consist of all able bodied men who are between the ages of 17 and 45 who are, or who have made a declaration to become, United States Citizens, and are not otherwise members of the National Guard or standing armed forces of the United States of America, otherwise known as the 'organized militia'."

"I have not been called for duty, but stand ready, willing and able should the need arise and my President requires my service to defend this nation, it's Constitution and free people."

"Have you found Bin Laden yet?"

bwiese
09-12-2007, 12:46 PM
tman,

I would like you to recount this to the folks at TMLLP.com .

There may be nothing they can do (esp now) but perhaps a nastygram to your former employer may make things shake up a bit. Differential standards for web use etc is kinda interesting - esp as this is a politico-legal website. If the other workers were hitting Greenpeace and PETA or MoveOn, things get even more interesting. IT is true it's your former employer's computer, but setting different thresholds (politically correct, misuse of company resources is OK) vs your 'misuse' starts going into different territory.

glockman19
09-12-2007, 12:50 PM
A perfect example of a scared public and your tax dollars at work.

TBY
09-12-2007, 12:55 PM
I had a job where I surfed gun related websites (including Calguns) on my down time. Some people knew about it and they didn't care. I didn't hide it, but didn't freely expose myself either. Luckily the system admin was a cool guy from the South. Everytime he saw me he would smile and point.

tman
09-12-2007, 12:59 PM
tman,

I would like you to recount this to the folks at TMLLP.com .

There may be nothing they can do (esp now) but perhaps a nastygram to your former employer may make things shake up a bit. Differential standards for web use etc is kinda interesting - esp as this is a politico-legal website. If the other workers were hitting Greenpeace and PETA or MoveOn, things get even more interesting. IT is true it's your former employer's computer, but setting different thresholds (politically correct, misuse of company resources is OK) vs your 'misuse' starts going into different territory.
I'd be glad to contact them. I still have a recording of the original voice mail left by the FBI agent, if it would help at all.

AKman
09-12-2007, 1:01 PM
A few observations:

- As you all know, there is a general paranoia regarding guns. Add an interest in survivalist skills, and you become a real wacko. You all know the list. Heck, you're only one step from becoming Eric Rudolph.

- I recognize that many people that post here also post on boards that rail against illegal immigration (it is against the law you know?). In case you hadn't noticed, those in power want cheap illegal labor.

- Black rifle disease. As you all know, this is pushing the envelope in CA. As DOJ would state, "...it violates the spirit of the law." Most people here feel that the AW Ban violates the 2nd Amendment, not just the spirit. An awful lot of people don't think anyone "needs" a black rifle, nor should they own one. The brainwashing is almost complete.

- Don't take this wrong since I don't know what you did for a job, but having endless hours sitting around sort of shows a lack of initiative or a really lame employer.

So, put it all together, and it looks a little scary to the non-gun owning, uninformed masses. "We have a guy working for us that has guns, is interested in survivalist skills and just sits around all day chatting with a bunch of Nazis." "He even likes Ron Paul!!!!"

FYI, most companies have a little box somewhere in the office called a firewall that typically tracks things like websites hits and usage time by IP address (i.e., by each computer in the office). Big brother is watching even when I really don't care what people look at.

AKman
09-12-2007, 1:04 PM
Yeah, but you can't fire one person for surfing personal web sites and not anyone else. Like I said, another coworker surfed web sites unrelated to work and they just brushed it off as "she had permission" (yeah right).

Actually, I could fire your azz anytime I want as long as you don't fall into a protected category (minority, disabled, etc.) and I give you cause to think that was the reason.

carsonwales
09-12-2007, 1:05 PM
I'd be glad to contact them. I still have a recording of the original voice mail left by the FBI agent, if it would help at all.

Did the Agent inform you that you were being recorded or did you hear audible tones at set intervals during the course of your conversation?

Did the Agent indicate that he had 'retrieved' your computer data and log or he had viewed it on the premise of your employment?

Did the Agent indicate at all during the course of the conversation either by name or inference who he had prior contact with? (employer, local pd, employees)

How long was the conversation?

