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msnm
01-21-2013, 5:37 AM
i am a new manufacturer and havent really done alot of market research. im in the Army, transitioning out back into the real world. i am 25 this coming june, so i am just really interested in how much ammo people buy. i just bought a Camndex machine and am awaiting assembly and delivery. this may be a good time to figure out how much time it will take to get me out of the hole. i will just auto load 556 and hand load pistol calibers for now... good old dillion press. i want to sell 100k rounds a month, i plan to actually get this damn website up and running, and hopefully get on ammo seek as well. i jumped in with both feet and am not nervous at all, just a little scared out of my mind lol.

rough layout of prices once im in full swing...all per 1k

556 -350
9mm -225
.40sw- -300
45 - -320

all jacketed of course, most likely all hollows, i just like to load hollows lol.

any feedback is great please let me know.. with online and local sales aka calguns, craigslist ect... do you think i will make 100k goal each month? ASSUMING i can keep up with the orders that is... maybe 50k? just wondering who buys what. i will prob just end up throwing it out there on the market and seeing whats what. i am out of operation as i am in El Paso Tx and moving back to Sacramento, all my equip is in route home and i have to get re zoned back in cali, it will be a while. thanks again guys

nsnm

rromeo
01-21-2013, 8:38 AM
Tell you what, I'll buy 3,000 of each at those prices,

msnm
01-21-2013, 8:45 AM
Tell you what, I'll buy 3,000 of each at those prices,

Sounds Good! when im legally re established back in norcal, ill be sure to keep your reply in mind! all my stuff is packed up right now. so im out of commition for a few minutes : (

balmo
01-21-2013, 9:04 AM
2k of 9mm for me.

itisagoodname
01-21-2013, 9:29 AM
You'll be able to sell anything you can make if you can get the components to fill the orders.

Make sure your website shows TRUE stock numbers as you will be permanently sold out of everything you can make.

With that being said, i'll take 2k of the 556, 1k of the 9mm and 1k of the 45acp.

DColvin209
01-21-2013, 9:36 AM
I'd take at least 1k of everything but the .40.

CSACANNONEER
01-21-2013, 9:50 AM
It's hard to make a living reloading bulk common cartridges. This is a good time to be in the business IF you have an excellent supply line already established. But, that doesn't happen with start up companies. More than a few here have tried, established a decent customer base and then failed. Freakshow and Jack Ross are two examples. Good luck in your venture. But, realistically, be prepared to fail unless, you find a niche market to tap.

jarhead714
01-21-2013, 9:59 AM
Good luck to you brother. If once you get rolling and you expand to include 762 NAT0 hit me back. I'd take 2k rounds for sure! I think it's great you're already set up for post service life. Right on man.

101st Airborne
01-21-2013, 10:09 AM
I'll take 1k 9mm.

Mr. Gillious
01-21-2013, 10:44 AM
I'll take 1,000 of 9mm, 40SW and 45ACP. Serious

ElDub1950
01-21-2013, 10:57 AM
Seems like the biggest failure is when startups get all excited taking orders then eventually figure out there's no way in hell they can fill the order. And worse, they take the order, charge the buyer's cc then 'something' happens and they can't fill the order and can't refund the money.

That's pissed off a lot of buyers. I'd say don't accept orders for anything you don't have on the shelf ready to ship.

Glock31B
01-21-2013, 11:03 AM
TAG because I will take the 556 and 40 when up and running!!!!
Where is NorCal are you gonna be in PM me.

msnm
01-21-2013, 11:07 AM
Seems like the biggest failure is when startups get all excited taking orders then eventually figure out there's no way in hell they can fill the order. And worse, they take the order, charge the buyer's cc then 'something' happens and they can't fill the order and can't refund the money.

That's pissed off a lot of buyers. I'd say don't accept orders for anything you don't have on the shelf ready to ship.

i have also been burned MANY times this way and it is the worse. i agree, that it is horrible business practice. it will be a challenge taking web orders, since i would have to baby sit the damn thing all the time updating stock quantities and all. i will just have to figure it out as i go. maybe just start with f2f meetings from here and CL (whoops). but hey, it is what it is. maybe phone orders? i dont know. blahhh

OHOD
01-21-2013, 1:27 PM
Niche market. Out price Hornady on their unique cartridges and you will have a solid c&r buyer base.
Arisaka
Carcano
Obscure cowboy cartrdges
To name a few.

Flowmini98
01-21-2013, 3:06 PM
I will take:
1k 556/223
1k 9mm
1k .40 s&w
1k .45acp

Rucku5
01-21-2013, 4:04 PM
1k 556/223 here! Thanks!

spetsnaz
01-21-2013, 4:06 PM
when can we purchase? also will fmj's be reloaded?

WL5629
01-21-2013, 5:15 PM
Put me down for 2k 556 and 1k 40... Good luck to you..... I'm about 90 min
north of Sac, so you would not have to ship......... Bill

Can'thavenuthingood
01-21-2013, 5:18 PM
Seems like the biggest failure is when startups get all excited taking orders then eventually figure out there's no way in hell they can fill the order. And worse, they take the order, charge the buyer's cc then 'something' happens and they can't fill the order and can't refund the money.

That's pissed off a lot of buyers. I'd say don't accept orders for anything you don't have on the shelf ready to ship.

Yes, this to the extreme.
Don't take back orders period.

You might ought to start now ordering your supplies and get them pre positioned.
Stay off CL, you have a ready made market here as long as you can keep a positive customer service reputation.

We have a CGSSA (http://cgssa.org/) Chapter up in Sac that will keep you busy. In fact there are a couple of outfits up there you may be able to strike up a deal and utilize the facilities in a partnership style setup. Get rolling sooner without ALL the headaches.

You will no doubt have an interesting adventure with the Planning Commission and various Zoning laws/rules (that's code for 'bring money').