What time of day did it occur?

Was the number the agent left his direct line?

Was it a cell phone?

Did you record the conversation with him?

Do you have a copy of the logs or cache or private messages that may be saved on the calguns servers?

tman
09-12-2007, 1:28 PM
Did the Agent inform you that you were being recorded or did you hear audible tones at set intervals during the course of your conversation?No and no.


Did the Agent indicate that he had 'retrieved' your computer data and log or he had viewed it on the premise of your employment?Not sure what you mean...

Did the Agent indicate at all during the course of the conversation either by name or inference who he had prior contact with? (employer, local pd, employees) Police department.

How long was the conversation?Like I said, maybe 10 minutes.

What time of day did it occur?Not exactly sure, but I might be able to find out if it mattered.

Was the number the agent left his direct line?

Was it a cell phone?Well, he left two voice mail messages. The first he left his desk number. Then, he called back and left another message with his cell number because he said he would be away from his desk. I think I called him back on his cell. He said that he was in the middle of something and that he would call me right back and he did. Not sure which line he used.

Did you record the conversation with him?Nope. I just made a recording of the voice mail with my cellphone.

Do you have a copy of the logs or cache or private messages that may be saved on the calguns servers?Nope.

bwiese
09-12-2007, 1:30 PM
I'd be glad to contact them. I still have a recording of the original voice mail left by the FBI agent, if it would help at all.

YES! Can you MP3 the FBI recording and we post it here?
Whee!

Shane916
09-12-2007, 1:43 PM
Last year I got a job working at a front desk. It was an easy job with a lot of downtime so I was able to get homework and reading done. Great position to be in if you're a college student.

Where can I apply? j/k :) What school do you go to?

tman
09-12-2007, 1:45 PM
YES! Can you MP3 the FBI recording and we post it here?
Whee!I think so. I will try to post it up before I go to class tonight, otherwise I will post it tomorrow.

Where can I apply? j/k :) What school do you go to?ARC

WokMaster1
09-12-2007, 2:05 PM
I call BS on the FBI thing. FBI agents do not call over the phone & ask people questions like this. They come & visit you at home & ask you to make tea & crumpets & chat there.

You may have been duped by your employer, maybe their security dept who have nothing better to do or are just plain stupid.

If the police were called, get a police report & follow the lead back to the FBI, if there is any. Have you tried calling FBI field office & checking if there is such an agent? You can PM me the agent's name if it's someone in Santa Ana/LA field office.

eckerph
09-12-2007, 3:23 PM
You may have been duped by your employer, maybe their security dept who have nothing better to do or are just plain stupid.


That would be sweet, since thats pretty illegal to pretend you're an LEO when you're not. I had a friend who got her Internet privileges taken away because she was looking at swimsuits on Wal Mart website. The Air Force considered it porn!

tman
09-12-2007, 3:40 PM
I am having second thoughts about posting the MP3 here. I will at least PM it to bwiese, but I will have to think about it and decide whether or not I want to post it out in the open. I am not trying to "prove" my story to anyone, so believe me or don't, I don't really care. I'm just trying to share my story and hope it helps someone out. Besides, bwiese can confirm the message if he wants to, if I decide not to post it out in the open.

I know for sure I will be censoring out his name and phone number, though. If anyone wants that information they will have to contact me directly.

Giovani X
09-12-2007, 3:57 PM
If you got a call from the FBI, I would contact a attorney who can speak with them and have the report removed from the Federal files. Even the Agent himself said that you sounded like a lawful person. How about suing the employer for wrongful termination, and asking for the agent you spkoe with to act as an expert witness. Oh and by the way any time someone from the Alphabet gang calls your house, tell them that you will be recording the call in case any further questions arise, if they are calling you it's your right to do so as long as you let the other party know they are being recorded. Don't talk to anybody like this with out representation or a legal recording for back up. Good luck with this, and if you need representation send me a PM, I've got a Great White shark that fancies himself a Lawyer.

bwiese
09-12-2007, 4:00 PM
I am puzzled as to why the FBI got involved. This is a local/state issue primarily and is a stretch to get the feds involved though it is legally possible.

-hanko
09-12-2007, 4:18 PM
NEXT TIME YOU GET ASKED THE ABOVE, TRY THIS RESPONSE:

"Yes sir and no sir. As to the second part, I am not a white supremest...I am just an average white guy."

:D snipped :D

"I have not been called for duty, but stand ready, willing and able should the need arise and my President requires my service to defend this nation, it's Constitution and free people."

"Have you found Bin Laden yet?"
How's that response going to benefit tman??

-hanko

dfletcher
09-12-2007, 7:53 PM
I took your posting to mean the FBI agent left a voice message on your phone - correct? Just a layman's opinion but it seems to me anyone leaving a message on a machine obviously knows they are being recorded, what you do with it is up to you. Play it for yourself, in front of friends or on the net.

HillBilly
09-12-2007, 8:04 PM
Yeah, but you can't fire one person for surfing personal web sites and not anyone else. Like I said, another coworker surfed web sites unrelated to work and they just brushed it off as "she had permission" (yeah right).


You better believe you can. I am an IT manager in a 480 employee company. Many employees have different levels of access. Our receptionists, for example, are NEVER to be on personal sites because they are surrounded by non-employees, they need to focus on phone handling, and most of all, because we say so. They are told this from the beginning, and if it's a problem, they are right in front of the door. Some salesmen can do whatever they want because they sold 10 million raw last year, etc. Welcome to employment at will. It has nothing to do with calguns in my opinion (especially because I don't believe the FBI thing). While you are on company time, you follow the rules, regardless of how bored you are. We fired an employee for looking at a cooking site habitually just a few weeks ago.

I am surprised others seem to think you have any case whatsoever. You don't. It's not discrimination, it is what you specifically are allowed to do in your position. I would have fired you too. ;)

Charliegone
09-12-2007, 9:14 PM
Hey bro, it's like I say.

**** em'. If they'd rather higher a mj smoking crack head (or some lazy bum), let them...their lost.

This happened to me.

Boss: hey do you like guns?
Me: Yeah.
Boss: Oh. Cool.

Seriously, he had no problems...that's the good thing about working in smaller offices.:cool2:

Jarhead4
09-12-2007, 9:35 PM
I already feel like a criminal in this state because I own guns, and this support why I feel that way. It shouldn’t be that way!! Ignorance is our biggest enemy. Ignorance breads fear, and fear breads hatred.

Jarhead4
09-12-2007, 9:36 PM
I am puzzled as to why the FBI got involved. This is a local/state issue primarily and is a stretch to get the feds involved though it is legally possible.

It was because the internet was involved.

monkey
09-12-2007, 9:37 PM
I find it interesting that the recent Calguns-related law enforcement actions all seem to happen to college students: AJAX22 R SMC, tman here, Matthew Corwin, etc...

jimx
09-12-2007, 9:56 PM
You better believe you can. I am an IT manager in a 480 employee company. Many employees have different levels of access. Our receptionists, for example, are NEVER to be on personal sites because they are surrounded by non-employees, they need to focus on phone handling, and most of all, because we say so. They are told this from the beginning, and if it's a problem, they are right in front of the door. Some salesmen can do whatever they want because they sold 10 million raw last year, etc. Welcome to employment at will. It has nothing to do with calguns in my opinion (especially because I don't believe the FBI thing). While you are on company time, you follow the rules, regardless of how bored you are. We fired an employee for looking at a cooking site habitually just a few weeks ago.

I am surprised others seem to think you have any case whatsoever. You don't. It's not discrimination, it is what you specifically are allowed to do in your position. I would have fired you too. ;)

That is something that both employers and employees often forget – Employment in California is “AT WILL”.

I am in agreement with most of what you said. I have a small company, 20 employees. And have had problems with people on the net. Even had to install key loggers:( Big Brother? No, not at all. Go ahead and check your e-mail, scores, etc. But I had a guy getting $30+ an hour and surfing 3+ hours a day on dating and teen porn sites. After I wrote him up, he did not stop. Soon after we had RIF, after all we are an “At Will” company.