You have been in business in El Paso, Tx? Have you a track record of sales? Are you loading to SAMMI specs? Are you a member?

The closest thing we have to El Paso is Arizona. Since Sac is home you might setup shop in Nevada, UPS still delivers ammo here.

Still, keep ordering your supplies and get them on site somewhere.

I am looking forward to your success:thumbsup:

Vick

msnm
01-21-2013, 5:59 PM
Yes, this to the extreme.
Don't take back orders period.

You might ought to start now ordering your supplies and get them pre positioned.
Stay off CL, you have a ready made market here as long as you can keep a positive customer service reputation.

We have a CGSSA (http://cgssa.org/) Chapter up in Sac that will keep you busy. In fact there are a couple of outfits up there you may be able to strike up a deal and utilize the facilities in a partnership style setup. Get rolling sooner without ALL the headaches.

You will no doubt have an interesting adventure with the Planning Commission and various Zoning laws/rules (that's code for 'bring money').

You have been in business in El Paso, Tx? Have you a track record of sales? Are you loading to SAMMI specs? Are you a member?

The closest thing we have to El Paso is Arizona. Since Sac is home you might setup shop in Nevada, UPS still delivers ammo here.

Still, keep ordering your supplies and get them on site somewhere.

I am looking forward to your success:thumbsup:

Vick

lots of questions here lol but all for my benefit no doubt!
i have not been tracking my sales really, mostly been to friends and family out this way, yes SAMMI specs, not a member? that i am aware of anyways. i have been thinking of setting up in reno as its not far...but i talked to the sacramento chapter of the ATF and i will be ok on my land...looking between sac and san fran... lots of farming acrage. but anyways, they said that it is not strict on building codes anyways, i think that the storage of hazmat and flammable will be the issue? i talked to the manager of sac valley range and tried to throw a potential sales pitch at them, nice guy that said he wants to meet up, not high hopes but you never know, right? CL is kind of below the belt, and i know that. but whatever puts food on the table. im retiring from the army so i will have a steady income either way, and i have my BA already so thas out of the way too. so i have nothing but time ...i wish money, but i will make it happen! i hope anyways that is. keep it coming.

Nxd9ar15xcrL
01-21-2013, 6:18 PM
Good Luck!

I won't place any orders at the moment, but i wish you the best.

vintagearms
01-21-2013, 6:23 PM
When you have product in hand and tested, Im down for 3-5k of .223/5.56.

SB61
01-21-2013, 7:05 PM
Well, for a bench mark Freedom Munitions did 8 million rounds a month before the rush.........

jmust1991
01-21-2013, 8:31 PM
Save my reply- I am in for:
3k 9mm
1k 45
1k 223

msnm
01-22-2013, 3:20 AM
Well, for a bench mark Freedom Munitions did 8 million rounds a month before the rush.........

yeah, thats not in my business plan just yet lol. thats a bit heavy for a one man show. my realistic number is about 100k a month combined calibers. 50 of it being 556

QueenBee
01-22-2013, 6:15 AM
I'd be in for 2k of the 40 and 1k of the 556. Let me know when you're up and running! Best of luck to you.

joker8baller
01-22-2013, 6:25 AM
I'd be interested in 1k of the 9mm.

Katch
01-22-2013, 7:40 PM
Put me down for 2k 556 and 1k 40... Good luck to you..... I'm about 90 min
north of Sac, so you would not have to ship......... Bill

First post and joined 2.5 years ago! MSNM, that should tell you about demand right now.

1320
01-22-2013, 8:00 PM
if the price is accurate and item is instock i am ready to purchase:
4k of 223
2k 9mm
1k 40

gwgn02
01-22-2013, 9:17 PM
no love for .308?

GreekPT
01-22-2013, 9:39 PM
1) Thank you for your service!
2) 2K 5.56, 1K .45
3) Good luck to you!!

Brunoboy
01-22-2013, 10:27 PM
In for 1k 5.56/.223 Aha located in San Francisco. Lmk what's up!

04slogoat
01-22-2013, 10:39 PM
Tagged.You better not edit your prices! In for 2k .556 1k .45! Quote my post with prices on this thread. Just in case!

msnm
01-23-2013, 3:19 AM
First post and joined 2.5 years ago! MSNM, that should tell you about demand right now.

LOL ! you guys are all awesome. i have a couple of Dillon 1050s now, i load small scale, about10-20k pistol a week. i had 25K 556 READY TO GO and it all sold like...immediately. i am not into charging panic prices AT ANY TIME. distributor prices have NOT gone up, so why would mine? i am aiming for long term customers. not just get in some cheap shots whille the getting is good. EXAMPLE i just sold some 30 rd MAGAZINE "KITS" i had to go up a little because my supply went up, but at $13 each you cant tell me thats a horrible deal. just need a few dollars in the fund for MORE EQUIPMENT!! yay.

msnm
01-23-2013, 3:23 AM
Tagged.You better not edit your prices! In for 2k .556 1k .45! Quote my post with prices on this thread. Just in case!

556 -350
9mm -225
.40sw- -300
45 - -320

suck it! lol im just kidding. but i feel these prices are fair. and im sure at some point in time they will have to go up, but until MY price for the COMPONENTS becomes outrageous, it wont happen so no worries. after this all blows over (i hope) everything will go back to normal and my prices will be considered moderate instead of great. so i see no need to raise them. too much politics for me. im 25 this summer, i have a wonderful wife, and i dont do this for the money, dont get me wrong, the money is great. but as a Disabled Vet, i just do it because there is no one else out there doing it the right way. i believe i CAN do it better, and i believe i AM doing it better. i am a ONE MAN SHOW that loves using all caps hehe, but i have low overhead so i am not going to charge like i have a high overhead.

A-J
01-23-2013, 6:19 AM
Assuming you can meet demand, you should have no problem selling a crap-ton of ammo. The problem is getting the materials to do so, and having sufficient production to meet the demand.

04slogoat
01-23-2013, 6:53 AM
556 -350
9mm -225
.40sw- -300
45 - -320

suck it! lol im just kidding. but i feel these prices are fair. and im sure at some point in time they will have to go up, but until MY price for the COMPONENTS becomes outrageous, it wont happen so no worries. after this all blows over (i hope) everything will go back to normal and my prices will be considered moderate instead of great. so i see no need to raise them. too much politics for me. im 25 this summer, i have a wonderful wife, and i dont do this for the money, dont get me wrong, the money is great. but as a Disabled Vet, i just do it because there is no one else out there doing it the right way. i believe i CAN do it better, and i believe i AM doing it better. i am a ONE MAN SHOW that loves using all caps hehe, but i have low overhead so i am not going to charge like i have a high overhead.

Well, let me know if you want sone help. I work for you and you can pay me in ammo. How's that? Willing to help one of my brothers in arms!

Jungroth
01-23-2013, 10:55 AM
You didn't ask for it, but I'm going to give you some advice. I'm also 24, and have been running my own business for the last two years. I own a flight school with two airplanes, three other instructors, and a full time office manager. We're planning on adding another airplane this year, and things are going well.

All my advice is take it or leave it, and probably worth what you paid for it.

If you can stay at your location in Sacramento, definitely do that. Seems like it will keep you overhead much lower.

Sounds you already have part of a website. If you don't, and you're at all good with computers, consider a wordpress site. Here's a nice theme that's absolutely worth every penny: http://themeforest.net/item/striking-premium-corporate-portfolio-wp-theme/128763

If you don't have a web host already, I really like Dreamhost. Also make sure you're backing up your site.

I've never used wordpress as an e-commerce platform, I hear it's not great for that. Which brings me to my next point:

Don't even worry about online orders and stock. You're right, you'd be at the computer all the damn time updating stock. If I was you, I'd make a simple website with a page for each of your types of ammo and a page about you and where you make it. Your customer base loves that kind of stuff.

On every ammo page is the current estimated wait time for that ammo. Also on every page is a contact form where someone can type in what they'd like, name, phone number, email and how they'd like to be contacted. Every morning, transfer the data in the emails in to a spreadsheet. Then make ammo all day.

Once you've made someone's order, send them an email with an invoice from Google wallet. Paypal sucks, so use Google. How do you do that? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=53026

Maybe also give them a phone call (only if they're okay with that. People can be private about everything). They then have 48 hours to pay up and you'll ship it out. If they don't pay in that time, it just goes on to the next person.

With this set up, you'll never have to worry about shopping cart software. You won't have to set up a credit card merchant (which is an expensive PITA), you can just use Google. Your in person orders, online and phone orders will all integrate well. Everything just goes into that spreadsheet (which you're backing up right?). Also makes it easy if you hire anyone to help in production.

You're not going to be able to go toe to toe with some giant manufacturer. Beat them on service and simplicity.

As a personal not, I would also not bring up your age. It can really only hurt you, that's been my experience. Also, start typing better. Get some punctuation and capitalization in there.

Resources:

The Small Business Start-Up Kit for California. An amazing book for getting started with the legal ins and outs of starting a business.
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Business-Start-Up-Kit-California/dp/1413316824

The One Page Business Plan. A fun book (if it's not fun, you shouldn't be starting your own business) that will help you get everything out of your head and down on paper.
http://www.amazon.com/Page-Business-Plan-Creative-Entrepreneur/dp/1891315099

The Personal MBA: Mastering the Art of Business . This will help inspire for the soft skills of running a business. Pick it up, read three pages, integrate it in to your business. Repeat.
http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358970208&sr=1-1&keywords=personal+mba

I wouldn't worry about any other books on business for a while. There's a lot of crap out there.

Dropbox is the cheapest way (free) to back up your important files. http://www.dropbox.com/

Don't want to pay for Excel? Use OpenOffice (free).
http://www.openoffice.org/

These sort of businesses (small time ammo manufacturing, small flight schools) fail all of the time because people don't run them like a real business. Don't make that mistake, and I really think you could do well. Good luck!

mtnhrdgr2
01-23-2013, 1:17 PM
rough layout of prices once im in full swing...all per 1k

556 -350
9mm -225
.40sw- -300
45 - -320

all jacketed of course, most likely all hollows, i just like to load hollows lol.



For jacketed hollows, I'd take 1K of the .40sw as a first order. Let us know when you are up and running. Once I have had a chance to put these rounds through my glock and S2K (and also with a buddy's other 40s) with no/little issues, then I will buy more.

Good luck to you sir!

ElDub1950
01-23-2013, 1:21 PM
Eager to see quality review from first buyers.

As long as they have good ratings, I'll be in.

WDN41
01-23-2013, 3:19 PM
Prices look good, realisticly maybe too good. If your capacity is only 100,000
rounds per month, Sacramento County residents will consume that much
before mid month. don't become another Jack Ross. Gun stores around here
are numerous, Bet I could sell them all 100 k in just a few days. Tomorrow,
I could probably do that by noon, Judging from what is available out there

P345
01-23-2013, 3:44 PM
I know I will take some....

highcenter
01-23-2013, 4:44 PM
I'm in... A steady & reasonably priced source in Sacramento would be great

PatrickRyan
01-23-2013, 4:52 PM
I'd take 1k of the .40 and drive to Sacramento every time I need ammo with prices like that. You have my business when you're up and running.

msnm
01-23-2013, 7:13 PM
Well, let me know if you want sone help. I work for you and you can pay me in ammo. How's that? Willing to help one of my brothers in arms!

honestly, it may come down to it. always looking for a little help around the shop. i have a buddy that i pretty much do the same thing with. he comes by time to time : ) of course to the ATF and the IRS you are a contractor, not an employee hehe

msnm
01-23-2013, 7:40 PM
You didn't ask for it, but I'm going to give you some advice. I'm also 24, and have been running my own business for the last two years. I own a flight school with two airplanes, three other instructors, and a full time office manager. We're planning on adding another airplane this year, and things are going well.