But Tman was termed for cause! They have no At Will protection. Tman is also correct that you have to treat everyone equally or it is discrimination. Your example of different rules between receptionists and salesmen is legal. If all the receptionists used the net and you only discipline one you would be asking for trouble. I was firmly warned against disciplining someone that was coming in late 2x a week because I was letting others come in late by my Employment Practices Insurer.

I’m guessing tree hugging is ok but guns are NSFW? I don’t know if you have a case but it doesn’t cost anything to talk to a lawyer to see if you do.

BTW - while I would have handled it differently, I would have also let you go.

rod
09-13-2007, 7:53 AM
I'm saying this as a joke but ...tman, did you work for the BoF? and get fired for sleeping with the enemy?:D

tgriffin
09-13-2007, 9:11 AM
Makes me very very thankful that I work for a very pro-2A company. Lots of ex-military in the top brass and CEO carries a Kimber Carry religiously :D

Charliegone
09-13-2007, 1:33 PM
I find it interesting that the recent Calguns-related law enforcement actions all seem to happen to college students: AJAX22 R SMC, tman here, Matthew Corwin, etc...

We are easy targets that's why. That's why I don't post, read, etc anything gun related at school...too many stupid people walking around thinking something else.

pnkssbtz
09-13-2007, 2:05 PM
You better believe you can. I am an IT manager in a 480 employee company. Many employees have different levels of access. Our receptionists, for example, are NEVER to be on personal sites because they are surrounded by non-employees, they need to focus on phone handling, and most of all, because we say so. They are told this from the beginning, and if it's a problem, they are right in front of the door. Some salesmen can do whatever they want because they sold 10 million raw last year, etc. Welcome to employment at will. It has nothing to do with calguns in my opinion (especially because I don't believe the FBI thing). While you are on company time, you follow the rules, regardless of how bored you are. We fired an employee for looking at a cooking site habitually just a few weeks ago.
While you are an I.T. manager, being an IT manger or even a LEO does not mean you know the law. And is often the case that Management and LEO's do in fact not have quite a firm grasp on the technicalities as they think they do.


I've bolded an area in your post which is what allows your company policy to persist: prior notification and agreement to terms in exchange for employment.


TMan's case as I see it (IANAL) would revolve around two aspects, first being transparency of company policy.

This would require TMan to review the company handbook, or any such documents he signed when starting employment there. He would be looking for the company policy in regards to personal computer use.

Second, did he receive a memo or notice, or was there a sign stating that such personal use is restricted?

If no such notification was given to TMan then he cannot be fired for an unwritten policy that he was never notified about.

Thus he would have standing.



The second area is discrimination and is much trickier.

TMan would have to file suit, and do a discovery to find out if the other coworkers he observed had written permission to use the computer for personal use. If the other employees did not have permission, why were they not terminated like TMan? Here is where the lawyer would link the nature of the personal use to the motivation for termination of employment. If no such documentation exists, then he possibly could possibly have standing for discrimination.

This is where a Lawyer would come in.



Lastly, in regards to the companies access to his data, and turning it over to the FBI:

There is a term called 'Consent by Exception.' It is basically like a click-through EULA for offices.

By them notifying you, and your continued employment (at your will) you are agreeing to the terms being stated. That is, by you not quitting you are agreeing that they can read any company email and any such data you store on their hardware/computers.

If no such terms were layed out, even though you have files on their computer those files are confidential and they had no right to access them. They were to destroy whatever copy they had. Just as if they received a personal letter addressed to your name. Just because it arrived at their work, if it is addressed to you personally they have no right to open it. (Else I could be opening and taking mail sent to the wrong address).

Fjold
09-13-2007, 2:26 PM
In regards to computer files. Any files on a company computer is considered as available to the company to do with as they please. That is drilled into us in our corporate law classes every year.

They beat us over the head with "Email is discoverable and anything on the company computers is company property."