All my advice is take it or leave it, and probably worth what you paid for it.
zz
If you can stay at your location in Sacramento, definitely do that. Seems like it will keep you overhead much lower.

Sounds you already have part of a website. If you don't, and you're at all good with computers, consider a wordpress site. Here's a nice theme that's absolutely worth every penny: http://themeforest.net/item/striking-premium-corporate-portfolio-wp-theme/128763

To sum it up in brief, thank you. this is the kind of open and honest stuff i was looking for, i know my grammar and punctuation represents my perceived intelligence level...but on here i don't tend to it much. its my weakness. thank you so much for all of the great links, i have exel already for free but ill deff let friends in need know about it. too much to thank for one by one, but know i read every post and take it all to heart. and i have been taking notes from other people's experiences as well.

If you don't have a web host already, I really like Dreamhost. Also make sure you're backing up your site.

I've never used wordpress as an e-commerce platform, I hear it's not great for that. Which brings me to my next point:

Don't even worry about online orders and stock. You're right, you'd be at the computer all the damn time updating stock. If I was you, I'd make a simple website with a page for each of your types of ammo and a page about you and where you make it. Your customer base loves that kind of stuff.

On every ammo page is the current estimated wait time for that ammo. Also on every page is a contact form where someone can type in what they'd like, name, phone number, email and how they'd like to be contacted. Every morning, transfer the data in the emails in to a spreadsheet. Then make ammo all day.

Once you've made someone's order, send them an email with an invoice from Google wallet. Paypal sucks, so use Google. How do you do that? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=53026

Maybe also give them a phone call (only if they're okay with that. People can be private about everything). They then have 48 hours to pay up and you'll ship it out. If they don't pay in that time, it just goes on to the next person.

With this set up, you'll never have to worry about shopping cart software. You won't have to set up a credit card merchant (which is an expensive PITA), you can just use Google. Your in person orders, online and phone orders will all integrate well. Everything just goes into that spreadsheet (which you're backing up right?). Also makes it easy if you hire anyone to help in production.

You're not going to be able to go toe to toe with some giant manufacturer. Beat them on service and simplicity.

As a personal not, I would also not bring up your age. It can really only hurt you, that's been my experience. Also, start typing better. Get some punctuation and capitalization in there.

Resources:

The Small Business Start-Up Kit for California. An amazing book for getting started with the legal ins and outs of starting a business.
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Business-Start-Up-Kit-California/dp/1413316824

The One Page Business Plan. A fun book (if it's not fun, you shouldn't be starting your own business) that will help you get everything out of your head and down on paper.
http://www.amazon.com/Page-Business-Plan-Creative-Entrepreneur/dp/1891315099

The Personal MBA: Mastering the Art of Business . This will help inspire for the soft skills of running a business. Pick it up, read three pages, integrate it in to your business. Repeat.
http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358970208&sr=1-1&keywords=personal+mba

I wouldn't worry about any other books on business for a while. There's a lot of crap out there.

Dropbox is the cheapest way (free) to back up your important files. http://www.dropbox.com/

Don't want to pay for Excel? Use OpenOffice (free).
http://www.openoffice.org/

These sort of businesses (small time ammo manufacturing, small flight schools) fail all of the time because people don't run them like a real business. Don't make that mistake, and I really think you could do well. Good luck!

zzzz

Sketti
01-24-2013, 4:34 PM
zzzz

:facepalm:

Cypriss32
01-24-2013, 9:20 PM
IF u get ok-ed Ill drop up and buy 1k of each of what you sell. Then do a review after I shoot them threw all mine and friends guns. Then people will order your stuff.

Noggles
01-24-2013, 9:31 PM
I'll take 250,000 of each.

taio
01-27-2013, 2:11 AM
2k 9mm for me.
how many of each can you produce in a month?
with the ammo shortage we are seeing, i am sure you will receive lots of orders as long as you are able to get the words out therr.

layfz450
01-28-2013, 5:43 PM
i will take 2 k of 9mm for sure :)

chrisn
01-29-2013, 8:50 AM
As long as initial reviews are decent, I'll take 2K of 556 and 1K each of the others.

What about .308? Market demand/prices are high at the moment.

msnm
01-29-2013, 9:09 AM
308 is just too backordered and expensive, im looking to get components cheap, load, and sell for cheap... just not in the market for it yet!

msnm
01-29-2013, 9:10 AM
2k 9mm for me.
how many of each can you produce in a month?
with the ammo shortage we are seeing, i am sure you will receive lots of orders as long as you are able to get the words out therr.

since school full time is my first priority, im thinking like 10k of each/month. maybe more if i have time..

msnm
01-29-2013, 9:13 AM
IF u get ok-ed Ill drop up and buy 1k of each of what you sell. Then do a review after I shoot them threw all mine and friends guns. Then people will order your stuff.

i am fully set up and licensed in TX. i just have to file an address change, and im good to go after i get zoned again. wasnt hard the first time. doubt it will be hard the second time lol.

but on a better note, other than here, i am not planning to advertise, word of mouth will have to be it. i am going to school full time and this is kind of a hobby for me. i load about 10k each now, and thats working full time on top of it... so i dunno what i will actually pump out. hopefully more : ) i have happy customers here hehe. theres no TEXGUNS.net sadly :(,

but i look forward to your reviews, good, bad, ugly, sexy, all of it. cant get better without honest reviews.

Mr.1904
01-29-2013, 9:21 AM
Put me down for 1k of 556

aliphian
01-29-2013, 9:35 AM
As long as somebody can vouch for quality I will get all my 9mm from you. I got a bunch of friends that shoot 9mm too. I am only a couple hours away from Sac. Can't wait until you are up and running. All the best.

msnm
01-29-2013, 9:49 AM
As long as somebody can vouch for quality I will get all my 9mm from you. I got a bunch of friends that shoot 9mm too. I am only a couple hours away from Sac. Can't wait until you are up and running. All the best.

my official tester of my ammo is phrogg111 on here. he also has a youtube channel, check it out. .. free firearms training on youtube. amateur video's, but he is a good guy. and a good shot.

diveRN
01-29-2013, 10:08 AM
A little market info since you're (going to be) in Sac.

I bought 4K of .40s&w 180gr FMJ commercially reloaded ammo from Redline Ballistics (via a gun show) for $230/k two days before Sandy Hook. 9mm was under $200 per 1k. I didn't buy any then, but IIRC, .45acp was priced just under $300 per 1k... all calibers come with a cheap plastic ammo can. RLB isn't real high quality stuff and I've had a few issues with their rounds, but it's sufficient for range practice and plinking.

Ammodepot and other shops in Sac also sell Redline ammo at little to no markup as compared to the gun show, which tells me that dealers get wholesale pricing. The wholesale market is also viable if you can supply sufficient quantities.

Edit:

Well, Calguns be slow. I never saw your above posts.

thefil
01-29-2013, 5:22 PM
If you don't, and you're at all good with computers, consider a wordpress site. Here's a nice theme that's absolutely worth every penny: http://themeforest.net/item/striking-premium-corporate-portfolio-wp-theme/128763

If you don't have a web host already, I really like Dreamhost. Also make sure you're backing up your site.

Resources:

The Small Business Start-Up Kit for California. An amazing book for getting started with the legal ins and outs of starting a business.
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Business-Start-Up-Kit-California/dp/1413316824

The One Page Business Plan. A fun book (if it's not fun, you shouldn't be starting your own business) that will help you get everything out of your head and down on paper.
http://www.amazon.com/Page-Business-Plan-Creative-Entrepreneur/dp/1891315099

The Personal MBA: Mastering the Art of Business . This will help inspire for the soft skills of running a business. Pick it up, read three pages, integrate it in to your business. Repeat.
http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358970208&sr=1-1&keywords=personal+mba

I wouldn't worry about any other books on business for a while. There's a lot of crap out there.

Dropbox is the cheapest way (free) to back up your important files. http://www.dropbox.com/

Don't want to pay for Excel? Use OpenOffice (free).
http://www.openoffice.org/



Saving this for later sounds like good info, I know you were responding to the op but thanks!

msnm
01-29-2013, 6:05 PM
A little market info since you're (going to be) in Sac.

I bought 4K of .40s&w 180gr FMJ commercially reloaded ammo from Redline Ballistics (via a gun show) for $230/k two days before Sandy Hook. 9mm was under $200 per 1k. I didn't buy any then, but IIRC, .45acp was priced just under $300 per 1k... all calibers come with a cheap plastic ammo can. RLB isn't real high quality stuff and I've had a few issues with their rounds, but it's sufficient for range practice and plinking.

Ammodepot and other shops in Sac also sell Redline ammo at little to no markup as compared to the gun show, which tells me that dealers get wholesale pricing. The wholesale market is also viable if you can supply sufficient quantities.

Edit:

Well, Calguns be slow. I never saw your above posts.

i am hoping that i can lower my prices at some point, but even at dealer prices, i dont have the scratch to buy 300k worth to load at one price. surprisingly i get like 15 bucks off a thousand brass compared to what i was paying before. i own all of my equipment outright so i do not have to pay loans, as a side hobby to just pay for gas to and from the range... lol. but looking to bump it up at some point.

akoba
01-29-2013, 8:15 PM
As a starter, i'll say limit first upto max of 1K or 2K each order for every costumer. So that you can build a reputation quickly. Just to be fair on each costumer.

I'll get 1K of 556 & 45.

mshill
01-29-2013, 10:57 PM
2K each of 556 and 9

Mendo223
01-30-2013, 11:55 AM
im sure you can sell 100k a month easily.

main advice is..keep the supplies and components ROLLIN IN! i bet you can sell out as soon as they are pressed.

and like everyone else said dont take backorders...

Diskrete
01-30-2013, 12:05 PM
It'll be no problem, even easier in today's market. If you add up sales from this thread, you'd be on your way to the next group sale...

1k 9mm
1k 45
1k 5.56

Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2

Jet Setter
01-30-2013, 12:29 PM
Since you are dealing with ammo - get very good, high limit, insurance to cover you, your assets, and any potential problems if your ammo does not perform correctly. Not worth losing everything if someone shoots a bad batch.

Caseless
01-30-2013, 1:33 PM
If the OP is a one-man shop, I recommend concentrating on 9mm and .223 only for now. I recall a major ammo vendor once published a revenue pie chart according to caliber. These are just rough figures I remember.

.223 - 25% of revenue
9mm Parabellum - 15%
45 ACP - 8%
308 - 6%
40 S&W - 5%

Best luck to you and your new business.

msnm
01-30-2013, 6:40 PM
Since you are dealing with ammo - get very good, high limit, insurance to cover you, your assets, and any potential problems if your ammo does not perform correctly. Not worth losing everything if someone shoots a bad batch.

HELL YES! but, also am filed under chapter s. i was hard between S and LLC. 2 million in insurance coming.

whats weird is that the ATF has no requirement for insurance. kind of a bad day for the guy that doesnt get it anyways..

msnm
01-30-2013, 6:42 PM
If the OP is a one-man shop, I recommend concentrating on 9mm and .223 only for now. I recall a major ammo vendor once published a revenue pie chart according to caliber. These are just rough figures I remember.