As far as mail goes if mail is delivered to the company with the company's name on it, even if it also has your name on it, the company can open it. The USPS says that two names on the envelope is 'or', not 'and'.

pnkssbtz
09-13-2007, 3:04 PM
In regards to computer files. Any files on a company computer is considered as available to the company to do with as they please. That is drilled into us in our corporate law classes every year.

They beat us over the head with "Email is discoverable and anything on the company computers is company property."DMCA can conflict with this. If the file is encrypted or compressed, then defeating the encryption/compression violates DMCA.

I.E. if it has electronic measures that do not make it readily accessable and must be altered/extrapolated in order to gain access, then the DMCA protects it.

Without permission its a black box that you can only delete, barring limited circumstances.

Otherwise, I download some music file with copy protection, and once it touches my companies hard drive, the company can do with it whatever they want because it is now their property?

Not quite...

As to company email accounts and privacy. It all comes down to consent by exception which is SEPARATE from discovery. Consent by Exception is the bypass to privacy protections allowing for the reading of personal emails. However notification of the lack of such privacy is required prior to any invasive actions. Otherwise the employee can claim a reasonable expectation of privacy.

As far as routed data stored on a storage medium; there are limited allowances for access to said data. Again by your description, if I have a server that does routing of mail traffic, since your mail/files are now on my hard drive. Those files/data are MY PROPERTY TO DO WITH AS I PLEASE.

Erm... no. Doesn't work that way.

As far as mail goes if mail is delivered to the company with the company's name on it, even if it also has your name on it, the company can open it. The USPS says that two names on the envelope is 'or', not 'and'.Correct, which is why I stated PERSONAL mail. And gave an example of receiving the neighbor's mail.

ibanezfoo
09-13-2007, 3:22 PM
Good thing I'm the guy who monitors all the web access here :D I see tree huggers and hippies reading their lib crap all the time. I don't block it, though sometimes I think I'd be helping the future of America by blocking access. :) Only recently has someone tried to drop the "who polices the polices" stuff on me.... it was a manager who thinks he's an Ultra Kool Dood and I blocked his internet access entireley for wasting time and trying to bypass our filters to get to blocked sites (myspace, etc). Good thing most of the people at this company are right wingers that are into shooting and whatnot. Hell, the CEO even brought a loaded revolver to work that he didn't know how to operate and my wife had to unload it and teach him.

-Bryan

tman
09-13-2007, 8:07 PM
I am wondering if the police report has the file that they found on the computer. I know they must of read it before contacting the FBI.

Next, I guess I will see about going down and retrieving it.

Also, is it possible to request your FBI files? I thought it was as long as it wasn't a "threat to national security" or something along those lines.

Yankee Clipper
09-13-2007, 8:43 PM
I am wondering if the police report has the file that they found on the computer. I know they must of read it before contacting the FBI.

Next, I guess I will see about going down and retrieving it.

Also, is it possible to request your FBI files? I thought it was as long as it wasn't a "threat to national security" or something along those lines.

At least call your local FBI office and ask for the agent you talked to by name. Verify that there is such an agent. At this point, it doesn't sound that's a given.

xenophobe
09-13-2007, 10:15 PM
In California, if you have not been employed for more than 3 years, they can fire you for whatever reason they want, it's what they say they are firing you for that can get them in trouble though.

jimx
09-13-2007, 11:30 PM
In California, if you have not been employed for more than 3 years, they can fire you for whatever reason they want, it's what they say they are firing you for that can get them in trouble though.


California is an AT WILL state. One day or 30 years it makes no difference!
No reason is needed. You can quit and the company can term you at any time…
People often think they cannot get legally terminated for no reason. That is wrong because you can!
The only time you need to give a reason is when you want to fight the employee’s EDD.
As long as it not due to race, creed, religion you are good to go. I.e. if you let 10 blacks go leaving you with a all white company you are looking for trouble.

Shane916
09-13-2007, 11:33 PM
I think so. I will try to post it up before I go to class tonight, otherwise I will post it tomorrow.

ARC

Nice, I was once a Beaver as well! :D Doesn't sound right.. ehh :)