.223 - 25% of revenue
9mm Parabellum - 15%
45 ACP - 8%
308 - 6%
40 S&W - 5%

Best luck to you and your new business.
in my minor amounts of sales here in Hell Paso, (minus 308) i agree. most comes from 9mm had an order for 25k 223 and i filled it. that was everything i had components wise. holy crap. i will be getting an auto camdex machine (about $50k O.o) but will be worth not pulling the handle 50k times a month.

diveRN
01-30-2013, 11:31 PM
If you're "the man" with no partners, an LLC will generally serve you better in terms of cost, ease of credit, and overall tax position.

msnm
01-31-2013, 3:12 AM
If you're "the man" with no partners, an LLC will generally serve you better in terms of cost, ease of credit, and overall tax position.

good looking out, i will have to check that out, i wasnt sure what the difference between llc and S was..i have not actually filed for it since im still in texas for a fwe months.!

GooseGun
01-31-2013, 6:19 AM
I have a source for components. Let me know when your ready to produce and I might be able to help. I live in Redding CA but often take trips to Sac for work. Good Luck!

Theoriginalgiga
01-31-2013, 7:59 AM
If you're "the man" with no partners, an LLC will generally serve you better in terms of cost, ease of credit, and overall tax position.

Not necessarily. I started a business a couple years back (I've liquidated since, long story) I started as a Class S corporation with closed and limited stock. This allowed me to bring in partners later if I so chose. Additionally an LLC, all taxes of the company are passed strait to the owner. As a Class S the first 100K (could be 200K) is passed strait through to the owners (assuming you have another person you're working with) and past that you're business is taxed like a corporation. As a class S, assuming you meet the requirements on your income, you can write off your expenses the same as an LLC but also keeps it open in the future to convert the business to a Class C corporation.

It really depends what your end goal is, if you want to attempt to expand, if you want to stay small. In the end a small scale there isn't too much of a difference between the two except it's easier to sell a Class S than it is an LLC if you get offered a buyout. I'm sure there's much more I'm forgetting but that's what I remember from the top of my head.


On another note, OP, I'm a computer engineer with a degree in information security. If you need any computer related advice or help, feel free to send me a PM.

Cnynrat
01-31-2013, 8:11 AM
I generally purchase a few thousand rounds per year of .40 and 5.56.

I'm working on an AR-308, which will be the first .308 in my collection, so I'll need that if I can ever get the last few parts. Not on your list I realize, but I'd be interested if you added that one.

diveRN
01-31-2013, 8:31 AM
Not necessarily. ...

A key word above was "generally." The idea is for the OP to do his homework because only he knows what's going to serve him better.

Theoriginalgiga
01-31-2013, 10:56 AM
A key word above was "generally." The idea is for the OP to do his homework because only he knows what's going to serve him better.

Point taken. I didn't mean any offense

diveRN
01-31-2013, 3:21 PM
Point taken. I didn't mean any offense

None taken.

msnm
01-31-2013, 4:47 PM
i have alot of homework to do. also guys, as a side note, i have 30 round ar mag "kits " at 25 ea. new. details at the link to my post! i got the zoning done here in TX finally, so i am good to go!

ShooterStymie
02-04-2013, 11:29 PM
Good luck with your new business. To start off I'd be happy to buy 2k of the 9mm from you and once I have a chance to test it out I'd look forward to buying various calibers on a regular basis.

We definitely need a good bulk supplier here in Northern California.

DJxGIO
02-07-2013, 1:30 AM
i need 1k of .40

Ericarp78
02-07-2013, 2:54 AM
1k of 9mm to start for me. I wouldn't think you'd have a problem selling 100k a week right now if your stuff is halfway descent.

msnm
02-07-2013, 8:01 AM
1k of 9mm to start for me. I wouldn't think you'd have a problem selling 100k a week right now if your stuff is halfway descent.

LOL i dont have that much time to do 100k a week. thats funny. i am having some issues with this last lot of 9mm, didnt touch a thing. found out that my powder dump got clogged, and my sensor didnt pick up on it. going to have to check into it. prob just a dead AA. good thing they didnt get out there yet, i test every lot that i load up, and they were failing to eject, shot fine, but every 4 or 5 rounds it wouldnt eject. problem now solved : )

Psyco66
02-09-2013, 12:34 PM
2k of 5.56
1k of .40
To start with. When do you think you will start in CA.

msnm
02-12-2013, 6:31 PM
got another 6 months on the realistic side psycho

Browning
02-25-2013, 11:49 AM
You didn't ask for it, but I'm going to give you some advice. I'm also 24, and have been running my own business for the last two years. I own a flight school with two airplanes, three other instructors, and a full time office manager. We're planning on adding another airplane this year, and things are going well.

All my advice is take it or leave it, and probably worth what you paid for it.

If you can stay at your location in Sacramento, definitely do that. Seems like it will keep you overhead much lower.

Sounds you already have part of a website. If you don't, and you're at all good with computers, consider a wordpress site. Here's a nice theme that's absolutely worth every penny: http://themeforest.net/item/striking-premium-corporate-portfolio-wp-theme/128763

If you don't have a web host already, I really like Dreamhost. Also make sure you're backing up your site.

I've never used wordpress as an e-commerce platform, I hear it's not great for that. Which brings me to my next point:

Don't even worry about online orders and stock. You're right, you'd be at the computer all the damn time updating stock. If I was you, I'd make a simple website with a page for each of your types of ammo and a page about you and where you make it. Your customer base loves that kind of stuff.

On every ammo page is the current estimated wait time for that ammo. Also on every page is a contact form where someone can type in what they'd like, name, phone number, email and how they'd like to be contacted. Every morning, transfer the data in the emails in to a spreadsheet. Then make ammo all day.

Once you've made someone's order, send them an email with an invoice from Google wallet. Paypal sucks, so use Google. How do you do that? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=53026

Maybe also give them a phone call (only if they're okay with that. People can be private about everything). They then have 48 hours to pay up and you'll ship it out. If they don't pay in that time, it just goes on to the next person.

With this set up, you'll never have to worry about shopping cart software. You won't have to set up a credit card merchant (which is an expensive PITA), you can just use Google. Your in person orders, online and phone orders will all integrate well. Everything just goes into that spreadsheet (which you're backing up right?). Also makes it easy if you hire anyone to help in production.

You're not going to be able to go toe to toe with some giant manufacturer. Beat them on service and simplicity.

As a personal not, I would also not bring up your age. It can really only hurt you, that's been my experience. Also, start typing better. Get some punctuation and capitalization in there.

Resources:

The Small Business Start-Up Kit for California. An amazing book for getting started with the legal ins and outs of starting a business.
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Business-Start-Up-Kit-California/dp/1413316824

The One Page Business Plan. A fun book (if it's not fun, you shouldn't be starting your own business) that will help you get everything out of your head and down on paper.
http://www.amazon.com/Page-Business-Plan-Creative-Entrepreneur/dp/1891315099

The Personal MBA: Mastering the Art of Business . This will help inspire for the soft skills of running a business. Pick it up, read three pages, integrate it in to your business. Repeat.
http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358970208&sr=1-1&keywords=personal+mba

I wouldn't worry about any other books on business for a while. There's a lot of crap out there.

Dropbox is the cheapest way (free) to back up your important files. http://www.dropbox.com/

Don't want to pay for Excel? Use OpenOffice (free).
http://www.openoffice.org/

These sort of businesses (small time ammo manufacturing, small flight schools) fail all of the time because people don't run them like a real business. Don't make that mistake, and I really think you could do well. Good luck!

This. +1,000,000.

Great business advice. Thanks for posting it, even if it might fall on deaf ears.

Please send me a PM. I'm overdue for a biennial flight review, and if you're not too far away I'd like to talk to you.

Jerry1949
02-26-2013, 1:04 PM
Count on me for 1000 of 5.56

xNuj
02-27-2013, 10:07 AM
Are you producing ammunition for sale now? Or just gauging the market? I'll take 1k 9mm whenever you get up an running.

rqc
02-27-2013, 11:28 AM
Please include me 1k of 5.56 and 1k of .40...Thank you.

WeiseGuy
02-27-2013, 12:00 PM
Tagged for future buying. I'll do a 1k .40 S&W soon....but want to see some reviews on the thread.

aliphian
02-27-2013, 12:09 PM
In for 1k 9mm as soon as you are up and running.

kcjr1125
02-27-2013, 12:35 PM
in for 2k of 556 when this happens. cant wait and good luck

Tumbleweed.13
02-27-2013, 4:21 PM
Count me in for 1k 9mm and 1k of 556

Simple Man
03-01-2013, 7:01 PM
Thank you for your service!
When you are set up, let us know.
I will take:
2k of .40 and 1k of .223

Good Luck.

warthog1984
03-01-2013, 7:42 PM
Since you're 6 months away, I won't commit to anything.

However, once you're selling & there's been a reliable review I'll probably take 1K 9mm.

Dianne
03-02-2013, 9:41 AM
We are an established licensed commercial ammo manufacturer here in the Sacramento area primarily selling through a dozen or so gun stores located in California, Nevada, and New Mexico. You wanted good advice, so here goes...

It sounds like you have the insurance issue handled. You will also need licensing from the county and state (and perhaps city) as well as federal. Your place of business will have to be sprinklered and inspected by the fire marshall. You will also need to build or buy an approved powder cabinet, and lockers for your primers.

You will also need to worry about paying the 11% federal excise tax (off your gross) for all rounds that you produce and sell. You will need to figure that into your pricing. This needs to be paid quarterly.

You will also have to worry about component supply lines. Powder alone has an eight to 12 month lead time right now, and most, if not all, of the ranges here already have contracts with others for their brass.

Speaking of brass, you will also need to buy case processing equipment or locate someone willing to process your raw brass for you. You should also figure in the cost of this into your pricing.

Also, there is a ban on the shipment of ammunition via common carrier to people living within the city limits of Sacramento, so you will either need to arrange for pickup by the customer or deliver it yourself to the customer.

My last piece of advice, since you are probably going to remain small for awhile, is look into odd-ball calibers. Small market, yes, but you can find a lot of profit in it because the majors generally aren't competing with you in it.

Good luck to you!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

rdavenport
03-02-2013, 7:30 PM
I'll take 1,000 of the 556

Kstyles
03-03-2013, 5:27 AM
Looking forward to buying ammo in bulk from you in Sac once you're up and running. Between myself and 8 other buddies, I can image buying serveral K's of ammo for various Calibers regularly.

Intimid8tor
03-03-2013, 6:14 AM
It's hard to make a living reloading bulk common cartridges. This is a good time to be in the business IF you have an excellent supply line already established. But, that doesn't happen with start up companies. More than a few here have tried, established a decent customer base and then failed. Freakshow and Jack Ross are two examples. Good luck in your venture. But, realistically, be prepared to fail unless, you find a niche market to tap.

The components will be a killer.

AND DO NOT EVER SELL ANYTHING BEFORE YOU HAVE IT READY TO SHIP! I put that in caps because once that happens, you will be doomed to fail as your supplier will not deliver on time and it just snowballs. You can let people know when you expect to have something back in stock, but don't fall to the pressure of getting it sold before you make it.

Dianne
03-03-2013, 7:06 AM
On every ammo page is the current estimated wait time for that ammo. Also on every page is a contact form where someone can type in what they'd like, name, phone number, email and how they'd like to be contacted. Every morning, transfer the data in the emails in to a spreadsheet. Then make ammo all day.

Once you've made someone's order, send them an email with an invoice from Google wallet. Paypal sucks, so use Google. How do you do that? https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=53026


One problem with this: Google Wallet has a specific ban on the selling of firearms and ammunition. From their list of banned items you CANNOT sell using their payment system: "Weapons: Firearms, ammunition, and other items including but not limited to firearms, disguised, undetectable or switchblade knives, martial arts weapons, silencers, ammunition, ammunition magazines, BB guns, and tear gas" https://support.google.com/checkout/sell/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=75724

r00t
03-03-2013, 4:39 PM
As with the others I would also help fund your business with those prices. Looking for 5.56/.223, .40, .45, and .308. Feel free to PM me when you get setup.

rromeo
03-04-2013, 12:02 PM
As a starter, i'll say limit first upto max of 1K or 2K each order for every costumer. So that you can build a reputation quickly. Just to be fair on each costumer.

I'll get 1K of 556 & 45.

Okay, to be fair to others, I will limit my initial order to 1K per caliber.

Seriously, when you're running I will buy from you.

Psyco66
03-04-2013, 12:09 PM
I am ready to buy keep us updated.

pengie24
03-06-2013, 8:06 PM
First off, thank you for your service! I know you won't have any problems meeting your monthly goals when your shop is set up and ready to roll. With that said, put me down for 2k of the 556/223 and 1k of the 40 cal. Can't wait till your up n running and rest assured you already have guaranteed buyers here in the Sacto area.

propman07
03-06-2013, 8:25 PM
any chance that you will be able to ship? I'm in So Cal, but would be interested in

1k 556
1k 9mm
1k 40
1k 45

Thank you for your service!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

SISIG
03-07-2013, 8:31 PM
I will take 1k 9..

Thank you and good luck!

Rigma
03-08-2013, 10:22 PM
I will hold off on throwing an order at you until you are ready, but look forward to supporting a veteran start-up business that is looking to stake a claim in Kalifornia.

If you need a little free manual labor in the Sacto area, I could give a little. I could also offer some help with with Corp or LLC filings in California (with nothing expected in return).

You seem to have plenty of potential customers (me included), so I would like to start a CALGUNS trend of pledging support in terms of effort!

So as I said, need some boxes moved around?..PM me. Need assistance with foreign or domestic LLC or Corp filings?...PM me. That is how I can help. Strictly a volunteer offer.

Best way to get my order filled is to help you be better able to fill it. You are living my dream, starting a business.

This is a sincere offer, hope you get more.

Kurus214
03-08-2013, 10:53 PM
Good luck, once you are up and runnig I'll throw in my order for 3k of 9mm

mattsn0w
03-15-2013, 6:46 AM
add me to your 9mm wish list.

SCruzsurfer
03-15-2013, 7:43 AM
When you're ready, I'll be interested in a minimum of 1000 rds each of: 9mm, .40SW and .223

av8rrob
03-15-2013, 2:37 PM
throw me in for .223 and maybe 40

tyrox911
03-25-2013, 11:55 PM
1K-9mm maybe more
1K-556

Please let me know when you available.

Billy

Plynhrd
05-03-2013, 6:28 PM
Ill take 1k of ea when you r up and running let me know.pm me when you are ready.

Pablo5959
05-03-2013, 6:54 PM
Count me in for a few k rounds of 9. Also live on the east boarder of Contra Costa County if you need a currier to the bay I can help. When your ready I can check local ranges for there brass.

Lockwood2988
05-06-2013, 9:12 PM
when you are up and running I would be willing to buy 5.56 from you....

SOAR79
05-06-2013, 9:51 PM
2k of 223 when you're ready

SOAR79
05-06-2013, 9:52 PM
and a lot more when I get the word out to my friends

NorCalDustin
05-07-2013, 12:05 AM
My last piece of advice, since you are probably going to remain small for awhile, is look into odd-ball calibers. Small market, yes, but you can find a lot of profit in it because the majors generally aren't competing with you in it.
I.E., .300 Wby Mag which I (and many others in my area) tend to pay $80-100 per box in our local gun stores.

elusive916
05-08-2013, 7:32 PM
Best of luck!

Tagged!

msnm
05-09-2013, 6:24 AM
HELLO EVERYBODY! its been so long! im sorry that i havent been in town yet! i ended up doing an extra rotation i didnt expect. i wont be home for ALMOST ANOTHER YEAR! sheesh. back to the sandbox for me. im so sorry guys. i will be hhome and selling cheaply soon. !!!!!!!!!!1

zenabi90
05-14-2013, 11:13 AM
Tagged, willing to wait :D

junior40er
05-14-2013, 11:35 AM
i am a new manufacturer and havent really done alot of market research. im in the Army, transitioning out back into the real world. i am 25 this coming june, so i am just really interested in how much ammo people buy. i just bought a Camndex machine and am awaiting assembly and delivery. this may be a good time to figure out how much time it will take to get me out of the hole. i will just auto load 556 and hand load pistol calibers for now... good old dillion press. i want to sell 100k rounds a month, i plan to actually get this damn website up and running, and hopefully get on ammo seek as well. i jumped in with both feet and am not nervous at all, just a little scared out of my mind lol.

rough layout of prices once im in full swing...all per 1k

556 -350
9mm -225
.40sw- -300
45 - -320

all jacketed of course, most likely all hollows, i just like to load hollows lol.

any feedback is great please let me know.. with online and local sales aka calguns, craigslist ect... do you think i will make 100k goal each month? ASSUMING i can keep up with the orders that is... maybe 50k? just wondering who buys what. i will prob just end up throwing it out there on the market and seeing whats what. i am out of operation as i am in El Paso Tx and moving back to Sacramento, all my equip is in route home and i have to get re zoned back in cali, it will be a while. thanks again guys

nsnm

If you do this and stick to these prices I would ask for:
2K of the 9mm
2K of the 5.56

if you end up doing 357 or 38 special I would be interested in those too.

junior40er
05-14-2013, 11:39 AM
btw, subscribed.